TV Series: Lost

NightCrawler

Aeons gone, vast, mad and deathless
Re: Lost Season 4

Griffith No More! said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppZqj65lf64

Mr. Eko was the shit! One of the best characters. He is definitely missed.

Aazealh said:
He's a super annoying, incompetent and stupid guy.

True. Who cares about Michael? I would love to see Sayid bash his face in, unlikely though...
 
Re: Lost Season 4

[quote author=Griffith No More!]
Well, that's one way to compare two unlike characters and situations. Anyway, I don't think that's a fair or even genuine analysis of the scene on your part, more an obvious and strained defense of Michael.[/quote]

The point is Sayid has a history of betrayal. Even if the situations are different the scene is paralleled in many ways with Sayid even shooting himself to appear injured. Michael's betrayal might be worse but Sayid was no innocent either. Of course by this time Sayid has redeemed himself in our eyes, but Michael still has some way to go. Aaz seems to think that having Michael be a "nice guy" at this point would contradict the character or something but Michael was always trying to be nice. Even after he got the boat he asked Ben what they would do to his "friends" and showing concern for them. Unlike Goodwin he was never sinister or cold about it. I also disagree with what Aaz said about him being crazy, he was nervous and in a state of despair.

[quote author=Griffith No More!]
Now you're just trolling. =) [/quote]

What is trolling?

[quote author=Griffith No More!]
Michael is a good character, but you do him a disservice trying to butter him up for us. What makes him interesting are both the good and the bad of him. You act like he's a nice guy or misunderstood just because he had good intentions, or more like good pretensions in this case, but that doesn't make up for what he's actually done.[/quote]

Point taken. I agree he went too far and shouldn't be forgiven by Jack, Kate, Sawyer and Hurley easily. But Sayid has no right to punch his face in. Apart from once betraying people himself, Sayid knew Michael had been compromised before Michael ran off with Walt but instead of calling him on it he made up an ambitious plan to get Walt back with Jack that failed. He and Jack screwed up.

[quote author=Griffith No More!]
You talk about his intentions and self-made misfortune like they make up for his reprehensibly selfish decisions and actions, which he uses his own son to justify to himself.[/quote]

I didn't mean to come off sounding like that, I just mean that what he did is understandable even if it was wrong and I acknowledge the character's defaults. Yet I just can't hate him like some of you do. It's not like he's the only character that's done alot of awful shit.

[quote author=Aazealh]
I don't dream of sucking the Lost producers' cocks, I guess that's what's wrong with me. The scene wasn't bad, but it did nothing special other than showing off Michael when we'd been told over and over that he'd be back. If it had been kept under the lid it could have been pretty cool because of the surprise, but after months of "MICHAEL'S BACK!!" it was underwhelming. And I expected it to be underwhelming, don't be mistaken, but it was just not very original or anything. It's not awesome in the least.[/quote]

You said it was a "totally worthless scene". I didn't think it was worthless, and the only reason the producers announced that Michael would be back was because they knew they couldn't keep it under the lid. A series regular requires credit in the opening of every episode. When a new generation will watch Lost in the future and go through all the Seasons on DVDs it will be more surprising.

[quote author=Aazealh]
He's a super annoying, incompetent and stupid guy.[/quote]

That doesn't mean much coming from you though, since you think every single character on the show is incompetent and stupid.

[quote author=NightCrawler]
Who cares about Michael?[/quote]

People watching and enjoying the show =(
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Re: Lost Season 4

A.C said:
The point is Sayid has a history of betrayal.

Well, his infiltrating a terrorist cell isn't exactly a betrayel since he wasn't a member to begin with, and even if he used and betrayed the trust of his friend to do it, he didn't murder him when the going got tough, and in fact put himself in position to be killed admitting the truth and giving his friend a chance to escape or kill him. We'll get to his situation in the military in a minute.

A.C said:
Even if the situations are different the scene is paralleled in many ways with Sayid even shooting himself to appear injured. Michael's betrayal might be worse but Sayid was no innocent either.

Okay, that's ONE way they parallel, which is just a common cliche, and as you admit, your comparing totally different situations. Sayid was trying to save someone from institutional execution, life and death situation, and he couldn't exactly explain to the CO that he loved her so please let her go. If I remember correctly, Jack was already trying to trade Ben for Walt, but Michael never broached the subject, he was never honest with them, he never told them about the computer messages, he didn't include anybody in his foolishly futile and egocentric attempts to save Walt on his own. He started blaming people almost as soon as Walt was taken actually. If he'd explained the situation to Jack, there's little doubt they would have helped him and gone along with a plan to make a trade if he'd explained it that way (he could have just tricked them all into going with Ben in tow), or he could have given full disclosure and they could come up with a good plan to get the upper hand on the situation. This was also when Michael thought they were really just a bunch of natives without resources. As far as Michael knew, they really could have taken the whole camp by force with the weapons they had. I mean, he had the leverage, and he knew that Walt was okay and in no immediate danger (if he believed that they'd give him back unharmed, then he had to believe this first). It clearly wasn't a matter of life and death, or so desperate as he acted, that's the point, he was just acting desperate, as he always seems to. Hell, Michael would have seen they were clearly fond of Walt, he wasn't in danger, and that he clearly had the leverage with Ben if he hadn't been acting so irrational and selfish. Speaking of which, since you decided to compare the two, how do you think Sayid would have handled that situation if the roles had been reversed? I don't think he would have been having fits and crying in the others' camp, freaking out and ignoring the reality of the situation, and I don't think he would have trusted the people he thought were such a danger to him and his son over his friends who could have actually helped him. Just look at how Sayid handled the situation in getting Charlotte last week. What do you know, instead of waiting for his chance to murder Locke and Hurley, he came up with an intelligent, diplomatic solution where he leveled with people, exchanged information, made his intentions clear, and satisfied both parties using the leverage he had. Hell, Michael didn't even make a smart choice for Walt's well-being, he put it all in the hands of their captors, what if the others had chosen to not give Walt back? He basically had to rely on their good graces. He foolishly put all their fates in their hands, and if the others had wanted, they could have taken back Walt anyway and then those that could have lead a rescue for him would have then been in their possession as well. And that's the point, I don't care who acts "nicer" or whatever bullshit, I don't like Sayid's character because I think he's some nice guy, but I do appreciate him because he's intelligent, capable, and for the most part reliable, but with plenty of human weakness thrown in, whereas Michael was stupid, selfish, irrational, egocentric, untrusting, untrustworthy, a phony, a loser, a liar, a murderer, oh, and apparently a real "nice" guy.

A.C said:
Of course by this time Sayid has redeemed himself in our eyes, but Michael still has some way to go. Aaz seems to think that having Michael be a "nice guy" at this point would contradict the character or something but Michael was always trying to be nice. Even after he got the boat he asked Ben what they would do to his "friends" and showing concern for them. Unlike Goodwin he was never sinister or cold about it. I also disagree with what Aaz said about him being crazy, he was nervous and in a state of despair.

Crazy is about his only defense, and he was acting crazy, you can justify it however you want given his circumstances, but he was. Anyway, all this analysis painting the best picture of Michael possible and uselessly comparing him to Sayid, I guess because you think we love him and hate Michael, is rather specious and superficial. You don't seem to see that these superficialities and a guilty conscience don't make Michael nice, they make him ironically worse. There's a big difference between wanting to be nice, acting nice, and actually being a nice person. I mean, saying Michael is a nice guy for his too little, too late lip service concern is an especially pitiable outlook. If Ben had said, "I'm going to kill them all," what was Michael going to do about it at that point? What COULD he even do for them? Feel worse? A little late for that.

A.C said:
What is trolling?

Well, even that question qualifies. =)

But in this case, it's making ridiculous fanboyish statements of Star Warsian proportions, i.e., "George Lucas originally wrote 21 Star Wars movies and had them all planned from birth, IT'S TRUE HE'S SUCH A GENIUS AND EVERYTHING HE DOES IS GOOD!"

A.C said:
Point taken. I agree he went too far and shouldn't be forgiven by Jack, Kate, Sawyer and Hurley easily. But Sayid has no right to punch his face in. Apart from once betraying people himself, Sayid knew Michael had been compromised before Michael ran off with Walt but instead of calling him on it he made up an ambitious plan to get Walt back with Jack that failed. He and Jack screwed up.

That's true, but irrelevant, and as I've already shown, your comparison of the two is largely invalid. Also, who cares what Michael and Sayid have the "right" to do to each other? Saying Sayid has no right to hurt someone who betrayed and murdered his allies because he's done wrong in his life too is ridiculous, especially after wasting so much of our time similarly trying justify Michael's actions. You're starting to act like Michael. =)

A.C said:
I didn't mean to come off sounding like that, I just mean that what he did is understandable even if it was wrong and I acknowledge the character's defaults. Yet I just can't hate him like some of you do. It's not like he's the only character that's done alot of awful shit.

Are you talking to me? I already told you I like Michael's character, but objectively speaking, he's been a rather indefensible human being to this point. Say what you want about the other characters, they're no moral compasses themselves, but most of them have their own code of honor they follow or limits, while Michael's been a mess. I wouldn't mind seeing him redeem himself though. I think the problem here is that you're the one personally identifying with these characters so much you can't be objective, so you take our comments about them personally and make these misguided attempts to defend or justify their actions.
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Re: Lost Season 4

A.C said:
Michael was always trying to be nice.

No.

A.C said:
You said it was a "totally worthless scene". I didn't think it was worthless, and the only reason the producers announced that Michael would be back was because they knew they couldn't keep it under the lid. A series regular requires credit in the opening of every episode. When a new generation will watch Lost in the future and go through all the Seasons on DVDs it will be more surprising.

Where there's a will, there's a way. His one-minute appearance could have been concealed, or the scene could have been more elaborate. As it stands it was merely "HEY LOOK WHO'S HERE".

A.C said:
That doesn't mean much coming from you though, since you think every single character on the show is incompetent and stupid.

That's a straw man fallacy right here, though I don't expect you to know what it means. Most of the main characters DO indeed act stupidly whenever it suits the writers anyway, and act like smart people when it's convenient as well (Jack and Kate probably being the worst in that regard). Same for being uncertain or daring. My problem with it is the inconsistency it creates. In Michael's case however, his extreme selfishness, pettiness and incompetence were quite constant. As far as stupidity goes, I'd say he ranks above the others too, but I think that's more supposed to be part of his character. And the annoyance, well in my memories it built up steadily until it was overwhelming.

In any case, it sure does mean enough coming from me, since I'm a lot more objective and rational than you about this show. Rather, your arguments, remarks and opinions are all distorted by your unrestrained love and admiration, so that your total support of Michael, Goodwin and any other character, situation or anything else never really means anything. Because whatever happens, you're going to love it. If the producers say it'll be awesome in a podcast, then you will find it awesome. Whatever they do, you'll agree. It's fine by me, but don't delude yourself into thinking otherwise.

At the end of the day, I still watch the show, so it's not like I hate it, but there's a reason less and less people do.
 
Re: Lost Season 4

I don't want to drag this on, but I liked the scene where Michael shows up. I don't know what you were expecting but the big question was never really when or where he'd return. Most people guessed he was on the freighter even before Ben said he had a spy. The real question is "how" and "why" and I'm really looking forward to finding out more.

[quote author=Griffith No More!]
Sayid was trying to save someone from institutional execution[/quote]

Ben was very much in danger of execution, when Ana said she "couldn't do it" Michael might have thought that they all really intended to kill the man. That's a second parallel right there.

It's true that Michael could have come clean and made up a plan to exchange Walt with Ben, but the man gave his word to the Others and he might have been afraid to piss them off.

[quote author=Griffith No More!]
As far as Michael knew, they really could have taken the whole camp by force with the weapons they had. I mean, he had the leverage, and he knew that Walt was okay and in no immediate danger[/quote]

I think Michael suspected that there was more to the Others. Walt told him that they weren't who they seemed and whenever Kate brought up the fake beard Michael might have only stressed the "seabillies" impression because he was set on betraying them. Had Michael decided to stick with Jack and Sayid he would know the Others would be more complicated than that.

[quote author=Griffith No More!]
Speaking of which, since you decided to compare the two, how do you think Sayid would have handled that situation if the roles had been reversed? I don't think he would have been having fits and crying in the others' camp, freaking out and ignoring the reality of the situation, and I don't think he would have trusted the people he thought were such a danger to him and his son over his friends who could have actually helped him.[/quote]

Did you see how crazy Sayid was when Ana shot Shannon? If Sayid had a son who was kidnapped I fear what he'd do to get him back.

[quote author=Griffith No More!]
Just look at how Sayid handled the situation in getting Charlotte last week. What do you know, instead of waiting for his chance to murder Locke and Hurley, he came up with an intelligent, diplomatic solution where he leveled with people, exchanged information, made his intentions clear, and satisfied both parties using the leverage he had.[/quote]

Satisfied both parties, how? He simply swapped one of his allies for another. If Frank had made the deal to capture/kill Locke for a ride back to the freighter what do you think Sayid would have done? The Sayid/Frank deal comparison with the Michael/Others deal you make is even more different than the Michael/Ben and Sayid/Nadia comparison I made.

[quote author=Griffith No More!]
Crazy is about his only defense, and he was acting crazy, you can justify it however you want given his circumstances, but he was.[/quote]

Yes, okay, he was. But wouldn't that kind of situation make almost anyone crazy? It's not like Michael knew the other 815'ers for more than two months. Would you trust people you only have known for two months to help you bust your son out of strangers who might very well make a deal? It's not like Michael had all the info in the 815'ers like we do. He was pretty much only friends with Sun, Sawyer and Jin.

[quote author=Griffith No More!]
I guess because you think we love him and hate Michael, is rather specious and superficial. You don't seem to see that these superficialities and a guilty conscience don't make Michael nice, they make him ironically worse.[/quote]

That's okay. I'm just saying what I think, it's all in fun debate.

[quote author=Griffith No More!]
it's making ridiculous fanboyish statements of Star Warsian proportions, i.e., "George Lucas originally wrote 21 Star Wars movies and had them all planned from birth, IT'S TRUE HE'S SUCH A GENIUS AND EVERYTHING HE DOES IS GOOD!"[/quote]

That's trolling? I thought maybe trolling was something else which is why I asked.

So what do you call it when a person is making sarcastic pessimistic statements about a show simply because they love complaining and/or annoy those fans who happen to like the show? =)

[quote author=Griffith No More!]
Are you talking to me? I already told you I like Michael's character[/quote]

I know you like the character. I was talking about others. Maybe I'm mistaken though, and nobody is really hating Michael and instead everyone else is simply objectively acknowledging his flaws.

[quote author=Aazealh]
His one-minute appearance could have been concealed, or the scene could have been more elaborate.[/quote]

Why should he have been concealed any longer? Or why more elaborate. The elaborating is coming up tonight.

[quote author=Aazealh]
As it stands it was merely "HEY LOOK WHO'S HERE".
[/quote]

As it stands it was nicely "INDEED MICHAEL IS ON THE BOAT", now start asking yourselves how and why...

[quote author=Aazealh]
I'm a lot more objective and rational than you about this show.
[/quote]

Maybe, but you're also very pessimistic. I'm merely offering another way to see things to counter your cynical view.

[quote author=Aazealh]
Because whatever happens, you're going to love it.[/quote]

No.

Did I not already express my annoyance with some things on the show?
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Re: Lost Season 4

A.C said:
I don't want to drag this on, but I liked the scene where Michael shows up. I don't know what you were expecting but the big question was never really when or where he'd return. Most people guessed he was on the freighter even before Ben said he had a spy. The real question is "how" and "why" and I'm really looking forward to finding out more.

So basically that footage itself meant nothing, like I said. Glad you're acknowledging it at last.

A.C said:
Why should he have been concealed any longer?

You didn't understand what I said. I meant his involvement in the show could have been concealed to keep it a surprise if they had really wanted it enough. Or they could have made his return more elaborate, meaning by not having him appear 30 seconds before the end of the episode when everybody had deduced he had to appear at that point.

A.C said:
Maybe, but you're also very pessimistic. I'm merely offering another way to see things to counter your cynical view.

I'm not that pessimistic actually. I just don't talk as much about the things I like than about those I dislike (or that bothered me even though I still enjoyed them), and coincidentally, what makes the show for me is most likely not what makes it for you. I'm also quite picky, I admit.

A.C said:
No.

Did I not already express my annoyance with some things on the show?

Oh come on, you had very mild complaints that were basically only waiting for you to change your mind on the third viewing or when receiving the DVDs or whatever else. At worst you found some stuff "alright, still better than most shows" instead of the usual "ultimate awesomeness never to be equalled in the history of mankind". And you also tend to defend characters that aren't supposed to be flawless as if that simple fact was an insult to the show itself.

Anyway, let's not turn this into a personal argument. We can all express our views and respect those of others, even if we sometimes challenge them. Now that Michael has shown up I'm expecting interesting things to happen. A flashback of what he went through is in order.
 
Re: Lost Season 4

Aazealh said:
So basically that footage itself meant nothing, like I said. Glad you're acknowledging it at last.

Does every scene have to mean something though? Can't the scene itself simply be kinda cool aestetically with Michael coming out of the shadowy hallway and can't we enjoy the fact that Sayid is totally surprised?
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Re: Lost Season 4

A.C said:
Ben was very much in danger of execution, when Ana said she "couldn't do it" Michael might have thought that they all really intended to kill the man. That's a second parallel right there.

You're just twisting my choice of words without giving full attention to the substance of the situations, as well as changing the operating constants of who was trying to save who and why. For instance, saying Ben was in danger of "execution" doesn't make the situations anymore the same. You're comparing a state sponsored military execution, with a time and date, to the possibility someone might have eventually have killed Ben. Unlike Sayid, Michael had many options to prevent that, and to reason with the group and protect Ben, including telling the truth, or whatever story he wanted. There was no urgency to kill, it wasn't a life or death situation for Ben or Walt, and as you even point out, he just found out Anna couldn't do it. I shouldn't have even humored you with the Sayid stuff, cause now it's just made a mess where we have these two parallel arguments mixing everything up.

A.C said:
It's true that Michael could have come clean and made up a plan to exchange Walt with Ben, but the man gave his word to the Others and he might have been afraid to piss them off.

See, you don't actually justify his actions, or even talk about them, you just make excuses for how you think he felt. Which could justify his not telling them, but not killing people in the process, how was murder a better first option, how was it more justified than telling the truth or a deception? You're very consistent about "who has the right to do what" for others, but I haven't yet heard why Michael's murders were justified. How about some more substance concerning the crux of the argument, I hope you realize that you need to justify the killings to be successful here? A lot of your arguments defending Michael contradict your points about the bad actions of the other characters.

A.C said:
I think Michael suspected that there was more to the Others. Walt told him that they weren't who they seemed and whenever Kate brought up the fake beard Michael might have only stressed the "seabillies" impression because he was set on betraying them. Had Michael decided to stick with Jack and Sayid he would know the Others would be more complicated than that.

That was barely coherent. Anyway, what does that have to do with my argument he could have tricked them without anyone getting hurt? Also, I don't think you're giving complete thought to all the ways full disclosure would have totally changed the dynamic of the situation.

A.C said:
Did you see how crazy Sayid was when Ana shot Shannon? If Sayid had a son who was kidnapped I fear what he'd do to get him back.

Once again, you're comparing apples and oranges. That was a kneejerk reaction, in the heat of the moment, after watching someone you love die. The same does not apply to Michael's situation, and as a matter of fact, in less time than Michael had to think about his problem, Sayid came to his senses and to a very reasonable and noble conclusion. It's actually pretty damn impressive when you think about how fast he made peace with his girlfriend's killer because it was an accident, you know, instead of selfishly murdering an innocent person *cough cough*. If anything, this example actually makes Michael look worse by comparison.

A.C said:
Satisfied both parties, how? He simply swapped one of his allies for another.

Yeah, exactly. =)

He was asked to get Charlotte by Frank, Locke didn't want to lose his prisoner, so he made a trade that satisfied both parties. Don't be intentionally obtuse.

A.C said:
If Frank had made the deal to capture/kill Locke for a ride back to the freighter what do you think Sayid would have done? The Sayid/Frank deal comparison with the Michael/Others deal you make is even more different than the Michael/Ben and Sayid/Nadia comparison I made.

Okay, now you're changing the nature of my example in order to refute it, which doesn't really work. Also, you're missing the point of the comparison to begin with, it's like you don't see the difference between direct situational comparisons and simile.

A.C said:
Yes, okay, he was. But wouldn't that kind of situation make almost anyone crazy?

Yes, thank you, acknowledge the basic facts of these situations and we can talk, it's really all you have to do. And yes, his going a little crazy is understandable, and a much better argument for him *hint hint* than this other bogus stuff. We actually get somewhere when the BSing stops.

A.C said:
It's not like Michael knew the other 815'ers for more than two months. Would you trust people you only have known for two months to help you bust your son out of strangers who might very well make a deal? It's not like Michael had all the info in the 815'ers like we do. He was pretty much only friends with Sun, Sawyer and Jin.

Again, then it makes even less good sense that he'd trust the Others and lose his only leverage, something which you never really addressed among my points.

A.C said:
That's okay. I'm just saying what I think, it's all in fun debate.

See, this is your problem though, it's not what you think, it's what you can prove. That's why "debating" with you isn't fun, it's frustrating because you're not playing by the same rules, and also mixing up incidental contextual parallels with more theoretical analytical ones all over the place, both mine and yours.

A.C said:
That's trolling? I thought maybe trolling was something else which is why I asked.

So what do you call it when a person is making sarcastic pessimistic statements about a show simply because they love complaining and/or annoy those fans who happen to like the show? =)

Oh, that's trolling too, but in most cases it's also more critically objective than sycophantic praise. =)

A.C said:
I know you like the character. I was talking about others. Maybe I'm mistaken though, and nobody is really hating Michael and instead everyone else is simply objectively acknowledging his flaws.

I don't know why you're defending him, in any case. Most of these arguments pointing out the bad actions of other characters to defend him are inconsistent because when you say things like Sayid has no right to hurt Michael for what he's done, it begs the question of what right Michael had to do what he did? You can't very well defend Michael's actions but not the reactions of others to them. It's hard to make those arguments when the person you're defending that way has arguably done the worst thing.
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Re: Lost Season 4

You guys are still arguing about Lost? This is exactly what Ben would have wanted.

lost216henry.jpg

This discussion gets one eyebrow raising Ben Linus.​

Previously on LOST:
lostgif2.gif
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Re: Lost Season 4

Walter said:
You guys are still arguing about Lost? This is exactly what Ben would have wanted.

http://www.skullknight.net/griffith/lost216henry.jpg
This discussion gets one eyebrow raising Ben Linus.

post.jpg


Or shaddap. :carcus:

From my point of view, it basically morphed into an argument about argumentation. Anyway, I can't speak for A.C, but I don't regret it, as it was a nice review and buildup for this episode, which was basically the perfect conclusion to the discussion as well (basically confirming everything I said about Michael, coincidentally =). Though maybe not... we need something to talk about for the next month, other than the season in review thus far.

Rhombaad said:
Awesome. :ganishka:

So not one, but two characters dead! :isidro:

Well, I doubt loverboy made it, but perhaps we haven't seen the last of mumsybabe. I knew he was toast during girly's whole, "Dad wouldn't want me hurt" BS, and then Rousseau when she was saying "I love you" and they started counting to run... Because you can't just run, you've got to count it off! How about, "Run when I say run" or "Let's run!." She didn't even keep a consistent count. =)

Anyway, kind of a lame final scene, despite the inherent drama involved it felt more like the Scary Movie version of Lost. My first thoughts were Ben's people, possibly even Ben, and then the preview threw out the idea of some freighter death squad, but unless we don't know something they're still stuck on the boat and that shit probably won't even be happening until a while after it comes back. Unless they just kick it into high gear, they could technically retcon all the boring filler I'm sure they had in mind and play it like the Captain ordered in the army after finding out Michael was a spy... but I have a feeling it won't be that easy. I'm half expecting him to tell Sayid, "I know" in response to tattling on Michael. Speaking of which, bitch move and questionable judgment on Sayid's part turning Michael right on in before getting more information, though if I was Michael, I would have given a better explanation than, "I work for Ben." Something about trying to save everybody and redeeming himself and here's what you need to know would have been a better explanation. Anyway, that's what I'm most looking forward to seeing immediately when it resumes. If the Captain isn't already privy, Sayid will probably end up having a change of heart and will be forced to rescue him or something... maybe he'll shoot innocent people needlessly in the process and those parallels will come to fruition.

I found the rest of the Michael stuff interesting, I've always wanted to see him back in New York trying to make a go of it with his gulity conscience, it's been an expectation of mine and I was happy to see it happen, but it wasn't exactly all it could be. I would have liked to see him trying to adjust more rather than jumping to his ultimate failure. I know that may sound like asking for the type of filler I complain about, but it's more a cry for the organic stand alone stories we used to get per episode. This was sort of just filling in the blanks on Michael by the numbers.

A lot of people I talked to just plain hated this episode though or found it boring, called it filler even, though I think that has to do with them not being as interested about Michael as I am, or just plain not being sorry he was gone, which is understandable I guess. BTW... Tom, big mainland homo? =)

Anyway, it wasn't exactly "the shit", but not shit either, so this one gets the full gamut:

losttouchdown.gif
lostthisfuckinshow.gif
lostsayid.gif
 

NightCrawler

Aeons gone, vast, mad and deathless
Re: Lost Season 4

So was this supposed to be the BIG OMG episode people were talking about?
It almost single-handedly made me want to quit this show for good! What a piece of crap episode it was! Sayid saved it as always, he steals every scene he's in.

And now we know why Mr. Friendly throws like a girl.
 

Loc_n_lol

Amazed Mule is amazed...
Re: Lost Season 4

So this is what Tom meant when he said to Kate she's not his type :guts:

Well, I guess this episode was overall ok...
I was expecting Michael to be more annoying than this, this episode made me like the character a little bit more. So he's not totally a selfish helpless bastard ?... I still wouldn't mind if he died, but at least he'd go with a better last impression than last time...
Pretty stupid move from Sayid, he does not act without thinking things out usually. I'm still not sure what he was trying to achieve there...
And that final scene was kinda disappointing, too.

Ok, so next week we have a full out war going on, with automatic weapons, more killing, explosions and stuff. Time for John Rambo Locke to shine again ? :serpico:
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Re: Lost Season 4

Well, if you tune in next week, I can guarantee you'll be disappointed. =)

And I agree with the move by
Sayid
. Also, get some spoiler tags on this shit you guys.
 
Re: Lost Season 4

[quote author=Griffith No More!]
From my point of view, it basically morphed into an argument about argumentation.[/quote]

It kinda did, but nevermind that now. This episode was the start of something epic.
Holy Shit, the war is coming! Looks like we're about to find out just how bad these freighter guys are. I'm kinda sad that Karl bit it (I think Danielle is still alive, they've promised us her flashback) even though Karl didn't do anything this season. He looked like a dork in those clothes too so he didn't go out on his best day. Where the hell is the Monster/Security System when they need it. Damn, it's about time Locke goes John Rambo for real. I'm one step closer to forgiving him for Naomi.
locke.jpg

(Had to borrow this one Griffith =)

Seriously, had the strike still been going on I would've been pissed. Thank god they're making the rest of the season even if it is abridged.

[quote author=Griffith No More!]
Anyway, kind of a lame final scene, despite the inherent drama involved it felt more like the Scary Movie version of Lost.
[/quote]

Lame? I was pretty shocked by it.

[quote author=Griffith No More!]
My first thoughts were Ben's people, possibly even Ben, and then the preview threw out the idea of some freighter death squad, but unless we don't know something they're still stuck on the boat and that shit probably won't even be happening until a while after it comes back.
[/quote]

I'm pretty sure Ben wouldn't go that far. I think we just found out what Frank's "mission" from last episode was. He flew in the first group of freighters to attack the island.

[quote author=Griffith No More!]
bitch move and questionable judgment on Sayid's part turning Michael right on in before getting more information, though if I was Michael, I would have given a better explanation than, "I work for Ben."
[/quote]

Yeah, but I'm kinda glad he got right down to it that way everyone will be forced to make a decision much faster without slowing down the story. Sayid and Des are in just as bad a spot as Michael if they really intend to kill all 815'ers (and it looks like they intend just that.) It'll be interesting to see what Frank, Charlotte and Dan's decision will be. Looks like Miles has already switched loyalty to Locke's group for now.

The Michael stuff was all that I wanted it to be. I always suspected he got back home. It would've been nice to see how it looked when he finally "found rescue" after leaving the island but I always suspected they would leave that out because of Walt's actors aging. At least now we know the Walt on the island is the Monster.

As for the season as a whole, I'm surprised it took us this long to get us here actually, this episode is what I wanted episode 3 or 4 to be. At least Episode 1-3, 5 and this one was very satisfying. Ep 4 and 6 I can forgive but last weeks sure was boring and reminded me of the early season 3 pace. I never actually bothered to rewatch it before this episode which is rare.
 

Rhombaad

Video Game Time Traveler
Re: Lost Season 4

A.C said:
Lame? I was pretty shocked by it.

Really? They said in last week's preview that someone was going to die, and since nobody was killed by the time this week's show was over, I figured it'd be one of the three people in the last scene. Do you not watch the previews? I'm starting to think I shouldn't, since it kinda spoils things every now and then.
 
Re: Lost Season 4

Rhombaad said:
Do you not watch the previews? I'm starting to think I shouldn't, since it kinda spoils things every now and then.

That might be it. I download the episodes since I live in Europe, and I usually don't bother with the preview.
 

Rhombaad

Video Game Time Traveler
Re: Lost Season 4

A.C said:
That might be it. I download the episodes since I live in Europe, and I usually don't bother with the preview.

Gotcha. It makes sense now why you didn't see that coming. :beast:
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Re: Lost Season 4

Griffith No More! said:
Well, I doubt loverboy made it, but perhaps we haven't seen the last of mumsybabe. I knew he was toast during girly's whole, "Dad wouldn't want me hurt" BS, and then Rousseau when she was saying "I love you" and they started counting to run... Because you can't just run, you've got to count it off! How about, "Run when I say run" or "Let's run!." She didn't even keep a consistent count. =)

Anyway, kind of a lame final scene, despite the inherent drama involved it felt more like the Scary Movie version of Lost.

Yeah, my thoughts exactly. Saw it coming, and yeah, even looking at where the bullets hit, Karl got shot in the chest, and Rousseau was conveniently shot more on the side. The kind of wound that's never fatal in movies, even though there's the liver there. =) Anyway, Alex' weak "wait I'm Ben's daughter" at the end was really in bad taste as far as I'm concerned. She couldn't say that earlier, she had to wait until the love of her life AND her mom were dead. Guess she IS Ben's daughter after all. :void: Karl's death in itself doesn't bother me, but I'd be pissed if Rousseau died just like that.

Griffith No More! said:
I'm half expecting him to tell Sayid, "I know" in response to tattling on Michael. Speaking of which, bitch move and questionable judgment on Sayid's part turning Michael right on in before getting more information, though if I was Michael, I would have given a better explanation than, "I work for Ben." Something about trying to save everybody and redeeming himself and here's what you need to know would have been a better explanation.

Same here about the captain's reaction. In any case it was a smart move on Sayid's part, because they'll trust him more after that. I'm kind of expecting him to betray them and save Michael and all of this to be an "elaborate" plan on his part to take over the boat. As for Michael's explanation, well, maybe he did give a full one. "So I've felt remorse and tried to kill myself and blah blah blah" and then Sayid just goes "so you work for Ben?" ignoring the rest.

Griffith No More! said:
Tom, big mainland homo? =)

Oh yeah, was that really necessary? I guess they needed to meet their quota. :void:

And I don't watch the previews either, by the way.
 

snake1mi

Blood is just red sweat.
Re: Lost Season 4

I dont know why, but I kinda start to like the captains character..

Great episode by the way. That
homo
thing with the fat guy wasnt nessesary. And yess, great move by
Sayid

I realise they are trying tu brainwash us with the shit Michael is up to- so we forget about how desperate he was with the "He was my SSSSSSon" thing ; killing the two chicks earlier in the series. Lets just see what happens next. And I dont know why, but Im not interested in knowing what will happen to alex more than Im interested in knowing when the "oceanic six" will take off the island and what happens after, plus knowing what/who the damn monster is

Only 5 episodes left (for now), right?
 

NightCrawler

Aeons gone, vast, mad and deathless
Re: Lost Season 4

Finally some people like me that think Sayid's move was great. Everyone else is blabbing about how stupid/dumb he was.
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Re: Lost Season 4

Well, if it's part of a greater plan like Aaz theorized than yeah, but if not, then it looks like it was just an emotional decision on his part. Also, I'm not convinced that this will endear him to the Captain, though he's technically doing him a favor, people don't like to hear that things aren't going well under their nose from outsiders that are somehow mixed up in it; this could reflect poorly on all of them. And it's Lost, so it'll be whatever is most convenient for the plot at the moment. =)

"Thank you Sayid, I'm making you second in command!"

"I can't trust any of you, throw them all in the brig!"
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Re: Lost Season 4

Griffith No More! said:
Well, if it's part of a greater plan like Aaz theorized than yeah, but if not, then it looks like it was just an emotional decision on his part.

Hahaha, if not then it's a prime example of characters acting stupidly when it suits the writers. :guts:

Griffith No More! said:
And it's Lost, so it'll be whatever is most convenient for the plot at the moment. =)

Exactly. It's virtually impossible to guess because of this.
 
Re: Lost Season 4

Good news! Looks like we'll be getting an extra hour of LOST this season, the finale has been extended from a two hour finale to a three hour finale! This hasn't happened since Season 1 folks!

Here is how the episodes will break down:

Episode 4.09 - 24th April 10pm-11pm
Episode 4.10 - 1st May 10pm-11pm
Episode 4.11 - 8th May 10pm-11pm
Episode 4.12 - 15th May (Finale Part 1) 10pm-11pm
Episode 4.13 - 29th May (Finale Part 2 and 3) 9pm-11pm

Word is that there are so many big reveals that the producers wanted to deliver this season, that they felt like anything less than a full three-hour finale would have cheated the fans. In fact, I'm hearing that writers' draft of the second half of the finale was 80 pages long, which led all parties involved to realize these stories had to be told now. Anything else would be a ripoff.

So, ABC made it happen, with the help of Shonda Rhimes and Grey's Anatomy, who agreed to a two-hour finale on May 22. And bless McPherson and friends for taking the risk of letting the Lost finale air on May 29—that's after the end of the critical ratings sweeps period.
 
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