TV Series: Lost

Griffith · May 20, 2008

Re: Lost Season 4

I will take pity and discuss Lost. =)

A.C said:
Am I the only one still watching? Latest episode was great. Since there is no LOST this week how about we get some discussion going in here?

Yeah, it's good, but... it's the same deal as always, the more that's revealed, the less mystery, the less interesting the reality is compared to the mystery. There's not much they can do about that.

A.C said:
How the heck will the O6 get together in the end?

The problem is, knowing that they will, I really don't care that much how. The show has spoiled itself in a sense. I mean, you wouldn't want to see the events of the season finale before you saw the rest of the series, right? Well, that's the format they've basically decided to go with this season, and it's not a terribly compelling experiment, even though I'm not even particularly down on the show now. For the most part, it's been very purposeful this season, I just question some of their storytelling choices.

A.C said:
When asked if there could possibly be any other survivors, Sayid answers “absolutely not”. Wha...? If there were even a remote chance that anyone on the island could possibly still be alive, Sayid would be giving out latitude, longitude, and leading the charge back to that place himself.

Why do you say that? I'd think any of them would if they didn't obviously have a good reason to lie about seemingly everything, which for Sun includes the death of her husband. They obviously have a big secret to keep and reason to keep it.

A.C said:
Does this mean that the island is GONE by the end of the finale? Gone to the point of no possible way of going back there for anyone?

I doubt it, since I'm guessing that's where seasons 5 and 6 are actually going. BACK to the Island.

A.C said:
Then I remembered that Sayid could buy into Ben's lie that he left the Island in Desmond's sailboat like the Island is still where it always was. Did Ben suggest he left it around the same time as the O6 left?

Well, just because it changes location, either physically or in time or whatever, doesn't mean Ben couldn't still leave it in a sailboat. So whether that was a lie or not, it really doesn't suggest anything either way.

A.C said:
Also, if Michael is in the coffin, doesn't that mean he gets off the island with the O6? Otherwise he can't be in the coffin? 2 weeks until the finale parts 2 and 3...can't friggin wait that long!

Again, these are the kinds of questions that aren't really compelling at all anymore, who cares when Michael left, died, or if he's in the coffin or not? It's totally inconsequential, though I'm also looking forward to the finale, and a break from this show honestly. Actually, I'm more curious to see if Michael ends up getting Jin killed somehow to become an even bigger fuckup asshole. =)

A.C · May 20, 2008

Re: Lost Season 4

Griffith No More! said:
Yeah, it's good, but... it's the same deal as always, the more that's revealed, the less mystery, the less interesting the reality is compared to the mystery. There's not much they can do about that.

Any specific example of a mystery that's been revealed (this season?) which didn't measure up to the intrigue of the mystery? I know I kinda complained about the freighter when it was revealed but I didn't really consider the freighter to be a genuine mystery.

Griffith No More! said:
The problem is, knowing that they will, I really don't care that much how.

Well I can see why you might feel that way, but for me it's the opposite. If I didn't know some people would get off then I would just assume most of them (or none of them) gets off, and I wouldn't be as excited for the finale. I'd be more like "I want to know what happens, and whatever happens...happens." Now I'm more like; "How does that happen??" What the hell happens between last episode to the O6 being rescued with rescue pictures getting staged when there's a lot of people (including crew on the freighter) with the O6 all split up at the moment, at what point do they get together and then go "uh oh, the rest of you are screwed, only us 6 are leaving. SEE YA!" This is one finale I'm really excited about.

Griffith No More! said:
The show has spoiled itself in a sense. I mean, you wouldn't want to see the events of the season finale before you saw the rest of the series, right?

Well, the flash-forwards aren't the finale, they're limbo - in between Season 4 and Season 5. That's my impression anyway. It's the Star Wars Prequel appeal in a sense (and yes I know those turned out bad but the appeal was clearly there). This complaint have been around for a while that knowing who gets off the Island and what happens in the flash-forwards has somewhat ruined the suspense. Sometimes I can agree, and sometimes, I disagree. I think what the writers are giving us is a very different way of telling a story that we are only beginning to learn the implications and complexity of.

For instance, if we did not know the events that lead up to Sayid being recruited by Ben, his reunion with Nadia last week would've just been a very moving reunion of lovers. However, because we know that sometime not long in the future after they are married Nadia is murdered, another level is added to their meeting. Now the scene evokes emotions that are bittersweet and deeply heartbreaking, as we are already aware that their bliss will unfortunately be short-lived.

Griffith No More! said:
Why do you say that? I'd think any of them would if they didn't obviously have a good reason to lie about seemingly everything, which for Sun includes the death of her husband. They obviously have a big secret to keep and reason to keep it.

Yeah, but what is that secret? What could it possibly be? We know that Locke is attempting to move the Island, which is why I assumed it would be gone by the end of the finale. Maybe Richard and the Others will convince them to keep their mouths shut somehow...

Griffith · May 20, 2008

Re: Lost Season 4

A.C said:
Any specific example of a mystery that's been revealed (this season?) which didn't measure up to the intrigue of the mystery? I know I kinda complained about the freighter when it was revealed but I didn't really consider the freighter to be a genuine mystery.

The point of an axiom is usually that you don't have to explain it, but everything and anything will do for an example. =)

A.C said:
Well I can see why you might feel that way, but for me it's the opposite. If I didn't know some people would get off then I would just assume most of them (or none of them) gets off, and I wouldn't be as excited for the finale. I'd be more like "I want to know what happens, and whatever happens...happens." Now I'm more like; "How does that happen??" What the hell happens between last episode to the O6 being rescued with rescue pictures getting staged when there's a lot of people (including crew on the freighter) with the O6 all split up at the moment, at what point do they get together and then go "uh oh, the rest of you are screwed, only us 6 are leaving. SEE YA!" This is one finale I'm really excited about.

I too hope the finale makes it all worthwhile. We'll see if they have to cut and run or if it's a more deliberate agreement between those that leave and those that stay behind, seeing as the producers usually can't resist drawn out sequences like that. Maybe they'll switch it up though and it'll be a big action finale, with the fate of those left behind as the outgoing mystery heading into next season.

A.C said:
Well, the flash-forwards aren't the finale, they're limbo - in between Season 4 and Season 5.

That obviously wasn't the point, and examples aren't worth much if you take them literally to the point of distorting their meaning. Let me put it this way, I usually don't like knowing the results before I watch it happen, and they haven't done anything so far to change that or make it effective. It's like I'm watching the game after having already heard the score.

A.C said:
It's the Star Wars Prequel appeal in a sense (and yes I know those turned out bad but the appeal was clearly there). This complaint have been around for a while that knowing who gets off the Island and what happens in the flash-forwards has somewhat ruined the suspense. Sometimes I can agree, and sometimes, I disagree. I think what the writers are giving us is a very different way of telling a story that we are only beginning to learn the implications and complexity of.

I'll agree with the former, but I don't think it's been particularly different, more an ineffective form of in medias res if anything. Nor has it been that complex for that matter, and I doubt it's going to be revealed as such. If the plot could stand on it's own, the series wouldn't need to rely so heavily on mystery and gimmicks to jumble it all up, which has been it's bread and butter since the beginning. When it's all laid out, or if you look at it all laid out, it'll likely just be over the top or underwhelming, as much of it has been, but without the benefit of a caveat like there could still be some incredible payoff in the end that will make it the best story ever. More likely, not. It's like a Rubik's cube, complex and interesting while it's messed up, but nothing special once solved. Imagine a lot of this stuff presented in a straight forward, matter of fact manner; it would be hokey and silly. But when you present it like this with mystery, smoke and mirrors, slight of hand and MacGuffins, it can take on an almost religious sense of vague importance, which people naturally get wrapped up in, even if it's just totally fucking ridiculous when you look at it straight on. Maybe they'll get off the island on Noah's Ark.

A.C said:
For instance, if we did not know the events that lead up to Sayid being recruited by Ben, his reunion with Nadia last week would've just been a very moving reunion of lovers. However, because we know that sometime not long in the future after they are married Nadia is murdered, another level is added to their meeting. Now the scene evokes emotions that are bittersweet and deeply heartbreaking, as we are already aware that their bliss will unfortunately be short-lived.

On the other hand, it made the scene rather meaningless to me. :void:

A.C said:
Yeah, but what is that secret? What could it possibly be? We know that Locke is attempting to move the Island, which is why I assumed it would be gone by the end of the finale. Maybe Richard and the Others will convince them to keep their mouths shut somehow...

I guess that's why I'm still watching; they got me. =)

A.C · May 21, 2008

Re: Lost Season 4

Griffith No More! said:
The point of an axiom is usually that you don't have to explain it, but everything and anything will do for an example. =)

Well, for me it's not an axiom, nor have I heard such logic to be widely accepted either (outside of murder stories and such which focuses on a single detective mystery). For me mysteries is just annoying; knowledge is bliss. I enjoy re-watching LOST, knowing what certain things are. Same with other stories who present epic storytelling with a heavy amount of mystery like Xenogears or Berserk even if LOST isn't on the same scale. As long as the story is about compelling characters I know I'll like it, and I enjoy the characters in LOST. They're the heart for me, not the mysteries. I know the format with the flashbacks is partly responsible for bringing much more mystery to LOST, and some of it being unnecessary (how did Locke end up in a weelchair, etc) but alot of those mysteries end up being sweet good ol' fashion drama once they get to telling that stuff. I think that's where we can tell LOST is a good story even without the "gimmicks" as you call them.

Griffith No More! said:
Let me put it this way, I usually don't like knowing the results before I watch it happen, and they haven't done anything so far to change that or make it effective. It's like I'm watching the game after having already heard the score.

But we don't know the score. We don't know if Jin is dead. We don't know if the Island has moved. We don't know what will happen after the current flash-forwards. We're getting some clues and it's thrilling, but it's nothing like a ruined game. (Does knowing that Griffith becomes a Godhand ruin the Golden Age arc?) There aren't many shows right now where in the fourth year of its run you're actually still questioning the narrative style. That speaks a lot for the creativity of the writers. Though I will admit that it would be nice to have a chronologically presented final season. I don't agree that the story is underwhelming, however I will agree that the way it's presented may not always be the best. Still, I enjoy it as a creative effort.

Griffith No More! said:
If the plot could stand on it's own, the series wouldn't need to rely so heavily on mystery and gimmicks to jumble it all up, which has been it's bread and butter since the beginning. When it's all laid out, or if you look at it all laid out, it'll likely just be over the top or underwhelming, as much of it has been, but without the benefit of a caveat like there could still be some incredible payoff in the end that will make it the best story ever.

Thinking about this for a while, I very much would like to watch the story presented in a chronogical manner. It wouldn't be as catching for a pilot episode having the series begin with the birth of John Locke but I think it would be a compelling character journey watching it that way. Infact, I hope someone cuts it together like that eventually. Those compilations of the O815 crash from every characters angle are very cool.

It won't be the best story ever, I don't expect it to. I do think it's good though, and I expect it to continue to be good. As long as a potential reunion between Locke and Abaddon is good, I don't mind if "moving the island" ends up being lame.

Griffith · May 22, 2008

Re: Lost Season 4

A.C said:
Well, for me it's not an axiom, nor have I heard such logic to be widely accepted either (outside of murder stories and such which focuses on a single detective mystery).

It's even more basic than that. The unplayed note sounds the sweetest, anticipation is often better than the event, etc. If you start arguing about bent space when you hear the axiom "the shortest distance between two places is a straight line" you've missed the point.

A.C said:
For me mysteries is just annoying; knowledge is bliss. I enjoy re-watching LOST, knowing what certain things are. Same with other stories who present epic storytelling with a heavy amount of mystery like Xenogears or Berserk even if LOST isn't on the same scale.

That's all well and good, I like knowing the solutions too, the problem is when the solution is not as compelling as the possibilities were, it thus becomes disappointing. On the other hand, when they surprise you and blow you away, it's that much more impressive. Haven't felt that this season, and we'll get into next...

A.C said:
As long as the story is about compelling characters I know I'll like it, and I enjoy the characters in LOST. They're the heart for me, not the mysteries. I know the format with the flashbacks is partly responsible for bringing much more mystery to LOST, and some of it being unnecessary (how did Locke end up in a weelchair, etc) but alot of those mysteries end up being sweet good ol' fashion drama once they get to telling that stuff. I think that's where we can tell LOST is a good story even without the "gimmicks" as you call them.

I agree with you that the characters and the exploration of them and their mysteries were really the heart of the show, and I'd say the plot was more a device of constant intrigue with which to explore them and flesh them out, it could be anything you wanted it to be too, which was brilliant, but with that comes the problem of when you finally nail it down and limit it to something specific. Also, I don't feel the show is true to it's roots or it's characters anymore, nor do I believe there was really such a master plan from the first season to what we have now, but rather a natural evolution. Or maybe a not so natural one. This where the paradox of liking the show for it's characters comes into play because this season, rather than the device or machine of the plot being used to extract the characterizations, I feel the show is now driven by the machine, and we're watching the characters, like Jack for instance, being run through it instead. If that didn't make sense, it was character driven, now it's plot driven, and the characters are sort of slaves to it now rather than vice versa.

A.C said:
But we don't know the score. We don't know if Jin is dead. We don't know if the Island has moved. We don't know what will happen after the current flash-forwards. We're getting some clues and it's thrilling, but it's nothing like a ruined game. (Does knowing that Griffith becomes a Godhand ruin the Golden Age arc?) There aren't many shows right now where in the fourth year of its run you're actually still questioning the narrative style. That speaks a lot for the creativity of the writers. Though I will admit that it would be nice to have a chronologically presented final season. I don't agree that the story is underwhelming, however I will agree that the way it's presented may not always be the best. Still, I enjoy it as a creative effort.

That was kind of a ramble. I'll go by points:

1. We know results past the end of the season, theoretically. I know where most of these characters, many the most heavily featured will end up after the events I'm watching now, I'm happy if filling in the blanks thrills you, but it's very boring to me. I'm not as excited about the limited possibilities of how they'll get there as I would have been the limitless possibilities of where they were going if I didn't already know.

2. Jin is dead to me until we hear otherwise. I don't get excited about BS that's completely theoretical nonsense, it's like, "Is Rochine still alive, we didn't see her die!?" In any case, wow, he's either alive or he's not, SO EXCITING THE POSSIBILITIES! :isidro:

3. Following up on that pount. The "clues." Thrilling? Negative.

4. No, Golden Age doesn't suffer for it, nor does it compare because that was a extended story unto itself, very character driven, and which leveraged that foreknowledge deftly and in classical tradition. Imagine if in every other episode of Golden Age we jumped back and forth between the Black Swordsman and Guts in the Hawks. Sound like a total clusterfuck where all the emotion and impact is impossible to follow or care about? Welcome to the creative genius of Lost!

5. Creativity in and of itself isn't necessarily effective, and the reason I'm questioning it is because it's been ineffective for me. Not a compliment to the writers' creativity, frankly I'd say the quality has simply dropped like any other show going on it's fourth season. If anything, it seems like it's ahead of schedule on going downhill, especially since they purport to be containing that and trying to not allow it to happen by limiting the seasons and such. Ironically, it's almost like they've expedited the rate of peak and decline by expediting the rate at which they end the show rather than them getting it done before the wheels fall off as they planned. Like it's a ratio they can't escape. It really makes me wonder about the psychology of these things.

A.C said:
Thinking about this for a while, I very much would like to watch the story presented in a chronogical manner.

I wouldn't. =)

A.C said:
It won't be the best story ever, I don't expect it to. I do think it's good though, and I expect it to continue to be good. As long as a potential reunion between Locke and Abaddon is good, I don't mind if "moving the island" ends up being lame.

*shrug*

A.C · May 29, 2008

Re: Lost Season 4

I kinda gave up on this discussion since it felt like we were both beginning to repeat things we've already said earlier in the thread. I guess it comes down to me being a fan and you a casual viewer, but I would've been upset if the plot/mysteries were nothing more than what I wanted them to be. Maybe not "upset", but I probably wouldn't be a fan. I also think the writer-producers had a plan from the beginning which they've followed for the most part. They recently said some members of the O6 (Jack, Kate & Aaron) were picked as far back as Season 2. I dunno, I guess it's a question of -faith-, like the show itself. I like were it's going too.

Anyway, looking forward to watching the finale (later tomorrow) I heard there is going to be new scenes in the reprise of Episode 12 before the finale as well.

Rhombaad · May 29, 2008

Re: Lost Season 4

A.C said:
I guess it comes down to me being a fanatic and you a casual viewer

You've got a point there. :carcus:

Kidding aside, I'm looking forward to the finale and how they tie everything together. I can see where GNM is coming from, though, in terms of knowing the outcome and not feeling as excited as one might be had they stuck to the formula of the other seasons. I'm curious if they'll go back to flashbacks in the next two seasons, or if they'll dispense with the flashbacks/flashforwards for the remainder of the show. Personally, I'd be okay with losing them.

Walter · May 30, 2008

Re: Lost Season 4

Im about four episodes behind. Just like last season, and the one before that, LOST lost me somewhere in the middle. Ill still watch the finale though :serpico:

Griffith · May 30, 2008

Re: Lost Season 4

A.C said:
I kinda gave up on this discussion since it felt like we were both beginning to repeat things we've already said earlier in the thread. I guess it comes down to me being a fan and you a casual viewer

I don't know, I'm not the one who "gave up" on discussion and started labeling in lieu of argumentation. Any casual viewer can gobble up the press releases like a sheep, maybe I'm the real fan who questions things. =)

Anyway, that was nothing special, and I correctly guessed who

Bentham

was. Whoopie.

A.C · May 30, 2008

Re: Lost Season 4

Holy Frickin Shit! That was an amazing finale! Loved it from start to finish!

When Christian Shephard appeared to Michael and said "you can go now Michael" I think that was Jacob's message that he had served his purpose to the island and could now die. Seemed like an underwhelming reunion to bring him back just to kill him at the end of the year. But it completed his story. His return to the show was not the story it was hyped up to be but at least we got some conclusion there. Would've been interesting to see Kate and Jack's reaction to Michael being on the Freighter helping them out. Those two were the only O6 characters that didn't learn that Michael was back onscreen.

Is Jin dead or not? We still don't know for sure. I think there's a big chance he'll be alive in the future. There's too few characters left on the Island and he would be a great motivator for Sun to get back as well. Not sure how they would pull it off though since the freighter wasn't within the "field" of the island, which I assume Daniel and the Zodiac was. The sequence when the helicopter arrived to the freighter, to escaping and the freighter blowing up was very cool. Sun's reaction was great and dramatic.

I wonder why Locke called himself Lantham, and why even Kate would stick to using that name lol. Also, with the Island "moved" (which should have protected it) and all the Freighter people dead (except Dan, Miles, Charlotte), which is why the Island needed to be moved in the first place, what is this phantom menace that is ruining the Island that forces Locke to come begging for the other Survivors to return?

Speaking of moving the Island, I loved Ben's sacrifice. Ben seemingly sad that Jacob lost faith in him and having to turn the wheel to basically cast himself off the island; I loved his facial expression while he was turning the wheel: he was so determined, so out of breath, and so sad to be leaving the island. It had an element of "fairytale" quality to it, completely different from the sci-fi teleportation thing I was expecting but I loved it. The place where he went looked awesome, props to the prop department. The producers also crack me up because they called this years secret scene "the frozen donkey wheel" and it actually was a frozen donkey wheel :guts:

I wonder if Widmore has moved the island in the past too and that's why he cannot return to the island either? Probably not, since it looked like the wheel hadn't been used since before Dharma. There still has to be some sort of way for people like Tom and Alpert to come and go from the Island.

Is Sun trying to get revenge on Widmore or not? She should be well aware that Widmore put Keamy/the C4 on the boat and that he had no intention of rescuing them. I think she's planning a revenge on Widmore but I also like the idea of evil Sun joining him.

Also Miles is hilarious. So many great characters on the show right now.

In the context of just this episode the actual "rescue" might not have felt as satisfying as it was hyped up to be but taken into context for the entire series it was really strange but monumental when they finally are found by Penny's boat.

Some more thoughts; Charlotte was born on the island? Sawyer jumping out of the helicopter was awesome, Sayid vs Keamy fight was cool (did Sayid almost lose!?), Hurley playing chess with Eko makes me want to see Eko again.

Again more nods to Star Wars - the scene with Keamy in the Orchid and Ben in the shadows reminded me of Return of the Jedi when Luke is hiding in the shadows with Vader taunting to try and get him to come out.

Walter · May 30, 2008

Re: Lost Season 4

Amazing? I thought it was pretty bad, actually. Especially the clencher, if you can even call it that, at the end.

OH SHIT! FIX THE GAS TANK! OH NO, NEO-SHIP IS ABOUT TO EXPLODE! GET BACK TO THE ISLAND! WHAT ISLAND?! OH SHIT!

Oh yeah, and Jin totally got the fucking shaft man. What a gyp for him.

In all, I think this sums up the entire season. From start to squeaky finish.

NightCrawler · May 30, 2008

Re: Lost Season 4

Walter said:
Im about four episodes behind. Just like last season, and the one before that, LOST lost me somewhere in the middle. Ill still watch the finale though

I was in the exact same situation hours ago. So i finally decided to watch the last 4 episodes.

So Desmond is off the show most likely. Fuck that. I was so fuckin pissed with every little thing, i thought to myself, if they killed Ben off i would stop watching the finale, what the fuck was that change of character, and saying Locke would now be the leader of the Others, i mean, he's been a tool all season! Michael was so pointless, thank Jebus he's gone. And the heli crash on the water was just hilarious.
And of course Locke would be the one dead. They leave the island with him in charge and everything goes to shit. I can only imagine that a lot more people got killed because of his incompetence. And then he got himself killed.

Anyway the best (and the only worthwhile) episodes of the season were Desmond's and Ben's.

EDIT: Btw, check out the alternate endings.

In those endings, Sawyer and Desmond are in the casket. lol

Now that i'm processing this shit i have one question:

What happened to Desmond's vision last season where he saw Claire and Aaron get on the helicopter? You know, the vision that Charlie sacrificed himself for?

Walter · May 30, 2008

Re: Lost Season 4

In answer to the above question, that was probably just the island telling Charllie sweet little lies to get him to do what needed to be done. And in answer to one earlier,

I wouldn't count Desmond out of the series just because he found Penny (or Penny found him, really). Remember what Jack said, don't let him find you. Next season could be Penny and Desmond on the run. And anyway, won't he have to come back to the island, just like Jack and Locke and the others?

NightCrawler · May 30, 2008

Re: Lost Season 4

Walter said:
In answer to the above question, that was probably just the island telling Charllie sweet little lies to get him to do what needed to be done. And in answer to one earlier,

I wouldn't count Desmond out of the series just because he found Penny (or Penny found him, really). Remember what Jack said, don't let him find you. Next season could be Penny and Desmond on the run. And anyway, won't he have to come back to the island, just like Jack and Locke and the others?

Well, Ben only mentioned the survivors. I would like to see him back though, because the episodes centered on him are usually my favorites of the show. I thinks its unlikely though.

I love how Jack has become such an ass. Specially how he was all positive in getting everyone off the island yet at the last second he didnt care for the red shirts nor Jin, like "come on Kate they're only minor characters, lets go!"

Walter · May 30, 2008

Re: Lost Season 4

So, was anyone actually SHOCKED or INTRIGUED by

Locke being in the casket, or even the ending setup for next season? (Will Sawyer get his shirt back?! What about the fate of science nerd in the raft?!)

Most underwhelming Lost finale yet? I think so.

It should have ended with Jack and the Oceanic 6 seeing the boat in the distance, waving for help, and when it comes, the driver says "We're here for the boy," (Aaron) *cue screeching violins*. At least it would have been funny. But this ... whew.

PS: Kate: "AAAAAAAAAAROOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN! MAH BOY! THEY TOOK MY BOY!"

Griffith · May 30, 2008

Re: Lost Season 4

I was shocked in intrigued that they kept calling

Locke Jeremy Bentham even in situations where they would have clearly called him by his real name, like Kate at the start, "You believed Jeremy Bentham of all people!" Yeah, like she wouldn't call him John Locke there instead, as they always knew him on the island when he and Jack butted heads. Just another retarded detail in a finale literally exploding with them. Anyway, forget Jin, you think we'll get some zombie Locke action when it comes to their eventual return? Island: RISE FROM YOUR GRAVE!

Anyway, I couldn't agree more about this finale, definitely the weakest, especially following last season's superb finish, which made me think the show was revitalized, but instead...

Walter said:
In all, I think this sums up the entire season. From start to squeaky finish.

Fuckin' A.

NightCrawler · June 1, 2008

Re: Lost Season 4

The actor that plays Michael said he's disappointed cause he returned for nothing, just to get his face punched and die. :ganishka:

Griffith · June 2, 2008

Re: Lost Season 4

What are you talking about man!? It was the coolest thing ever! All part of the master plan! :isidro:

NightCrawler · June 2, 2008

Re: Lost Season 4

This threads needs more A.C.

A.C · June 2, 2008

Re: Lost Season 4

[quote author=NightCrawler]
What happened to Desmond's vision last season where he saw Claire and Aaron get on the helicopter? You know, the vision that Charlie sacrificed himself for?[/quote]

Charlie changed the outcome/future when he decided to tell Desmond that it was not Penny's Boat.

[quote author=Walter]
OH SHIT! FIX THE GAS TANK! OH NO, NEO-SHIP IS ABOUT TO EXPLODE! GET BACK TO THE ISLAND! WHAT ISLAND?! OH SHIT![/quote]

Was that not the most suspenseful gas-pumping scene in recent pop-culture history? :isidro:

[quote author=Griffith No More!]I was shocked in intrigued that they kept calling Locke Jeremy Bentham even in situations where they would have clearly called him by his real name, like Kate at the start, "You believed Jeremy Bentham of all people!" Yeah, like she wouldn't call him John Locke there instead[/quote]

She didn't say it like that. She said "You believed him of all people!" She only said "Jeremy Bentham" in response to the obituary which had the alias written on it. It does sound a little funny watching it a second time, but I think it works.

There really aren't alot of faults with LOST's story, it's all pretty well-crafted. LOST is a symphony. The layers, the depth, the unexpected highs and heart-breaking lows, various instruments coming together to make beautiful music. Going from Point A (Jack talking to the freighter) to Point B (“We have to go back!”) while keeping the audience guessing, introducing new characters, layering on the mysteries, expanding the story's scope to frighteningly epic proportions, and giving audiences a three-hour finale that gave answers, was full of action and set up season 5 perfectly, is an incredible feat. I thought the finale was a brilliant piece of television, a satisfying conclusion to an immaculately plotted season.

Perhaps the most cunning result of the flash-forwards is that they seem to support the idea that the writer-producers had a master plan: If the writers are showing us the future, they must have a damn good idea of how to get us there.

[quote author=NightCrawler]The actor that plays Michael said he's disappointed cause he returned for nothing, just to get his face punched and die. :ganishka:

[/quote]
[quote author=Griffith No More!]What are you talking about man!? It was the coolest thing ever! All part of the master plan! :isidro:

[/quote]

I agree with what Harold (the actor who plays Michael) said, I too was disappointed that he didn’t get to make amends with Jack, Kate, Hurley and Sawyer in particular. And pretty much nobody got to see him freezing the bomb. Walt didn’t get to see it. Jin got to see it, but might have died himself right after. Only Desmond, who Michael didn’t know at all, was there. Just because they have a master plan doesn't mean it will all be great, only that most of it will be and that (more importantly) the story will be pleasantly consistent (which it has been.)

[quote author=Walter]So, was anyone actually SHOCKED or INTRIGUED by Locke being in the casket, or even the ending setup for next season?[/quote]

I was. I'm looking forward to the next season. The producers have likened the last three seasons to a trilogy; and they're hoping Season 5 will be the equivalent of The Empire Strikes Back. :isidro:

I can certainly see the potential, and after an awesome Season 4 I don't think the last two seasons are going to disappoint.

[quote author=Griffith No More!]I couldn't agree more about this finale, definitely the weakest, especially following last season's superb finish, which made me think the show was revitalized, but instead...[/quote]

It wasn't as great as last years perhaps, but besides a few minor quibbles here and there, I felt the final episode delivered across the board. The sheer insanity of what the writers are accomplishing with LOST is going to lead to flaws, but that's more than OK. LOST cannot be judged on the same standard as other, less ambitious series (LOST being, possibly, the most ambitious television show ever). If LOST is attempting a 10.0 degree of difficulty, there will inevitably be some story flaws, no matter how expertly the writers pull it all off. But does a few faults really matter? This is a series that moves islands.

Griffith · June 2, 2008

Re: Lost Season 4

A.C said:
There really aren't alot of faults with LOST's story, it's all pretty well-crafted. LOST is a symphony. The layers, the depth, the unexpected highs and heart-breaking lows, various instruments coming together to make beautiful music. Going from Point A (Jack talking to the freighter) to Point B (“We have to go back!”) while keeping the audience guessing, introducing new characters, layering on the mysteries, expanding the story's scope to frighteningly epic proportions, and giving audiences a three-hour finale that gave answers, was full of action and set up season 5 perfectly, is an incredible feat. I thought the finale was a brilliant piece of television, a satisfying conclusion to an immaculately plotted season.

Too bad the "symphony" sounded like this to more objective ears. Seriously, the love sonnets to Lost aren't helping the credibility of your argument. Simply blanket labeling the show as incredible, a symphony, or good Lord, immaculate, and other such nonsense even as you, to your credit, admit it has its share of flaws, is ridiculous. You're undermining your own argument with such frivolous hyperbole, and saddling the show with a standard it can't possibly live up to for an objective viewer. It would be like if one of us, who are legitimately disappointed in the show, were to declare it the worst thing ever on television. Actually, we'd have to go farther than that, you describe it in terms that transcend television and are usually reserved for some sort of deep religious or spiritual experience. To match, Id' basically have to argue that Lost is an abomination akin to the anti-Christ. =)

A.C said:
LOST cannot be judged on the same standard as other, less ambitious series (LOST being, possibly, the most ambitious television show ever). If LOST is attempting a 10.0 degree of difficulty, there will inevitably be some story flaws, no matter how expertly the writers pull it all off. But does a few faults really matter? This is a series that moves islands.

Again, okay John Doe, just don't cut my girl's head off:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUIpgiPBk5k

We seriously need to re-enact the first couple of minutes of this before the series finale. :badbone:

NightCrawler · June 3, 2008

Re: Lost Season 4

I'll put it simply, he's a blind fanboy and i can't read that last post without feeling vomit coming up my throat. Can't believe somebody compared Lost to a beautiful symphony.
Somebody needs to check the old brit tv series The Prisoner and shut up before talking about magnificent shows on tv.
Be objective ffs, praise when its good, curse when it stinks. Lost is inconsistent plot and character-wise.

A.C · June 3, 2008

Re: Lost Season 4

[quote author=Griffith No More!]
the love sonnets to Lost aren't helping the credibility of your argument. Simply blanket labeling the show as incredible, a symphony, or good Lord, immaculate, and other such nonsense even as you, to your credit, admit it has its share of flaws, is ridiculous.[/quote]

I feel the good far outweight the bad, though I guess that description was over the top =)

[quote author=Griffith No More!]
It would be like if one of us, who are legitimately disappointed in the show, were to declare it the worst thing ever on television.[/quote]

I don't get it though, what is it that makes you so disappointed in the show? I know that you've given arguments but half of it does not compute. You say it's ahead of schedule on going downhill yet I felt this season was the best one since Season 1. I get your complaint about the flash-forwards but I personally liked them. It took away the suspense of the fate of the O6 on the Island, but it also increased the suspense of what would happen to the rest of the cast. We didn't know if we should look at the O6 as heroes or Judases who'd possibly abandoned their friends. It was a risk, but it was a risk well taken. It also rewards multiple viewings.

[quote author=NightCrawler]
Be objective ffs, praise when its good, curse when it stinks. Lost is inconsistent plot and character-wise.
[/quote]

Well, it's good. I'm not saying LOST is the best TV ever, just that it is possibly the most ambitious. How is the plot inconsistent? I remember we had alot of discussion regarding characters behavior and how they seemed to be acting as per demand of the plot but after seeing the finale Sayid's reunion with Ben (for example) seemed to make alot of sense.

Speaking of Sayid, his accent in the flash-forward where he busts Hurley out isn't as heavy as it used to be on the Island, because he's been speaking english for an additional 3 years. It's clever how they do think of that.

Aazealh · June 10, 2008

Re: Lost Season 4

Well I finally watched the last few episodes. "Underwhelming" is how I would describe the experience. There's a lot to bitch about, but I think the wooden wheel takes the cake. I didn't expect Locke to be in the coffin, and I find it a bit ridiculous honestly.

PS: A.C, you're grossing me out.

NightCrawler · January 23, 2009

Lost 5th Season

Have you guys seen the first two episodes? Any thoughts?

Locke is Jacob?

Hurley still lame and worthless?

TV Series: Lost

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew

Video Game Time Traveler

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With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew

Administrator

Aeons gone, vast, mad and deathless

Administrator

Aeons gone, vast, mad and deathless

Administrator

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew

Aeons gone, vast, mad and deathless

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew

Aeons gone, vast, mad and deathless

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew

Aeons gone, vast, mad and deathless

Administrator

Aeons gone, vast, mad and deathless