Beherit Analyzation

This was originally posted in the Chapter 187 Discussion MkIII.

Majin_Gatsu
This is pure speculation, but what if there's some other way of using the behelit without making a human sacrifice? How did Niko in the DC game use the behelit anyway? Did he sacrifice his dog or something? And what about the behilit apostle? He sacrificed his body.

Another thing that seems interesting to me is Skull Knight's collection of behelits. He could somehow be using their power to add to his own apparent superhuman strength.

Hm...

Another thing ... behelits don't dissapear after they're used. Skullknight got the behelit apostle's behelit ... could it be used to give Gatsu more power? Or could that be the way Skullknight rose to his current status? Maybe I should be in the speculation section...



White_Hawk
He's a really elegant junkie..
but, it is questionable what can you sacrifice, sice it seems the beherit apostle sacrificed his body and the world around him. but the world around him wasn't really dear to him, was it? And niko did sacrifice his dog.
but i think that all apostles have the power to bestow superhuman strenght to their servants.



CnC
When it comes to sacrificing... it seems the more you sacrifice the more powerful you become. And if you don't have anything to sacrifice (like Niko or the Beherit apostle), and choose to sacrifice yourself, you become kind of a "plague". By that I mean you have the ability to "affect" others (like the mandragora virus or the beherit apostle's ability to change others' bodies)

of course this is pure speculation, and I just woke up... so...

How many behelit colors do we know of? Green, blue, crimson, and was the behelit apostle's behelit silver? Ack, why does manga have to be black & white :-/?

So, Niko sacrificed his dog, the behelit apostle sacrificed his body and the world around him. The count sacrificed his wife. Who did the Snake Baron sacrifice? He doesn't seem like the type that would care about anybody. Then again, apostles are much more coldhearted than normal humans...

well it is pretty ceratin that the more u sacrifice more power u get, but the two in question (beherit and niko) have powers others may also have yet they didn't manifest it. the count made that guy(can't remember the name) attack gatsu with more power than human, and the two guys from the forest of mist, mantis and the bee, and all the children of jill...
i think they all have it, in a way

How many behelit colors do we know of?  Green, blue, crimson, and was the behelit apostle's behelit silver?  Ack, why does manga have to be black & white  :-/?

So, Niko sacrificed his dog, the behelit apostle sacrificed his body and the world around him.  The count sacrificed his wife.  Who did the Snake Baron sacrifice?  He doesn't seem like the type that would care about anybody.  Then again, apostles are much more coldhearted than normal humans...

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Its just green , blue, and red (and the blue one is kinda...iffy).

Who did the Snake Baron sacrifice? Who cares? And as for the jackass personality of most apostles, its something that could have been developed over hundreds of years. Take a look at Wild.

well it is pretty ceratin that the more u sacrifice more power u get

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Where is there evidence of this?

I'm with Walter ...

There is no real evidence that a larger sacrifice means more power. I think it all relates to how the apostle fits in to the grand scheme of everything, and whether or not their motives will really perpetuate what is desired by the god hand... that's why Zodd and Griffith are more powerful, because they are furthering the influence of the god hand in the world...

... and as for the apostles that Gatsu has killed, their motivations have been more short-sighted and foolish. Therefore their power was not as great.

Another thing is that once one becomes an apostle, is appears that their destiny becomes tied to the god hand.  What does this mean in terms of free will?  Do apostles neccessarily need to follow the god hand?  As we see in Wild's case, they seem to be able to act on their own, but are punished if they try and interfere with the god hand's plan.

The god hand almost seems to follow a philosophy of general chaos, madness, and evil.  The behelits are their "connection" if you will to the physical world.  They use them to exert their influence in more concrete ways.  Now the real question is:  is there a finite number of behelits?  And how do they cross over to the material plane of existence?

It will be interesting to see what answers Miura has to these questions, or if he is even going to answer them. Either way, the depth Miura puts in to the Berserk storyline never ceases to amaze me.

You know, you can modify posts and add in things later on . Instead of having 3 posts, next time just combine them to one please.

You know, you can modify posts and add in things later on . Instead of having 3 posts, next time just combine them to one please.

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I feel like I'm being reprimanded by you Walter ... I think I'll just have to hang my newbie head in shame :-[ I'm not a newbie to Berserk however, as I have been following it for the past 2 years. I almost bought some of the volumes when I visited Japan last summer. I'm definately kicking myself for not doing that now >:( ... I only have the first volume.

<*kicks majin_gatsu*> there! i did it for you!

actualy, there is no green beherit. The count's beherit is a dark-yellow, with flecks of light-yellow all over it. At least in one of hte artbooks (also, on hte now non-exsistance website, it was yellow-brown with whitish flecks). Then again, in another artbook (Or maybe the same one), the beherit is indeed green.

I've noticed that behelits seem to be sentient ... as we see here http://physics.scsu.edu/~jobien/berserk/fantran2.html
The behelit is aware of what is going on around it.  Which leads us to believe that Gatsu has been under constant "survellance", if you will.  If this is the case, then the god hand must know what Gatsu is up to, and is able to exert a certain amount of control as over what he is doing/ where he is going.  Which means they know he is going to Puck's home.   :( Uh-oh.  Gatsu is in trouble... then again, he's always in trouble ;)

Alright, I can tell when I'm not being taken seriously  

Do any of these points I'm trying to make seem valid at all  ???

Alright, I can tell when I'm not being taken seriously  

Do any of these points I'm trying to make seem valid at all  ???

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Yeah, they do. I never thought of the fact that Behelits could perhaps be used for gathering information as well. Don't mind the general silliness ;D, that's just the way things are here at times, newbie status got nothing to do with it. *grins* since it's based solely on how many posts you post and this board is fairly new, there are a lot of people who has hung around forever and still are newbies.

Back to the behelits...

I mean, what the hell are the Behelit's anyway? The only clue we have is that old (and almost certainly wrong) rumour that they are the crystalised tears of the people that do become apostles. Seriously guys, what if they are the eyes and ears (and mouths and noses...) of Godhand? It would make sense of them to keep an eye on things... especially since the behelits either end up with apostles, or people who might become apostles...

I mean, what the hell are the Behelit's anyway? The only clue we have is that old (and almost certainly wrong) rumour that they are the crystalised tears of the people that do become apostles.

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No, according to that "theory", the _Crimson Beherit_ was Void's crystallized tear of blood.

As for the "standard Beherits", we know where they come from. They're droplets of "hell". It's explained in volume 13.

Well immagine how close was gatsu to becoming a part of the god hand plan...when griffis offered him the beherit.
He could have bestowed ownership to gatsu. And the beherit did look at him, freaking him out.

About the sacrifice. I thnik that the more you give up from yourself, the dearest the thing you sacrifice, you gain more power. And the lifeforce of the sacrifice is also important. Slann points out during the eclypse that the more gattsu fights the more he feeds griffis. I tend to believe in such a theory.

It reminds me of Le Manchards box from Hellraiser and the One Ring of Sauron, always returning to it's owner...

I've been waiting for somebody to back up the theory of "more"... very interesting... this explains why Void is most powerful, because his sacrifice was HUGE. I mean, didn't he sacrifice the largest city in Midland, basically? I could be complete wrong on this, as I haven't finished studying Midland history

Anyway, back to the theory that Behelits are sentient ... if they are sentient, and can rearrange they facial parts, can they move? Griffith's crimson behelit came right to him... but how? Either it was carried, by some minions, or it moved on its own. This could be very bad for Gatsu. What if his behelit "escaped"... I know, this sounds really silly. But is Gatsu's behelit were to be used by someone else (an elf, maybe? Corrupt, and trying to rid the world of humans?) ... if that's the case, he could have a very powerful apostle sprouting up right under his nose...

I mean, didn't he sacrifice the largest city in Midland, basically?

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We don't know for sure.

I've been waiting for somebody to back up the theory of "more"... very interesting... this explains why Void is most powerful, because his sacrifice was HUGE.  I mean, didn't he sacrifice the largest city in Midland, basically?  I could be complete wrong on this, as I haven't finished studying Midland history  

Anyway, back to the theory that Behelits are sentient ... if they are sentient, and can rearrange they facial parts, can they move?  Griffith's crimson behelit came right to him... but how?  Either it was carried, by some minions, or it moved on its own.  This could be very bad for Gatsu.  What if his behelit "escaped"... I know, this sounds really silly.  But is Gatsu's behelit were to be used by someone else (an elf, maybe? Corrupt, and trying to rid the world of humans?) ... if that's the case, he could have a very powerful apostle sprouting up right under his nose...

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Did Zodd mention something about Griffith's beherit returning to him, when he killed Wild? Maybe not, but it seems rather obvious that they DO, in fact, "move"

For example, Niko's beherit. Eriza took it from Niko, presumably when he became an apostle. Rita took it from Eriza, after her death, and then accidentaly dropped it right by Balzac.

These series of events were obviously planned instances of that whole "causality" thing, and not the random instances that they appeared to be.

Just like how Griffith's beherit managed to travel out into open water through the castle sewage system, down streams and rivers, and eventualy right to him.

A seemingly remarkable set of coincidences, that is in fact, a planned occurance.

This is all speculation, of course, but I think it's pretty obvious.

I agree. There will not be any scientific way to solve how the Beherit managed to travel to Griffith, the whole point was that it was obviously all "meant to happen".

True ... true ... Gatsu's behlit rattled though, didn't it? During Griffith's rebirth?

Yep. Good call (I had forgotten about that). Anyway, I'm not denying that they are sentient. They obviously act and react to certain things, but I just dont think they are THAT sentient, you know?

The rattling of the Beherit during Chapter 173 was as Puck says: "resonating with the screaming". A spiritual reaction.

Yep. Good call (I had forgotten about that). Anyway, I'm not denying that they are sentient. They obviously act and react to certain things, but I just dont think they are THAT sentient, you know?

The rattling of the Beherit during Chapter 173 was as Puck says: "resonating with the screaming". A spiritual reaction.

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Yeah, I agree with that  ;)

On another note:

Places that elves live(d) in are supposed to be protected from evil, right?  Well, didn't the shadow beast appear to Gatsu in the springs at Godo's, that was enchanted?  If so, this might mean that the Behelit's influence isn't warded off (like evil spirits) by places enchanted by elves.  I tend to think that the behelit Gatsu has now will play a major role in the coming chapters...

Ooh, and I had another good thought:
Can more than one person use a behelit at once?  Sort of like a mutual sacrifice?  Or 2 people could even sacrifice each other to become something greater. That would be very interesting... hm