Griffith's pre-Eclipse words

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Griffith: (If you touch me now)
(If you grasp my shoulder now)
(I'll never again)
(I'll never again...!!)
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Griffith: (I'LL NEVER AGAIN FORGIVE....................)

Okay this has been bothering me for a long time. I know at this point in the series Griffith had a love/hate thing going on with Guts since he was the one responsible in his mind for casting him into darkness but at the same time was his support for many years. What I don't understand is if Griffith knows exactly what is going to happen and its meaning he will not forgive him over grasping his dream because Guts was the only one who ever made him lose sight of it?.... or is there some other meaning I missed?

Shadow67733 said:

What I don't understand is if Griffith knows exactly what is going to happen and its meaning he will not forgive him over grasping his dream because Guts was the only one who ever made him lose sight of it?

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Griffith didn't know what was about to happen at the time. He was just desperate and on the edge of madness. Here's a post from Walter written in 2001 about it:

Walter said:

My personal take on that line is that Griffith is emphasizing that he does not want Guts to take 'care' of him any longer. Griffith desires to be in control of his own destiny, and not be treated as a helpless cripple. If (and when) Guts would bear him on his shoulder, Griffith would lose his free will; turned into someone cared after.

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Griffith was pretty fortunate to be preordained as a God Hand. Truly Griffith would have been among the weak and helpless. I wonder what would have become of Guts and the Band of the Hawk if Guts did take it up. How the relations would have panned out. I guess the dream that Griffith had, with Casca being his wife and Guts his child would have been something in a way like it.

Death May Die said:

Griffith was pretty fortunate to be preordained as a God Hand.

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He was supposed to become Femto from the day he was born, and all his life up to that point served that purpose. It's pretty much the opposite of fortune that made it so.

I always took it to mean something along the lines of If you touch me it can never go back to the way it was. Griffith's not saying he wants it to stay the way it is but Guts running towards him and the apostles coming behind him Griffith realizes that Guts being in the immediate vicinity of him that he will be apart of whatever is happening.

I'm not sure I completely buy that interpretation, but I sure do like it . It's a pretty romantic concept.

The Ruffled Swordsman said:

I always took it to mean something along the lines of If you touch me it can never go back to the way it was.

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Well, I'm sorry to break down your interpretation, but originally when the episode was published in Young Animal, the line was complete and it was: "If you touch me now, I'll never be able to forgive you again." It was only shortened later on, when the volume came out.

Also, Griffith didn't know the apostles were there at the time, and I don't think he knew the Eclipse was about to start. He had just reached a breaking point (which is incidentally what started the ceremony).

Well, I'm sorry to break down your interpretation, but originally when the episode was published in Young Animal, the line was complete and it was: "If you touch me now, I'll never be able to forgive you again." It was only shortened later on, when the volume came out.

Also, Griffith didn't know the apostles were there at the time, and I don't think he knew the Eclipse was about to start. He had just reached a breaking point (which is incidentally what started the ceremony).

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What about saying "If you touch me now, I'll never be able to forgive you again." Contradicts thinking If you touch me now it will never go back to the way it was. Saying he can never forgive him, reinforces that in away for me. I don't pretend to know exactly what it means. But the feeling I get from someone saying I'll never be able to forgive you again, is that their saying if you do this it can never go back to the way it was.

The Ruffled Swordsman said:

What about saying "If you touch me now, I'll never be able to forgive you again." Contradicts thinking If you touch me now it will never go back to the way it was. Saying he can never forgive him, reinforces that in away for me. I don't pretend to know exactly what it means.

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Well it's just not what he says, that's all.

The Ruffled Swordsman said:

But the feeling I get from someone saying I'll never be able to forgive you again, is that their saying if you do this it can never go back to the way it was.

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It's not like there was a possibility for things to "go back to the way it was" anyway. Griffith was badly crippled and Guts wasn't going to serve under him again, no matter what. A lot of the remaining Hawks wanted Guts to become their leader, too. Casca was clearly in love with him, and struggling not to leave with him only out of loyalty and because of Griffith's dramatic state. I understand your train of thought, and I agree with Walter that it's a nice and romantic concept, but when you think more thoroughly it just doesn't make much sense to me.

Aazealh said:

Well it's just not what he says, that's all.

It's not like there was a possibility for things to "go back to the way it was" anyway. Griffith was badly crippled and Guts wasn't going to serve under him again, no matter what. A lot of the remaining Hawks wanted Guts to become their leader, too. Casca was clearly in love with him, and struggling not to leave with him only out of loyalty and because of Griffith's dramatic state. I understand your train of thought, and I agree with Walter that it's a nice and romantic concept, but when you think more thoroughly it just doesn't make much sense to me.

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Ahhhh I see, I didn't mean to say that's what he actually says, its just one possibility I thought of.
Not to say it is a definite one.
Your right it is very far fetched to think things could ever become the way they were again but thats why I thought it was so cool if that is what Griffith was saying. It sort of puts over to me just how definite the feeling he gets is, that this impending doom, with all the apostles coming out of the lake, is more of a definite detriment then his own destroyed body.