Author Topic: Episode 293  (Read 30011 times)

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Offline JetBlack

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Re: Episode 293
« Reply #125 on: March 04, 2008, 06:31:42 PM »
Well a direct or maybe better indirect explanation is not so necessary but sometimes Miura could deepen the missing parts like SK's story, the God Hand, and the Idea of Evil. I know it was discussed many times and that Miura choose to say less (lost episode), but the Idea of Evil, that is surely evil, doesn't seems so much... It was born from mankind, but we see that the people want a hero that saves them all (Griffith). Is this the evil? Well, maybe we can understand after Griffith becomes king...

And I feel like Guts' story and Griffith's story have now more distance between them. Feels a little strange. But maybe in the final battle we can understand better who Griffith is so... Who knows. (I'm sorry if this is little OT)

Thanks for the discussion
« Last Edit: March 04, 2008, 10:43:54 PM by JetBlack »
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Offline CnC

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Re: Episode 293
« Reply #126 on: March 04, 2008, 07:11:40 PM »
And I feel like Guts' story and Griffith's story have now more distance between them. Feels a little strange. But maybe in the final battle we can understand better who Griffith is so... Who knows. (I'm sorry if this is little OT)

Well keep in mind their paths crossed (albeit via Zodd and them seeing each other from across the water) just a few episodes ago.  Their paths will likely continue to cross in the future.
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Offline Rhombaad

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Re: Episode 293
« Reply #127 on: March 04, 2008, 07:42:26 PM »
Well a direct or maybe better indirect explanation is not so necessary but sometimes Miura can deepen the missing parts like SK's story, the God Hand, and the Idea of Evil.

He'll explain all of those things in due time, you just have to be patient.  It's not like he doesn't have detailed explanations for Skull Knight, the God Hand and the Idea, he just hasn't revealed them yet.  They'll come at their appropriate place in the story.

I know it was discussed many times and that Miura choose to say less (lost episode), but the Idea of Evil, that is surely evil, doesn't seems so much... It was born from mankind, but we see that the people want a hero that saves them all (Griffith). Is this evil? Well, maybe we can understand after Griffith becomes king...

We know that Griffith will bring about the Age of Darkness after he's been crowned king.  While we may not know exactly what that means, it sounds pretty evil.  Griffith's very existence and ascension to the God Hand, followed by his incarnation, has all been arranged by Idea through causality, and the same applies to the citizens' desire for a savior to rescue them from their plight.  Little do they know, Griffith's "rescue" will most likely take them down an even darker road than the Kushan invasion.

Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 293
« Reply #128 on: March 04, 2008, 08:58:29 PM »
Welcome to the forums, Jet  :serpico:

I know it was discussed many times and that Miura choose to say less (lost episode), but the Idea of Evil, that is surely evil, doesn't seems so much... It was born from mankind, but we see that the people want a hero that saves them all (Griffith). Is this evil? Well, maybe we can understand after Griffith becomes king...
Well, it comes down to this: The Idea of Evil grants people their greatest ambition, which far more often than not, trample on other people to get there. Miura gave us a perfect analogy during Griffith's sacrificial ceremony, when Griffith has to create, pile up and then walk on the bodies of dead to reach his castle. That's pretty evil stuff.

Not to mention the fact that it indirectly empowers the Apostles to "do as they will." Not like those that end up making sacrifices are great examples of humanity either, and remember, these people were "hand-picked" through Causality, to be empowered over humanity.

And while Griffith and Guts are drifting apart geographically, the last scene as the Band departed from the dock in Ep 278 left no question about the future of their relationship. Griffith hasn't forgotten him, by far.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline JetBlack

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Re: Episode 293
« Reply #129 on: March 04, 2008, 10:31:34 PM »
Maybe both of you are right... We will see the real evil during the Age of Darkness.
Slan's description of the Age of Darkness:
"The dead shall overcome the living." "Later, people shall refer to this as the Age of Darkness."
So this means the age of darkness has an end? With the downfall of Griffith... And if so why does the Idea of Evil want this fall?
I think Miura is doing a funny thing by showing Griffith like a savior, beautiful like an angel, and that talks with the spirits of the deads (his dead troops) on the hill in front of their families, that seems sooo gooood.
Instead Guts is a feared berserk warrior, like a monster to people. And all of this is karma too. :ganishka:.

Quote
And while Griffith and Guts are drifting apart geographically, the last scene as the Band departed from the dock in Ep 278 left no question about the future of their relationship. Griffith hasn't forgotten him, by far.

Well I hope so but I cannot imagine how.

Thanks to Walter, Rhombaad and CnC for the clarifications.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2008, 10:45:17 PM by JetBlack »
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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 293
« Reply #130 on: March 09, 2008, 08:34:01 PM »
We know that Griffith will bring about the Age of Darkness after he's been crowned king.

Well, to be more precise, we only know he'll bring it about. It's just a guess that things will begin after he's crowned king.

Slan's description of the Age of Darkness:
"The dead shall overcome the living." "Later, people shall refer to this as the Age of Darkness."
So this means the age of darkness has an end?

Not necessarily, no.

Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 293
« Reply #131 on: March 09, 2008, 08:44:52 PM »
I dunno, I always think of the Age of Darkness as being all the events following the last Eclipse. Since then, there's been a plague (that may or may not have been localized to Albion), an invasion, Apostles are rampant among towns (well, 2 are that we know of), and with Griffith's incarnation, the worlds are starting to merge. That's all pretty dark stuff, to me.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 293
« Reply #132 on: March 09, 2008, 08:51:07 PM »
I dunno, I always think of the Age of Darkness as being all the events following the last Eclipse. Since then, there's been a huge plague, an invasion, Apostles are rampant among towns (well, 2 are that we know of), and with Griffith's incarnation, the worlds are starting to merge. That's all pretty dark stuff, to me.

Yeah, in fact, Slan's speech pretty much says that things start with Femto's birth. The thing is, it's kind of a vague concept and I doubt it's supposed to be clear cut, like one day all's well and the other it's the Age of Darkness. It's most likely going to be a progressive descent into darker times, and despite the fact things are looking good right now thanks to Griffith, we could say that it's already begun with the fall of Midland. What we should be wondering about is what will make things go worse instead of better in the future?

Offline hanafubuku

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Re: Episode 293
« Reply #133 on: March 10, 2008, 08:35:39 PM »
Yeah, that was clearly the mood. :schierke:
lol, multi-story building of naked women + small cell = orgy regardless of the fact that Raban and group just snuck past croc and elephant soldiers and the expected threat of naked kushan soldiers frolicking about.

Anyways, I too would like to see Ganishka beat Griffith into a pulp - but seeing that all his moves are clearly being read by the God-hand, it just aint gonna happen.  Too bad too, since he was trying to exceed his limit via the vat.  Would also like to see Guts and Casca's kid come back in the story too.

On the note of Griffith becoming king, I hope that gets interrupted by Ganishka long enough for Guts to come back and spoil the party, and then Griffith will go like "ahhhh" :sob sob: "just can't become king" :sob sob: "no one left to sacrifice" :sob sob: and everyone around will point a finger at him and say "ha ha"

OH! Lets all write a thank you letter to :miura: and encourage him to take a year long break!
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Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 293
« Reply #134 on: March 10, 2008, 08:37:54 PM »
Anyways, I too would like to see Ganishka beat Griffith into a pulp - but seeing that all his moves are clearly being read by the God-hand, it just aint gonna happen.
Huh? Did I miss the scene with Conrad installing wiretaps in Ganishka's bedchambers?

Quote
On the note of Griffith becoming king, I hope that gets interrupted by Ganishka long enough for Guts to come back and spoil the party,
Highly unlikely.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Jaze1618

Re: Episode 293
« Reply #135 on: March 10, 2008, 11:36:48 PM »
I think this poster was referencing the precognitive dream the citizens of wyndham had about escaping the city.

Huh? Did I miss the scene with Conrad installing wiretaps in Ganishka's bedchambers?
Highly unlikely.

Offline hanafubuku

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Re: Episode 293
« Reply #136 on: March 11, 2008, 04:06:42 AM »
Huh? Did I miss the scene with Conrad installing wiretaps in Ganishka's bedchambers?
Its as Jaze said.  I figured that the dreams telling the prisoners to cover their windows with cloth were injected by the God-Hand, which would indicate that the God-hand knew of what Ganishka was up to.  As for how they would know what Ganishka was up to - not sure.  Maybe a causality/fate/destiny thing that somehow the God-Hand are able to control/view.

Highly unlikely.
I think so too T_T.
On another side note - wonder how the whole issue with Guts inner demon is gonna work out?  I don't think there would be mass killing of companions, but it has to be resolved somehow right?
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Offline Okin

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Re: Episode 293
« Reply #137 on: March 11, 2008, 11:50:43 PM »
Well, the Beast of Darkness has decided/forced to take a rest for now. I think it said it would wait until Guts' current affairs were dealt with, then return when they're goals were the same ( :griff:).
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Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 293
« Reply #138 on: March 12, 2008, 11:42:34 AM »
Its as Jaze said.  I figured that the dreams telling the prisoners to cover their windows with cloth were injected by the God-Hand, which would indicate that the God-hand knew of what Ganishka was up to.  As for how they would know what Ganishka was up to - not sure.  Maybe a causality/fate/destiny thing that somehow the God-Hand are able to control
Yeah but its a very presumptuous statement to say the God Hand CLEARLY know Ganishka's every move, which is what Im objecting to.  It's quite another thing to say they may foresee something of an eventuality, or one possible outcome of the future scenarios (which is what Slan alluded to at the end of the Eclipse, actually). But somehow I doubt Void, Slan, Conrad and Ubik are staring through Ganishka's window every night, floating in their sephiras  :ganishka:

Here's one of the only indications we have of how the God Hand monitor events:
Quote from: Slan, episode 219
Iíve wanted to meet you, boy. Itís been a long time.
No, I've always felt you.
In the cave, in the tower, through countless nights Iíve felt your struggle.
It's an indirect thing. She FEELS him but doesn't CLEARLY SEE HIS EVERY MOVE.  :void:
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Offline hanafubuku

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Re: Episode 293
« Reply #139 on: March 13, 2008, 08:00:09 AM »
Here's one of the only indications we have of how the God Hand monitor events:It's an indirect thing. She FEELS him but doesn't CLEARLY SEE HIS EVERY MOVE.  :void:

Well... I'll admit that saying that ALL of Ganishka's moves are being clearly read is being too presumptious, but I still think that most of the actions of the apostles and regular humans are clearly known to the Godhand (specifically Femto in this case).

It's just uncanny how everything happening so far seems to be going "as planned" for Femto.  While some of this could be attributed to his strategic expertise that he exhibited as Griffith, being able to accurately foresee every event up this point (to such a level that Femto can provide instructions to protect against Ganishka's mist in advance via the dreams) seems to suggest something more than just simple foresight, or knowledge of possible outcomes.  I am presuming the knowledge possessed by the Godhand are superior to the prophetic powers of Sonia which *clearly* showed the image of exactly how Vritannis would end up.

I pointed out the apostles and regular humans earlier in reference to the chat that Guts had with Skullknight which would seem to indicate that the Godhand's knowledge of Guts and Casca's (and maybe those around them) activities are clouded.  Of course, the quote from Slan would indicate that they will still sense them - in much the same way the demons sense and are drawn to the brand, but the level of foresight displayed by Sonia would not seem to apply, and thus they can change the course of causality.

Oh, on that side note - there are no such thing as alternate outcomes are there?  I figured those episodes with Idea conversing with Griffith and Guts with SK seemed to indicate a "fated" future. That is, there is no such thing as free will (with the exception of Guts and Casca, and magic users) and that "human will" is being controlled by GodHand/Idea.

edit:  grammar fix :/  Wow.... sorry for the long post!

« Last Edit: March 13, 2008, 09:27:00 AM by hanafubuku »
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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 293
« Reply #140 on: March 17, 2008, 10:03:05 PM »
It's just uncanny how everything happening so far seems to be going "as planned" for Femto.  While some of this could be attributed to his strategic expertise that he exhibited as Griffith, being able to accurately foresee every event up this point (to such a level that Femto can provide instructions to protect against Ganishka's mist in advance via the dreams) seems to suggest something more than just simple foresight, or knowledge of possible outcomes.  I am presuming the knowledge possessed by the Godhand are superior to the prophetic powers of Sonia which *clearly* showed the image of exactly how Vritannis would end up.

You're neglecting the possibility that a power even higher than the God Hand may be at work here. Namely the Idea of Evil.

I pointed out the apostles and regular humans earlier in reference to the chat that Guts had with Skullknight which would seem to indicate that the Godhand's knowledge of Guts and Casca's (and maybe those around them) activities are clouded.

What discussion are you referring to? I don't remember anything of the sort ever being explicitly stated.

Oh, on that side note - there are no such thing as alternate outcomes are there?  I figured those episodes with Idea conversing with Griffith and Guts with SK seemed to indicate a "fated" future. That is, there is no such thing as free will (with the exception of Guts and Casca, and magic users) and that "human will" is being controlled by GodHand/Idea.

That's not really how things work. The principles of causality are different from the concept of inescapable fate that we can find in Greek mythology. I would say that it's more subtle and vicious. There is free will, but it's strongly influenced by causality, making it hard to change things that really matter because people's actions and reactions were planned for a long time. The reason branded people can maneuver more easily is because they exist in the Interstice between the Astral World and the Material World. This has already been explained many times in the past so I don't feel like posting lengthily about it, but you should be able to find interesting discussions on the subject in old threads.