Episode 295

hello
this is my first post on these forums

i really liked the lead up pages showing the stupefied reactions of everyone at ganishka's new incarnation. though having said that i can't help but think of the possibility of those many arms rotating with speed in a circular manner and him lifting off the world helicopter style.

with ganishka and his whole fog thingy going he may just be able to use that skill together with his new form/power, and fog up the world, either eating everyone up in the process or electrocuting them afterward.

he did have a weak spot when using the fog thing though so maybe in this current form he may have one as well. maybe the 'key' part of him is nestled someone in the middle of that monstrous body. everyone should have a weakness somewhere right? well, those who seem invincible always do anyway!

nevertheless, it will be interesting to see what griffith does in response, if anything!

The shot at the end of this episode where you see Ganishka's ominous figure dwarfing everything is quite powerful.

Been a member for a while but lost track of the series until recently so trying to catch up. Can someone remind me if there was another member of God Hand before Griffith became a member? I can't recall if Griffith was a replacement for an earlier member or the final piece to the puzzle (ie it was always 4 members because Griffith was destined to be the fifth).

remydat said:

Been a member for a while but lost track of the series until recently so trying to catch up.  Can someone remind me if there was another member of God Hand before Griffith became a member?  I can't recall if Griffith was a replacement for an earlier member or the final piece to the puzzle (ie it was always 4 members because Griffith was destined to be the fifth).

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There wasn't a fifth member of the God Hand before Griffith, so he wasn't replacing anybody.  We can assume there weren't always four members, either, because the Eclipse occurs every 216 years, during which another God Hand member is created.  We can infer from this that at one point in time, there wasn't a God Hand at all.  All of this is based on the information we've been given so far.

Uriel said:

You're assuming Griffith has an apostle form to begin with. We don't know for sure -- but I somehow doubt it.

As for Irvine... I'm not so sure how effective an arrow would be when dealing with hell personified. This isn't the same as the Daiba.. there probably isn't a snake lurking around there somewhere. Besides, I think this battle needs to be won without the apostles changing into their more monstrous attire.

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Isn't Griffith's black hawk appearance an uber form? The one that he wears a full face mask and he has black lips, the form he took during the eclipse. I would imagine that this is his ultimate power form and he would sure need it for the emperor...

Kavaron said:

Isn't Griffith's black hawk appearance an uber form? The one that he wears a full face mask and he has black lips, the form he took during the eclipse. I would imagine that this is his ultimate power form and he would sure need it for the emperor...

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This is kind of a gross misinterpretation. You're referring to Femto - Griffith as he is in God Hand. During the incarnation ceremony at Albion (see vols 20-21), Femto, an astral being, was transferred to Griffith's new body. We'll see what happens, but as far as we've seen, it's not a form he can just turn on and off.

Yes, the Femto form is very cool and looks very powerful. I bet Griffith can transform as Femto at will. By the way, have we seen and of the other God hands transform to anything? I can't remember.

Kavaron said:

Yes, the Femto form is very cool and looks very powerful. I bet Griffith can transform as Femto at will.

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We don't know for sure what he can do (besides causing arrows to miss him or summoning a great wind), so we'll just have to wait and see.

Kavaron said:

By the way, have we seen and of the other God hands transform to anything? I can't remember.

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What do you mean by transform? If you mean Incarnated, like Griffith was at Albion, then no. A member of the God Hand can only be incarnated once every 1000 years. If not, then I'm not sure what you're referring to.

The answer is no in any case, we've never seen any God Hand member besides Griffith go through any kind of transformation from their initial form and appearance, either to a more human appearance or to another monstrous form. The closest thing is when they've briefly manifested themselves in the real world through other mediums. That's perhaps why I'm dubious of Griffith just transforming into Femto like some kind of jumped up Apostle, though it's definitely in the realm of possibilities, Griffith is something different and unique, and I'd personally like to see that reflected in something new, though a Femto return would certainly be riveting nonetheless... now I kind of want that both, damn it. =)

Smith said:

I bet Miura will have an explanation how it will be more advantageous in current physical form than previous mist form.

Maybe you can think of it as a exchange for a massive increase in attack while sacrificing one's defense... (you know something like those skills in RPG? )

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I don't know how can be a great deal, like Aaz say now Ganishka can bleed.

"Ganishka: Ye..yes (much clearer), arms. No longer mists, arms of flesh... More. More. To pummel my enemy, to tear him apart, to take what I want, arms to grab with. More..."

But in another point of view the new form and powers of Ganishka seems to me more suitable to a fight with an enemy, to destroy and grab, but not to control a world. With his mist form and related powers, there was more control, hiding and strategy. Now for sure he can't hide anymore.
But we have seen he needed more power for the battle against Griffith. Now he is the perfect challenger. And all this confirms another time that the great plan of the Idea of evil goes on perfectly.

damn the final page looks like the hand altar in the eclipse..

I guess Griffith saves everyone and has a major flashback

Griffith No More! said:

The answer is no in any case, we've never seen any God Hand member besides Griffith go through any kind of transformation from their initial form and appearance, either to a more human appearance or to another monstrous form. The closest thing is when they've briefly manifested themselves in the real world through other mediums. That's perhaps why I'm dubious of Griffith just transforming into Femto like some kind of jumped up Apostle, though it's definitely in the realm of possibilities, Griffith is something different and unique, and I'd personally like to see that reflected in something new, though a Femto return would certainly be riveting nonetheless... now I kind of want that both, damn it. =)

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I'm glad you threw in that bit at the end; whilst I don't expect some insta-Femto transformation, I do always consider that Griffith IS different from the other God Hand members at this current point in time.
Whereas they have all used a spiritual form to temporarily manipulate something corporeal, Griffith was reincarnated (is that the word I should be using?) into a form, so that form IS him and is linked to a much greater level; he still has his spiritual (godly?) form of Femto, but also he is now one with the body until further notice, kind of like there are 2 sides: one which all normal humans see, and the other beyond their scope.

I'm kind of dancing around the point, but I guess to sum it up I'd say that he still IS Femto spiritually and that needs to be taken into consideration, but also the body he is in now isn't just a throwaway kind of deal; also, I doubt it would have any transformation powers, seeing as apostles bodies are created to have the power to transform (see Wyald's human form being very different from his apostle human form, e.g. new body) whereas Griff took an already formed body as his own.

Something tells me, that the next episode is going to jump back to the boat. Wouldn't that be great timing

Death May Die said:

Something tells me, that the next episode is going to jump back to the boat. Wouldn't that be great timing

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What's wrong with character development and thousands of lovingly-detailed waves?

Given the time between episodes, there's a good chance that the narrative will jump back to Guts and Co. But I think it would be cool to have Ganishka make his first move, whether it be to call Griffith out or to start making his way towards his adversary (depending on whether or not he can easily move in his current form). A little teaser piece before jumping back to the other storyline. When Griffith approached him and set forth the challenge for the final battle, Ganishka did mention that his demon city would be the place for it to be held. I doubt this would foreshadow the notion that he is anchored in his current form to the city itself, since Ganishka probably didn't have an exact idea of what his final form would be. If the story holds true to that then it would seem that Griffith and his army would be making their move into the city, which may or may not be the most intelligent strategy. But knowing Griffith he's probably got some idea formulating in that clever brain of his.

I just watched this again recently so it popped into my head after I sat back to ponder this episode.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzn5L_vkfew

Reading this thread was like scaling a mountain alright, a couple of people mentioned Akira and Tetsuo's mutation at the end. That scene always fascinated me (After I got over seeing it at around 13 or so), I saw it as a profound visual representation of the influence of power on a human being . . . This pulls out all the stops and links concept upon concept in such a labyrinthine tapestry that's every bit as daunting, visceral and beautiful as real-life experience.

Oh man!

These are the episodes that really get me thinking, and if anything is for certain, things definitely "going down"!

If my knowledge of what is happening is correct, Ganishka is possibly now more powerful than most of us really understand. I think, and hope, we're possibly going to get some of those answers that some of us already got from the "lost episode".



I say this because, at least from the translation I recovered, Ganishka has now "possessed" the Abyss, which is the home of the Idea of Evil, if I am not mistaken. If Ganishka has really uncovered this power, then I suspect in the upcoming volumes we'll see a lot of changes.... possibly even a death or two with the Neo-Hawks, and maybe even a complete rearrangement within the entire lore of the series. It all kind of makes me really wonder who to root for, if you know what I mean. On the one hand, Griffith is the cause of all of Guts' current strife, and the other, well, Ganishka is simply pure evil!

Anyway, as usual, I'm on the edge of my seat. Can't wait to see how this pans out.

(love the icons btw)

EndLeSS8 said:

I wonder what the members of Godhand think about all of this.
They probably think it's an interesting turn.

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Well, I doubt they're surprised by the turn things are taking. If Griffith saw it coming then I expect them to have known about it as well. I think they're either patiently waiting for their time to come, or working quietly in the shadows, parallel to Griffith.

Smith said:

I bet Miura will have an explanation how it will be more advantageous in current physical form than previous mist form.

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Being ridiculously huge seems enough of an explanation to me.

Smith said:

It didn't work back in vol 27, I doubt he will be that stupid to try again.

How about firing multiple cannons? Most likely the targetted part will just grow back though....

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I was joking about Irvine. And cannons? All the cannons in the world couldn't damage him at this point.

Duststorm said:

I think that Griffith will defeat Ganishka using his astral form, the same way how Zodd got defeated by Griffith.

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But Zodd's meeting with the Falcon of Light took place in a dream, so it'll have to be at least a little different.

The Blue Daemon said:

You know, I had been on this train of thought that the apostles would take their uberforms, but yeah, i'm not sure how much sense that would make given all of the normal humans around them believing them to be as normal--at least corporeally--as them. perhaps this is why sonia's eyes are the way they are, to foreshadow this battle might be a pyrrhic one.

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Their uberforms, uh? Is this barbarism really needed? Anyway, not only do a lot of members of the Band of the Falcon seem to be aware that they're not just normal guys (they're called the Demon Soldiers, remember), but I think that by now it wouldn't make much difference, considering what just happened to Ganishka. But ultimately I do think it would be useless, because I don't see how they could do anything to him at this point. He's far beyond their reach. As for Sonia, her dialogue is clear enough to me: the principles of this world will end. That's the big deal.

mr.umbrella said:

i can't help but think of the possibility of those many arms rotating with speed in a circular manner and him lifting off the world helicopter style.

with ganishka and his whole fog thingy going he may just be able to use that skill together with his new form/power, and fog up the world, either eating everyone up in the process or electrocuting them afterward.

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Are you serious? Lifting him like a helicopter, then covering the whole world with fog to destroy everything? That seems a bit grotesque to me, and of course far-fetched.

mr.umbrella said:

he did have a weak spot when using the fog thing though so maybe in this current form he may have one as well. maybe the 'key' part of him is nestled someone in the middle of that monstrous body.

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Indeed, that's a possibility. Despite his formidable appearance, he may have a weak spot that will make it relatively easy for Griffith to defeat him.

Griffith No More! said:

That's perhaps why I'm dubious of Griffith just transforming into Femto like some kind of jumped up Apostle, though it's definitely in the realm of possibilities, Griffith is something different and unique, and I'd personally like to see that reflected in something new, though a Femto return would certainly be riveting nonetheless... now I kind of want that both, damn it. =)

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Actually, I've been thinking that I'd like us to see a glimpse of Femto underneath the Griffith coat of paint, for example while he'd use the full extent of his power against Ganishka.

thesyndrome said:

I'm glad you threw in that bit at the end; whilst I don't expect some insta-femto transformation, I do always consider that Griffith IS different from the other God Hand members at this current point in time

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Well yeah, like you said, Femto was incarnated. He's got a corporeal body, that's a pretty big difference with the rest of them.

thesyndrome said:

Griffith was reincarnated (is that the word I should be using?)

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Not exactly. Femto was incarnated into a new Griffith. The original Griffith had previously become Femto, a new being (so Femto was born from Griffith if you will, but never had a corporeal body before volume 21). The difference is subtle but it's there.

thesyndrome said:

so that form IS him and is linked to a much greater level; he still has his spiritual (godly?) form of Femto, but also he is now one with the body until further notice, kind of like there are 2 sides: one which all normal humans see, and the other beyond their scope

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What you're saying here is a bit confusing. Femto, who's a spiritual being, has a corporeal body that has the appearance of his former body, the one he had while he was still human and called Griffith. It's indeed his body, though one could actually debate whether it's truly the case since it was "stolen" from the Demon Child. And the Demon Child still exists in there to some extent, as shown in volume 22.

thesyndrome said:

I'm kind of dancing around the point, but I guess to sum it up I'd say that he still IS Femto spiritually and that needs to be taken into consideration, but also the body he is in now isn't just a throwaway kind of deal

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Well yeah, indeed. Did anyone say anything to the contrary though? It's a well-known fact.

thesyndrome said:

I doubt it would have any transformation powers, seeing as apostles bodies are created to have the power to transform (see Wyald's human form being very different from his apostle human form, e.g. new body) whereas Griff took an already formed body as his own

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I'm sorry but I don't think what you're saying makes much sense here. Apostles don't receive new bodies, rather they are transformed into something else by the God Hand. When their spirit is modified by evil, it affects their body and make them into what we know. But when they die and their soul is sent to the Vortex, their body reverts to what it originally was, leaving no trace of their life as an apostle. If they received a completely new body, it would stay the same instead of reverting. The case of Griffith is different because he's not the same kind of being and he underwent different transformations, but anyway we have no way to know whether he can transform or not.

Death May Die said:

Something tells me, that the next episode is going to jump back to the boat. Wouldn't that be great timing

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I wouldn't mind. It'd be interesting to see the group's reaction to what is happening. Schierke, Guts, Casca and the elves should be able to feel a surge of "evil" arriving in the world, so I'd like to see if/how they're affected/can feel it either now, when Ganishka dies, later on, etc.

KazigluBey said:

When Griffith approached him and set forth the challenge for the final battle, Ganishka did mention that his demon city would be the place for it to be held.

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Well he only said so in agreement after Griffith proposed that the final battle take place in Wyndham.

KazigluBey said:

I doubt this would foreshadow the notion that he is anchored in his current form to the city itself, since Ganishka probably didn't have an exact idea of what his final form would be. If the story holds true to that then it would seem that Griffith and his army would be making their move into the city

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It's pretty clear he didn't know what would happen exactly. However I don't see how that foreshadows anything about whether he can move or not.

KazigluBey said:

But knowing Griffith he's probably got some idea formulating in that clever brain of his.

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Since he seemed to know what would happen in advance, it's likely that he's got a plan for the whole battle already.

Deci said:

I say this because, at least from the translation I recovered, Ganishka has now "possessed" the Abyss, which is the home of the Idea of Evil, if I am not mistaken.

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If you want reliable translations, just head over to the Translation Section of the forum. There has been speculation about what kind of power Ganishka obtained. Daiba says Ganishka has become the "evil world", which is a rather generic term and doesn't necessarily refer to the Vortex of Souls or the Abyss.

Aazealh said:

If you want reliable translations, just head over to the Translation Section of the forum. There has been speculation about what kind of power Ganishka obtained. Daiba says Ganishka has become the "evil world", which is a rather generic term and doesn't necessarily refer to the Vortex of Souls or the Abyss.

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First off, thank you. Though I had previously looked there before I remain impressed. A lot of talented and knowledgeable folk you have here at this forum.




Second, forgive me for my confusion, but is "the Abyss" translated differently during the "lost episode"? If so, that's slightly infuriating as it questions all of my volume translations up to what DH has released.

Regardless, I still get the inclination that Miura is trying to have us root for Griffith once again as the underdog... Something about Ganishka reeks of unquestionable power. I mean, he's not just merely an apostle anymore, but something unfathombly more sinister.

If Griffith wins without even breaking a sweat, I don't know if there's any hope for Guts... but hey, maybe that's the point.

Deci said:

First off, thank you. Though I had previously looked there before I remain impressed. A lot of talented and knowledgeable folk you have here at this forum.

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You're welcome, and thank you for the compliment on behalf of everyone here.

Deci said:

Second, forgive me for my confusion, but is "the Abyss" translated differently during the "lost episode"? If so, that's slightly infuriating as it questions all of my volume translations up to what DH has released.

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I'm not sure what your question is. Maybe my answer wasn't clear enough, sorry. The word "abyss" has been translated and used consistently by our members here at SK.net over the years. It's just that while in this episode Ganishka says he has been to the abyss of the evil world, it doesn't mean he's "possessing" the Abyss, or possessed by it. The Abyss is well, an abyss (a bottomless gulf), and what Daiba says is merely that Ganishka has become the evil world itself. Like I said, it's not very clear at this point what it means, because the word is not very specific. It could mean he's filled himself with the essence of the Vortex of Souls, or maybe that he's tapped into the power of a part of the Astral World that's like the Qliphoth: a dark place where evil spirits dwell. If you need a good translation for episode 83, here you go: http://skullknight.net/idea/

Deci said:

Regardless, I still get the inclination that Miura is trying to have us root for Griffith once again as the underdog... Something about Ganishka reeks of unquestionable power. I mean, he's not just merely an apostle anymore, but something unfathombly more sinister.

If Griffith wins without even breaking a sweat, I don't know if there's any hope for Guts... but hey, maybe that's the point.

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Well that's possible, but since we don't know the extent of Griffith's power, nor that of Ganishka's, it's hard to precisely foresee what will happen.

I just had a small thought. I'm not sure if it could be possible but, we know Griffith can move fast, and we also know he can summon a strong wind. Do you guys think he could slash ultra fast with his sword creating some kind of a wind cut? You know like in Kenshin? That could be kinda interesting...

I doubt it. If Griffith was going to directly attack Ganishka, he'd probably defeat with no more than a wave of the hand. Like that attack Femto used against Skullknight (You know, the one that was ridiculously over-analyzed awhile back.). There is a chance we'll see something flashy, but it'll certainly be more over the top than the same move Serpico uses.

Okin said:

I doubt it. If Griffith was going to directly attack Ganishka, he'd probably defeat with no more than a wave of the hand. Like that attack Femto used against Skullknight (You know, the one that was ridiculously over-analyzed awhile back.). There is a chance we'll see something flashy, but it'll certainly be more over the top than the same move Serpico uses.

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Oh yeah that's true I forgot that Serpico can do that with his sword and his elemental cloak (not sure if that's how it's called).

Yeah I'd like to see Griffith use his power like in the eclipse. I doubt though that it'll be enough with just that. Considering the size Ganishka has now and since we don't really know yet what he can do in that shape other then crush and tear appart his opponents.

jackson_hurley said:

Oh yeah that's true I forgot that Serpico can do that with his sword and his elemental cloak (not sure if that's how it's called).

Yeah I'd like to see Griffith use his power like in the eclipse. I doubt though that it'll be enough with just that. Considering the size Ganishka has now and since we don't really know yet what he can do in that shape other then crush and tear appart his opponents.

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Judging by what we've seen so far: I strongly suspect that Femto/Griffith (And at least Void) have powers that are based on the manipulation of natural forces. Momentum, acceleration, space, gravity, etc. Way back in volume three, Guts took a swing at Femto and was sent flying. Guts' sword never actually touched him, there was no sound of an impact, nor any sign that Griffith had been hit: He simply reflected the force of Guts' swing back at him and possibly multiplied it as well. Similar to how Void reflected the Skull Knights' thrust through a Klein Bottle.

I'd rather we not compare Berserk to Kenshin under any circumstance.