I have trouble liking shonen manga

B

Badass mode ash

Naruto, Bleach, One Piece, personally for me none of these hold a candle to Berserk, they're your standard fighting manga.

My main problem being that I have a dislike for manga that make a point to be so idealistic in some way or another, I don't mind ideals here and there, I just don't like preaching in the stuff I read. One Piece in particular really isn't for me due to this.

From the art, plot and characters, to the themes of following dreams and friendship, it's a little much for me to stomach. There's also the fact almost no one ever really dies in the story aside from in flashbacks, the mangaka doesn't like to kill off his characters as I've read, almost makes him seem gutless when you consider how much more of an impact somethings in the story would have had if someone really kicked when you thought they would. Give me something with a sharp edge that doesn't mind letting you know it can cut deep when it wants too.

I can enjoy the more light hearted stuff, but only when it's done in a way I like-- I'm picky!
 
Scorpio

Scorpio

Courtesy of Grail's doodling.
Well, considering that Berserk isn't shonen the comparison kind of falls flat- not that you could anyway, as Berserk wasn't made to be some pop-manga cash cow
 
KazigluBey

KazigluBey

Misanthrōpos
Badass mode ash said:
Naruto, Bleach, One Piece, personally for me none of these hold a candle to Berserk, they're your standard fighting manga.

My main problem being that I have a dislike for manga that make a point to be so idealistic in some way or another, I don't mind ideals here and there, I just don't like preaching in the stuff I read. One Piece in particular really isn't for me due to this.

From the art, plot and characters, to the themes of following dreams and friendship, it's a little much for me to stomach. There's also the fact almost no one ever really dies in the story aside from in flashbacks, the mangaka doesn't like to kill off his characters as I've read, almost makes him seem gutless when you consider how much more of an impact somethings in the story would have had if someone really kicked when you thought they would. Give me something with a sharp edge that doesn't mind letting you know it can cut deep when it wants too.

I can enjoy the more light hearted stuff, but only when it's done in a way I like-- I'm picky!
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I agree with the idealistic point. There certainly are points where the Shonen mangas tend to get overly preachy with usually simple bleeding heart concepts. Like Scorpio mentioned, Berserk wasn't aimed for the biggest Manga/Anime demographic, which gives it license to not follow the usual formulas and patterns that these other shows use. Makes it more intelligent, dark and moving in ways that aren't cliche 90% of the time. I'm also picky when it comes to the less serious stuff. Detective Conan is probably my favorite guilty pleasure. I just wish they would get some more episodes released on DVD, as there are a boatload from what I understand. The only thing that bugs me about Detective Conan is that nearly all the criminals who are caught do the very worst possible thing you could do, and that is tell anything to the police. NEVER talk to the police when asked questions involving any case. The best attorneys will tell you this from the get go. But besides that I like the light-hearted mystery genre.
 
Ramen4ever

Ramen4ever

The only Shonen that I have read that could compare with Berserk is GTO. They're not alike in anyway except that they're both great. That's really the only way they compare to each other... and maybe that they both star badass characters.
However like KazigluBey said, Shonen and Seinen manga's are aimed at different demographics so they can't really be compared. As for the "3" shonen, I've never read One Piece or Bleach and I've only looked into Naruto (not the kind of stuff I like to read).

Imo, comparing those 3 Shonen to Berserk is like racing a ford taurus, a buick century station wagon and an old volkswagen van (Ninja turtles) all against a Mclaren F1 or a Shelby Mustang, or a BMW M3/5/7
 
KazigluBey

KazigluBey

Misanthrōpos
GTO is pretty good, I started watching some of the Anime recently.

It seems that a lot of the shonen follow a formula kind of like DB/DBZ as it was one of the originators. People trying to get stronger, facing evil foes who can at times be much more powerful, so some how they have to get better to challenge these foes again and usually prevail, perhaps losing a faithful friend or ally along the way.

I liked Yu Yu Hakusho, at least the Anime (haven't read the manga) but it's not exactly high brow stuff. Good for unwinding.
 
Aazealh

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
I don't get the point of this thread. You're comparing apples and oranges. Seems to me that you just want to rant about shounen manga, and that's why I'm going to rename the thread and move it to Shootin' the Breeze.

Badass mode ash said:
My main problem being that I have a dislike for manga that make a point to be so idealistic in some way or another, I don't mind ideals here and there, I just don't like preaching in the stuff I read. One Piece in particular really isn't for me due to this.
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It fits the target audience it's aimed at. Better serve kids with idealism than harsh, depressive stories. And the world didn't wait for those works to do it either.

KazigluBey said:
The only thing that bugs me about Detective Conan is that nearly all the criminals who are caught do the very worst possible thing you could do, and that is tell anything to the police. NEVER talk to the police when asked questions involving any case. The best attorneys will tell you this from the get go. But besides that I like the light-hearted mystery genre.
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That's because the series is set in the tradition of old detective stories from the last century. It's manichean, and once caught the culprit always admits everything and accepts his demise. I don't think it's a big deal at all, and it's not like most of it is believable otherwise anyway. Just look at it like you would an Agatha Christie or Arthur Conan Doyle novel.
 
KazigluBey

KazigluBey

Misanthrōpos
Aazealh said:
I don't get the point of this thread. You're comparing apples and oranges. Seems to me that you just want to rant about shounen manga, and that's why I'm going to rename the thread and move it to Shootin' the Breeze.

It fits the target audience it's aimed at. Better serve kids with idealism than harsh, depressive stories. And the world didn't wait for those works to do it either.

That's because the series is set in the tradition of old detective stories from the last century. It's manichean, and once caught the culprit always admits everything and accepts his demise. I don't think it's a big deal at all, and it's not like most of it is believable otherwise anyway. Just look at it like you would an Agatha Christie or Arthur Conan Doyle novel.
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I understand that point, and it really doesn't ruin anything for me, I just find it amusing. I enjoy Sherlock Holmes which is the main reason I was drawn to Detective Conan.
 
S

Syaoran

I want you to remember
Well I guess it's just not your thing

I myself try not to judge until I can watch a couple episodes or read some of the manga

Maybe you just haven't found something that really caught you yet ?

Edit: oh yeah if you compare anything to berserk prepare to be disappointed :ganishka: ; Nah I'm not that obsessed with it
 
N

nfries88

I actually like the shonen manga. Aside for the idealism and awkward placement of monologues (who gives someone a twenty-page lecture as they're beating the crap out of them?), it isn't all that bad.

Naruto and Bleach aren't good examples, and One Piece is alright but it gives a bad name to pirates.
Some better shonen manga would be "Great Teacher Onizuka" (along with "Shonan Junai Gumi" and "Bad Company", its prequels), as mentioned by Ramen4ever; though GTO is sometimes a little preachy too, "Ares" (one of my personal favorites), "New Grapper Baki" and "Baki - Son of Ogre", "Fist of the North Star" (another of my personal favorites), "Jojo's Bizarre Adventure" (I haven't read much of it, it's supposedly like 90 volumes long but I've only read two; it was really good though), "Hentai Kamen" (it's a gag manga), "Ultra Red", and "Yu Yu Hakusho".

I used to be a fan of "Inuyasha" too, but in the last couple of years I've lost my love for it, so I'm not sure about whether or not I'd suggest it.
 
Aazealh

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
nfries88 said:
"Jojo's Bizarre Adventure" (I haven't read much of it, it's supposedly like 90 volumes long but I've only read two; it was really good though)
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You might not want to express too much of an opinion on JoJo if you've only read the first two volumes. 92 have been released so far.
 
Ramen4ever

Ramen4ever

nfries88 said:
"New Grapper Baki" and "Baki - Son of Ogre", "Fist of the North Star" (another of my personal favorites),
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I'm an idiot, how could I forget Fist of the North Star. I somehow mislabeled it in my head as seinen. >_<. I wouldn't say it compares to Berserk but it is quite legendary. As for Baki. I hate that series so much. I read into it recently, up till the ali Jr arc as well as a few volumes of the Son of Ogre sequel. The manga is in an art style I can't stand and filled with panty shots.. of guys and man ass. I'll pass on any future releases. :puck: Not to mention that the characters really aren't "human" characters. Their personalities and values are really quite alien.
 
N

nfries88

Aazealh said:
You might not want to express too much of an opinion on JoJo if you've only read the first two volumes. 92 have been released so far.
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Are you saying that it starts going south or something?
I'd have read further but nobody carries it around here, and my friend only had the first two volumes.

Ramen4ever said:
I'm an idiot, how could I forget Fist of the North Star. I somehow mislabeled it in my head as seinen. >_<. I wouldn't say it compares to Berserk but it is quite legendary.
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It depends on who you ask. It definitely isn't aimed at 10-year-olds, but it lacks the mature themes common in seinen.

Ramen4ever said:
As for Baki. I hate that series so much. I read into it recently, up till the ali Jr arc as well as a few volumes of the Son of Ogre sequel. The manga is in an art style I can't stand and filled with panty shots.. of guys and man ass. I'll pass on any future releases. :puck: Not to mention that the characters really aren't "human" characters. Their personalities and values are really quite alien.
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Haha, yeah, there's a little too much "man ass". I thank god for the bright light that seems to appear in place of their genitalia. I still think the series are good. That'd be kinda like a girl not liking berserk because you can see a pair of boobs every few episodes.
As far as their personalities.. they're taken to ridiculous lengths, but that's not terribly uncommon in shonen (I'd like to cite One Piece, Fairy Tail, and (Goku specifically) Dragon Ball [/Z/GT] here).
 
Aazealh

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
nfries88 said:
Are you saying that it starts going south or something?
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No but it's not quite the same thing. I just don't think that's enough exposure, basically.
 
KazigluBey

KazigluBey

Misanthrōpos
I finally cracked open my Kenshin box set and am about 2/3's of the way through it. The more I watch shows like this (style wise and story wise) the more I wonder how the Anime writers or artists aren't at each others throats for all the blatant copying that goes on. I swear I get deja vu and predict a lot of what is going to happen way before it does. The battle against Shishio reminded me so much of the end of the Chapter Black saga in Yu Yu Hakusho. All the hero's allies (at least in that moment in time) take a crack at the big bad villain while the hero has a time to recoup and get ready to kick it up a couple notches. Plus you have the typical group of henchman who are said to be the best and the good guys have to get through them. Entertaining but not too original.
 
O

Okin

The Ultimate Battle Creature
I'm pretty much just idiotic when it comes to choosing shonen anime. Usually I like the ones with the most violence like Grappler Baki, Hokuto no Ken, and Guyver. I actually enjoy some mainstream shonen like One Piece, Yu Yu Hakusho, and Rurouni Kenshin, yet I hate Bleach and Naruto (and anything that is afraid to show blood).

I can definitely understand how you feel about shonen, but for me, I just need my fix of ridiculous violence every now and then.

Also, what the hell does Gantz qualify as?
 
Oburi

Oburi

All praise Grail
Okin said:
I'm pretty much just idiotic when it comes to choosing shonen anime. Usually I like the ones with the most violence like Grappler Baki, Hokuto no Ken, and Guyver. I actually enjoy some mainstream shonen like One Piece, Yu Yu Hakusho, and Rurouni Kenshin, yet I hate Bleach and Naruto (and anything that is afraid to show blood).

I can definitely understand how you feel about shonen, but for me, I just need my fix of ridiculous violence every now and then.

Also, what the hell does Gantz qualify as?
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Bleach has lots of blood, but it's very deep into the story. I've only seen the anime but I was surprised at all the blood and swearing in the later episodes.

And yea I Gantz is definitely seinen on steroids. it's really fucked up. When I first read it I was blown away. But just because Berserk and Gantz are awesome it doesn't mean that only manga with blood is cool. I was just reading Pretty Face, it's so girly and gay but I loved it. It had me laughing sooo hard.
 
O

Okin

The Ultimate Battle Creature
Oburi said:
But just because Berserk and Gantz are awesome it doesn't mean that only manga with blood is cool. I was just reading Pretty Face, it's so girly and gay but I loved it. It had me laughing sooo hard.
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Yes, but it's just hard to believe someone's life is in danger at the climax of a chapter when they haven't so much as coughed up a little blood. Your right about how important comedy is in shonen though. One Piece is gold!
 
Rhombaad

Rhombaad

Video Game Time Traveler
I don't really mind shonen too much. I find Naruto entertaining and still follow the anime as it comes out in Japan. I've read some of the manga, but not up to where it is currently. Compared to Berserk it's not very good at all, but I like it for what it is. Rurouni Kenshin was the first shonen title I got into and it's still one of my favorites to this day. I haven't seen or read any of Bleach or One Piece, but they both have a decent fan base.
 
Aazealh

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Rhombaad said:
I haven't seen or read any of Bleach or One Piece, but they both have a decent fan base.
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Hahaha, One Piece has a "decent" fan base? That's quite the understatement here. Just so you know, it's sold something like twice more volumes than Naruto. If it isn't the best selling manga of all time yet, it will soon be.
 
Rhombaad

Rhombaad

Video Game Time Traveler
Aazealh said:
Hahaha, One Piece has a "decent" fan base? That's quite the understatement here. Just so you know, it's sold something like twice more volumes than Naruto. If it isn't the best selling manga of all time yet, it will soon be.
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Haha, you know what I meant. :beast: I guess people like pirates more than ninjas these days.
 
Aazealh

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Yeah, I think it goes beyond the pirate/ninja phenomenon that pretty much only exists on the Internet. Anyway, I don't really follow One Piece, but I've read some of it and I think it's a very good manga all things considered.
 
A

A.C

I prefer One Piece easily. It's kind of silly between the epic arcs but when it's good it's good. It is also the only one that has remained what it once was.
 
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