Berserk the Manga Re-Read Project Vol. 2 (Spoilers) 10/3/08 - 10/10/08

It's the second week of the manga re-read project and we raised some very interesting points last week with the introduction of the Black Swordsman. We'll be examining one volume each week until we've covered the whole of the Dark Horse release cycle. While there's nothing preventing fans from using their Japanese translations or the originals if they speak the language, this is just an issue of courtesy for those who have been only following the release. Please don't spoil beyond volume 25 in your discussions at this time.

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This week, we'll examine Berserk Manga Vol. 2. Comments can be related to analyzing elements of the book and how they relate to the Berserk storyline as a whole or simply commenting about what you thought of it.
 
Berserk Volume 2 Review by Charles Phipps

Berserk Volume 2 is last part of the "random adventures" portion of the Berserk series. The battle against Count Caterpillar will be the last Apostle Hunt we'll see for an extremely long time. This is actually a very good thing as it prevents the Apostles from being reduced to a bunch of one-shot villains, which is what they seemed to be from the start, that Guts exists to slay along his road to killing Griffith.

Too many Shounen manga follow this formula religiously with each new issue introducing some extremely powerful enemy with a gimmick in order for the heroes to slay them. This isn't bad by any stretch of the imagination, the only other manga I buy continuously is Samurai Deeper Kyo, but it limits storytelling potential.

Honestly, I have the sneaking suspicion that Kentaro Miura "sold" the Berserk series with the first three volumes. Certainly, the sex and violence is hardcore in Berserk Volume 1 through 3 but 1 and 2 don't take the audiences too far out of their comfort zone. It's fairly easy to get the premise that Berserk seems to be about. I.e. that there's this badass Anti-Hero Swordsman who goes around slaying demons with his plucky elf sidekick. In Volume 2, there's not much "Myth Arc" introduced yet and its easy enough to understand this premise for even causal fans.

Next volume, of course, we're going to be introduced into the longest flashback in the history of manga as far as I know. Also, we're going to discover that the Berserk series is well above anything that is normally introduced in manga in terms of storytelling. At this point, audiences are getting most of the same that they were exposed to in the first volume. I think this is very good marketing to be honest, even if most of the meaty material is absent. Nevertheless, the book is still filled with excellent characterization bits scattered throughout the story.

Guts' personality, here, is still very much about establishing what an utter badass and horrible person that he is. Like Dirty Harry and a few other notable jerkass heroes, the author is trying to show how different Guts is by his over the top rudeness to those around him. Puck calls him on his appalling insensitivity to Vargas and his unwillingness to rescue the man.

I actually like the fact that Kentaro Miura subverts the usual expectation of a Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves style rescue for Vargas. Guts knows its a trap to go after Vargas and decides not to do so. Of course, it's rather undercut by the fact that Gut's 'strategy' (if you can call it that) is to head on attack the man's castle afterward. One really wonders if it would have been that much more difficult.

Vargas himself is another great 'in your face' character. It's not enough that Kentaro has the man's wife and child killed by the Count, the author has them eaten and the man horrifically deformed by the result. Really, Vargas is a character that exists for shock value but as appalling as readers are expected to react; he's actually one of the nicer characters in the series. It's a good way to demonstrate that hideous=evil in Berserk nor are the heroes going to be necessarily beautiful. It seems needlessly cruel that Puck's advice for Vargas to live only leads to him getting captured seconds later but its all about establishing the horrifically cruel mood of the setting.

The Count also receives some character development here. The character is not all that different from the Snake Baron in his habits. He's a slightly higher nobleman and has a religious persecution fetish but otherwise he's a cannibal monster that has animal qualities to him. Likewise, he seems to commit mayhem for its own sake. What separates Count Caterpillar from the Snake Baron is that we see the man still maintains some lingering spark of humanity for his daughter.

Theresa is also established here as basically an innocent that is living in a gilded cage. One thing that will become a recurring theme is that innocence is genuinely just ignorance in this society. We're meant to sympathize with Theresa because she's beautiful, sweet, and is kind to Puck but its also clear that her kvetching over her father's deeds is a gross under reaction to his actual depravity. Still, it's interesting to speculate if she's a Proto-Charlotte like the Snake Baron was a Proto-Count and the Old Priest was based on the traitor Baron (basically an old man who facilitates the noble's depravities).

I do like is that the Count pretty much blows out the idea that Apostles are the only foes Guts will face. The Alien's style Symbiote that he puts in Zodark is one that allows him to nearly kick Guts ass. Later, Guts is just causally tossed around by the Count. The difference in power level between the Count and the Snake Baron is huge. I don't think we could honestly have continued issue after issue of Guts getting his clock cleaned by Apostles without it becoming ridiculous or the creatures being weakened. Really, despite how much I enjoy the future Roslin arc, I don't think that you could really top the Count for Apostle hunting.

One final note; we also get introduced to the Goat Cultists this issue. However obliquely. I was genuinely surprised that they would make a return later in the series.
 
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Guest
Much the same as last volume and the next, I have a bit of a warped perspective due to not starting off the series with these.

I really like the front cover of this volume, getting to see a bit of Guts working on his arm cannon is something else of a rarity, and seeing it in color is a treat. Later in the volume we see it again, and this moment is probably one of my favorites from the volume. During this part of the volume is another thing that grabbed my interest the more I re-read it. We see Puck trying to get Guts attention, but with Guts ignoring him totally, he flies off yelling "I won't ask you again!". I've tried to figure out what he was going to ask. My first inclination was "Will you help Vargas escape?", but upon further analysis of the events, and taking in Guts current persona, I'm not entirely sure. Either way I'll land on, "What're you going to do about this?" as my guess, since shortly afterward Puck expresses some genuine surprise that Guts even bothered to show up to Vargas' execution.

Guts knows its a trap to go after Vargas and decides not to do so. Of course, it's rather undercut by the fact that Guts 'strategy' (if you can call it that) is to head on attack the man's castle afterward. One really wonders if it would have been that much more difficult.

I too think it was a bit off. Actually looking back at volume 1, I'd have to say how he confronts all of these apostles is a bit inconsistent with the later volumes. Guts doesn't like to wait for "the right opportunity" to swing at an apostle, much less watch a poor helpless man die for practically no reason. Though it does serve as a helper to reader, to make you hate the Count that much more. From that perspective, like Guts getting captured to meet Puck, makes perfect sense from a story-telling view.

As usual I really enjoyed most of Puck's dialogue this volume. The part where he tells Vargas to live for the future and not for revenge really rings a bell with the story. His confrontation with Guts about being afraid because, like Vargas, he is also fighting a battle he can't win just really struck home for me. Of course, without the information I have from later volumes it probably wouldn't have hit me so strongly.

Another intriguing part is where we see Guts look at the demon baby and he sees it's head turn into Vargas'. What that's suppose to mean exactly I'm not sure, but I guess it's to show some sort of guilt that he didn't try to save the poor helpless guy.

I thought Vargas was a really nice and cheerful guy, despite all of his downfalls. His death struck a chord with me, as was intended I imagine.

The fight with Zondark is probably the funniest thing to happen in this volume. Almost textbook badguy, with getting defeated, then taking in corrupting powers to become stronger, only to tell Guts exactly what to do in order to defeat him. I genuinely laughed when Guts smiled and said, "Thanks for the tip.." :guts:

Then there's the fight with Gerico, who'll be the first of many out-standing fighters to get basically one-shot by Guts. Really a great way to express just how powerful young Guts is.. I thoroughly enjoy these moments as well. Then almost immediately afterward, we have a taste of the fight with the Count. Which, totally countering the fight with Gerico, shows us just how fragile Guts can be compared to such a powerful apostle. Even after having read all the way to current episodes, I felt like Guts might be too weak to win at this point. I could almost taste the struggle he had to go through to keep fighting. Simply awesome.

A couple other things I want to note on.

- In this volume we see Guts use a fighting stance that I don't think we see again later in the series. It's near the beginning where he crosses his arms, during the second fight with Zondark. I didn't particularly like it, though I found it served as one of the ways to show that Guts was a really skilled and trained swordsman.

- The foreshadowing here is really well done. I try to take these volumes with the least amount of discrimination as possible, and with what we learn of the Beherit, the reaction Puck has when Guts gives his little speech about ambition, the appearance of the demon baby again, and the introduction of Theresia, it all leaves a lot of mystery to be uncovered.

Though I still probably would've had a hard time becoming a true fan at this early in the series, I like to think these mysteries would've kept me going. Of course looking back on them, these volumes get better and better with each re-read.
 
Hey Deci, WB.

Deci said:
I too think it was a bit off. Actually looking back at volume 1, I'd have to say how he confronts all of these apostles is a bit inconsistent with the later volumes. Guts doesn't like to wait for "the right opportunity" to swing at an apostle, much less watch a poor helpless man die for practically no reason. Though it does serve as a helper to reader, to make you hate the Count that much more. From that perspective, like Guts getting captured to meet Puck, makes perfect sense from a story-telling view.

Actually, I think there's a subtle bit of characterization here. In this case, I think Guts did want to rescue Vargas but ultimately decided that it was impossible. That's why he showed up despite his statement to Puck. I think Guts is trying to keep people at arm's length even here and doesn't want to admit he cares even a little bit.

This is, ultimately, the set up for the creation of his Adventuring Party way way way down the line.

Deci said:
As usual I really enjoyed most of Puck's dialogue this volume. The part where he tells Vargas to live for the future and not for revenge really rings a bell with the story. His confrontation with Guts about being afraid because, like Vargas, he is also fighting a battle he can't win just really struck home for me. Of course, without the information I have from later volumes it probably wouldn't have hit me so strongly.

Yes, it's a set up that we don't see the pay off for until well after the Flash Back arc where Guts decides to return to Casca.

Deci said:
Another intriguing part is where we see Guts look at the demon baby and he sees it's head turn into Vargas'. What that's suppose to mean exactly I'm not sure, but I guess it's to show some sort of guilt that he didn't try to save the poor helpless guy.

Yeah, though in-story, I think it's just a reflection of how deeply messed up the Baby's relationship to Guts is.

Deci said:
The fight with Zondark is probably the funniest thing to happen in this volume. Almost textbook badguy, with getting defeated, then taking in corrupting powers to become stronger, only to tell Guts exactly what to do in order to defeat him. I genuinely laughed when Guts smiled and said, "Thanks for the tip.." Guts

I think the last time I saw this was the last episode of Angel: The Series.

Deci said:
Though I still probably would've had a hard time becoming a true fan at this early in the series, I like to think these mysteries would've kept me going. Of course looking back on them, these volumes get better and better with each re-read.

True story, I actually didn't see the anime first like most Berserk fans I know. I picked up the Berserk manga because I was running low on ideas for fantasy gaming and there was a huge collection of manga at my local Borders. I was totally unspoiled by this point and was hooked by the second manga for simple violence + sex + action. It wasn't until the third volume that I realized it was actually great storytelling.

Oddly, on my first read, I genuinely bought into Guts being a bad person doing a good job and accepted his comments to Puck at face value.
 
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willowhugger said:
Hey Deci, WB.

Actually, I think there's a subtle bit of characterization here. In this case, I think Guts did want to rescue Vargas but ultimately decided that it was impossible.

Hi. =)

I meant to say this is my original post, but another possibility here is he simply didn't want to fight the Count unless it was on his terms. That's strategical in itself, to have some sort of control of the environment, however in later volumes I don't think Guts would bother with such things. I still think it doesn't really fit for Guts to be worried about an ambush of no-name soldiers when he's got something far more challenging to fight afterward. More than likely the Count would've simply sat there while his army got wiped out by Guts. Also, it was important to the story that Vargas was executed, so I stand by that as the reason Miura decided not to have Guts make his stand here.

Also, in case anyone has not noticed, I believe this is the same apostle, along with Roshinu, that destroyed a large portion of the Hawks on their way to the Eclipse. So far we've had what looks like three apostles that Guts has combated that have shown up during that period. The woman apostle in the very beginning looks to be the same apostle that killed Corcus, the Snake Baron's profile was seen in the woods nearing the events at the Eclipse, and then the Count. So without even knowing it, all of these characters actually take a bigger role than we realize at first. That's just cool. >)
 
The Snake Baron, and the count especially, are both also shown at the eclipse along with the woman apostle who kills corcus.
 
Jaze1618 said:
The Snake Baron, and the count especially, are both also shown at the eclipse along with the woman apostle who kills corcus.

It's thus interesting to speculate how much is this just Guts wandering around and how much of him deliberately seeking revenge on the Hawk's killers.

OTOH, it could just be that ALL Apostles were there and thus ALL Apostles killed the Hawks.
 
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willowhugger said:
It's thus interesting to speculate how much is this just Guts wandering around and how much of him deliberately seeking revenge on the Hawk's killers.

OTOH, it could just be that ALL Apostles were there and thus ALL Apostles killed the Hawks.

Actually, he's really out to kill Griffith in specific, he hunts down apostles in hopes of either finding Griffith, or finding a way to find him. Also, there is no way for Guts to know that the Count killed the other Hawks, or that the woman apostle killed Corcus. It's merely an awesome "easter egg" that Miura had them reappear as signifigant apostles later in the manga, as I stated above.

So without even knowing it, all of these characters actually take a bigger role than we realize at first. That's just cool. >)
 
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willowhugger said:
This is actually a very good thing as it prevents the Apostles from being reduced to a bunch of one-shot villains, which is what they seemed to be from the start, that Guts exists to slay along his road to killing Griffith.

Too many Shounen manga follow this formula religiously with each new issue introducing some extremely powerful enemy with a gimmick in order for the heroes to slay them.

Funny you should mention Shounen. Here's an old quote that I found a while back. It was like finding a hidden gem or treasure chest. I absolutely love these little snippets of berserk and I wonder when the next berserk chapter is released if it won't come with a few words of Miura in YA.

Aazealh said:
Actually, Miura intended Berserk to be a shĂ´nen manga (hence Guts' name ;)), the magazine he first published it in was Animal House (besides the Prototype in Comi Comi), which later became Young Animal.

Only while drawing the actual thing, he came to realize than the tone, themes, etc. were too dark and mature, making it a seinen manga (I would like to know exactly when that occurred, and if he planned the change or just observed it as an unexpected result).

"The reward for ambition too great is self destruction" pg. 95 I wonder if Miura already had an idea for Griffith. It's nice seeing Puck's role in the Black Swordsman Arc as a way to bounce off of Guts personality and to get a better idea of the world Guts lives in. But I like Puck's current role more, now that the darkness is handled in other ways.
 
Funny you should mention Shounen. Here's an old quote that I found a while back. It was like finding a hidden gem or treasure chest. I absolutely love these little snippets of berserk and I wonder when the next berserk chapter is released if it won't come with a few words of Miura in YA.

Huh.

That explains that short little snippet comic that was included with (I think) Dark Horse Volume 24. Basically, it had Puck and a slightly similiar but different guts (this one had an Eyepatch) hunting the followers of a God of Darkness. It was a lot more fantasy and less edgy than Berserk.

But could very likely have been the PG-13 Berserk. It was the prototype for the series as I understand it.
 
The strongest moment in this volume for me is when Guts hear Vargas saying "Avenge me!" in his head knowing all Guts already has to go through for his own sake and yet people keep putting their own burdens on to him to boot. This is the first time Miura shows us Guts consience and at the same moment his attitude becomes thoroughly understandable. I can't recall what I thought the first time I read it but it doesn't matter much when my impression was already built on the Berserk Anime experience anyway.

A bit relieved to see that the Re-Read project has slowed down a little.
 
I have important question, that is directly related to volume two. Its about the cover, I'm buying some newer volumes online, but this caught my eye.

41S02PBXMPL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA240_SH20_OU01_.jpg


I notice the title text is different (not a big deal as long as the manga is intact) but I wanted to know if dark horse was the only company that published Berserk here in the states. Which, I'm kinda sure that it is. But if it isn't, I just wanted to keep a eye out, because I wanted to be consistant with one companies version. Is this another version, or just a cover change?
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Death May Die said:
I have important question, that is directly related to volume two. Its about the cover, I'm buying some newer volumes online, but this caught my eye.

41S02PBXMPL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA240_SH20_OU01_.jpg

It's an error from Amazon. That's not the good cover. They have the correct one too, if you check the other pictures available, so don't worry. You're getting the right book. :serpico:

Jaze1618 said:
I'm pretty sure thats not a dark horse version. Maybe itailan?

No, the Italian editions are different.
 
One thing that struck me as kind of odd is when Vargas tells Guts about how he was hacked up by the count, and forced to watch his wife and sons get eaten.

The panel clearly shows Vargas missing both his legs, and he's hanging by his arms above the ground, tied up strongly with rope.

Then later, he tells Guts that by using a hidden drug, he's able to feign his death and slip out of the castle AND steal the count's beherit.

How could he do all this with no legs? It's doubtful that the count had some peg legs lying around. Also, if Vargas played possum, why wouldn't the count just eat him anyway, or dispose of the body in some other gruesome fashion.

It seems to me that his escape was all too convenient, but perhaps we can assume that his escape was ordained by fate since the Beherit was destined to be used a second time by the count?

I would be interested in hearing some thoughts on this!
 
Lets see ,y thoughts on Vol. 2

I loved it when the guys are making fun of Vargas dead body, and Guts kills them and adds them to the body grave.

Zondark reminds me a lot of the creature in the Berserk DC game.

The count hands Guts' ass to himself. In the concluding fight scene up to Vol. 3.

I think the best undertone thing about the Volume is the contrast of Vargas and Guts. Guts sees Vargas as a monster, something worthless. But in the end their physical appearances are very similar, in the end they are almost the same. Motivated by revenge, beaten and scarred. I was bummed to see Vargas die, and frustrated that Guts was reluctant to even help Vargas in the first place. But its Berserk, if I would of even known that small situations would only be shadowed by other events in Berserk, I would of taken it more lightly, but in the end it really adds to the depth of the characters and story. All in all good "foundation" points.
 

Rhombaad

Video Game Time Traveler
OmegaSeamaster said:
Dahl cracks me up. He's the consummate wuss, and when Guts does away with him it's pretty funny. :ganishka:

I don't know if I'd call it funny, but it certainly illustrated what a low point Guts was at during his time as the Black Swordsman.
 
Looking at Volume 2 one last time, I realized simply, and this has probably been said before, that this would of been just as good or better than the intro to the anime. The whole count story. Seeing the counts daughter catch herself on the dragonslayer would of "hooked" views like myself for sure and left a fuller impression on what exactly your getting yourself into. I mean both intros have similarities, but the first 3 Manga's have a great vibe and pace. Maybe Miura didn't want to give away that Griffith turns on the band of the hawk, with Griffith appearing as Femto in Vol. 3. IDK.
 

Rhombaad

Video Game Time Traveler
Death May Die said:
Maybe Miura didn't want to give away that Griffith turns on the band of the hawk, with Griffith appearing as Femto in Vol. 3. IDK.

Considering Griffith is revealed as Femto in the first episode of the anime, I'd say that's not the case.
 
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