What kind of role do you think the God Hand will play in the Age of Darkness?

I've been wondering about this lately, once Griffith becomes king, what will the God Hand be doing? Will they be communicating with Griffith in some way or will they continue to stay in the shadows as far as the plot is concerned. I hope Miura begins to delve into the backstories/development of the rest of the God Hand, because it doesn't make sense that everything should just be about Griffith, since the others like void have been around alot longer.
 

Daijyashin

Berserk is Divine and Human
Re: What kind of role do you think the God Hand will play in the Age of Darkness

berserkfan said:
I've been wondering about this lately, once Griffith becomes king, what will the God Hand be doing? Will they be communicating with Griffith in some way or will they continue to stay in the shadows as far as the plot is concerned.

Well, as Slan says in her lair, after the appearance of Griffith the other members of God Hand have melted out in their favourite layers wandering as well.
Moreover Slan says that she doesn't care about the other members.
Griffith has been blessed from God to do what the hell he want. So what the God Hand should still say to him?

However it's possible that Guts and his party would face other members of God Hand if they fall in their lairs.
 

Aazealh

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berserkfan said:
I've been wondering about this lately, once Griffith becomes king, what will the God Hand be doing? Will they be communicating with Griffith in some way or will they continue to stay in the shadows as far as the plot is concerned.

I expect that with the changes that will be brought to the world they'll get more screen time, but keep in mind they were always meant to be in the background as characters. Maybe they'll do their own thing in their corner and maybe they'll cooperate to some extent, we'll see.

Daijyashin said:
Well, as Slan says in her lair, after the appearance of Griffith the other members of God Hand have melted out in their favourite layers wandering as well.

The Qliphoth wasn't really Slan's "lair" per se (she compared it to her womb), and she spoke of Sephirot, not layers.

Daijyashin said:
Griffith has been blessed from God to do what the hell he want. So what the God Hand should still say to him?

They all do as they want, it's not just Griffith's prerogative. That doesn't meant they can't interact with each other if the need presents itself.
 

Daijyashin

Berserk is Divine and Human
Aazealh said:
The Qliphoth wasn't really Slan's "lair" per se (she compared it to her womb), and she spoke of Sephirot, not layers.

Ah Ok, this time I didn't know how to expose this according to your translation, cause instead of sephirot, in the italian version we have "canali", then channel or canal, and I put layers then.


Aazealh said:
They all do as they want, it's not just Griffith's prerogative. That doesn't meant they can't interact with each other if the need presents itself.

Yes I know that members of God Hand can do what they want. I was just wondering, in case, what they should tell to Griffith is Slan says that she doesn't care about him.
 
Re: What kind of role do you think the God Hand will play in the Age of Darkness

This is just a guess but couldn't Slan appear again in front of Guts for another round but use a person to possess to try to have her fun since according to what I've seen translated Slan has her eyes on Guts, so Slan provoking him to fight her wouldn't be out of the question would it?
 

Aazealh

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Re: What kind of role do you think the God Hand will play in the Age of Darkness

Slan_wings said:
This is just a guess but couldn't Slan appear again in front of Guts for another round but use a person to possess to try to have her fun since according to what I've seen translated Slan has her eyes on Guts, so Slan provoking him to fight her wouldn't be out of the question would it?

It's possible that she'll attempt to torment him again in the future. We don't know what the God Hand's limits will be once the current battle is over, so maybe they'll be able to materialize in the world at will or maybe there will be some requirements.
 

SimplyEd

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I guess we'd all be interested in a couple of episodes dedicated to the other members of God Hand and their "hidden" agendas. I'm somewhat certain that Guts will stumble upon some of them after his visit to Elfhelm. For the record, however, i'd like to see another confrontation between Guts and Slan, seeing that they are so....invigorating. :ganishka:
 
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Xem

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Bah, Guts and Slan is just foreplay, what I wanna see is Void and Skull Knight! :carcus:
 
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Xem

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Aazealh said:
How about Griffith and Ganishka for the time being? :griff:

:ganishka:

As long as Griffith is the "receiver". :X :ganishka:

Seriously though, I'd imagine the God Hand will do what they've always done once the Age of Darkness begins. Though I'm sure their influence will be expanded very much. The Idea has more or less chosen Griffith as it's "messenger", so the concept that another one might take the front stage at some point seems unlikely.

I do hope that Skull Knight's back story will somehow be more thoroughly explained at some point, and I'm under the impression that would involve Void's history as well.
 

jackson_hurley

even the horses are cut in half!
Deci said:
I do hope that Skull Knight's back story will somehow be more thoroughly explained at some point, and I'm under the impression that would involve Void's history as well.

well the way i see it Skully is to me like the God Hand (i got it right this time aaz :) ) a character that is more in the background but a bit less than the God Hand. That doesn't mean i would not like to see more about his past but somehow i doubt we'll get the full reason how he got that apart from hints here and there. As for the God Hand i would like to see only Slan history or what she's doing sometime because she is the only that gets me everytime i see her. Of course Void would also be interesting to see but i bet he has a looong story for himself probably like Skull Knight.
 

Aazealh

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Deci said:
Seriously though, I'd imagine the God Hand will do what they've always done once the Age of Darkness begins. Though I'm sure their influence will be expanded very much. The Idea has more or less chosen Griffith as it's "messenger", so the concept that another one might take the front stage at some point seems unlikely.

About the members of the God Hand, it depends on what you mean by "doing what they've always done". Personally I wouldn't be surprised to see them take more liberties if the boundaries holding them back from the material world were lifted (not unlike what Slan did in the Qliphoth). And while Griffith is the one at the forefront right now as well as the main antagonist of the series in general, they're all messengers of the Idea of Evil in their own way.
 

Walter

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Re: What kind of role do you think the God Hand will play in the Age of Darkness

I also see the God Hand materializing in the real world as a likely side effect of the worlds merging. It makes sense, if the principles of the old world are ending, how better to launch into a new hellish era, a dark age, than having demon overlords suddenly reigning over the physical world? I think Slan's appearance in the Qliphoth nearly solidifies this possibility, since that was a state of the world that closely resembles what is now apparently happening on a major level -- the borders between worlds are thinning.
 
I hope the God Hand will get some further explanation and screen time. They're pivotal characters. I cannot see Miura failing to explain or at least shed further light onto this enigmatic group.

How will they come into play?
I don't see each of them sitting in their own private castles devouring humans. That would cheapen them.
I always imagined the Age of Darkness as this oppressive, human holocaust scenario. Where apostles and the Godhand run rampid eating and torturing mankind.
But, no, I just don't think this will happen at all. It's so cheesy, so predictable.
The reason that makes me think this way is that some apostles don't act as evil as others.
Is it possible that the God Hand and apostles will just rule without being this ultra evil regime?

I think a question that needs to be asked and thought about is, What will the Age of Darkness be like?
 
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Xem

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Aazealh said:
About the members of the God Hand, it depends on what you mean by "doing what they've always done". Personally I wouldn't be surprised to see them take more liberties if the boundaries holding them back from the material world were lifted (not unlike what Slan did in the Qliphoth). And while Griffith is the one at the forefront right now as well as the main antagonist of the series in general, they're all messengers of the Idea of Evil in their own way.

Yeah that's what I meant when I said their influence would be much expanded, that they'd have much more freedom in how they conduct their activities. Materializing in the real world though? Sounds interesting, but unlikely to me. Not in the sense of having their own bodies like Femto has anyway. I imagine them staying behind the curtians, perhaps materializing ala Slan in the Qliphoth, but for short durations to manage the course of their schemes.

Something I've been wondering about is the beherits. If the reasoning of the world is changing, perhaps their role in it will as well. They were necessary tools to bring apostles and God Hand alike onto the stage, to set up the Age of Darkness. But after that's accomplished what use do they serve? The God Hand is already assembled, so I imagine the Crimson Beherit has served it's purpose. Perhaps beherits altogether will take on another function, I know I'm stretching it a bit, but I can't imagine the Crimson Beherit would be just totally useless now.
 
Deci said:
but I can't imagine the Crimson Beherit would be just totally useless now.

It will now be used to summon THE IDEA OF EVIL!!!!11 :idea:

jk. :ganishka:
I'm a bit confused, I don't recall there being a Crimson Behelit in the physical world since Griffith used his at the Eclipse.
Imo, that makes discussing the Crimson Behelit's future importance more or less useless at this time.

Also it will be interesting to see whether or not the Godhand will be able to freely materialize in the physical world. Though I feel that having Void in the physical world would be absolutely devastating, not that the other members wouldn't be just as scary. What would stop Void from branding the hell out of everyone?? :void:
 
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Xem

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Ramen4ever said:
I'm a bit confused, I don't recall there being a Crimson Beherit in the physical world since Griffith used his at the Eclipse.
Imo, that makes discussing the Crimson Beherit's future importance more or less useless at this time.

Also it will be interesting to see whether or not the Godhand will be able to freely materialize in the physical world. Though I feel that having Void in the physical world would be absolutely devastating, not that the other members wouldn't be just as scary. What would stop Void from branding the hell out of everyone?? :void:

Yeah we haven't seen it, but does that mean it just disappeared? That doesn't seem to fit into the story that well to me.

Crimson Beherit aside, the main focus of my curiosity is beherits in general. They definitely served a purpose pre-Age of Darkness, but what is it they serve afterward? Surely they don't just disappear into thin air, and I guess it's possible they become meaningless relics, but I imagine (or perhaps like to speculate) they begin to serve a new function.

This is of course assuming that at least on some level, apostles were primarily necessary to incur the Age of Darkness. I get this understanding with the information that all apostles know about and obey the God Hand.

I also realize it's entirely possible that beherits won't change and will continue as they always have, but I don't necessarily see why it'd be needed in the Age of Darkness. Especially from the Crimson Beherit.

Lastly, I agree with you about Void and the God Hand. It would be interesting to see them materialize in the real world, but I don't think it'll happen. Surely we'll be seeing much more of them, hopefully with some history, but not in any way close that Femto has managed to materialize in anyway.
 

Walter

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Deci said:
They definitely served a purpose pre-Age of Darkness, but what is it they serve afterward? Surely they don't just disappear into thin air, and I guess it's possible they become meaningless relics, but I imagine (or perhaps like to speculate) they begin to serve a new function.
I think that's entirely possible, or at least, their influence over the world will increase. Listening to Flora talk about them, it's pretty obvious they'll have some other role to play rather than just being the catalysts for sacrificial ceremonies:

[quote author=Volume 24 translation]I know about it.
Anyone who hopes to master the path of magic does.
Beherit...
The keys that bind the depths of (hell) to reality.[/quote]
Not... exactly sure how that will play out in the future, but since they are literally foreign objects from hell occupying the physical world, I don't think they'll just "disappear" no. Guts' Beherit is shown in passing constantly, and the more I think about it, the less likely it seems it's being kept _only_ for its primary function.
 

Aazealh

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Proj2501 said:
Is it possible that the God Hand and apostles will just rule without being this ultra evil regime?

Will they actually "rule" in the sense we understand it?

Proj2501 said:
I think a question that needs to be asked and thought about is, What will the Age of Darkness be like?

Indeed, and that's anyone's guess. We don't even precisely know what the Age of Darkness is. Has it more or less started already with the plague and the Kushan invasion? Will it truly start once Griffith defeats Ganishka?

Deci said:
Materializing in the real world though? Sounds interesting, but unlikely to me. Not in the sense of having their own bodies like Femto has anyway.

I'm not sure what you're replying to here. Anyway, a very specific and complicated procedure took place in order to provide a vessel for Femto, one that is said to only happen once in a thousand years. It's doubtful that the other members of the God Hand will undergo the same treatment, but since the principles of the world are going to change, it's hard to predict exactly what they'll be able to do or not in the future.

Deci said:
I imagine them staying behind the curtians, perhaps materializing ala Slan in the Qliphoth, but for short durations to manage the course of their schemes.

I don't see how what you're saying here really differs from what I said that you quoted. And they were already doing things from behind the curtain and manifesting themselves faintly even before what happened in Albion.

Deci said:
Something I've been wondering about is the beherits. If the reasoning of the world is changing, perhaps their role in it will as well. They were necessary tools to bring apostles and God Hand alike onto the stage, to set up the Age of Darkness. But after that's accomplished what use do they serve? The God Hand is already assembled, so I imagine the Crimson Beherit has served it's purpose. Perhaps beherits altogether will take on another function, I know I'm stretching it a bit, but I can't imagine the Crimson Beherit would be just totally useless now.

First off, there may still be new apostles in the future. Second, about the crimson beherit, why wouldn't it be so? We haven't seen it since Griffith became Femto, and indeed, what use would it serve? You don't even have to think of the Age of Darkness to ask the question, but simply of the fact the God Hand is now complete. We don't know where it is (Still in the world, hidden somewhere? Back to the Abyss?), and personally I can't think of a use it'd have. Like Ramen pointed out it's been out of the story for over 20 volumes already.

Ramen4ever said:
Also it will be interesting to see whether or not the Godhand will be able to freely materialize in the physical world. Though I feel that having Void in the physical world would be absolutely devastating, not that the other members wouldn't be just as scary. What would stop Void from branding the hell out of everyone?? :void:

Well if you think about it, they were already making short appearances before Femto was even incarnated. See Conrad with the plague rats and Slan in the heretics' cave.

Deci said:
Yeah we haven't seen it, but does that mean it just disappeared? That doesn't seem to fit into the story that well to me.

What doesn't fit into the story?

Deci said:
Crimson Beherit aside, the main focus of my curiosity is beherits in general. They definitely served a purpose pre-Age of Darkness, but what is it they serve afterward? Surely they don't just disappear into thin air, and I guess it's possible they become meaningless relics, but I imagine (or perhaps like to speculate) they begin to serve a new function.

Well like I said, there could be new apostles even after Griffith establishes his kingdom. As for beherits serving a new purpose, why not? It's not impossible. I don't see what that purpose could be though.

But since we're speculating, I had this idea a while back that during the merging of the layers, beherits might somehow act as anchors in the material world, helping to pull the Abyss to the surface. A reversal of some sort compared to their role of bringing people to the God Hand's den. Just notional thinking, but it was fun to imagine at the time.

Deci said:
This is of course assuming that at least on some level, apostles were primarily necessary to incur the Age of Darkness. I get this understanding with the information that all apostles know about and obey the God Hand.

Apostles don't necessarily obey the God Hand (look at Ganishka). Sure, when Griffith came to the world they flocked to him and now they call him their master, but previously they had led their lives just doing whatever they wanted, oblivious of the God Hand's desires. Don't forget that their motto is to do whatever they want. Following him benefits them as much as it benefits him, and that's why they do it.

Walter said:
Listening to Flora talk about them, it's pretty obvious they'll have some other role to play rather than just being the catalysts for sacrificial ceremonies:

Not... exactly sure how that will play out in the future, but since they are literally foreign objects from hell occupying the physical world, I don't think they'll just "disappear" no. Guts' Beherit is shown in passing constantly, and the more I think about it, the less likely it seems it's being kept _only_ for its primary function.

That translation isn't completely accurate. Flora says the beherit is the key that connects the real world to the bottom ("deep layers") of the astral world.

Concerning what you said, I think there's two distinct elements in it. One is the fact beherits can be used for something other than their primary function. We've seen that through the various reactions Guts' beherit has had to events in the past, and through the Yobimizu no Tsurugi.

Then there's the idea that their primary function might change in the future. Now, while that could happen, I don't think that possibility is particularly obvious at this point. While beherits are very powerful entities, let us not forget where that power comes from (another quote from Flora):

"A beherit is a thing that a high spiritual being... Or a being that is more than that, and who controls the fate of humans, has sent to this world. This itself is nothing more than a stone, but the fate involved in it is up to the hands of the master who sent it."

This spells "Idea of Evil". I know I'm repeating myself, but personally, since major changes are underway (principles of the world ending, layers of the world merging), I don't think we can really predict how the established order of things will evolve, or to what extent.
 
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Xem

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Aazealh said:
I'm not sure what you're replying to here. Anyway, a very specific and complicated procedure took place in order to provide a vessel for Femto, one that is said to only happen once in a thousand years. It's doubtful that the other members of the God Hand will undergo the same treatment, but since the principles of the world are going to change, it's hard to predict exactly what they'll be able to do or not in the future.

Right it is. And I don't expect that they'll manifest in any way close that Femto has. That's all I was saying.

I don't see how what you're saying here really differs from what I said that you quoted. And they were already doing things from behind the curtain and manifesting themselves faintly even before what happened in Albion.

Simply put, I was saying that I expect that their appearances will probably continue as such, but to a much larger degree.

First off, there may still be new apostles in the future.

I did actually address that in a previous post:

I also realize it's entirely possible that beherits won't change and will continue as they always have

Second, about the crimson beherit, why wouldn't it be so? We haven't seen it since Griffith became Femto, and indeed, what use would it serve? You don't even have to think of the Age of Darkness to ask the question, but simply of the fact the God Hand is now complete. We don't know where it is (Still in the world, hidden somewhere? Back to the Abyss?), and personally I can't think of a use it'd have. Like Ramen pointed out it's been out of the story for over 20 volumes already.

That's exactly where my speculation derives from. If the crimson beherit's already served it's pre-Age of Darkness purpose, would it simply become another relic? It seems unlikely to me that it simply ceased to exist in the material world, but what we know of beherit's is obviously limited, so it's definitely possible.

Also simply because we haven't seen it in quite a while doesn't amount to much for me. How long was the main protagonist out of the story? Quite a while comparatively IMHO.

Well if you think about it, they were already making short appearances before Femto was even incarnated. See Conrad with the plague rats and Slan in the heretics' cave.

Again, I'm not disagreeing, I simply feel like it will continue as it has in the past, just to a much larger degree.

What doesn't fit into the story?

I don't think the fact that it hasn't been seen yet makes a viable theory that it simply "disappeared". I don't imagine things in the Berserk universe just vanish like that. There's most likely a method behind it, and I hypothesize that it will possibly serve a new function.

As for beherits serving a new purpose, why not? It's not impossible. I don't see what that purpose could be though.

That's all I was saying.

But since we're speculating, I had this idea a while back that during the merging of the layers, beherits might somehow act as anchors in the material world, helping to pull the Abyss to the surface. A reversal of some sort compared to their role of bringing people to the God Hand's den. Just notional thinking, but it was fun to imagine at the time.

A reversal? I don't fully understand, could you elaborate?

Apostles don't necessarily obey the God Hand (look at Ganishka). Sure, when Griffith came to the world they flocked to him and now they call him their master, but previously they had led their lives just doing whatever they wanted, oblivious of the God Hand's desires. Don't forget that their motto is to do whatever they want. Following him benefits them as much as it benefits him, and that's why they do it.

Once again, I agree, though it's not quite the point I was trying to make. Ganishka knows that he shouldn't oppose Griffith, and that by doing so is in direct opposition to what an apostle should do. However without even realizing it, he's still doing exactly what was needed to incur the Age of Darkness, thus he still serves his purpose as an apostle in the Idea of Evil's overall scheme to incur the Age of Darkness.

Not entirely the point I was trying to make.
 

Aazealh

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Deci said:
And I don't expect that they'll manifest in any way close that Femto has. That's all I was saying.

I don't think anybody said they would though, which was the idea I got from your response. Anyway, it actually depends on what you mean by manifesting themselves "like Femto". I don't think they'll go through the same ceremony he did like I already said, but if you just mean appearing as physical beings, then I'll have to disagree. After what we've seen of Slan in the Qliphoth, I wouldn't rule out the possibility for them to appear in a similar way down the line.

Deci said:
Simply put, I was saying that I expect that their appearances will probably continue as such, but to a much larger degree.

Well if it's to a much larger degree, it's not really the same as before, now is it? :void:

Deci said:
I did actually address that in a previous post

That does not invalidate my response to you though.

Deci said:
That's exactly where my speculation derives from. If the crimson beherit's already served it's pre-Age of Darkness purpose, would it simply become another relic? It seems unlikely to me that it simply ceased to exist in the material world, but what we know of beherit's is obviously limited, so it's definitely possible.

But why are you talking about the Age of Darkness? Your question should be: "The crimson beherit has served its pre-complete God Hand purpose, so has it become another relic?" It's a question that people have been asking themselves for a long time and that I think is different from your inquiry about what will happen to the other beherits in the future.

Also, don't forget that the last time we saw it, it wasn't in the material world anymore. It was with Griffith when the giant hand closed around him and he was transformed.

Deci said:
Also simply because we haven't seen it in quite a while doesn't amount to much for me. How long was the main protagonist out of the story? Quite a while comparatively IMHO.

Uh, the main protagonist was never out of the story. I imagine you're talking about Griffith, who's the main antagonist. He's not the focus of the story, so I'm not sure that proves much, but even so he was never out of it for more than four volumes in a row.

Deci said:
I don't think the fact that it hasn't been seen yet makes a viable theory that it simply "disappeared". I don't imagine things in the Berserk universe just vanish like that. There's most likely a method behind it, and I hypothesize that it will possibly serve a new function.

That it "simply disappeared" is the way you choose to put it, but the circumstances certainly are a little more specific than that. Anyway, the fact it hasn't been seen or mentioned since volume 12 as well as the fact it has no immediate use from what we know of it does tend to imply that it's not going to have a major role in the story anytime soon.

Deci said:
That's all I was saying.

So, what new function do you think they could serve? I don't mind the idea but I'm curious to know what you're thinking of.

Deci said:
A reversal? I don't fully understand, could you elaborate?

From bringing people from the material world to the God Hand, to bringing the Abyss to the material world.

Deci said:
Once again, I agree, though it's not quite the point I was trying to make. Ganishka knows that he shouldn't oppose Griffith, and that by doing so is in direct opposition to what an apostle should do. However without even realizing it, he's still doing exactly what was needed to incur the Age of Darkness, thus he still serves his purpose as an apostle in the Idea of Evil's overall scheme to incur the Age of Darkness.

Not entirely the point I was trying to make.

Well that's not what you were saying. You talked about apostles obeying the God Hand, so I replied to that.
 
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Xem

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Aazealh said:
I don't think anybody said they would though, which was the idea I got from your response. Anyway, it actually depends on what you mean by manifesting themselves "like Femto". I don't think they'll go through the same ceremony he did like I already said, but if you just mean appearing as physical beings, then I'll have to disagree. After what we've seen of Slan in the Qliphoth, I wouldn't rule out the possibility for them to appear in a similar way down the line.

I think we're repeating ourselves here, but yes I don't disagree.

Well if it's to a much larger degree, it's not really the same as before, now is it? :void:

The same as before, but to a much larger degree.

Sorry if I'm not so good with words, but I figured you'd understand what that means. Like two people can be successful, but one to a larger degree. Two God Hand can materialize, but one is to a larger degree.

That does not invalidate my response to you though.

Nope it definitely does not. It just seemed redundant.

But why are you talking about the Age of Darkness? Your question should be: "The crimson beherit has served its pre-complete God Hand purpose, so has it become another relic?" It's a question that people have been asking themselves for a long time and that I think is different from your inquiry about what will happen to the other beherits in the future.

Also, don't forget that the last time we saw it, it wasn't in the material world anymore. It was with Griffith when the giant hand closed around him and he was transformed.

Ah, I didn't even think that at all. =) Actually looking back I can't even remember seeing the crimson beherit once the giant hand appeared. Looks like I need to reread Berserk once again. =D

I talk about the Age of Darkness simply because I wonder about the nature of apostles/God Hand and beherits. I speculate that the they are/were necessary to cause the Age of Darkness to be brought about, so once it has arrived I theorize that perhaps their purpose will change as well.

Uh, the main protagonist was never out of the story. I imagine you're talking about Griffith, who's the main antagonist. He's not the focus of the story, so I'm not sure that proves much, but even so he was never out of it for more than four volumes in a row.

Hehe, as I laid in bed the night I made the post I was afraid I said protagonist, you are right, it's antagonist. Sorry about that. Though I have to disagree that Griffith/Femto is not the main focus of the story. I feel that Berserk needs both; a protagonist and an antagonist. Guts and Griffith are both necessary for the story to continue.

Either way it was a bad example on my part. All I was saying is I don't think the absence of a beherit is a good enough reason to theorize that one no longer exists in the story.

That it "simply disappeared" is the way you choose to put it, but the circumstances certainly are a little more specific than that. Anyway, the fact it hasn't been seen or mentioned since volume 12 as well as the fact it has no immediate use from what we know of it does tend to imply that it's not going to have a major role in the story anytime soon.

Anytime soon? I didn't ever imply that it would.

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if it never showed up again, but obviously I think we'd all like further information on beherit's in general. Perhaps there's more to the crimson beherit then we realize.

So, what new function do you think they could serve? I don't mind the idea but I'm curious to know what you're thinking of.

I've racked my brain over this question since you've asked it. I really never thought about what it might be, I just theorized that they might serve a new purpose. I like your idea about their role being reversed, however.

I did a little research on the word "beherit" itself, and came up with some interesting stuff. From the little understanding I have it has a basic concept of turning objects into greater things, with something of a demonic tone to it. Pretty frickin' vague I know. I think I'm going to hold off on a theory until I've had some more time to think about it.

More than likely I'll start a new thread if I come up with a theory I find realistic.
 

Aazealh

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Deci said:
The same as before, but to a much larger degree.

Sorry if I'm not so good with words, but I figured you'd understand what that means. Like two people can be successful, but one to a larger degree. Two God Hand can materialize, but one is to a larger degree.

I understand what you mean, it's just that it doesn't make much sense to me. It's probably a simple communication problem. For instance, what do you mean by "materialize to a larger degree"? Anyway, if their grasp on the world is made stronger and the limits of what they can do are loosened, then I don't think it should be called the "same as before". Or are you just saying that they won't be incarnated like Griffith was?

Deci said:
I talk about the Age of Darkness simply because I wonder about the nature of apostles/God Hand and beherits. I speculate that the they are/were necessary to cause the Age of Darkness to be brought about, so once it has arrived I theorize that perhaps their purpose will change as well.

But as far as we know the purpose of the crimson beherit was only to create members of the God Hand, and that was accomplished a while back (and it disappeared in the process). It's a different case from that of the other beherits, or of the apostles.

Deci said:
Though I have to disagree that Griffith/Femto is not the main focus of the story. I feel that Berserk needs both; a protagonist and an antagonist. Guts and Griffith are both necessary for the story to continue.

There have been and there still are other antagonists in Berserk. The fact Griffith is sometimes unmentioned for a while like you pointed out only reinforces the fact that he's not the main focus of the story. Guts is. That doesn't mean Griffith isn't important, but he's not the main character.

Deci said:
Either way it was a bad example on my part. All I was saying is I don't think the absence of a beherit is a good enough reason to theorize that one no longer exists in the story.

Ok. Its prolonged absence, lack of apparent utility and the circumstances of its disappearance make it reasonable not to expect it to play a major role in the future though. At least I think so.

Deci said:
I did a little research on the word "beherit" itself, and came up with some interesting stuff. From the little understanding I have it has a basic concept of turning objects into greater things, with something of a demonic tone to it.

Is that so? The word's original meaning is rather obscure if not inexistent, and that's the reason Miura chose it in the first place. We know that it's a name for the devil in the Syriac language, but I've never heard anything about "a basic concept of turning objects into greater things". If you have any sources on the subject I'll gladly hear them.

As for your theory about a possible new purpose, it's up to you. The reason I asked is because I've always believed that people should think their speculation through and push their hypotheses to the end in order to make them the most interesting and foolproof possible.
 
X

Xem

Guest
Aazealh said:
I understand what you mean, it's just that it doesn't make much sense to me. It's probably a simple communication problem. For instance, what do you mean by "materialize to a larger degree"? Anyway, if their grasp on the world is made stronger and the limits of what they can do are loosened, then I don't think it should be called the "same as before". Or are you just saying that they won't be incarnated like Griffith was?

They won't be incarnated like Griffith was, I think that's obvious. I was saying that I think they'll be able to manifest easily, ala Slan in the Qliphoth.

But as far as we know the purpose of the crimson beherit was only to create members of the God Hand, and that was accomplished a while back (and it disappeared in the process). It's a different case from that of the other beherits, or of the apostles.

Yeah, but I'm thinking that perhaps their purpose will change. I'm trying to imagine what it would be but haven't gotten my thoughts fully together on the matter.

Is that so? The word's original meaning is rather obscure if not inexistent, and that's the reason Miura chose it in the first place. We know that it's a name for the devil in the Syriac language, but I've never heard anything about "a basic concept of turning objects into greater things". If you have any sources on the subject I'll gladly hear them.

Well my research was more a conversation I had with a friend on the phone, the only information I can find on the internet comes from wikipedia, but we all know how reliable that information is. I can't remember everything, but the description wiki gave seemed vaguely accurate.

from wiki: "a Great Duke of Hell, powerful and terrible, and has twenty-six legions of demons under his command. He tells things of the past, present and future with true answers; he can also turn all metals into gold, give dignities to men and confirm them.

He is depicted as a soldier wearing red clothes, a golden crown, and riding a red horse; according to other grimoires his skin is red too.

Books on the subject tell that he is called according to whom invokes him, being called Berith by the Jews"


Doesn't really help much at all. Especially since the name more commonly used is Berith. =/

As for your theory about a possible new purpose, it's up to you. The reason I asked is because I've always believed that people should think their speculation through and push their hypotheses to the end in order to make them the most interesting and foolproof possible.

When I get more time this is probably what I'll do.
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Deci said:
They won't be incarnated like Griffith was, I think that's obvious. I was saying that I think they'll be able to manifest easily, ala Slan in the Qliphoth.

Ok then. I thought you were saying you didn't think so. Like I said earlier myself, I believe that possibility to be relatively likely.

Deci said:
Yeah, but I'm thinking that perhaps their purpose will change. I'm trying to imagine what it would be but haven't gotten my thoughts fully together on the matter.

My point though is that the crimson beherit shouldn't be grouped with the normal ones because its purpose isn't the same.

Deci said:
Well my research was more a conversation I had with a friend on the phone, the only information I can find on the internet comes from wikipedia, but we all know how reliable that information is. I can't remember everything, but the description wiki gave seemed vaguely accurate.

from wiki: "a Great Duke of Hell, powerful and terrible, and has twenty-six legions of demons under his command. He tells things of the past, present and future with true answers; he can also turn all metals into gold, give dignities to men and confirm them.

He is depicted as a soldier wearing red clothes, a golden crown, and riding a red horse; according to other grimoires his skin is red too.

Books on the subject tell that he is called according to whom invokes him, being called Berith by the Jews"


Doesn't really help much at all. Especially since the name more commonly used is Berith. =/

I see, taken from this article then: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berith

The problem is that nowhere in the book quoted as a source for that article is made any mention of the name "Beherit". Here's the full, original paragraph in the book:

The Book of the Goetia of Solomon the King said:
BERITH.--The Twenty-eighth Spirit in Order, as Solomon bound them, is named Berith. He is a Mighty, Great, and Terrible Duke. He hath two other Names given unto him by men of later times, viz.: BEALE, or BEAL, and BOFRY or BOLFRY. He appeareth in the Form of a Soldier with Red Clothing, riding upon a Red Horse, and having a Crown of Gold upon his head. He giveth true answers, Past, Present, and to Come. Thou must make use of a Ring in calling him forth, as is before spoken of regarding Beleth. 3 He can turn all metals into Gold. He can give Dignities, and can confirm them unto Man. He speaketh with a very clear and subtle Voice. He governeth 26 Legions of Spirits. His Seal is this, etc.

I'm afraid a simple slight resemblance between the two names isn't enough to assert that they're merely a variation of one another. Especially since the proposed origin isn't the same at all.
 
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