Author Topic: Episode 300  (Read 33761 times)

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Offline MaN

Re: Episode 300
« Reply #125 on: December 02, 2008, 07:40:35 PM »
I'm sure Miura appreciates his impatient, unfaithful fans best of all  :void:

I guess your knee-jerk reaction only signifies your faithfulness to Berserk.

All I meant was that if the conditions are really that dire that all the awesome apostles can't stop the chibishkas then one would have expected Griffith to have joined the fight by now. A heroic commander would do that. Of course I don't think Griffith gives a damn about any of his minions or the soldiers. Also the real reason is because its in line with "best fighter vs the best fighter matchup". Miura is saving Griffith and his true form for Ganishka himself.

I am sticking to the part about the awkwardness of Irvine's apostle form though  :guts: 
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Re: Episode 300
« Reply #126 on: December 02, 2008, 10:56:31 PM »
My take on Griffith getting soldiers in on the action was to get them to be involved so that they can sort of forget about the apostles, demons and all the carnage. Otherwise as some others have said.. I doubt they can make a difference in this war of demons.

I don't agree. The humans did a good job taking out at least a few of the Chibinishka's totally on their own. Griffith isn't one to risk human life unless he thinks it's necessary. Not to mention, Irvine and Sonia did a fine job convincing the people that these apostles weren't necessarily bad.

Offline Scorpio

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Re: Episode 300
« Reply #127 on: December 03, 2008, 08:47:34 PM »
Griffith isn't one to risk human life unless he thinks it's necessary.

I'm not sure he really cares, to be honest. As long as the Pontiff and other key backers survive, what are the lives of a few soldiers and commoners?

Offline Ramen4ever

Re: Episode 300
« Reply #128 on: December 03, 2008, 11:18:35 PM »
I'm not sure he really cares, to be honest. As long as the Pontiff and other key backers survive, what are the lives of a few soldiers and commoners?

If Griffith did not care about the population / commoners even in the slightest then I doubt anyone would have made it out of Wyndham alive. If we consider the fact that the people's dreams gave them guidance and allowed for the surviving population of Wyndham to escape. And if it was indeed Griffith responsible for everyone's dreams then he may care to at least some degree. Also the "key backers" are very select.. especially from the nobles. Considering that despite Griffith and his armies close proximity to the event, they did not demonstrate any particular effort in attempting to save the nobles and members of the Holy See Alliance. If it wasn't for Guts and co those people would likely all be dead.

Offline Scorpio

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Re: Episode 300
« Reply #129 on: December 03, 2008, 11:43:37 PM »
Quote
If it wasn't for Guts and co those people would likely all be dead.

But Guts "happened" to be there, and also "happened" to move on to land the final blow on Fog Ganishka.

Anyway, I'd be surprised if the lives of the common man really mattered to him, as long as at the end of the day he is seen as a mythical savior. Though I stand by what I said, I could also see that risking people's lives willy-nilly would be pointless and hurt his cause, especially when things have a way of falling nicely into place.

Offline Shadax

Re: Episode 300
« Reply #130 on: December 04, 2008, 12:13:13 AM »
I don't agree. The humans did a good job taking out at least a few of the Chibinishka's totally on their own. Griffith isn't one to risk human life unless he thinks it's necessary. Not to mention, Irvine and Sonia did a fine job convincing the people that these apostles weren't necessarily bad.

I personally think that this entire battle is just for show. Griffith's main objective here really doesn't seem to be to save the world from Ganishka. I think that if Griffith really wanted him dead, Ganishka would have been fodder a couple of volumes ago and everything that has happened leading up to this and this event itself could have been prevented.

Offline iamdani

Re: Episode 300
« Reply #131 on: December 04, 2008, 01:01:31 AM »
Only a while ago people were bitchin at the long break, seems like yesterday.

It's a good time to be a Berserk fan.

Thanks for the scans.
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Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 300
« Reply #132 on: December 04, 2008, 01:10:04 AM »
If following Berserk episode-by-episode for 8 years has taught me anything, it's that people are going to bitch about the series no matter what. They'll find something to pick on and not like, regardless of the circumstances.

Focusing on  :guts:? : Not enough  :griff:!
Focusing on  :griff:? : Where's  :guts:?!
How long til they get to the boat? : When are they going to get off this damned boat?!
Lots of action sequences : Too much action, where's the character development?
Character development sequences: boooorrring, where's the ACTION?!
We don't know enough about the apostles' apostle forms. : I don't like the new apostle forms.
Miura delivers 6 episodes back to back then takes a 4 week break? : These breaks are out of control!

I've found that it's really best to reserve judgement on any new element until we see how Miura incorporates it in the overall story. I've put my own foot in my mouth on many occasions, including dissing Schierke upon her introduction, only to be put to shame by the awesome way she's been incorporated into the series.

Poor Miura just can't catch a break. Bad pun intended.
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Offline MaN

Re: Episode 300
« Reply #133 on: December 04, 2008, 01:26:22 PM »
I personally think that this entire battle is just for show.
Yup. How can one feel like a hero if there is no one to adore you like one. How can one be the savior without the saved to acknowledge your 'sacrifices'. I think if one word could be used to describe Griffith then its Ego.   

I don't like the new apostle forms.
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Offline Griffith

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Re: Episode 300
« Reply #134 on: December 04, 2008, 07:44:55 PM »
People cast a lot of negative assertions on Griffith considering he's been a completely neutral enigma since his reincarnation. Trying to boil everything down to him being a big asshole doesn't adequately explain what's gone on since volume 23, including this situation. Griffith may ultimately be evil in nature, but he and even his top Apostles have clearly shown themselves to be more complex than that.

Offline Scorpio

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Re: Episode 300
« Reply #135 on: December 04, 2008, 09:12:31 PM »
I'm not trying to boil him down to just a big asshole, but because of what he is now I personally think he's apathetic to causes that don't benefit him or his aims. My view is he wouldn't bat an eye if he lost a fair portion of human soldiers to mini Ganishkas as long as he was victorious and was still seen as the big hero. Do I think that makes him an asshole at the end of the day?  Well, yeah.

Offline Griffith

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Re: Episode 300
« Reply #136 on: December 04, 2008, 10:02:33 PM »
I don't know what Griffith is. He's a God Hand reincarnated, but what do you or I really know about that or what it inherently entails? I've read every episode and I don't really know what that means as far as what's inside Griffith's head. The only way to extricate a meaning then would be to observe his behavior and come to a conclusion, and so far, it's been rather vague and inconclusive. Since volume 22, he's shown very little, it was basically our only internal glimpse of him. So, people are interpreting things based on assumptions, which I think go beyond the obvious, that he's the Hawk of Darkness, because even Apostles get respect for their honorable qualities.

As for his soldiers and sending them to die in battle, when did this become a moral issue? Is that what Miura is trying to show us here, or are we reading into it a little bit? We don't even know that Griffith intended to involve them at all until Sonia acted independently, and it might simply be necessary turn for the battle. Should he bite his lip first to show how much he cares? Which, I agree with you, he probably doesn't, though why would he? If he's not human, why judge him by human moral standards at all, good or bad. That's my point, everything he does is seen through this negative moral prism instead of just being taken for what it is. If he does something evil, we'll certainly see it when it happens, so we don't have to read into everything that way until then.

Anyway, it's not even what you're saying here that bothers me, it's a fair assumption; but the more petty kind of assertions about any little thing get annoying:

"Why's Griffith ride a horse if he's so powerful?"

"Probably because he likes to torture animals!"

Yeah, and he leaves the toilet seat up, doesn't put the cap back on the toothpaste, and ate the last sweet cake. =)

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 300
« Reply #137 on: December 04, 2008, 10:06:27 PM »
I wouldn't say roots, but if you look at them to me they look a lot like branches, call me crazy but I definitely think they're tree related for sure, they look like branches (in my opinion) and it would fit with Irvines man of nature/hunter motif.

Well by "needles" I meant narrow, pointy things in general, call them thorns if you prefer. I was the first to post that I thought they looked tree-related, so I don't need to be told about it now. And you know, pointy appendages happen to grow on various plants, including trees. And to branch off one another, in some cases. :carcus:


My point was just that I found them too pointy to be roots. Now, why don't we focus on the real questions? Them being: what they really are (because I somehow don't find it likely that he shoots acorns), and how he shoots them.

My take on Griffith getting soldiers in on the action was to get them to be involved so that they can sort of forget about the apostles, demons and all the carnage.

After Sonia's intervention and the way the soldiers were pumped up, putting them to work was really the only logical thing to do. I don't think they're going to forget about anything because of it, but at least they're in good spirit and aren't doubting Griffith anymore. Besides, now that they're defending themselves against the few critters that manage to slip past the front line, all the apostles can fully concentrate on wiping the enemies out.

It could also be another reason for Griffith to look pretty and not move a freaking muscle in this fight for as looooooooooong as possible

He's actually getting more action now that he did before when he was just watching the apostles fight.

All I meant was that if the conditions are really that dire that all the awesome apostles can't stop the chibishkas then one would have expected Griffith to have joined the fight by now.

But the conditions aren't dire. It looks like you don't understand what's going on, or why Sonia did what she did.

If Griffith did not care about the population / commoners even in the slightest then I doubt anyone would have made it out of Wyndham alive.

Except what's the point of a city without inhabitants? And I don't think Scorpio meant that he doesn't care at all.

On a similar note, like it matters to Griffith if people are nobles or commoners. Don't you guys remember Locus' words at the end of episode 291? In truth, Griffith can make it so people survive without necessarily deeply caring about them. Just like he's not necessarily out to kill them all. Simply said, we're not limited to a choice between two extremes here. Like the eponymous poster just pointed out, since his incarnation Griffith has been a total mystery. For the most part we have no idea what he thinks, feels, or plans to do. In fact he barely shows any facial expression at all these days, it's rather impressive.

But Guts "happened" to be there, and also "happened" to move on to land the final blow on Fog Ganishka.

It's not something Griffith himself could have planned though (unless we assume he's omniscient and omnipotent).

Offline Guts' intestines

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Re: Episode 300
« Reply #138 on: December 04, 2008, 11:26:17 PM »
Well by "needles" I meant narrow, pointy things in general, call them thorns if you prefer. I was the first to post that I thought they looked tree-related, so I don't need to be told about it now. And you know, pointy appendages happen to grow on various plants, including trees. And to branch off one another, in some cases. :carcus:

Oh, ok like pine needles or needles on a lot of plants, gotcha. When you mentioned needles I thought you were going away from your original tree root idea, and I meant to say I wouldn't say roots either, but that I definitely think that they are tree parts, branches imo.

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Re: Episode 300
« Reply #139 on: December 06, 2008, 09:07:15 AM »
I believe that Griffith hated that people had to die for his dream before, and he hates it now. That doesn't mean it's going to interfere with his goal, but he' definitely not going to clumsily sacrifice human life. He doesn't believe in human life being wasted, so his decision to involve the army is not for show.

Looking at the latest episode, we can tell the humans weren't for show, they actually accomplished something. And at no cost to human life. So that makes it a wise choice on Griffiths' part imo.

Griffith is still Griffith, despite Femto or the (maybe) Moonlight Child, don't pretend like he's a different person imo.

Offline fuxberg

Re: Episode 300
« Reply #140 on: December 06, 2008, 11:16:17 AM »
I just think he's trying to pass as the good guy, and good guys care about other people.

And if you get to be the "king" and have no followers, then it doesn't make much sense does it?

Offline Slime_Beherit

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Re: Episode 300
« Reply #141 on: December 06, 2008, 06:10:30 PM »
Griffith is still Griffith, despite Femto or the (maybe) Moonlight Child, don't pretend like he's a different person imo.

But he is a different person now, wasn't that the whole reason why he visited Guts at the hill with the swords, it was to make sure he didn't have feelings swaying him away from his ultimate goal. If Griffith were ever to save his soldiers its to further or insure his goals not because he feels bad about it.

Offline creampuff_war

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Re: Episode 300
« Reply #142 on: December 07, 2008, 12:16:39 AM »
But he is a different person now, wasn't that the whole reason why he visited Guts at the hill with the swords, it was to make sure he didn't have feelings swaying him away from his ultimate goal. If Griffith were ever to save his soldiers its to further or insure his goals not because he feels bad about it.

I was about to post a similar reply. It seems the only reason Griff is "evil" is b/c of his connection to the god hand, and that he totally destroyed the well-beloved hawks. Thus far he's done nothing but save the the people of Midland from a foreign tyrant (who is also pretty evil).
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Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 300
« Reply #143 on: December 07, 2008, 01:48:46 AM »
Let's not forget Griff sent his monsters to kill a sweet little old lady living in a treehouse.  :judo:
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Offline hanafubuku

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Re: Episode 300
« Reply #144 on: December 07, 2008, 05:37:33 AM »
It seems the only reason Grif is "evil" is b/c of his connection to the god hand
Being an apostle is more than enough of a qualification for being classified as evil much less being a member of the God Hand.

Oh, on this note, Ganishka must be one of the good guys than if he's goin against Femto.  He's an apostle, but he's dukin it with a member of the God Hand! :ganishka:
« Last Edit: December 07, 2008, 06:01:33 AM by hanafubuku »
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Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 300
« Reply #145 on: December 07, 2008, 07:35:52 AM »
Oh, on this note, Ganishka must be one of the good guys than if he's goin against Femto. 
Nah, it's like Guts said. It's a fight between monsters.  :guts:
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Offline hanafubuku

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Re: Episode 300
« Reply #146 on: December 07, 2008, 08:13:39 PM »
Nah, it's like Guts said. It's a fight between monsters.  :guts:

Wouldn't it be a super big twist (cause it is so unlikly) if Ganishka ending up beating up and replacing Griffith as the bad guy!?  Ganishka to Femto: "HAH! Obviously I'm larger now so I pee farther, take that!" :isidro:
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Offline Scorpio

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Re: Episode 300
« Reply #147 on: December 07, 2008, 10:47:30 PM »
Wouldn't it be a super big twist (cause it is so unlikly) if Ganishka ending up beating up and replacing Griffith as the bad guy!?  Ganishka to Femto: "HAH! Obviously I'm larger now so I pee farther, take that!" :isidro:

Ganishka may be able to pee further, but I'd guess Griffith's calligraphy is top notch.  You need to consider all the factors before you can truly decide who is best.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 300
« Reply #148 on: December 09, 2008, 09:39:00 PM »
I believe that Griffith hated that people had to die for his dream before, and he hates it now.

Since Femto's incarnation I haven't seen anything implying that he even knows what "hate" means. He has no reason to let people die uselessly, but I don't think it keeps him up at night either. Honestly he doesn't look very concerned about anything.

Looking at the latest episode, we can tell the humans weren't for show, they actually accomplished something. And at no cost to human life. So that makes it a wise choice on Griffiths' part imo.

What choice? Sonia's the one that got them all worked up. Griffith simply went with the flow, which seemed the wisest decision he had available.

Griffith is still Griffith, despite Femto or the (maybe) Moonlight Child, don't pretend like he's a different person imo.

If you're implying that Griffith isn't much different now from what he was during the Golden Age arc, then I'll have to disagree. Griffith is Femto in the transformed body of the Demon Child. There's no denying that. He looks the same and in some ways he is, yet he's also different, and more than a little.

It seems the only reason Griff is "evil" is b/c of his connection to the god hand, and that he totally destroyed the well-beloved hawks. Thus far he's done nothing but save the the people of Midland from a foreign tyrant (who is also pretty evil).

Well the reason we can be so sure that he's inherently "evil" is because it's been made clear by the author. He makes the Brand bleed and all that, you know? It's his nature. But as far as his actions go, he's definitely been irreproachable so far. Maybe a little too much to be above suspicion. :void: