Author Topic: Episode 301  (Read 54201 times)

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Offline Deviance

Re: Episode 301
« Reply #125 on: December 19, 2008, 01:19:06 AM »
I still hope that Ganishka does something monstrous before he bites it... like killing many many humans on Griffith's side, and spawning more Ganishka-miniatures, while battling Griffith.
Right now, Ganishka seems awfully passive. Or these Mini-Ganiskha-thingies are really really fast.

Online jackson_hurley

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Re: Episode 301
« Reply #126 on: December 19, 2008, 02:00:31 AM »
I still hope that Ganishka does something monstrous before he bites it... like killing many many humans on Griffith's side, and spawning more Ganishka-miniatures, while battling Griffith.
Right now, Ganishka seems awfully passive. Or these Mini-Ganiskha-thingies are really really fast.

Yeah well I think he stopped in his tracks but then I'm not sure since the action has been centered towards the fight. We'll have to see. But I figure that after that batch of chibishkas Griffith will already be near Ganishka to finish him off or something like that.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 301
« Reply #127 on: December 19, 2008, 08:52:35 AM »
I still hope that Ganishka does something monstrous before he bites it... like killing many many humans on Griffith's side, and spawning more Ganishka-miniatures, while battling Griffith.
Right now, Ganishka seems awfully passive. Or these Mini-Ganiskha-thingies are really really fast.

Same here, I'd like to see him at the center of the action. I'm pretty sure our prayers will be answered with the next episode. :guts: The reason the fight's happening in two parts (first the critters, then the big guy) though is simply because anything he'd do would completely annihilate Griffith's army, humans and apostles alike. And similarly, I can't imagine them doing anything to him.

But I figure that after that batch of chibishkas Griffith will already be near Ganishka to finish him off or something like that.

Hmm, I wonder if being near Ganishka is needed at all. It's not like Griffith is going to stab him in the toe with his saber or anything.

Online jackson_hurley

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Re: Episode 301
« Reply #128 on: December 19, 2008, 12:09:01 PM »
Hmm, I wonder if being near Ganishka is needed at all. It's not like Griffith is going to stab him in the toe with his saber or anything.

True. But I figure he might be a bit closer, though I'm not sure how close he is right now anyway! One way or another I know it's gonna be awesome like always.

Offline HawaiianStallion

Re: Episode 301
« Reply #129 on: December 20, 2008, 10:04:18 PM »
Long time since I last posted on here but this episode was too crazy for me not to come back. I'm really loving the imagery and story Miura has been giving us with the episodes since Ganishka's transformation. Some of the coolest battle scenes in the entire series hands down... at least in my opinion.

However I'm not really sold on the Apostles and humans getting along. Apostles are just too outside of the human experience anymore to really live alongside humans. I mean they're basically given incredibly powerful bodies with monstrous abilities at the cost of their humanity (and a love one in the process). Im just not sold that a soldier helping them out once is going to cause them to turn over a new leaf; I dont even see it being the first step in a long transformation.  These are truly evil beings led by gods whose intentions are more than most mortal beings can wrap their heads around. The most I see happening is the apostles being grateful, maybe oddly chummy with the humans, but I dont see them stopping their raping, murdering ways.

Honestly I believe this is all part of Griffith's plan. What best way to get humanity to follow him then make angels out of monsters and get them all chummy with each other.

Offline Ramen4ever

Re: Episode 301
« Reply #130 on: December 20, 2008, 10:21:59 PM »
Long time since I last posted on here

Welcome back.

The most I see happening is the apostles being grateful, maybe oddly chummy with the humans, but I dont see them stopping their raping, murdering ways.

Honestly I believe this is all part of Griffith's plan. What best way to get humanity to follow him then make angels out of monsters and get them all chummy with each other.

They can't really change their nature. Though I do believe that being assisted by inferior beings or simply the fact that the humans aren't demonstrating too much fear towards the apostles.. could be absolutely mind altering. I mean if your a monster and suddenly the humans that would normally fear you.. choose to help you and in a way even accept you, that would be quite a shock. Same goes for the humans when the monsters that they would normally consider absolutely evil, are risking their lives to fight and in some cases protect them.
It might not change anything in the end but it's still quite amazing. I'm going to take a leap of faith here and assume that it all comes down to what Griffith wants. After all, if (for example) he wants them to get along.. I doubt there are any apostles in his army that would try to oppose his will.

Here's the real question, have all the humans in this battle sealed their fates? By interacting with the apostles and Griffith. By that I mean are they now guaranteed to end up in the Vortex of Souls?

Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 301
« Reply #131 on: December 20, 2008, 10:25:07 PM »
Here's the real question, have all the humans in this battle sealed their fates? By interacting with the apostles and Griffith. By that I mean are they now guaranteed to end up in the Vortex of Souls?
Well, they weren't part of some ceremony or anything.  They haven't been branded, nor have then undergone any changes, other than lending a hand to their alllies.

Humans have been "interacting" with Griffith since they joined the Falcons.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Ramen4ever

Re: Episode 301
« Reply #132 on: December 20, 2008, 10:41:59 PM »
Humans have been "interacting" with Griffith since they joined the Falcons.

Yes and we've seen Griffith interacting with the spirits/souls of the dead after battle. More specifically when Mule joined the Hawks. I don't recall any proof that they ended up in the VoS but it's more likely than any other place.. considering that Griffith was involved. They weren't branded or part of a ceremony either. All they did was serve with the Band of the Hawk. By that notion would everyone else currently involved also share a similar fate? 

Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 301
« Reply #133 on: December 20, 2008, 10:49:19 PM »
Yes and we've seen Griffith interacting with the spirits/souls of the dead after battle. More specifically when Mule joined the Hawks. I don't recall any proof that they ended up in the VoS but it's more likely than any other place.. considering that Griffith was involved. They weren't branded or part of a ceremony either. All they did was serve with the Band of the Hawk. By that notion would everyone else currently involved also share a similar fate? 
I'm really not following your line of reasoning here. So, because Griffith makes a spectacle show of the recently-departed souls as they're still lingering on the earth (which we already knew they did), that consigns them to the same fate as apostles and branded? I see no evidence to suggest this. And I don't see that anything has changed here. They're still humans.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Ramen4ever

Re: Episode 301
« Reply #134 on: December 20, 2008, 10:56:02 PM »
I'm really not following your line of reasoning here. So, because Griffith makes a spectacle show of the recently-departed souls as they're still lingering on the earth (which we already knew they did), that consigns them to the same fate as apostles and branded? I see no evidence to suggest this. And I don't see that anything has changed here. They're still humans.

Well I didn't mean the same fate as Apostles or the branded. I was thinking more along the lines of the same fate as Vargas' soul.
My initial though was that it would be quite interesting if Griffith played the "savior" role yet by associating with him, his army of apostles, his kingdom and just being a part of his dream, the people have already unknowingly fated themselves to eventually end up in the VoS.

Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 301
« Reply #135 on: December 20, 2008, 11:41:00 PM »
I think you're a little confused (or maybe it's just me not understanding your meaning). For all we know, most humans end up in the Vortex anyway, unless they're someone like Flora who can circumvent the natural(read: evil) order of things. Griffith's involvement here hasn't altered the course of these humans' spirits.

The concentrated evil of departed human souls is what comprises the Vortex. Upon the death of those involved in the affairs of the God Hand, the Vortex rises up and rips away the "evilness" from the body of an apostle or branded, leaving only their unspoiled human shell behind. Here's some quotes to support this (though we also see it quite clearly in vol 11). I'd like to quote DH on these, but I'm at work, so all I have are these somewhat incomplete translations from Rane and Erias:

Quote from: Vol 3
Femto: Count, the undulation of your soul is close to pure evil. If your flesh expires, your soul, captured in the evil magnetic wave, will certainly fall down to Hell. And, you will wander about that crucible of dark thought for all eternity.
Femto: Before long, maintaining your individuality will become an impossibility. You will become one undulation, melting in the sea of the darkside of the soul in order to let fall a drop into the water.
Slann: That is the fate of those who were related to evil (spirits).

Quote from: Vol 23
Mule: Those lights... What... Are they... Where did they...?
Griffith: To where they can join as one.

Quote from:  Vol 24
Flora: And below that... Is where people, divided according to their karma, May find the realms known as heaven or hell.

Flora's line is a little confusing to me, and is so vague it's nearly useless. But that's really not a subject for this thread, I don't think. If someone else can think of a passage where the Vortex is discussed, please note it here.

PS: I just realized we basically already had this conversation just a few months ago: http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=9544.msg158519#msg158519
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Ramen4ever

Re: Episode 301
« Reply #136 on: December 21, 2008, 12:30:04 AM »
Griffith's involvement here hasn't altered the course of these humans' spirits.

So associating yourself with evil beings won't change your karma unless that association is being branded or becoming an apostle?
I was under the impression that being involved with apostles or the God Hand in anyway would effect whatever afterlife awaits you.
It seems I was indeed quite confused.  :isidro:

Quote
PS: I just realized we basically already had this conversation just a few months ago: http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=9544.msg158519#msg158519

Yes.. yes we did. Though that thread was quite confusing.. at least for me. I approached it with completely the wrong mind set. I'm gonna reread that thread.. immediately.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2008, 12:38:52 AM by Ramen4ever »

Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 301
« Reply #137 on: December 21, 2008, 12:46:03 AM »
So associating yourself with evil beings won't change your karma unless that association is being branded or becoming an apostle?
I was under the impression that being involved with apostles or the God Hand in anyway would effect whatever afterlife awaits you.
It seems I was indeed quite confused.  :isidro:
I can understand the confusion. We're in murky water already. But keep in mind, all bets are off. Humans interacting with apostles the way they are now is unprecedented -- it's not something that would have been addressed in either prior theories or even in the definitions of what we know of the Berserk Universe.

The former definition of "those involved in the affairs of the God Hand" is meant to address two types of beings primarily: apostles and branded. The rules and relationship with the Vortex for these two classifications pan out with little ambiguousness. But when you bring regular humans into the mix, you're in all-new territory. That being said, I think we can predict how it will play out, based on what we know.

If karma is what distinguishes a "good" human from an "evil" human, I really don't think fighting alongside an apostle to slaughter a hellish Chibishka will ............. (can't fucking believe I'm about to say this) ............. lower their alignment toward evil. However, having your entire being infused with evil, as with an apostle transformation, or having your soul branded by a demon lord through a ceremony -- those are all pretty clear indications that you've been caught up in some naughty shit.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Death May Die

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Re: Episode 301
« Reply #138 on: December 22, 2008, 11:38:36 PM »
I once Griffith gains victory, I wonder how humans and apostles will react than. I'm thinking that once the humans see the Superior apostles, they will appoint many of the apostles are kings or lords. Triggering the dark age. This is a way to get the human into oppression without them resisting. By gaining their trust. IDK just some thoughts.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2008, 05:16:07 PM by Death May Die »

Offline Ramen4ever

Re: Episode 301
« Reply #139 on: December 22, 2008, 11:54:26 PM »
I once Griffith gains victory, I wonder how humans a apostles will react than. I thinking that once the humans see the Superior apostles, they will appoint many of the apostles are kings or lords. Triggering the dark age. This is a way to get the human into oppression without them resisting. By gaining their trust. IDK just some thoughts.

Griffith will be the king / supreme ruler. This is speculation but considering what we've seen so far, life might not actually be so bad for the people who serve Griffith. The age of darkness might be for the rest of humanity. I mean, why set yourself up as a savior just to be a tyrant?
Imo Griffith would prefer to have blind white sheep over dead white sheep.

Offline Death May Die

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Re: Episode 301
« Reply #140 on: December 23, 2008, 06:40:13 AM »
Well I agree Griffith maybe. But if any of his apostles or even field men get appointed to a position of power, I doubt they will show much mercy. So, maybe Griffith's kingdom will be heavenly, but anywhere else, I agree, maybe taken upon the age of darkness.

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Re: Episode 301
« Reply #141 on: December 23, 2008, 08:20:10 AM »
Griffith will be the king / supreme ruler. This is speculation but considering what we've seen so far, life might not actually be so bad for the people who serve Griffith. The age of darkness might be for the rest of humanity. I mean, why set yourself up as a savior just to be a tyrant?
Imo Griffith would prefer to have blind white sheep over dead white sheep.

Griffith looks like a savior because that was what was needed for him to accomplish his dream in his mind. Actually being king is a totally different story. I've said it over and over again, I feel that Griffith has built up this idea of being king to be so amazing in his mind, but when it comes to reality what is it really like? I doubt it'll be anything close to what he was expecting. I think he'll be bored and restless, and if anything, will want more. Power and greed are a drug like any else, he'll instantly want more and more, for no other reason except that he's simply insatiable.

Offline Griffith

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Re: Episode 301
« Reply #142 on: December 23, 2008, 11:19:22 AM »
I once Griffith gains victory, I wonder how humans a apostles will react than. I thinking that once the humans see the Superior apostles, they will appoint many of the apostles are kings or lords. Triggering the dark age. This is a way to get the human into oppression without them resisting. By gaining their trust. IDK just some thoughts.

I like this.

Griffith looks like a savior because that was what was needed for him to accomplish his dream in his mind. Actually being king is a totally different story. I've said it over and over again, I feel that Griffith has built up this idea of being king to be so amazing in his mind, but when it comes to reality what is it really like? I doubt it'll be anything close to what he was expecting. I think he'll be bored and restless, and if anything, will want more. Power and greed are a drug like any else, he'll instantly want more and more, for no other reason except that he's simply insatiable.

Yes, let's remember that in many ways Griffith's dream was winning the crown, not wearing it. It's a prize a to be won, and we can't be sure what sort of value it will hold to him once he possesses it and gets a taste for what it's truly like. Especially in his heightened position as truly something greater than any earthly king, so once there's nothing more to achieve, what will he focus upon, desire, or possibly regret?

Offline SaiyajinNoOuji

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Re: Episode 301
« Reply #143 on: December 23, 2008, 12:36:04 PM »
Yes, let's remember that in many ways Griffith's dream was winning the crown, not wearing it. It's a prize a to be won, and we can't be sure what sort of value it will hold to him once he possesses it and gets a taste for what it's truly like, especially in his heightened position as truly something greater than any earthly king, but as a king among men and demons alike, once there's no more such heights to achieve, what will he focus upon, desire, and regret?

OTHER DIMENSIONS!!!!  :troll:
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Offline Smith

Re: Episode 301
« Reply #144 on: December 23, 2008, 01:42:16 PM »
OMG, another badass episode...

Man that Gryphon Apostle is becoming my favourite Aspostle... She looks so cute!!!  :casca:
It piss me off when I see weaklings, it make me want to crush them

Offline Ramen4ever

Re: Episode 301
« Reply #145 on: December 23, 2008, 04:25:58 PM »
Griffith looks like a savior because that was what was needed for him to accomplish his dream in his mind. Actually being king is a totally different story. I've said it over and over again, I feel that Griffith has built up this idea of being king to be so amazing in his mind, but when it comes to reality what is it really like? I doubt it'll be anything close to what he was expecting. I think he'll be bored and restless, and if anything, will want more. Power and greed are a drug like any else, he'll instantly want more and more, for no other reason except that he's simply insatiable.

.. I don't think it's gonna entirely end with becoming king, he wants a kingdom.. which will most likely have to be rebuilt. .. I don't recall any evidence that points to Griffith being greedy though.


He may want more power but I think he's actually going to be concentrating on keeping what he has. In other words eliminating all the obstacles that could possibly challenge his power, like all the magic users around the world. (This is an all too real possibility considering we've already seen it happen once) Maybe even expanding his kingdom to contain all the other kingdoms as well. (He certainly has the power) Whatever will happen in the future, I think it's important to focus on what's possible if we consider Griffith's character. His dream has already been ruined once before, I think that will be one of his major driving forces. And if we consider that, I actually don't see Griffith treating his subjects in any particularly bad way. Not if he wants to rule over an actual population.

I don't think we're going to see any moments of Griffith pondering on his thrown.. "when the jewels cease to sparkle, when the gold loses its luster, when the throne room becomes a prison."


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Re: Episode 301
« Reply #146 on: December 24, 2008, 12:39:49 AM »
I don't think we're going to see any moments of Griffith pondering on his thrown.. "when the jewels cease to sparkle, when the gold loses its luster, when the throne room becomes a prison."

This actually something like I imagined, but anything's possible. I agree with you on him focusing on anything that could jeopardize his dream, but I'm trying to think farther ahead to after he's accomplished his goal of securing his kingdom, which may or may not ever happen. It would seem a bit off-character for him to have not looked that far ahead though.

Offline Ramen4ever

Re: Episode 301
« Reply #147 on: December 24, 2008, 12:54:23 AM »
This actually something like I imagined, but anything's possible. I agree with you on him focusing on anything that could jeopardize his dream, but I'm trying to think farther ahead to after he's accomplished his goal of securing his kingdom, which may or may not ever happen. It would seem a bit off-character for him to have not looked that far ahead though.

That's the thing, I don't think there will be a genuine "after he's accomplished his goals" moment. If he ends up sending his apostles on a global witch hunt, sooner or later it will become one of Guts' problems. And when that happens, Guts will most likely get off the side lines.

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Offline SaiyajinNoOuji

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Re: Episode 301
« Reply #148 on: December 24, 2008, 12:57:43 AM »
On a more serious note on what will Griffith's ambitions be, I think that once that happens, the Idea of Evil will start something that will conflict with everyone.

As to what that may be I have no idea but I think the big guy is just going to start rubbing people the wrong way.
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Offline HawaiianStallion

Re: Episode 301
« Reply #149 on: December 24, 2008, 05:55:39 PM »
To be honest, I'm fairly sure that what Griffith wants is inconsequential to what the rest of the God Hand are planning and especially what the idea of Evil wants from all this. Also from everything we've been told through out the series, Griffith becoming King is probably not going to be a good thing, especially in the long run.

I'm also not sure if its accurate to compare the goals of the original Griffith with the reborn one. He's a different creature now in mind, body and soul after the Eclipse.

It's my theory that once he does have control over the Kingdom, the !@#$ is really gonna start hitting the fans. It might not be apparent to most of the population but the world is already changing and I'm sure having a Godhand King with an apostle army is just one more step in that direction of changing the world.