Author Topic: Episode 301  (Read 55279 times)

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Offline FRS

Re: Episode 301
« Reply #25 on: December 10, 2008, 07:46:04 AM »
Thanks for posting the preview, looks like that getting his human and non human troops fighting together wasn't as hard as I expected for Griffith.


Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 301
« Reply #26 on: December 10, 2008, 12:03:16 PM »
I almost wonder if the thread between his antlers is like that of a spider.  Perhaps the ends of his antlers are spinnerets?

That could very well be, though it must not be as stretchable in order to serve as a good bow string.

Thanks for posting the preview, looks like that getting his human and non human troops fighting together wasn't as hard as I expected for Griffith.

Then again, what has been hard for him since his incarnation? :idea:

Anyway, Sonia's really acting like a child it seems, even more than what we've been used to, considering the situation. And Irvine's feats are being properly acclaimed apparently. By the way, did anyone notice how one of the Ganishka spawns (shown from above) looks a bit like an Octorock from Zelda? :void:

Anyway, humans and apostles fighting together to that extent is really interesting, and it makes me wonder more than ever how things will turn out once the war is over. Could the apostles live harmoniously with humans? Would they raid areas not under Griffith's rule or just do it under the cover of the night? Or maybe criminals could be fed to them? I guess the worst would be a society where people are (willingly or unwillingly) offered as "sacrifices" to the monsters.

Offline creampuff_war

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Re: Episode 301
« Reply #27 on: December 10, 2008, 01:26:21 PM »
Anyway, humans and apostles fighting together to that extent is really interesting, and it makes me wonder more than ever how things will turn out once the war is over. Could the apostles live harmoniously with humans? Would they raid areas not under Griffith's rule or just do it under the cover of the night? Or maybe criminals could be fed to them? I guess the worst would be a society where people are (willingly or unwillingly) offered as "sacrifices" to the monsters.

I could see them being worshiped as gods, kinda like roman or greek mythology (I enjoy imagining a temple of Zodd), except these Berserk gods would be tangible creatures instead of legends and stories. If this were the case, people sacrificing themselves would not surprise me.

However, it would be unlikely that Griff would condone worship of his subordinates, plus it could cause strife among people loyal to the Pontiff.

What do apostles eat besides humans? I guess if Griff forbids the eating of humans, we could see a harmonious existence, but it would still be strange.
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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 301
« Reply #28 on: December 10, 2008, 02:04:52 PM »
I could see them being worshiped as gods, kinda like roman or greek mythology (I enjoy imagining a temple of Zodd), except these Berserk gods would be tangible creatures instead of legends and stories. If this were the case, people sacrificing themselves would not surprise me.

This reminds me of what Schierke said about the Kundalini in episode 273, that it was "strong enough to be called a god in many religions".

However, it would be unlikely that Griff would condone worship of his subordinates, plus it could cause strife among people loyal to the Pontiff.

Well, they're apostles, after all. :zodd:

But seriously, I guess Griffith and the Pontiff could decree them to be benevolent angels or something like that, regardless of their looks and habits. All in all though I don't think it's going to happen, regardless of how fun it is to imagine.

What do apostles eat besides humans? I guess if Griff forbids the eating of humans, we could see a harmonious existence, but it would still be strange.

They can other meats from what we've seen. Other than that, we don't really know. I think it's safe to say that most of them crave human meat though. At least their actions seem to imply it. And there's also the problem of how they'd act around women (or men, for female apostles). They have a tendency to rape as well as to devour...

Offline Xans-Griffith

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Re: Episode 301
« Reply #29 on: December 10, 2008, 02:52:57 PM »
The apostles are still means to an end, and we don't know what that end is. With fear and confusion running through the humans and the spectacle of Ganishka and seeing the apostles transform for the first time, the "laws" governing the separation between humans and monsters might've "broken down", but we can't say for sure that any cooperation between them will last afterwards. They just saw an inspiring display by Sonia and are in the generally inspiring presence of Griffith, so the "laws" might be overwhelmed for the time being by the force of their personalities and the general adrenaline rush, but once everything's settled down and an apostle decides to snack/rape a village girl, any sort of camaraderie will be overturned.

As for apostles subjugating humans, that might happen. The Snake Baron's subordinates did treat him like a demigod. Only difference now is they'd be out in the open.

Anyway, Sonia's prophetic words imply a profound change to the structure of the world, so we can't really be sure what'll come out of the chaos of this situation.

Offline MaN

Re: Episode 301
« Reply #30 on: December 10, 2008, 02:54:07 PM »
Yaaay... I can see the thought process behind Irvine's Apostle form now. He has to be beast-like but still be able to string arrows hence the head on butt form.

Its sad to read that Miura is sad and lonely. I guess popularity and fan-base can't replace for companionship. The feelings probably only heighten in the holiday season.

IDLEMASTER  :guts:

What do apostles eat besides humans? I guess if Griff forbids the eating of humans, we could see a harmonious existence, but it would still be strange.
yeah kinda like vegetarian carnivores. I thought they ONLY ate humans and fresh souls.
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Offline Xans-Griffith

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Re: Episode 301
« Reply #31 on: December 10, 2008, 03:36:10 PM »
Its sad to read that Miura is sad and lonely. I guess popularity and fan-base can't replace for companionship. The feelings probably only heighten in the holiday season.

IDLEMASTER  :guts:

Hmm, he's talked about loneliness before:

Quote from: DVD Interview
An average working man living in an average world would have a personal problem. He'd be worried about how his kids are doing in school. But I live in isolation, watching the world only on the news on TV so I start to see the bigger picture. I can look at the world from another angle.

I agree, though, it made me wonder when I read that in the original post. Maybe we'll get to see more happy family time in the coming episodes.   \:guts::serpico:/

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 301
« Reply #32 on: December 10, 2008, 06:24:33 PM »
With fear and confusion running through the humans and the spectacle of Ganishka and seeing the apostles transform for the first time, the "laws" governing the separation between humans and monsters might've "broken down"

Hmm, what you're saying here bothers me a bit. I mean the vocabulary you're using (laws that break down). We can't really say that there was an actual law preventing humans and apostles from teaming up, and we've had examples of it happening before (at least apostles leading humans). So while what's happening now is unprecedented (from what we've seen, that is) and may indeed equate to a change in the "human world", I believe it's a bit risky to directly relate it to notions that seem to refer to actual fundamental rules in the world (like the separation of the spiritual and material layers of the world) and not just to human societies. That makes me think your formulation might be confusing if not erroneous. In any case it's a tricky topic.

As for apostles subjugating humans, that might happen. The Snake Baron's subordinates did treat him like a demigod. Only difference now is they'd be out in the open.

Nah, he was just a tyrant and they treated him as such. He held them in place with fear, and he was helped in that by his underlings (who ignored his true nature). I don't think it's comparable to what creampuff_war and I were talking about.

Its sad to read that Miura is sad and lonely. I guess popularity and fan-base can't replace for companionship. The feelings probably only heighten in the holiday season.

That's what working 16 hours a day, every day of the week, for over 15 years will do to you.

IDLEMASTER  :guts:

Oh oh oh, how clever you are.

Hmm, he's talked about loneliness before:

I agree, though, it made me wonder when I read that in the original post. Maybe we'll get to see more happy family time in the coming episodes.   \:guts::serpico:/

I don't think you understand the extent of it. What you've quoted is nothing, not even the tip of the iceberg. He's talked about it many times in the past. Here's a short comic to illustrate:


Don't ask me for a full translation, but he basically laments that he has no girlfriend, no friends, nothing to do; that he's in his thirties and has worked 16 hours a day with 5 holidays a year for 10 years. Finally Miura regains spirit and says "No, I shouldn't let it go!!". Then Puck taunts him like the Beast of Darkness taunts Guts in volume 16, telling him he'll have nothing but manga, and calling him antisocial. After all that, he proposes him to come and eat (Miura's reaction in the last panel speaks for itself).

Offline Gobolatula

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Re: Episode 301
« Reply #33 on: December 10, 2008, 06:54:09 PM »
MR. MIURA, COME TO SAN FRAN! I'LL BUY YOU A DRINK AND SOME NACHOS AND WE'LL LOOK AT BEAUTIFUL WOMEN!! I PROMISE I WON'T BORE YOU WITH TEDIOUS REPETATIVE FANBOY QUESTIONS AND JUST BE A FRIENDLY DUDE!!

That would be cool...

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Re: Episode 301
« Reply #34 on: December 10, 2008, 09:06:01 PM »
That comic is really telling and actually pretty cool.

Offline SaiyajinNoOuji

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Re: Episode 301
« Reply #35 on: December 10, 2008, 11:09:26 PM »
Don't ask me for a full translation, but he basically laments that he has no girlfriend, no friends, nothing to do; that he's in his thirties and has worked 16 hours a day with 5 holidays a year for 10 years. Finally Miura regains spirit and says "No, I shouldn't let it go!!". Then Puck taunts him like the Beast of Darkness taunts Guts in volume 16, telling him he'll have nothing but manga, and calling him antisocial. After all that, he proposes him to come and eat (Miura's reaction in the last panel speaks for itself).

Oh the price of being great.  :judo:

House M.D. had an episode like that. Talking about those who were great at what they did didnt have a nice warm family to come back home to and what not. Im sure he isn't in to it, but I am sure he could find some Berserk groupies to keep him warm during the winter.  :carcus:

Anyways, I am just anxious to see what the next episode will bring.
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Offline Xans-Griffith

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Re: Episode 301
« Reply #36 on: December 11, 2008, 12:50:37 AM »
Hmm, what you're saying here bothers me a bit. I mean the vocabulary you're using (laws that break down). We can't really say that there was an actual law preventing humans and apostles from teaming up, and we've had examples of it happening before (at least apostles leading humans). So while what's happening now is unprecedented (from what we've seen, that is) and may indeed equate to a change in the "human world", I believe it's a bit risky to directly relate it to notions that seem to refer to actual fundamental rules in the world (like the separation of the spiritual and material layers of the world) and not just to human societies. That makes me think your formulation might be confusing if not erroneous. In any case it's a tricky topic.

I agree the vocabulary was a stretch, hence partly why I put it in quotes, but I did want to make that connection to what Sonia said. I meant more an indirect relation to the social norms/conventions that would govern a human-apostle interaction, but I can see where it'd be confusing or erroneous.

Nah, he was just a tyrant and they treated him as such. He held them in place with fear, and he was helped in that by his underlings (who ignored his true nature). I don't think it's comparable to what creampuff_war and I were talking about.

I was relating him to a dystopian Berserk future, since his example contained the ideas of fear and offering up sacrifices. You're right though, they don't treat him as a demigod figure. But with the nature of apostles revealed, that tyrant status could extend to tyrant demigod status for apostles like him. Anyway, that has nothing to do with the apostle-gods living harmoniously with humans idea so I'll drop it there.

I don't think you understand the extent of it. What you've quoted is nothing, not even the tip of the iceberg. He's talked about it many times in the past. Here's a short comic to illustrate:

I didn't know the extent, no. Thank you. But the reason I wanted to quote that particular bit was because it was another interpretation on his loneliness. It was more a suggestion that his isolation was essential and contributed to his perspective as an artist.

On a related note, he's tackled loneliness on different levels in Berserk--Guts in his Black Swordsman years, Griffith and his "loneliness at the top", Serpico and Farnese's loneliness. He himself having a conception of loneliness, I think, is helpful in exploring that topic in his work.

Anyway, the perspective outside of the social heirarchy is neither a good nor bad thing in my opinion, and I believe it's helpful to him as he himself stated in that interview. But in the end, I do worry for him. The "bored and lonely these days" line sounded somehow foreboding when I first read it.

Offline Smith

Re: Episode 301
« Reply #37 on: December 11, 2008, 02:59:34 AM »
Its very strange to see human join forces with apostles... I bet those soldiers won't feel comfortable riding them (the apostles)

Anyway another epic battle scene... Really looking forward to it.

Since there was no news of next episode release date I guess.
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Re: Episode 301
« Reply #38 on: December 11, 2008, 07:32:22 AM »
http://aazealh.net/Divers/Miura-lonely.jpg

Don't ask me for a full translation, but he basically laments that he has no girlfriend, no friends, nothing to do; that he's in his thirties and has worked 16 hours a day with 5 holidays a year for 10 years. Finally Miura regains spirit and says "No, I shouldn't let it go!!". Then Puck taunts him like the Beast of Darkness taunts Guts in volume 16, telling him he'll have nothing but manga, and calling him antisocial. After all that, he proposes him to come and eat (Miura's reaction in the last panel speaks for itself).

Haha, that's great. I indeed won't ask you for a full translation Aaz, but please, someone out there has to do this. It's meta-Miura in his own words! =)

As for the episode, yeah, I think the pope hit it on the head. Certainly not what we're accustomed to when we see human and Apostles come together on this scale; it's surreal, but makes sense when you think outside the box. Seriously, those guys got pretty fucking brave pretty fast to jump on board like that, possibly inspired because even a girl did it? :guts:

Offline Guts' intestines

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Re: Episode 301
« Reply #39 on: December 11, 2008, 08:35:15 AM »
I don't see why we're getting so sidetracked on this apostle design. It's not really a secret that they generally incorporate an amalgamation of different monsters/animals into their apostle form. Is it an owl, an ostrich, Big Bird? a DODO?! Can't it be all of these and then some?
It seems that way -- with Griffith looking heroic, rearing his horse up, appearing to give the order to charge.

Eh, just something to talk about.

Yeah it's some sort of lizard tail, not unlike what you'd see on a cockatrice. Maybe it's also got a snake head or a stinger at the end or something like that. Just a run of the mill apostle.

Should get started between 302 and 304 depending on how it's set up.

Thank you, because for the life of me I couldn't think of the name of the mythical creature which is mostly bird with a dragon tail.  Lastly, for some reason I'm less psyched about the Griffith vs. Ganishka showdown than I was in the past. I've been thinking of this for a few weeks now but I think the suspense has actually killed part of my interest, around 298-299 I couldn't wait, but now I'm starting to miss Guts and party, hopefully my interest will grow once I know that the climax of the fight is imminent in the next episode, right now I'm excited but then again I'm excited for each new episode and I'm not overly so.

That Miura stuff is a little sad, but I gotta say that if he's working 16 hours a day he can't really say that he has nothing to do, good lord after that I just think of him pining away in a writing office with one solitary lamp and tons of papers strewn on his desk, drawing board behind him, eyes bloodshot and beady with tears flowing from one eye...

Maybe I'm a little disturbed though, idk.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2008, 08:46:41 AM by Guts' intestines »


Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 301
« Reply #41 on: December 11, 2008, 01:18:02 PM »
Im sure he isn't in to it, but I am sure he could find some Berserk groupies to keep him warm during the winter.  :carcus:

Are you volunteering? :carcus:

I didn't know the extent, no. Thank you. But the reason I wanted to quote that particular bit was because it was another interpretation on his loneliness. It was more a suggestion that his isolation was essential and contributed to his perspective as an artist.

Yeah, it can be said that it's part of the job. Many mangaka are in similar situations where their work leeches away their social life.

But in the end, I do worry for him. The "bored and lonely these days" line sounded somehow foreboding when I first read it.

Don't be too worried, it's not as bad as it can sound in English.

Episode 333's comment: "All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy". :void:

Certainly not what we're accustomed to when we see human and Apostles come together on this scale; it's surreal, but makes sense when you think outside the box. Seriously, those guys got pretty fucking brave pretty fast to jump on board like that, possibly inspired because even a girl did it? :guts:

Yeah, seeing the actual episode now, it's incredible almost to the point of being perplexing. And it's not just the humans that are acting out of character either; seeing apostles carrying wounded soldiers away from the front line is more frightening to me than seeing humans rushing to defend the fallen Harpy/Cockatrice apostle and other wounded ones. Anyway, now we know what the battle between the Ganishka-spawns and the apostles was leading to and why it was shown in such detail: this ultimate harmony between all of Griffith's followers.

On a side note, props to the mammoth apostle. :zodd:

Lastly, for some reason I'm less psyched about the Griffith vs. Ganishka showdown than I was in the past. I've been thinking of this for a few weeks now but I think the suspense has actually killed part of my interest, around 298-299 I couldn't wait, but now I'm starting to miss Guts and party, hopefully my interest will grow once I know that the climax of the fight is imminent in the next episode, right now I'm excited but then again I'm excited for each new episode and I'm not overly so.

"So I'm excited but less excited than before but still excited a bit and excited about other things but I'm gonna be excited again soon and..and..." :ganishka:

Don't worry man, I'm sure you'll be pumped when it actually happens. :guts:

That Miura stuff is a little sad, but I gotta say that if he's working 16 hours a day he can't really say that he has nothing to do, good lord after that I just think of him pining away in a writing office with one solitary lamp and tons of papers strewn on his desk, drawing board behind him, eyes bloodshot and beady with tears flowing from one eye...

Yeah, he works more than people give him credit for. We're at a turning point in the manga in many ways (the final battle against Ganishka, Griffith getting his kingdom, Guts and his friends on their way to Elfhelm), so I'm pretty sure it requires a lot of careful planning, thinking and creating to pave the way for all that.

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Re: Episode 301
« Reply #42 on: December 11, 2008, 01:21:06 PM »
I'll offer my professional translation of one page in this ep:
 :daiba: : "Dogs and cats, living together... MASS HYSTERIA!"

Glad to see he made it out alive. As for the ever-strange collusion between human and demon, it sure was interesting to see the Cocatrice apostle move into a rage after seeing the humans who were defending him get attacked.

I look forward to the Pontiff's text. He seems quite taken.
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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 301
« Reply #43 on: December 11, 2008, 01:45:37 PM »
it sure was interesting to see the Cocatrice apostle move into a rage after seeing the humans who were defending him get attacked.

I look forward to the Pontiff's text. He seems quite taken.

I think it's a she. :carcus:

Anyway, you guys might find this weird but the more I look at that scene (pages 08 and 09), the more I find it... moving. I feel like the Pontiff watching that scene; I'm almost expecting tears to start rolling down my cheeks...

On another note, it's interesting to see that Irvine has horny growths (no idea what to call them... spurs?) on his forearms. I wonder if they're just for show or if he can use them to fight if needed.

And on YET another one, check out the apostle on the left of page 17. Does he remind you of anything? Guts bit his hand during the Occultation ceremony (beginning of volume 13) while he was strangling him. :zodd:

Offline creampuff_war

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Re: Episode 301
« Reply #44 on: December 11, 2008, 02:02:09 PM »
Quite a powerful episode.

I wonder how many apostles are saying to each other, "hey, remember when we were eating human soldiers at the festival? And now they're riding us into battle. Strange, huh?"

I know through the lens of the Berserk world, Guts has usually been viewed as evil and Griffith good, but this episode really illustrates the paradigm shift going on in the story. We were all wondering how Griffith could manage being a savior to humans with all these monsters surrounding him, but it seems as though humans and apostles are fully capable of coexisting on a much larger scale. I know there's still alot of time for reflection on both sides when the battle is over, but if apostles aren't going to be regarded as monsters, and they, in turn, don't view humans as tasty morsels...well, Guts just lost that angle to rally people to his cause.

hot damn, even the Pontiff was weeping at Griff's magnanimous, messianic presence.

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Offline Vampire_Hunter_Bob

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Re: Episode 301
« Reply #45 on: December 11, 2008, 02:04:57 PM »
I think it's a she. :carcus:
She's got some nice eyes there.  :carcus:

Quote
Anyway, you guys might find this weird but the more I look at that scene (pages 08 and 09), the more I find it... moving.
It is really different seeing the humans fighting along side apostle or even being shown injured or dying side by side.

I wonder how many apostles are saying to each other, "hey, remember when we were eating human soldiers at the festival? And now they're riding us into battle. Strange, huh?"
Some of the lesser apostle are probably happy to get some back up instead of being expected to do it all alone.

« Last Edit: December 11, 2008, 02:41:42 PM by Vampire_Hunter_Bob »

Offline creampuff_war

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Re: Episode 301
« Reply #46 on: December 11, 2008, 02:22:21 PM »
I wonder if Zodd is, a) pissed that he must share the glory of battle with unworthy, weak humans.
                           b) happy to fight alongside humans who are showing such bravery and courage.
                           c) indifferent.

Seriously though, we got some perspective from Daiba, what about the Nosferatu?
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Offline Marik

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Re: Episode 301
« Reply #47 on: December 11, 2008, 02:32:01 PM »
Pretty episode.

At this rate I think that the utopia is well set.

Anyway there's no doubt: Irvine is my favourite apostle.   :badbone:
Now I'll wait for the resin statue.  :beast:

Offline Vampire_Hunter_Bob

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Re: Episode 301
« Reply #48 on: December 11, 2008, 02:42:07 PM »
I wonder if Zodd is, c) indifferent.

Quote
Seriously though, we got some perspective from Daiba, what about the Nosferatu?

I'm interested in seeing what he thinks of this, but most likely he doesn't care.

Offline Ramen4ever

Re: Episode 301
« Reply #49 on: December 11, 2008, 03:33:08 PM »
I've got work to do, so for now I'll just say, thanks for the preview and episode!!!
Oh and that panel with Sonia was hilarious. :guts: