Episode II

biggerthanzodd

mmm...banana
Alright Alright
It was better than Starship Troopers, Armageddon, Planet of the Apes, AI, Bicentennial Man, Contact, Communion, The Cell, Demolition Man, Event Horizon, Final Fantasy, Galaxy Quest, Hollow Man, Independence Day, Judge Dredd, Johnny Mnemonic, K-Pax, Lawnmower Man, Men in Black, Pitch Black, Powder, Rollerball, Sphere, Titan AE, The X-Files Movie, Total Recall, Virtuosity, and Waterworld, but that's it....wait a minute, I guess The Matrix is a good Sci-Fi movie after all.
 

roberto999

The Black Chick of Darkness
The science please?
OK in Matrix there was not an "anticipation" of like the things  will be, let us say,  20  years from now, nor was it based on the more recent scientific theories, but its  strong point was to show us that the world could be not at all like we see it. So far how we know we could really be nothing more that AI on Someone Else computer. A sort of advanced Quake III bots. Who knows ?
 

BOB

poruno sutâ
Alright Alright
It was better than Starship Troopers, Armageddon, Planet of the Apes, AI, Bicentennial Man, Contact, Communion, The Cell, Demolition Man, Event Horizon, Final Fantasy, Galaxy Quest, Hollow Man, Independence Day, Judge Dredd, Johnny Mnemonic, K-Pax, Lawnmower Man, Men in Black, Pitch Black, Powder, Rollerball, Sphere, Titan AE, The X-Files Movie, Total Recall, Virtuosity, and Waterworld, but that's it....wait a minute, I guess The Matrix is a good Sci-Fi movie after all.
Dear Mr. Gorilla,
i beg to differ. Starship troopers, along with robocop was a rather clever and damn cynical view on modern society's facist undertones. Most people just didn't understand that paradox between the cheesy love story between those Teenagers and their true purpose to serve only as cannonfodder for an idealistic war. Damn i always laugh my ass off when that redhead psychic enters the screen in the end with that typical SS styled coat.
The original Rollerball with James Caan is also miles ahead of the matrix i think. I wouldn't even dare to watch the remake.

Only thing i really love about the matrix is that shoot out in the hallway, though obviously ripped off that tank scene from ghost in the shell this is an impressive performance, with the slow motion and the shining bullets that fall to the ground like rain.
 

CnC

Ad Oculos
robocop, which wasn't on gorilla's list, was a great movie (barring all sequels). Starship Troopers, while it wasn't as good as robocop, was quite funny. However it was torn apart by whatever extremely bad actors played the lead. The look at our society through the use of those TV commercials was great... "would you like to know more?"


Only thing i really love about the matrix is that shoot out in the hallway, though obviously ripped off that tank scene from ghost in the shell this is an impressive performance, with the slow motion and the shining bullets that fall to the ground like rain.

well most of the action scenes were going for an anime-type feel.


wasn't this thread about star wars?
 

Magus-Himself

Confessions of a Mask...
Although this isn’t science fiction related, I just watched “Memento” and it was AWESOME!!!!!!!!!

I highly recommend it….. ;D

--Magus
 

BOB

poruno sutâ
Although this isn’t science fiction related, I just watched “Memento” and it was AWESOME!!!!!!!!!

I highly recommend it….. ;D

--Magus

wonder if the film would work if you watched it backwards, since it is already backwards. liked that film a lot
 

CnC

Ad Oculos
i heard way too much hype about memento before i saw it... it was great... but it wasn't as good as people were saying...
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
wonder if the film would work if you watched it backwards, since it is already backwards. liked that film a lot
Sort of... You forget the black and white scenes, which progress chronologically normal. The color scenes are backwards though. In my opinion its easier to understand backwards.

Oh, and by the way it is far and beyond my favorite movie. Ive watched it 20+ times.
 
D

Drachenfels

Guest
Dear Mr. Gorilla,
i beg to differ. Starship troopers, along with robocop was a rather clever and damn cynical view on modern society's facist undertones.

No. The novel had real depth, while the movie was just a slaughterfest with VERY weak attempts to keep some of the novels deeper aspects.
 

bundy

BRAIN FREEZE!!!
Personally, I felt that the movie was visually stunning...but that was about it. The acting sucked and I couldn't believe that Darth Vader....oops Anakin....was such a whiny arogant baby. Terrible acting and I felt like Phantom Menace this movie dragged unlike the originals in the 80s :-X. Of course, the highlight was Yoda :eek: who did major damage and should of just let
Obi-Wan & Darth Vader....damn I mean crybaby Anakin Die under rubble.

Watch the movie....and tell me what you think when Darth Vader.....I mean stupid Anakin is sleeping and begins moaning thinking about his mother :D....and not the Natalie Portman.....who got kind of plump if I might add.

Spectacular Effects + Mediocre Actors = Not the greatest Sequel we all wanted >:(
 

Vampire_Hunter_Bob

Cats are great
i was on aim and a friend sent this to me http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/001/248ipzbt.asp worth the read.

- Bob

p.s. Rebels bad, Empire Good.
 
Sort of... You forget the black and white scenes, which progress chronologically normal. The color scenes are backwards though. In my opinion its easier to understand backwards.

Oh, and by the way it is far and beyond my favorite movie. Ive watched it 20+ times.

I've watched it like 20 times too. (O.K. well more like 7 times) It seems to make less sense to me every time I see it.

I have a Momento question: (I don't think this thread could be more off topic anyway)

*spoilers*

Lenny's ailment would pretty much have to be psychological wouldn't it? I mean, suposedly he had that acciden't and the last thing that he remembers is his wife's death, but he always is able to recite exactly what his problem and explain it to other people off of the cuff. But if his condition is genuin and he really can't make new memories, he would wouldn't be able to remember that he even has this condition. He would be in a constant state of confusion much like Sammy Jenkins. Right?
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
I've watched it like 20 times too. (O.K. well more like 7 times)  It seems to make less sense to me every time I see it.  

I have a Momento question: (I don't think this thread could be more off topic anyway)

*spoilers*

Lenny's ailment would pretty much have to be psychological wouldn't it?  I mean, suposedly he had that acciden't and the last thing that he remembers is his wife's death, but he always is able to recite exactly what his problem and explain it to other people off of the cuff.  But if his condition is genuin and he really can't make new memories, he would wouldn't be able to remember that he even has this condition.  He would be in a constant state of confusion much like Sammy Jenkins.   Right?
This page says it better than I can:

http://www.designpattern.org/mementofaq.htm
 

Magus-Himself

Confessions of a Mask...
Lenny's ailment would pretty much have to be psychological wouldn't it? I mean, suposedly he had that acciden't and the last thing that he remembers is his wife's death, but he always is able to recite exactly what his problem and explain it to other people off of the cuff. But if his condition is genuin and he really can't make new memories, he would wouldn't be able to remember that he even has this condition. He would be in a constant state of confusion much like Sammy Jenkins. Right?

Hmm, damn good question…. Although I don’t think his memory problem is Psychology: In order to make a long term memory you must first make a short term memory. But if you’re Hippocampus (area of the brain responsible for making short term memories) is screwed up, than obviously you can’t make new long term memories.

I’m going to ask my psychology professor on Monday, but I think it’s a physiological problem; I mean if someone whacks you in the back of the head and you’re Hippocampus gets messed up, how is that psychological? Psychological problems include aliments like depression, schizophrenia etc. It’s like calling a broken arm a mental problem. I think that must have been an error in the movie.

--Magus
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
The short answer is:

Conditioning is the answer for Faust's question. Lenny gets Sammy and his own stories confused. Lenny CAN use conditioning to learn new things, while Sammy couldn't. Sammy's problem was only psychological, Lenny's is both physical AND psychological.
 

Magus-Himself

Confessions of a Mask...
Thanks for the FAQ site, wally! ;D

Conditioning is the answer for Faust's question. Lenny gets Sammy and his own stories confused. Lenny CAN use conditioning to learn new things, while Sammy couldn't. Sammy's problem was only psychological, Lenny's is both physical AND psychological.

Ok.... I'm not trying to argue here or anything, but if Sammy was in a car accident and got damage done to his hippo how would that not be physical? Moreover, how does sammy's problem differ from Lenny's assuming that sammy isn't lenny.

(damn good movie I must say!)

--Magus
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member

[font=Verdana color=red]
****MEMENTO SPOILERS****

[/font]

Watch the later Sammy scenes more carefully. I'm not saying that it gets simpler =). Lenny tells Sammy's wife eventually that the tests show that though the doctors initally thought that there was physical damage, there wasn't. Here's where it gets trick though, because you find out at the end of the movie,  Sammy didn't have a wife. Sammy's wife in the Sammy scenes is most probably Lenny's wife. Which means that any dialogue we see between Sammy's wife and Lenny is either purely fictional/made up in Lennys head, or its the real story, and the director is just playing with us...)

"Sammy should be physically capable of making new memories."

Which would infer that Sammy's memory loss was a psychological development. Now you can take that however you want, that's as far as the movie takes it. It could mean that Sammy wanted to forget things, and he drove himself to forget things.

My ultimate answer to the deeper Sammy/Lenny relationships (for those that want an ULTIMATE truth, which I really dont care for personally...) is that the whole point of the film is to question the reliability of memory. The director/writer intentionally leaves out key facts so as to make it unsolvable... that is, for the unfaithful who refuse to make leaps of plot faith  ;D



[font=Verdana color=red]
****END SPOILERS****

[/font]
 

Magus-Himself

Confessions of a Mask...
My ultimate answer to the deeper Sammy/Lenny relationships (for those that want an ULTIMATE truth, which I really dont care for personally...) is that the whole point of the film is to question the reliability of memory.

Yeah that's pretty much what I got from it, which is in itself quite a powerful message. Although, I'd like to respond to the suggestion (by teddy) that it was lenny (not sammy) who killed his wife:

I don’t see how Lenny was the one who killed his wife with the insulin: Near the end of the movie when Teddy mentioned it was lenny (not sammy) who killed his wife with the insulin, it showed two scenes, one with lenny pinching his wife and one injecting his wife. It makes more sense (to me) that the pinching scene is the correct one here because of the fact that she (lenny’s wife) looked genuinely surprised and said “ouch!” when he pinched her. In other words I doubt that she would say ow or be surprised if she was expecting a shot (which she obviously wasn’t if she said ow). Moreover, if his wife was “testing” him to see if he would actually give her additional shots, why did it seem like she wasn't expecting it?
If the above is true than it negates the whole idea of Sammy actually being Lenny, which implies that in fact it was sammy who killed his wife with the insulin, closing the door to the idea that sammy was a “faker” and lenny confusing his memories with thoses of sammy…

(my analysis might be way off though...) :p

--Magus
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Well, thats one area that I dont think is open to interpretation. The movie awkwardly clarifies it with 2 facts: 1) Teddy's selfless confession that Sammy never had a wife. 2) the insulin scene you refer to.

Still... Teddy could be lying. Thats why i inserted 'selfless' above. There wouldbe no gain to lying to Lenny then. Hed just forget.
 

Uriel

This journey isn't ov--AARGH!
Thought it best to refresh everyone memory, seeing as they soon started talking about Memento :-X
 
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