Author Topic: Would it be possible for Guts to sacrifice Griffith in his current human form?  (Read 3300 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Maito Gai

I'm thinking of their final battle against one another.  It would be ironic if Guts was able sacrifice Griffith in his human form when he uses the Beherit (if it's even his).

Offline Ramen4ever

Wha?? :schnoz:

I don't think you can just throw around "sacrifice" like that. Griffith may appear to be a human but his abilities so far indicate that he is not "human" he is still a member of the GH. Can a member of the GH be sacrificed? I have my doubts. Primarily because it would seem like some pretty half-assed manipulation if the Idea of Evil was involved. Is Griffith currently someone close to Guts' heart? no, not in the typical sense. Is someone even going to use that Beherit to become an apostle? Or will it be used for some other purpose? Has Guts' been developing and struggling as a human being just so he can become a monster in the end?

Ironic? yes. Plausible? Not really.

Offline fuxberg

It just can't be done.
I hope Aaz applies his wall of text technique to explain this.  :schnoz:

Or

You can just search the forum's older threads to find an answer to that, because I'm pretty sure it as already been asked.

I think it's related to the fact that Guts is already branded and he has a sort of "restraining order" where he has to stay 10m away from any GH or he'll bleed to death! :ganishka:

...Griffith may appear to be a human but his abilities so far indicate that he is not "human" he is still a member of the GH. Can a member of the GH be sacrificed?
There's also that. Anyways someone will surely explain this way better than this.

Offline Aazealh

  • 髑髏の騎士
  • Administrator
  • Of Terror
  • *****
  • Posts: 18399
  • Karma: 624
  • Gender: Male
  • そうはいかぬ
There's no need for a wall of text, I think common sense is enough here. Ramen4ever covered some of the reasons why it's not possible already. Would the God Hand accept one of their own as a sacrifice? No, they wouldn't. Is it even possible to Brand a member of the God Hand? That seems quite unlikely. Is Griffith the dearest thing to Guts? Not really. Would Guts even try to become an apostle by sacrificing Griffith? I really, really don't think so.

The list goes on and this has indeed been discussed before, but the short answer is just "no".

Offline Walter

  • 賢者
  • Administrator
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 15859
  • Karma: 463
  • Gender: Male
  • Chapter ≠ Episode
It'd also be a huge betrayal of what Guts is all about. So, the guy that's honed himself for battle his entire life, and dedicated himself against demonkind would utilize their power to beat his greatest enemy? Seems incredibly implausible from a narrative perspective, even with the above details aside -- a huge cop out.  :azan:
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Griffith

  • The Millennium Falcon
  • Falconian
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 9670
  • Karma: 221
  • Gender: Male
  • My posts are better.
Who knows? Obviously one's first inclination is no, but even if it were technically possible, it's probably not going to happen.

I'm more interesting in the peripheral issues surrounding this idea though, such as the implications of a sacrifice trying to make a sacrifice, and whether or not Griffith would qualify as being something so dear to him in a twisted way.

Offline Ramen4ever

Who knows? Obviously one's first inclination is no, but even if it were technically possible, it's probably not going to happen.

I'm more interesting in the peripheral issues surrounding this idea though, such as the implications of a sacrifice trying to make a sacrifice, and whether or not Griffith would qualify as being something so dear to him in a twisted way.

I was thinking about something similar for a while.

I don't know if it would be right to mix the God Hand or apostles in general into the mix. Considering that Slan tried to tempt and entice Guts by asking him if he wanted to make a sacrifice like Griffith and her comment about how interesting it would be if Guts joined them. I would say that a sacrifice making a sacrifice is actually plausible. Miura developing the Beast of Darkness within Guts, establishes a kind of worry or fear in the reader. That maybe Guts will one day use the Beherit. Would Miura allow Guts to truly become a monster? Probably not but it's still a great plot device and Miura uses it to great effect. I guess what I'm saying is that Miura hints at the possibility. It most likely won't happen. But it's still there and that's what's interesting. As for Griffith, I don't think he qualifies as a sacrifice for Guts. Or as a sacrifice in general. An eclipse ceremony only happens once every 216 years and it probably requires a lot of manipulation from the Idea of Evil for each potential member. Centuries of manipulation actually, to establish a GH member just so that member can be sacrificed in order to create a new apostle? To me that sounds on par with sacrificing your Queen in chess just to save your peon. I don't think the Idea of Evil would be capable of such bad planning :schnoz:.The real complication is probably the demon child. I don't know how "close' the child is to Guts' heart. But if there was one factor that could change whether or not Griffith is "sacrificable" ... the demon child would be it. At least in regards to Guts sacrificing him.

Or another interesting thought would just be Griffith as a sacrifice in general. Not for some apostle but for the whole world. He certainly fits the savior or messiah persona. Maybe he'll be used to do something on a global scale.  :griffnotevil:

Xem

  • Guest
Not that it would ever happen, of that it's even possible, but I think if there's a hint toward Guts "sacrificing" anyone, it's Casca. Think about the time the Beast of Darkness literally referred to him killing her in order to achieve his dream of killing Griffith.

Offline Aazealh

  • 髑髏の騎士
  • Administrator
  • Of Terror
  • *****
  • Posts: 18399
  • Karma: 624
  • Gender: Male
  • そうはいかぬ
I don't know if it would be right to mix the God Hand or apostles in general into the mix. Considering that Slan tried to tempt and entice Guts by asking him if he wanted to make a sacrifice like Griffith and her comment about how interesting it would be if Guts joined them. I would say that a sacrifice making a sacrifice is actually plausible.

Sorry but I don't think that means much. Slan was clearly just teasing him. If you want to argue about the feasibility of such a thing, then you should rather consider the case of the beherit-apostle, though by all means it is a very special and exceptional case.

Miura developing the Beast of Darkness within Guts, establishes a kind of worry or fear in the reader. That maybe Guts will one day use the Beherit.

I disagree. The Beast of Darkness is a psychological enemy. Its whole point is actually that Guts could become a monster without becoming an apostle (especially now, in conjunction with the Berserk's armor).

The Beast of Darkness hates apostles and the God Hand just like Guts does, since it's basically just a part of him. Even more so in fact, as revenge is its only concern. And so far it has never hinted at using the beherit, quite the contrary. In volume 23, when referring to Casca as a sacrifice, it encouraged Guts to kill her, not to become an apostle, but in order to nurture his hatred. So that only hate would remain, unadulterated.

Would Miura allow Guts to truly become a monster? Probably not but it's still a great plot device and Miura uses it to great effect. I guess what I'm saying is that Miura hints at the possibility. It most likely won't happen. But it's still there and that's what's interesting.

I would say that it is certain beyond the shadow of a doubt that Guts will never become an apostle. No need for "probably" here. And I don't think Miura's been hinting at it either. We've never seen Guts himself being tempted to do it.

As for Griffith, I don't think he qualifies as a sacrifice for Guts. Or as a sacrifice in general. An eclipse ceremony only happens once every 216 years and it probably requires a lot of manipulation from the Idea of Evil for each potential member. Centuries of manipulation actually, to establish a GH member just so that member can be sacrificed in order to create a new apostle? To me that sounds on par with sacrificing your Queen in chess just to save your peon.

And Griffith isn't just a regular member of the God Hand, but the one chosen to be incarnated into the world. Which happens once in a thousand years. There's no need to go that far anyway; the whole idea is just silly.

Not that it would ever happen, of that it's even possible, but I think if there's a hint toward Guts "sacrificing" anyone, it's Casca.

Of course. She's very clearly the one person for Guts, and she can't be sacrificed again.