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Community => Shootin' the Breeze => Movies, TV, Books & Music => Topic started by: Oburi on May 22, 2017, 03:02:02 PM

Title: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Oburi on May 22, 2017, 03:02:02 PM
So I just watched the first two episodes of the new Twin Peaks (pats 1 and 2 together, making a full hour and half long episode) and without reveling anything or spoiling anything I think it's safe to say that this was exactly what the fans were waiting for. Even if all you want is some classic Lynch storytelling, its all there. I dont think anyone will be disappointed.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Griffith on May 22, 2017, 03:50:35 PM
I dont think anyone will be disappointed.

Famous last words. :carcus:
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Grail on May 22, 2017, 03:53:39 PM
Gob and I were able to watch all of the new episodes of Twin Peaks at once last night (West coast, baybeee!), and it truly a pure "Lynch" experience. Even after four hours of viewing, I felt excited and ready for more. I'm inclined to agree with Oburi that Lynch is setting us up for a very fun adventure!

I want to keep the spoilery talk minimal for those who haven't seen all 4 episodes yet, but I'm curious to know what sort of theories everybody has about the following things: the existence of Dougie and his connection to Cooper and "Booper" (the new nickname for Bob+Cooper that makes me crack up whenever I use it), the whole South Dakota plotline, and of course, the mysterious BAWX in New York! I have to say, I think that I assumed that the new show would jump right back into the cozy "feel" of the original series, where so far it's been dense and at times uncomfortable to watch. Not that it bothers me, mind you, I'm just interested to know where Lynch is taking us. As Gob and I noted while watching last night, lack of music and long, lingering shots seem to be the new norm for the series.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Salem on May 22, 2017, 04:07:27 PM
I love Lynch but never got around to watching Twin Peaks.   One of the few shows I want to stream and plan to do so soon.  Heard no spoilers.   I'll stay clear of this topic until I'm done.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: residentgrigo on May 22, 2017, 06:44:56 PM
Twin Peaks: The Return came back in style! In a giant 4 hour chunk too and i also just found out that Twin Peaks: The Missing Pieces exists. It and certainly the new season finally explain what the controversial prequel film was about. The new show is basically a 2nd and more... strictured (?) Fire Walk With Me, as it answers how the inbred child of Eraser Head, Lost Highway and Inland Empire would look like. S03 is that fucking wild and from nearly minute one too! Undeniably the most niche big budget show of ALL time and certainly the most frightening. Just show anyone the scene of Cooper being eaten by an electricity socket or that strobe light tree with a heart for a "head" talking backwards. They will never talk to you again :ganishka: . The unsettling gore is though the roof too.

Long story short. David Lynch is about to create another masterpiece, especially if i consider that the 4th episode then suddenly takes a time out to recreate the 1990/91 original, before veering back into relentless psychological horror in the last 10 minutes. So go back to the classic + film, if you never saw it. Even if S02 historically shat the bed after solving the big mystery. It ended strong though.
Here is a refresher: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxUC8QH8miU  (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxUC8QH8miU)
Get the 3 hard canon books too (don´t ask me which one is the craziest, but The Secret Diary of Laura Palmer is a hard NC-17) and strap yourself in for 18 hours of old man David Lynch without ANY restrain + a final book. Unless someone at Showtime decides to fund these mad men again.
(https://nyoobserver.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/twin-peaks-4.gif)
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Walter on May 23, 2017, 02:45:24 AM
I decided to make a dedicated thread, given that it's what everyone was talking about anyway in the streaming thread.

I just finished the second episode. Pacing myself at an episode a night -- why rush? We aren't getting anymore, and we've waited this long. So far it's almost exactly what I wanted after I heard Lynch would return to the series.

It's thankfully less a "new season" (and the bloatedness that implies these days...) and more like 4 mini Lynch movies that dramatically expand on the scenario where Twin Peaks left off, and yet somehow doesn't overplay its hand. Which, I mean, I couldn't ask for more. It didn't dawn on me until I started watching it just how delicate it would be to try and pick up the pieces 25 years later. But Lynch approaches it in his trademark "I don't give a fuck about what your preconceptions were, this is my show" fashion, which is heartening.

It'd have been so easy to just go back to the basics and explore all those older characters again, make them the stars. I'm sure many fans would have been pleased with that approach, but not me. I got plenty of that in Season 2. This was the honest path for continuing the story they set out to tell, unafraid to introduce  new characters, and go in surprising yet fitting new directions,and I have a ton of respect for that.

Edit: Lol, I was so wrong... it is a whole new season. I just hope Lynch can keep up this momentum for 18 damned episodes!
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Oburi on May 23, 2017, 11:14:59 AM

It'd have been so easy to just go back to the basics and explore all those older characters again, make them the stars. I'm sure many fans would have been pleased with that approach, but not me. I got plenty of that in Season 2. This was the honest path for continuing the story they set out to tell, unafraid to introduce  new characters, and go in surprising yet fitting new directions,and I have a ton of respect for that.


Exactly my thoughts! What I meant earlier in the other thread about my own waning interest during the second season and some of the narratives that just seemed to drag on endlessly while frankly all I cared about was getting back Cooper and the more Lynch type stuff (which are the best parts of show).  So for the new season to start off the way it has is like the best thing possible for me. Especially after basically writing Lynch off as a filmmaker for years now. I mean, seriously, this is Lynch in the style of Lost Highway, Mulholland Drive, which I really honestly was NOT expecting. The man can still do it like no other filmmaker can. At 71 years old to be producing this kind of material and actually directing in this style, you have to respect that. I don't know what he plans to do after this but since he stated that feature films are out of the question this could be a great sendoff.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: NightCrawler on May 23, 2017, 03:14:28 PM
I'm enjoying it so far. My big problem is fan service. The old characters are tacked in and don't seem to be living in the same world. They seem to be there as a necessary means for Lynch to tell the story he wants to. He has the freedom to make 18 eps of whatever he wants as long as it bears the Twin Peaks name, and it shows. Apart from Cooper, all the scenes with familiar settings/characters seem disjointed, severed from the larger story. 
Visually it was a disappointment as well. Even though it's not Inland Empire digital-bad, it still looks cheap and with really bad cgi. It definitely pulls me out of the whole experience, and immersion in this world is key.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Grail on May 23, 2017, 04:04:37 PM
Visually it was a disappointment as well. Even though it's not Inland Empire digital-bad, it still looks cheap and with really bad cgi. It definitely pulls me out of the whole experience, and immersion in this world is key.

I've been wondering about this as well. Maybe this was intentional, as a way to toy with people's expectations. I found it pretty funny, personally.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: The Beast of Darkness on May 23, 2017, 05:30:56 PM
It didn't bothered personally. I don't watch a series like Twin Peaks expecting great CGI effects.
I loved what I've seen so far.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Eluvei on May 24, 2017, 04:46:11 AM
Visually it was a disappointment as well. Even though it's not Inland Empire digital-bad, it still looks cheap and with really bad cgi. It definitely pulls me out of the whole experience, and immersion in this world is key.

I've been wondering about this as well. Maybe this was intentional, as a way to toy with people's expectations. I found it pretty funny, personally.

It's hard to tell if it's intentional, when in Inland Empire he just didn't care and loved the ease of the shitty camera he used.

It does look drab like some random show no one watches, so it works if we consider this is to Prestige Dramas™ what seasons 1 and 2 were to soap operas (with Invitation to Love and the empty glass box binge-watcher being more direct in making fun of those things).

But there's no way some of the special effects weren't supposed to be funny.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Griffith on May 24, 2017, 05:28:39 AM
I tried talking my wife into watching the new series with me using these common ground explainers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjDa-_Vq51I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICGwfkAYwr0


She declined.

(http://www.skullknight.net/griffith/twinfail.jpg)

Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Walter on May 25, 2017, 01:30:15 AM
I uh... hehe, I was previously under the impression there were only four episodes. There are actually going to be 18  :ganishka:

That is too many...
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Salem on May 27, 2017, 11:33:02 PM
Well....we finished the first episode and I'm so glad this popped up on sk.  I don't frequent many other forums and this group is solid in intelligent criticism.  I am in love.  The characters, which I admit will take time to memorize, are so unique and alive.  The Lynch typical music to the rich landscape. The only dated issue I saw was the roadhouse fight scene.    :ganishka:  Very excited to see where this goes.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: The Beast of Darkness on May 28, 2017, 07:09:58 AM
Well....we finished the first episode and I'm so glad this popped up on sk.  I don't frequent many other forums and this group is solid in intelligent criticism.  I am in love.  The characters, which I admit will take time to memorize, are so unique and alive.  The Lynch typical music to the rich landscape. The only dated issue I saw was the roadhouse fight scene.    :ganishka:  Very excited to see where this goes.

Glad that you like it. Yes, the Roadhouse fight scene is very 80's.  :guts:
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Eluvei on May 31, 2017, 04:56:49 PM
Quote from: http://deadline.com/2017/05/twin-peaks-david-lynch-cannes-showtime-disruptors-news-1202090469/
What are you making at the moment?

I’m making a table, and this table, it’s a side table next to my chair. And it will have a space for two remotes, one pair of glasses, some pens, a yellow pad, a box of Kleenex, and a wine bottle box, plus another door for cigarettes and a lighter, and another door for cheese crackers and things like this. And it has electricity in the table, too—it’s for a lamp on top of the table.

Quote from: http://ew.com/tv/2017/05/26/twin-peaks-david-lynch/
Here is a place for glasses, remote controls, and pens. And here’s a circle with Kleenex coming out. Here’s a larger circle for a wine bottle. This is a door on special hinges that holds cigarettes and lighter. And over on this side is a large door, so this part right here is a place for Parmesan crackers and trail mix and wine glasses and different things. I’m going to have electricity wired into the table — I’m going to have a lamp — so I have a switch right here. And then down here is a drawer that has a place for a yellow pad. If I have an idea, I can take out the yellow pad and write it down with the pens. And it’s on these red wheels. So it’s a side table that holds all the things that I use.

(http://i.imgur.com/r5RD3vE.jpg)

 :???:
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Walter on June 05, 2017, 03:19:46 PM
Spoiler-filled theories based on last night's episode:

A few things are coming together now.

I think Dougie was created by Dopplecooper as a kind of backup plan so he could remain in the world after Cooper came back. But Dopplecooper didn't count on: a) wrecking his car and ultimately being locked up b) the series of assassinations on the newly emerged Cooper to fail. So now he has to work uphill to escape and have Cooper killed, which would presumably remedy his (and Cooper's) current slowness. As to what that is about, our best guess is that it's related to the golden ball we saw come out of Dougie in the Black Lodge (but no idea how that thing got there in the first place).

Alternatatively: Because the failed assassinations were orchestrated by the nervous lady who later called her boss in Buenos Aires, likely Philip Jefferies (David Bowie), it could be that Dougie was also created by Jefferies as a way to weaken Dopplecooper and get to him that way. No idea why Jefferies would need/want Dopplecooper dead.

Dopplecooper's weird, long hair could be result of being possessed by Bob (or just a way to distinguish the two Coopers). We got a confirmation that Bob is still in there, along for the ride in Dopplecooper's mind.

Bill Hastings, played surprisingly well by Matthew Lillard, and his whole murder plot continues to be a strange, loose thread. Was it just one example (of presumably manu) Bob/Dopplecooper teaming up to sow chaos and harvest garmonbozia, like Laura's death was? That was my thought going into this latest episode, but with the appearance of Dougie's wedding ring, suddenly it ties things together. Dougie was wearing the Owl Cave ring on the night of his death, in place of the wedding ring.

The mysterious slasher in the box scene — I don't actually expect that one to be resolved. I think the box served as a portal to the Black Lodge (maybe even more vast than that), and something followed Cooper in. I think that scene just serves an example of the kind of evil shit that can come out of the Black Lodge.

Finally, Cooper had a vision of Laura Palmer visiting him, which was preceded by one-armed-man asking if it was past or future. During the scene, Laura looks up at the sky and screams, as the Black Lodge curtains wave back and forth, ultimately being raised up, and Cooper sees the white horse. I think may have been a scene of the future, with Cooper witnessing the end of the Lodge.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Grail on June 05, 2017, 05:27:04 PM
Another fantastic foray into the mysterious world of Twin Peaks! :ubik: I think that this episode did a great job of answering some questions while bringing up even more mysteries. A few observations:

Cooper seems to be taking his time getting back to his old self. The antics and frustrations that come up as a result of Cooper wandering around in Dougie's life feels very reminiscent of a comedic take on Lost Highway. I'm finding myself very curious about the boy and the addict woman living across the street from Dougie's parked car. I also am wondering what's going to connect the threads of the guys trying to kill Dougie, the $50k that Dougie owes, and the casino people.

Dr. Jacoby's side-business seriously cracked me up. The creep at the Bang Bang Bar that grabbed the girl was pretty scary - Gob has informed me that this guy's name is Richard Horne. Could it be Audrey's son?! Becky reminds me very much of Shelly from back in the original show: young, broke, and romantic. Her husband looks like a dope, but at least he's not an abusive dope. I definitely didn't recognize that the guy whose job he interviewed for was Mike(!).

The South Dakota plotline turned out to be my favorite part of this episode. I can't wait for more revelations on that end of things!
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Walter on June 05, 2017, 06:48:30 PM
Cooper seems to be taking his time getting back to his old self. The antics and frustrations that come up as a result of Cooper wandering around in Dougie's life feels very reminiscent of a comedic take on Lost Highway

I feel like I should be frustrated at the delayed gratification happening here, but I'm mostly having a blast, laughing my ass off at the antics. "Damn good Joe!"  :ganishka: So close... That elevator scene too. There's still some Cooper in all of his scenes, even if he's basically an invalid.

Quote
I'm finding myself very curious about the boy and the addict woman living across the street from Dougie's parked car.

There are no answers, but I think that story might have just wrapped up in the latest episode. We'll see.

Quote
I also am wondering what's going to connect the threads of the guys trying to kill Dougie, the $50k that Dougie owes, and the casino people.

The creep at the Bang Bang Bar that grabbed the girl was pretty scary - Gob has informed me that this guy's name is Richard Horne. Could it be Audrey's son?!

If so, it would make sense for his age -- otherwise, maybe an illegitimate son of Ben's?

Quote
Becky reminds me very much of Shelly from back in the original show: young, broke, and romantic. Her husband looks like a dope, but at least he's not an abusive dope.

Maybe, but he seems like an enabling dope though.

Quote
I definitely didn't recognize that the guy whose job he interviewed for was Mike(!)

As soon as I saw a blonde male character in a suit, I knew it'd be him. And then his steely eyes, and his asshole demeanor confirmed it.  :guts:
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Eluvei on June 06, 2017, 04:26:43 AM
The mysterious slasher in the box scene — I don't actually expect that one to be resolved. I think the box served as a portal to the Black Lodge (maybe even more vast than that), and something followed Cooper in. I think that scene just serves an example of the kind of evil shit that can come out of the Black Lodge.

I'm not entirely convinced by it, but this is interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-BDU-TvlTg

The creep at the Bang Bang Bar that grabbed the girl was pretty scary

Probably my favorite scene in the show so far. That actor was born for this role, what a reptile face.

Really strange, entertaining episode. Jacoby's thing was absolutely nuts, I'm sure everyone thought his shovel painting had some sinister, Black Lodgey meaning behind it. :ganishka:

The humor in the Sheriff Department is kinda baffling to me. I first thought Lynch was trying to make Andy and Lucy appear sad and mentally ill but his insistence on putting in some brief Andy comic relief in this episode has me thinking it's just supposed to be funny. Lucy not understanding cell phones and passing out is kind of a follow up to her scene in Fire Walk With Me: The Missing Pieces, where she doesn't understand that it's possible to put down a phone mid-conversation and walk away, but it reminded me of bad scenes from Season 2, like straight up Little Nicky stuff. I'm not complaining, it adds to how alien this whole thing feels.

I don't understand why Norma called that guy who works at the diner Toad. Toad was the fat customer in the original series. I demand an explanation.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Walter on June 06, 2017, 11:00:45 AM
I'm not entirely convinced by it, but this is interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-BDU-TvlTg

Wow! I'm convinced. Not sure why I didn't realize it sooner, but the odd movements of the things are definitely similar.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Eluvei on June 08, 2017, 06:17:51 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/r5RD3vE.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/hg6eBSn.jpg)

 :ganishka:
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Skeleton on June 08, 2017, 09:51:08 PM
That's awesome. :ganishka:
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Walter on June 14, 2017, 01:41:21 PM
That Cooper homework scene was an inspiration to procrastinators everywhere  :ganishka:
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Eluvei on June 14, 2017, 07:06:12 PM
The most surreal thing so far is that no one killed and disposed of Heidi's body in all these years. What an impossibly irritating laugh. :azan:
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Gobolatula on June 15, 2017, 12:30:01 AM
The most surreal thing so far is that no one killed and disposed of Heidi's body in all these years. What an impossibly irritating laugh. :azan:
Heidi is a national treasure. A German national treasure rightfully claimed by America.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Grail on June 15, 2017, 03:30:56 AM
Wondering what folks have made of the Arthurian connection yet. The Black Lodge is connected to Glastonbury Grove - Dougie lives on Lancelot Court, and Janey E. arranges to meet those men in a park with a cross-street called Guinevere. There's a chin-rubber!
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Eluvei on June 19, 2017, 04:27:10 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/ENsIGDZ.jpg)
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: The Beast of Darkness on June 23, 2017, 04:15:00 PM
Part 7 was so damn good. Especially loved the scenes involving Diane and the one with Cooper disarming "The Spike".

Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Walter on June 26, 2017, 03:38:37 AM
Pretty insane episode. Parts were reminiscent of Lynch's early works, including Eraserhead. Though unconventional, it wasn't TOO hard to follow if you just make your mind squint a bit. It seems to be about the origin of Bob.

The nuclear blast in 1945 did some kind of damage to the realm where the beings of the black lodge and white lodge reside, which not only caused the woodsmen to manifest, but it also seems to be why/how Bob was unleashed by some flying evil thing's vomit. His egg took 11 years to hatch in the desert, and with the help of the woodsman, it embedded itself into a host, and presumably will be born into someone who will become the first host of Bob. Meanwhile, the white lodge people see all of this happening and send their own vessel into the world.

PS: THE Nine Inch Nails!   :slan:
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Nothingwillbewong on June 26, 2017, 12:18:38 PM
Pretty insane episode. Parts were reminiscent of Lynch's early works, including Eraserhead. Though unconventional, it wasn't TOO hard to follow if you just make your mind squint a bit. It seems to be about the origin of Bob.

The nuclear blast in 1945 did some kind of damage to the realm where the beings of the black lodge and white lodge reside, which not only caused the woodsmen to manifest, but it also seems to be why/how Bob was unleashed by some flying evil thing's vomit. His egg took 11 years to hatch in the desert, and with the help of the woodsman, it embedded itself into a host, and presumably will be born into someone who will become the first host of Bob. Meanwhile, the white lodge people see all of this happening and send their own vessel into the world.

PS: THE Nine Inch Nails!   :slan:

Walter I can't thank you enough for expaining perfectly what i thought was incoherent mess, how the fuck did you pick up on this, maybe I'm just this dumb, still was a thrill to watch just for the weirdness and visual epicness
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Eluvei on June 26, 2017, 01:18:55 PM
The nuke sequence was really impressive, in fact all the effects in this episode looked fantastic. Can't believe Club Silencio was in the White Lodge this whole time.

I haven't been this impressed by a piece of media in a long time, can't stop thinking about how amazing it was. There won't be an episode next week, so we can watch this episode every day for two weeks.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Walter on June 26, 2017, 01:58:15 PM
Can't believe Club Silencio was in the White Lodge this whole time.

Not just Silencio, but also perhaps this scene from Eraserhead: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmyzYBeGrE8

Orrrrrr it's just David Lynch's signature style bleeding through to his various works.  :void:

Walter I can't thank you enough for expaining perfectly what i thought was incoherent mess, how the fuck did you pick up on this, maybe I'm just this dumb, still was a thrill to watch just for the weirdness and visual epicness

Happy to help! As for how? I dunno, I could be wrong after all, but some of the things in the show just seem to make sense to me. Still, I can't explain everything that happened in that episode :ganishka:


Aside from the Bob origin story, the big revelation in this episode for me was that Philip Jefferies is indeed behind most of the backstabbing plots happening around Evil Coop. Perhaps he was trying to get Bob out of Evil Coop? If so, mission accomplished, but now what? How his character will manifest moving forward (without David Bowie...) is a mystery.

The new scenes with the woodsmen shed a little light on what happened with Bill Hastings (Matthew Lillard's character). The woodsman's presence in the jail is like a paper trail for manipulation by whatever Black Lodge forces are at work, as if that wasn't already obvious. I also think it's clear that after Evil Coop was shot, they were safeguarding Bob (taking him where...?) --  but then Evil Coop woke up, so I can't really explain why those two had to be separated. In any case, it's also not clear why it was "good" that Bob was with Evil Coop (that he could share some of his power?), or if it's "bad" for Coop now that Bob isn't inhabiting his body.

Another crazy thing that occurred to me while watching this episode -- if the body in the morgue is indeed Major Briggs, and the ring will point investigators to Dougie Jones' family, instead of that resulting in him being mired in some murder investigation, I wonder if that whole scenario was concocted by Briggs or someone from the White Lodge in order to rescue Coop from obscurity, and rejoin him with his colleagues. Counteracting all of that is the woodsman's presence in the morgue, which generally would mean it's a scenario being manipulated by the Black Lodge. I don't really have a good explanation otherwise for those two things (Briggs' corpse and the wedding ring).


This show is so much weirder than the original series...
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Nothingwillbewong on June 26, 2017, 02:15:38 PM
This show is so much weirder than the original series...

Give David Lynch full control and you may get the best or the worst  :troll:, but you'll get full Lynchian stuff that's for sure ahah. I'm glad they arent holding him back tho, cause atleast this season no matter what happens will always have alot of artistic value and weird genius worth revisiting not found anywhere else in mainstream tv.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Grail on June 26, 2017, 04:08:40 PM
This was definitely one of those episodes that will help you to improve your Lynchian vocabulary. :ganishka: It has a lot in common with Eraserhead, Mulholland Drive, and Lost Highway, but to me, still had a very distinct Twin Peaks feel, probably (to my surprise) I was able to unpack so much of it while it was happening. If anyone hasn't yet started on the History of Twin Peaks, this two week break might be a good time to get into it (I'm still working on it myself, but am already seeing some connections).

Gob and I were discussing the significance of the "birthing" of Laura Palmer's soul (or so it's heavily suggested in this episode). I'm still not sure how I feel about the idea of Laura being produced as an anti-Bob measure. I always liked the idea of Laura just being an ordinary girl faced with unspeakable evil. Anyone else have thoughts on this?
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Eluvei on June 26, 2017, 04:14:51 PM
Not just Silencio, but also perhaps this scene from Eraserhead: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmyzYBeGrE8

It's definitely similar, but I meant he actually shot that in the same location he used for Club Silencio (http://i.imgur.com/wE4bL2D.jpg, http://i.imgur.com/2U3I8Pt.jpg). The radiator set from Eraserhead was built inside the Doheny Mansion.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Walter on June 26, 2017, 04:34:40 PM
It's definitely similar, but I meant he actually shot that in the same location he used for Club Silencio (http://i.imgur.com/wE4bL2D.jpg, http://i.imgur.com/2U3I8Pt.jpg). The radiator set from Eraserhead was built inside the Doheny Mansion.

Oh! Well then!  :isidro:

If anyone hasn't yet started on the History of Twin Peaks, this two week break might be a good time to get into it (I'm still working on it myself, but am already seeing some connections).

I've got it on audiobook, but I had to stop listening around the time that I realized an hour of my life had disappeared while listening to the love and laments of Big Ed Hurley.  :schierke: I need to soldier on and finish it, but I can't say that it's been a fun endeavor so far. Lots of background on bit characters that I honestly don't care about, and even though it's written by Mark Frost, often the character portrayals feel off to me. The mere idea of Cooper using a typewriter to write about the background of his friends, and keeping it hidden for the Bookhouse Boys to find later was just.... what the actual fuck? Hawk writing a "ballad" about Ed and Nadine? Is this shit for real?

Quote
Gob and I were discussing the significance of the "birthing" of Laura Palmer's soul (or so it's heavily suggested in this episode). I'm still not sure how I feel about the idea of Laura being produced as an anti-Bob measure. I always liked the idea of Laura just being an ordinary girl faced with unspeakable evil. Anyone else have thoughts on this? Please tell me it gets better, because I'm drowning.

I feel like Laura was an ordinary girl who didn't become who she was meant to be until after her death. She seems pretty significant in the Lodge, now.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Nothingwillbewong on June 26, 2017, 04:46:28 PM
Another thing, which I think might be too obvious to point out, but do you think the fact that the frog creature is a mix of a frog and a locust like in the plagues in exodus has any relevance?
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Walter on June 26, 2017, 04:58:08 PM
Another thing, which I think might be too obvious to point out, but do you think the fact that the frog creature is a mix of a frog and a locust like in the plagues in exodus has any relevance?

I think a Biblical reference would be weird for Lynch, personally. I think he might just like the unsettling nature of the creature in general. For me it reminded me of the "baby" in Eraserhead.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Eluvei on June 28, 2017, 10:20:53 PM
This was definitely one of those episodes that will help you to improve your Lynchian vocabulary. :ganishka: It has a lot in common with Eraserhead, Mulholland Drive, and Lost Highway

I don't know if you guys have seen it, but this is really interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uDsVi2EU_E
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: The Beast of Darkness on June 29, 2017, 07:38:25 AM
I don't know if you guys have seen it, but this is really interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uDsVi2EU_E

Thank you for sharing. I've never seen this one... that golden orb...
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Walter on June 29, 2017, 12:22:50 PM
While we're making callbacks:

The fancy table where Mike places the ring in Ep 3 is the same table in Fire Walk With Me, where Cooper has his talk with the Man from Another Place, who asks him "is this future or is this past?"

Also in Fire Walk With Me, we see the woodsmen (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASdmYsbW-cY) in the "room above the convenience store," (which also features flashes of light) all of which featured prominently in the latest episode. In the same scene linked above, we see the same telephone pole (same numbers on it), at the scene where the boy was killed.

In another Fire Walk with Me scene (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GT6ybRtZsw), Philip Jeffries points at the real Cooper, asking the group "Who do you think this is, there?" Which is likely an allusion to the scenario we're in now, with evil Coop inhabiting his body, and Jeffries is lost in time.

Which is all to say that despite the seeming incoherentness, this is a pretty well planned series.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Tabris on June 29, 2017, 04:58:04 PM
I'm loving the hell out of the new Twin Peaks. Though I'm no expert in the lore of it (I just finished watching the originals and movies recently), I'm stoked to start dismantling it when this series is finished with. It's just such a cool ride and this new season is bringing forth a lot of new atmospheres to the already dense and rich atmosphere of the original. Fuck ya.

That last episode was madness though. I loved it. Not to mention "The" Nine Inch Nails full performance of She's Gone. Holy shit.

Can't help but feel Lynch is fully capable of far more weirder shit for us in the future of this season too.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Walter on June 30, 2017, 03:37:07 PM
Interview with the standout performance of the last episode:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/twin-peaks-meet-man-behind-david-lynchs-new-nightmare-1018088
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: The Beast of Darkness on June 30, 2017, 04:15:16 PM
In another Fire Walk with Me scene (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GT6ybRtZsw), Philip Jeffries points at the real Cooper, asking the group "Who do you think this is, there?" Which is likely an allusion to the scenario we're in now, with evil Coop inhabiting his body, and Jeffries is lost in time.

Which is all to say that despite the seeming incoherentness, this is a pretty well planned series.

Rewatching that scene, I remember it but I forgot about Jeffries pointing at Cooper and saying: "Who do you think this is, there?".
You're right about that... it all make sense now !


I'll take some time to rewatch the 8 parts and continue reading TSHOTP during next week... in the waiting of part 9.

The scenes that creeped me out the most in part 8 were the woodsmen "assaulting" the car ("Lincoln" scene in the radio station too) and the bug/frog creature crawling inside the girl's mouth...
The question is: who did she became the host of ? The egg that hatched looked like any other that we could see inside "Mother"s vomit, while BOB's one showed his face clearly and was way bigger.
Seeing NIN performing "She's Gone Away" was pretty cool. The lyrics had some sense here.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Walter on June 30, 2017, 05:08:05 PM
Rewatching that scene, I remember it but I forgot about Jeffries pointing at Cooper and saying: "Who do you think this is, there?".
You're right about that... it all make sense now !

It made sense by the time of Fire Walk with Me too, since we already knew by the time of the S2 finale that Evil Coop had possessed Good Coop's body. It just makes EXTRA sense now.

Quote
The question is: who did she became the host of ? The egg that hatched looked like any other that we could see inside "Mother"s vomit, while BOB's one showed his face clearly and was way bigger.

I saw this confusing some others too, but to me I mean -- who else would it be? Bob's was the only face we saw in that cluster of eggs, even though his "essence" looked a little different.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: The Beast of Darkness on June 30, 2017, 05:33:05 PM
It made sense by the time of Fire Walk with Me too, since we already knew by the time of the S2 finale that Evil Coop had possessed Good Coop's body. It just makes EXTRA sense now.

Yes, I also thought about about S2 finale while typing my reply to your quote, but yeah, you got what I meant. ;)

I saw this confusing some others too, but to me I mean -- who else would it be? Bob's was the only face we saw in that cluster of eggs, even though his "essence" looked a little different.

I know that this episode is focusing a lot on BOB but what if they are misleading us and the creature is MIKE ? The size of the egg, etc... it's too different to be BOB's one in my opinion. Also... look at the "egg" with BOB's face coming out of Evil Cooper, it looks the same as in the vomit. I mean, the woodsmen didn't removed a creature from his body, they removed the same object.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Walter on June 30, 2017, 07:17:32 PM
Yes, I also thought about about S2 finale while typing my reply to your quote, but yeah, you got what I meant. ;)

I know that this episode is focusing a lot on BOB but what if they are misleading us and the creature is MIKE ? The size of the egg, etc... it's too different to be BOB's one in my opinion. Also... look at the "egg" with BOB's face coming out of Evil Cooper, it looks the same as in the vomit. I mean, the woodsmen didn't removed a creature from his body, they removed the same object.

Could be, I guess. It just seems like an awful lot of time to focus on the birth of NOT the main villain.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: The Beast of Darkness on June 30, 2017, 07:31:06 PM
Could be, I guess. It just seems like an awful lot of time to focus on the birth of NOT the main villain.

Yes, I agree with that too. We will see soon enough anyway (I hope lol). But the "process" of the egg/creature/first host is really fucked up (for Twin Peaks I mean), I wasn't expecting something like that.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Walter on June 30, 2017, 07:35:35 PM
Yes, I agree with that too. We will soon enough anyway (I hope lol). But the "process" of the egg/creature/first host is really fucked up (for Twin Peaks I mean), I wasn't expecting something like that.

It does seem incredibly involved for an origin story, instead of what could have been: "they're powerful and evil so they can just manifest." Lynch doesn't seem like the kind of guy to create rules for things, but here we are!
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Natt_Himmel on July 01, 2017, 02:27:02 PM
Some people may have noticed that Carel Struycken is credited as just "???????" in Season 3 instead of "The Giant" as he was in Season 2. There being seven question marks.

If you check out the recent soundtrack you see that the song that was played during The Giants most recent scene you'll notice that it is called "The Fireman".

Now it makes sense in the way that The Giant is alerted by an alarm and he goes off to most likely avert or remove the danger. Now "Fireman" also contains seven letters.

It could also make sense that if The Giants purpose is to save or fight against the black lodge, whose evil is often connected with fire, such as with the quote "Fire walk with me". So it makes sense that The Giant is the fireman to put out the fire caused by the black lodge. So is it possible that his new name is "The Fireman"?

(http://i.imgur.com/PSBtQjr.jpg)
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Walter on July 02, 2017, 11:56:05 AM
That image did a fair job of unconvincing me of all that text  :badbone:
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: alexenterprises1 on July 07, 2017, 12:28:20 AM
Another interesting interview, this time with Kyle MacLachlan, has popped up. Very interesting read.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/twin-peaks-star-kyle-maclachlan-promises-everything-will-make-sense-1019076
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: The Beast of Darkness on July 07, 2017, 09:12:23 AM
I forgot to mention it:The locust/frog have a pointy nose. So, it could very well be "The Little Boy" or "The Jumping Man" from FWWM.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: VengeanceQuest982 on July 08, 2017, 03:07:58 PM
...The boy in the 1950s segment of part 8 was a dead ringer for a young Frank Silva (BOB). Anyone here going to comic-con 2017 if you are you'll get to see part 11 early.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Walter on July 10, 2017, 01:54:11 AM
For those who saw tonight's ep: http://thesearchforthezone.com/

This is the kickoff of an ARG, apparently.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Walter on July 17, 2017, 01:49:05 AM
This isn't a spoiler at all, but I'm really going to be sad when Dougie Jones is inevitably ushered off the stage. He's still around, and I'm already missing him.

Missing him.

Highlights from tonight's ep:

Doug-eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Nadine's business exterior.
Albert's date and Gordon/Lynch's reaction.
Confirmation that the Horne family tree is fucked up.
Diane's apparent role in what's to come.
Candy.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Griffith on July 23, 2017, 02:27:11 PM
After a rough start (we somehow saw episodes 2 & 3 before the feature length pilot; talk about surreal storytelling =) we're almost done with season 1 of Twin Peaks, but I've heard bad things about season 2 and Lynch's lack of involvement (here, no less), and the movie isn't highly regarded as well, which leads to my question... I'm impatient to join everyone on season 3, but is season 2 and/or the film necessary to understand and enjoy it or are they largely ignored? I'm assuming it's the former but figured I'd ask in case season 2 is considered irrelevant or something and I can save the 22 hours.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Walter on July 23, 2017, 02:40:47 PM
but is season 2 and/or the film necessary to understand and enjoy it or are they largely ignored?

Understanding what happens in Season 2 and Fire Walk With Me is absolutely vital to following the new season. There are many scenes, characters, even props, where the meaning is left unexplained, relying on the audience to piece it together. That being said, Season 2 ...  taken at a leisurely pace, I think there are bits that are genuinely good. But they are few and far between the absolute crap. I had the pleasure of watching it with friends back when the show wasn't even on DVD yet (on tapes recorded when it was airing — with commercials), and we laughed through most of it and had a blast. Watching it solo now, with the knowledge of much better things on the horizon, I can totally understand someone squirming through it.  :guts: So if you're racing to catch up with us, and I don't blame you, I'd advise reading up on what happens (this is good enough (http://twinpeaks.wikia.com/wiki/Twin_Peaks), followed by watching this video I guess (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_64-4c_E3o)? ), and then dive straight into the finale, which marks Lynch's return, and is amazing.

Also, I'm struggling to think of something that was wrong with Fire Walk With Me. As I understand it, it had bad initial reception (in 1992), I suppose because it followed on the heels of the up-and-down Season 2. But distanced from those strange early days, you won't find much to complain about now. It's quite loved by Twin Peaks fans.


Finally, hey guys, I finished the Untold History of Twin Peaks book, and I thought it was truly awful. Ask me anything!
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Grail on July 23, 2017, 03:12:40 PM
This chart has come in handy when revisiting Season 2 (http://imgur.com/pkqdoEW). That said, I would still recommend suffering through the second season in its entirety, if you can manage it without doing this -->  :mozgus:

I think that, like Walter said, Fire Walk with Me got a bad rap back in the 90s, but among Lynch fans nowadays, it's all good. So go forth and enjoy, once you're done with the rest of Season 2, that is. :carcus:

One piece of advice I would give is that you shouldn't necessarily feel like you need to rush to the "finish line" that is Season 3. Try to enjoy the ride and have a good time before worrying too much about the grand scheme of the Twin Peaks universe. You can only enjoy those big moments once!

Finally, hey guys, I finished the Untold History of Twin Peaks book, and I thought it was truly awful. Ask me anything!

Bummer! I still haven't gotten around to finishing the audiobook version, myself. I found a lot of the initial history to be dreadfully dry, but once I got past some of the more lengthy explanations, it was a lot more enjoyable. One thing I'm confused about (based on what I've heard from others) is how there are some apparent inconsistencies with the show that have lead people to believe that the book's referencing an "alternate" Twin Peaks in which some events involving the cast are slightly different. What's your take on that?

All that aside, I'm excited for the new episode tonight. Lynch has been doing a great job of juggling surreal/metaphysical and more mundane events in the show, and the past few episodes have been a fantastic example. I, too, am relishing every moment we have now with Dougie. Is anybody else bothered by Tammy's distracting wiggle-walk? I wonder if the actress was specifically directed by Lynch to do that. It just doesn't look natural.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Walter on July 23, 2017, 03:49:04 PM
This chart has come in handy when revisiting Season 2 (http://imgur.com/pkqdoEW).

This is awesome.

Quote
Bummer! I still haven't gotten around to finishing the audiobook version, myself. I found a lot of the initial history to be dreadfully dry, but once I got past some of the more lengthy explanations, it was a lot more enjoyable.

I can imagine that reading the actual book is probably a better experience, because the source materials are laid out like actual notes. That's cooler than the audiobook, which even though it gets some narrations from the actual cast, their performances are mostly phoned in (Cooper's in particular, Christ!). It just bugged me the direction they went, the things they were interested in focusing on, it all seemed so tedious and peripheral to the stuff I actually care about. Maybe fans of the goddamned Martell / Packard / Horne rivalry are just bonered up for it though. That stuff on top of all the Nadine, high school football, and Josie crap that populates the book, retconning the mayor's brother into being a key character ... It just all reeked of crap, to me.

Quote
One thing I'm confused about (based on what I've heard from others) is how there are some apparent inconsistencies with the show that have lead people to believe that the book's referencing an "alternate" Twin Peaks in which some events involving the cast are slightly different. What's your take on that?

Yeah I came across some of that after looking online for "did I miss why this book was important?" But, I don't put much stock into those notions, because it seems like a case of the fans being too familiar with the material, and see more significance in details like inconsistent maiden names and where rings were on fingers -- the kinds of details that could easily have just been oversights. The competing timeline and reality theory has been brought up a few times, over on Reddit, but consistently gets disproven by things like Jade mailing the key (and it arriving in Twin Peaks shortly after). Fans will be fans!
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Griffith on July 23, 2017, 08:08:28 PM
Season 2: Bad but essential, just as I'd feared. I may have to go it alone. :ganishka:

I'll let you know what I think of season 1 once we wrap it up. It's not as weird as I'd expected yet, probably because TV has had plenty of room to grow just as weird in the meantime, though definitely offbeat as hell and I'm enjoying all the 80's faces I'm recognizing. It's a bit of a weird experience that it's nostalgic for me when I haven't seen it before.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: The Beast of Darkness on July 23, 2017, 09:09:29 PM
Is anybody else bothered by Tammy's distracting wiggle-walk? I wonder if the actress was specifically directed by Lynch to do that. It just doesn't look natural.

I guess she's exaggerating it a little bit but I wouldn't say I'm bothered by it in my case... it's mesmerizing... :slan:
I've read a lot of hate for her character but personally, I like her.


Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Walter on July 23, 2017, 11:27:11 PM
Is anybody else bothered by Tammy's distracting wiggle-walk? I wonder if the actress was specifically directed by Lynch to do that. It just doesn't look natural.

I find a lot about her problematic.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: NightCrawler on July 24, 2017, 04:45:19 PM
After a rough start (we somehow saw episodes 2 & 3 before the feature length pilot; talk about surreal storytelling =) we're almost done with season 1 of Twin Peaks, but I've heard bad things about season 2 and Lynch's lack of involvement (here, no less), and the movie isn't highly regarded as well, which leads to my question... I'm impatient to join everyone on season 3, but is season 2 and/or the film necessary to understand and enjoy it or are they largely ignored? I'm assuming it's the former but figured I'd ask in case season 2 is considered irrelevant or something and I can save the 22 hours.

The movie not being highly regarded is only because it feels nothing like the show. It's an amazing horror movie, my 4th favorite Lynch, and features the best soundtrack of all his films. Kermode explains why it was panned and reviews it best - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrpAyb438Sc

Skip season 2 after episode 8 or 9 and just watch the finale, you won't miss a thing. I say rush it, unless you're reaaaally into it (highly doubt it). Even the supposed "less bad" parts of season 2 are quickly put aside by Lynch in the finale.

I've read a lot of hate for her character but personally, I like her.

She's a singer not an actress, and a friend of Lynch's, who likes to hang around hot young ladies. Her singer persona is kinda oversexed as well. I find Dern as Diane way more annoying.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Walter on July 24, 2017, 07:22:38 PM
She's a singer not an actress, and a friend of Lynch's, who likes to hang around hot young ladies. Her singer persona is kinda oversexed as well.

My concern is more with the leering nature of some of her scenes. The butt of the joke in one scene is literally her righteous butt. It just feels cheap in an otherwise sll-star production. But hey, "SHE'S GOT THE GOODS," so maybe I just need to "fix my heart or die."  :iva:

I find Dern as Diane way more annoying.

You may as well complain about the character at this point, since no one has portrayed Diane before.

Regarding last night's ep, the standout scenes for me were the R+R shooting and of course, Gordon's experience with the vortex (at 2240 Sycamore). I was also pleased that the Jim Belushi scenes are seemingly coming to a close, after feeling long-in-the-tooth 2 episodes ago, christ. Only 7 more eps.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: NightCrawler on July 25, 2017, 09:15:02 PM
My concern is more with the leering nature of some of her scenes. The butt of the joke in one scene is literally her righteous butt. It just feels cheap in an otherwise sll-star production. But hey, "SHE'S GOT THE GOODS," so maybe I just need to "fix my heart or die."  :iva:

I agree that her scenes are bad and void of purpose. Since I knew who she was beforehand, I just decided to not give much importance to her character. So much that I don't even remember that joke.

Quote
You may as well complain about the character at this point, since no one has portrayed Diane before

Indeed. I should've said it differently. Diane, the character, is annoying.

Off topic: I haven't posted in a while, but I don't get why my post deserved several downvotes.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Walter on July 26, 2017, 02:11:40 AM
Pause the staircase scene in the latest ep. There's some familiar, floral wallpaper in the background. Might have seen it in a particular painting of a doorway from Fire Walks With Me.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Oburi on July 27, 2017, 02:53:08 PM
Season 2: Bad but essential, just as I'd feared. I may have to go it alone. :ganishka:

I'll let you know what I think of season 1 once we wrap it up. It's not as weird as I'd expected yet, probably because TV has had plenty of room to grow just as weird in the meantime, though definitely offbeat as hell and I'm enjoying all the 80's faces I'm recognizing. It's a bit of a weird experience that it's nostalgic for me when I haven't seen it before.

I didn't watch the show until years after either, I ran into the same problems as you. For everything I had heard about it, it wasn't quite as strange and surreal as I was expecting, especially already being a mega Lynch fan. Although, like you said, it has it's charm and is somehow nostalgic anyway and I really grew to love it. Then season 2 happened ... It's a slog to get through. I must have amnesia about it too because so much of the final third of that season is erased from my memory (save the final of course). But the movie is really cool and essential. I just wish there was a special edition of the movie where the Missing Pieces segments were back in, because there's some great stuff in there too.

But hang in there Griff! This new season is paying off awesomely well. It's everything I wanted in the original series but felt there wasn't enough of. Some of these more surreal episodes are classic Lynch with nightmare inducing sequences. I'm absolutely loving it, even though I haven't put in the time or effort most others have to unlocking all the secrets, leaving me quite confused at moments   :schnoz:
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Griffith on July 27, 2017, 04:29:09 PM
I didn't watch the show until years after either, I ran into the same problems as you. For everything I had heard about it, it wasn't quite as strange and surreal as I was expecting, especially already being a mega Lynch fan. Although, like you said, it has it's charm and is somehow nostalgic anyway and I really grew to love it.

Well, I haven't quite hit the "grown to love" point yet, it definitely has it's moments (basically with Cooper) and seems to be getting weirder (better), but I'm now a couple episodes into season 2 and firmly giving it (and all you fans =) the side eye and going, "O-kaaaaay, yeah, ayyyye GET it, BRILLIANT!" *backs away slowly, makes no eye contact* For all its charms I'm not seeing the big deal, and at this point the show seems to almost purposely be trying to engage in an antagonistic relationship with the audience at times... but maybe that is good! I mean, I haven't stopped yet, it's stimulating in a weird way, but I'm still firmly in Homer Simpson mode:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjDa-_Vq51I

Then season 2 happened ... It's a slog to get through. I must have amnesia about it too because so much of the final third of that season is erased from my memory (save the final of course).

This is where I'm running into trouble, because if the best is behind me, and what's behind me I didn't find so great, and even the fans think this part's not so great... then where's the great part again!? Is it the sum of the parts? Ugh! I guess it happened and I just don't get it. *puts on dunce cap* :???:

But the movie is really cool and essential. I just wish there was a special edition of the movie where the Missing Pieces segments were back in, because there's some great stuff in there too.

But hang in there Griff! This new season is paying off awesomely well. It's everything I wanted in the original series but felt there wasn't enough of. Some of these more surreal episodes are classic Lynch with nightmare inducing sequences. I'm absolutely loving it, even though I haven't put in the time or effort most others have to unlocking all the secrets, leaving me quite confused at moments   :schnoz:

Well, here's where my head is at the moment: I don't think I can go through 20 more episodes like the last two I watched if something doesn't really grab me besides the occasional "lol they're fucking with me" moment or genuinely scary Lynch nightmare sequence, so my plan after the advice and resources I've been offered here is to go with Nighty's middle way and watch to the middle of season 2, where I understand it kind of gets away from the Lynch/Frost MO anyway, then read summaries of the following episodes as Wally suggested, jump to the finale, the movie, and start season 3. I don't particularly like this half-measure, but it's hard to swallow an extra 12 episodes even the hardcore fans don't recommend when I'm not even that engaged yet. My ideal hope is that by the time I reach that fork in the road something clicks on the show or in my head and I am engaged to the point I simply can't look away like after the season 1 finale (and as Grail recommends and I agree with in principle), so we'll see!
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Oburi on July 27, 2017, 05:43:17 PM


Well, here's where my head is at the moment: I don't think I can go through 20 more episodes like the last two I watched if something doesn't really grab me besides the occasional "lol they're fucking with me" moment or genuinely scary Lynch nightmare sequence, so my plan after the advice and resources I've been offered here is to go with Nighty's middle way and watch to the middle of season 2, where I understand it kind of gets away from the Lynch/Frost MO anyway, then read summaries of the following episodes as Wally suggested, jump to the finale, the movie, and start season 3. I don't particularly like this half-measure, but it's hard to swallow an extra 12 episodes even the hardcore fans don't recommend when I'm not even that engaged yet. My ideal hope is that by the time I reach that fork in the road something clicks on the show or in my head and I am engaged to the point I simply can't look away like after the season 1 finale (and as Grail recommends and I agree with in principle), so we'll see!


I won't hold it against you. In fact, maybe the reason I don't remember some of the later episodes is because I skipped a few myself. Nightcrawlers advice isn't a bad way to go (for what it's worth i gave you some good karma for the suggestion Nighty  :serpico: ).
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Walter on July 27, 2017, 06:05:05 PM
This is where I'm running into trouble, because if the best is behind me, and what's behind me I didn't find so great, and even the fans think this part's not so great... then where's the great part again!? Is it the sum of the parts? Ugh! I guess it happened and I just don't get it. *puts on dunce cap* :???:

Hey, you made me watch all those crappy Magnum P.I. episodes before I could get to the good ones!  :farnese:

I don't think the best is behind you, though. I don't think I fell in love with the series until the season 2 finale, and it and the movie gave me a new appreciation for everything. There is something special about those early episodes, but they feel quite tame now, almost cute, with everything that's transpired since. 

The way that I'd explain the appeal of the show is that there's never been anything like it on TV, and I think it helped set the stage for the modern-day hour-long prime time TV dramas. It's got an atmosphere, characters, and a sense of humor that only Lynch can provide. He'll take a sharp turn in an otherwise terrifying or sad scene to show something like Andy crying next to the train where Laura was murdered because he's too emotional. Little moments like that, of which there are a half-dozen or so each (good) episode, are constantly playing with your expectations. I think the "whodunit" that launched the series got played out early on, and I stopped caring at a certain point. I don't think that's what the show did well. I just wanted to keep seeing what the characters were up to.

Also, I think your earlier perceptions of the show might have tainted your viewing of it. The legacy of the show really isn't its randomness. I think that's just how some people in the '90s perceived it before the revelations in the finale and the movie.  The series' supernatural elements really aren't weird for weirdness sake. Watching those early episodes now, there's a pattern to almost everything. Just like Dark Souls isn't great because it's "the hardest game of all time!" Twin Peaks isn't great because it's "the strangest most surreal thing you've ever seen!"


Quote
watch to the middle of season 2, where I understand it kind of gets away from the Lynch/Frost MO anyway, then read summaries of the following episodes as Wally suggested, jump to the finale, the movie, and start season 3.

There's very little about Season 2 that you need to see to make sense of the finale and the rest. Really, there are just two characters which don't take much time to explain. I wouldn't feel too guilty about skipping past most of it if you really aren't feeling it. Though you're going to miss some great stuff with Leland and of course Leo's shoes.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Griffith on July 28, 2017, 02:52:04 PM
I won't hold it against you. In fact, maybe the reason I don't remember some of the later episodes is because I skipped a few myself. Nightcrawlers advice isn't a bad way to go (for what it's worth i gave you some good karma for the suggestion Nighty  :serpico: ).

It didn't help him much (0), but with my vote he's back in the black! :ganishka: Does anyone care about these arbitrary karma points though? Everyone knows sexual prowess is tied to your post count anyway. :carcus:

Hey, you made me watch all those crappy Magnum P.I. episodes before I could get to the good ones!  :farnese:

That hurts, poor Huggins. :guts: BTW, just to update you Sneakers is stuck in the queue behind Peaks.

I don't think the best is behind you, though. I don't think I fell in love with the series until the season 2 finale, and it and the movie gave me a new appreciation for everything. There is something special about those early episodes, but they feel quite tame now, almost cute, with everything that's transpired since.

The way that I'd explain the appeal of the show is that there's never been anything like it on TV, and I think it helped set the stage for the modern-day hour-long prime time TV dramas. It's got an atmosphere, characters, and a sense of humor that only Lynch can provide. He'll take a sharp turn in an otherwise terrifying or sad scene to show something like Andy crying next to the train where Laura was murdered because he's too emotional. Little moments like that, of which there are a half-dozen or so each (good) episode, are constantly playing with your expectations. I think the "whodunit" that launched the series got played out early on, and I stopped caring at a certain point. I don't think that's what the show did well. I just wanted to keep seeing what the characters were up to.

Also, I think your earlier perceptions of the show might have tainted your viewing of it. The legacy of the show really isn't its randomness. I think that's just how some people in the '90s perceived it before the revelations in the finale and the movie.  The series' supernatural elements really aren't weird for weirdness sake. Watching those early episodes now, there's a pattern to almost everything. Just like Dark Souls isn't great because it's "the hardest game of all time!" Twin Peaks isn't great because it's "the strangest most surreal thing you've ever seen!"

I think perception and expectation is definitely playing a role here, not that I expected it to be the most mind-bending thing I've ever seen and anything less is a disappointment, but just the fact that I've probably been exposed a lot of what it's inspired so I'm not getting the "best TV show ever?" impact it had at the time. It sure doesn't look like a TV show from the era, more like a film, but now everything does. Same for the non-traditional storytelling elements, though it also plays up the tropes nicely, which is another thing that was probably more novel at the time, and now it almost feels more genuinely like that old TV than a goof on it (like it really is Invitation to Love now; "as Emerald AND Jade" lol). Plus, just judging from the conversations here I got a bad impression of season 2 going in, which I ass-u-me'd meant the magic of the show was locked in the first 8 episodes, but apparently not so. That's good, because I'm fine with the progression from season 1 into the early episodes of season 2, glad it shouldn't be "devalued," though I'm still getting, and admittedly giving, mixed signals.

There's very little about Season 2 that you need to see to make sense of the finale and the rest. Really, there are just two characters which don't take much time to explain. I wouldn't feel too guilty about skipping past most of it if you really aren't feeling it. Though you're going to miss some great stuff with Leland and of course Leo's shoes.

Yeah, I love Ray Wise here, and he's basically the A#1 80's face I was referencing before, plus Sully(!) as one of my favorite whimsically murderous, marshmallow-loving bad brothers! The ledger/marshmallow scene pretty much encompasses everything I love and hate about the show.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Walter on July 31, 2017, 01:29:20 AM
Boy that was a real stinker, huh?
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Gobolatula on July 31, 2017, 02:08:29 AM
Boy that was a real stinker, huh?
It made me very aggravated. I'm currently watching "Best of Steve Brule" compilations to try to wind down.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Walter on July 31, 2017, 01:09:15 PM
It made me very aggravated. I'm currently watching "Best of Steve Brule" compilations to try to wind down.

Sometimes Lynch can make a painfully long scene pay off, like when Gordon took a drag off of Diane's cigarette. But CHRIST, there were a number of scenes in this episode where I felt like we were intentionally being dragged across 10-12 minute scenes with no real revelation, all just to damage us. What did we do wrong? :judo:

I almost thought that Gordon's girl was a "Lil" situation like in Fire Walk With Me. But no, doesn't appear to be the case at all.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Griffith on July 31, 2017, 05:34:52 PM
So should I skip this episode of the new season when I get to it and just go straight to the next!?

Just kidding, but on that note my retro Twin Peaks update: We are up to episode 17 of season 2 and have already watched Firewalk with Me to break things up a bit (we also had a weekend guest Sunday that had seen the series but not the film). I figured out the secret to really enjoying the season 2 grind, which is to drink beer continously throughout (to keep a good even buzz on ala Magnum). Since that worked out rather wonderfully, we're now a stone's throw away from season 3 and whatever changes and secrets it holds. I imagine it won't feel quite the same as watching it years ago and truly "returning" to Twin Peaks after such a time.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Walter on July 31, 2017, 06:00:45 PM
So should I skip this episode of the new season when I get to it and just go straight to the next!?

 :ganishka: ... You probably shouldn't even be in this thread  :azan:

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We are up to episode 17 of season 2 and have already watched Firewalk with Me to break things up a bit (we also had a weekend guest Sunday that had seen the series but not the film). I figured out the secret to really enjoying the season 2 grind, which is to drink beer continously throughout (to keep a good even buzz on ala Magnum).

That's good to hear. Season 2 definitely benefits from a low-stakes entry point. I don't know how anyone could get through the James-Donna-Maddy stuff with a completely sober watching experience. You might have watched Fire Walk With Me a bit too early though, since it relates to the finale.

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Since that worked out rather wonderfully, we're now a stone's throw away from season 3 and whatever changes and secrets it holds. I imagine it won't feel quite the same as watching it years ago and truly "returning" to Twin Peaks after such a time.

Yep. Dale Cooper's been in our heads for decades, so it's going to be a bit different for you, I think.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Grail on July 31, 2017, 07:27:01 PM
This latest episode was a real disappointment, particularly Audrey's reveal. Billy Zane hasn't aged well at all!! :troll:

All joking aside, I'm not sure what Lynch and Frost were hoping for us to get out of this episode. I'm actually starting to miss the girl with the creepy rash.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Griffith on July 31, 2017, 07:40:58 PM
:ganishka: ... You probably shouldn't even be in this thread  :azan:

I have to be careful what I read or don't around here! I actually think I got spoilered on a big season 3 reveal before I even started watching, that paradoxically may have been the major catalyst for my watching, but I won't know for sure until I get there (it's already looking plausible though).

That's good to hear. Season 2 definitely benefits from a low-stakes entry point. I don't know how anyone could get through the James-Donna-Maddy stuff with a completely sober watching experience.

How about the song they "play" together? Good lord, the screen should have just flashed "FUCK YOU!" in bright red letters fast enough to cause an epileptic seizure.

You might have watched Fire Walk With Me a bit too early though, since it relates to the finale.

That danger occurred to me, but I actually had an interested guest and didn't want to unduly subject them to extra James/Donna, so I thought what the hell I probably won't even know what I'm (not) missing. Though, I think I caught a few things, in particular about the status of Agent Cooper and the aforementioned "spoiler," but then I could just be imagining a fanfic theory in my head  that won't be close to anything in season 3.

Yep. Dale Cooper's been in our heads for decades, so it's going to be a bit different for you, I think.

We shall see, looking forward to it. I should also mention we started watching the movie and season 2 episodes this weekend with a big box of Randy's Donuts (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randy%27s_Donuts) and some fine black coffee before moving on to alcohol later in the day.

Billy Zane hasn't aged well at all!! :troll:

Ah, see, now I know Billy Zane is back! SPOILED... or not (and it was difficult to insert this without reading the tagged part, but I did it =). It's hard not to google everyone that is or isn't back.


Even a search for a "Cooper thumbs up" may have yielded a spoiler for this season. :ganishka:
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: NightCrawler on August 01, 2017, 05:15:43 PM
You had one job Griff. After all this talk of season 2 and how to go about it. Watching the movie (what did you think of it?) before the finale was the only mistake you could make. Good luck powering through all the remaining "questionable" episodes with no payoff.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/7PwOZJLNYUkU/200.gif)

Oh, and thanks for keeping my karma outside of the black lodge.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Griffith on August 02, 2017, 06:55:29 AM
You had one job Griff. After all this talk of season 2 and how to go about it. Watching the movie (what did you think of it?) before the finale was the only mistake you could make.

(http://www.skullknight.net/griffith/twinpeaksoldman.jpg) <-me

Remember, I somehow managed to watch episodes 2 and 3 of the series before the feature length premiere that sets it all up! Compared to that Fire Walk With Me before finishing season 2 was nothing, and to be clear it was after I knew Laura Palmer's killer, so nothing too jarring in the movie, that wouldn't have been anyway, except a suspicion I already had more or less confirmed.

Good luck powering through all the remaining "questionable" episodes with no payoff.

Done. And another reason I can't say I regret the movie decision is it would have felt like a detour after the season 2 finale (I think I actually watched it at a pretty perfect time, shortly after the big reveal/resolution). Instead, I got to jump right to 25 years later and into season 3, which is... a tonal shift. Even from the leaner, meaner movie, which is admittedly probably a good transition from the original series to The Return: R Rated Twin Peaks. Anyway, I'm glad I watched it all because even though some of it was pretty rough (https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/05/david-lynch-twin-peaks-season-two) I realized even you experts can't tell me what's truly critical or not because you haven't seen half the new series. For all we know the finale hinges on what happened with Leo and the tarantulas! =)

Oh, and thanks for keeping my karma outside of the black lodge.

(http://www.skullknight.net/girffith/twinpeakscoopunsure.jpg)
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: The Beast of Darkness on August 02, 2017, 03:05:04 PM
I've watched part 12 yesterday. Well...That scene with Gordon and the french woman made me have the same face as Albert during the whole scene... like we are only 6 parts before the ending and they are able to add this kind of boring scene (but some are going to call this "genius" because it's Lynch)... That, and I want to see Jacoby getting skull-crushed by the woodsmen while he's broadcasting (Like Sarah Palmer said: "And men are coming...), I can't stand his scenes anymore.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Walter on August 02, 2017, 04:38:21 PM
I've watched part 12 yesterday. Well...That scene with Gordon and the french woman made me have the same face as Albert during the whole scene... like we are only 6 parts before the ending and they are able to add this kind of boring scene

I actually ended up skipping parts of that episode, which is unheard of. I even watched the full sweeping scene and laughed at the end of it. Long scenes are fine with me, but some of these recent ones were ridiculous. Just long, meaningless pauses between dialogue. The Gordon-Albert one was particularly bad, because it's just a reprisal of most of their conversations, offering nothing new other than a few wasted minutes of everyone's lives. And their conclusion in that talk regarding Diane didn't move the needle anywhere. Basically wait and see, like it's always been.

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(but some are going to call this "genius" because it's Lynch)...

The community seems pretty split on it, honestly. Based on the feedback, I'd say a good half hated it, and the others are confusedly defending it. Then there are the crazies. I came across one guy saying it was his second favorite episode of the season.  :magni: The defense that I've read include things like long scenes lending atmosphere, and helping us understand characters better. Mmmmmhm. :schierke: In truth, I felt like the sweeping scene, this was an authoritative jab at the audience by Lynch, letting them know that it's his story, his characters, and he can tell it how he wants, even if it's not always pleasant. He's making it for him, and if you happen to be along for the ride, so much the better.

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That, and I want to see Jacoby getting skull-crushed by the woodsmen while he's broadcasting (Like Sarah Palmer said: "And men are coming...), I can't stand his scenes anymore.

And yeah, his recent rant felt like it was pushed from hilarious/entertaining to "oh boy, he's still going huh?"

One (exceedingly) bad episode doesn't make much of a dent in my overall great experience of this season. It just made me sad that they're idling away the final few hours of this show.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Eluvei on August 02, 2017, 09:41:21 PM
It had some scenes that felt like pure repetition, and the super long gag with the french woman didn't work for me either, but it also had some of the best scenes so far in my opinion. Sarah and Hawk's scene, where she says "it's a goddamn bad story" was so good (that ceiling fan spinning, and "something in the kitchen..."), I liked Audrey's scene, and I think Charlie might be the best new character. Ben Horne's scene was pretty great too. It had a lot of good stuff, it just kinda felt like a disconnected Missing Pieces sort of thing.

I'm actually starting to miss the girl with the creepy rash.

Not sure if you're aware but that's Sky Ferreira, and she's got a FWWM-inspired song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Y2Q2BkqGfw
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Griffith on August 03, 2017, 02:39:18 PM
7 into season 3 and here are some impressions:

I think I'm enjoying the new world of Twin Peaks, which largely isn't in Twin Peaks at all, more than the callbacks to the some of the old characters (with the exception of Doc Jacoby's little pseudo-political infomercial =) that don't seem to really have a place in this story and setting (but we'll see).

I feel like little has happened really, yet almost every moment of the show is captivating. I find myself probably enjoying and relating a bit too much to the new out of it Cooper. =) Yet no matter how much his return is delayed I'm enjoying watching the journey and process (him reconnecting with coffee was a big deal). Typically, I would hate this kind of arbitrary deferment as it were, so I have to acknowledge that with my praise, and maybe I wouldn't like it so much if I weren't able to binge these at my leisure, but it's been fine and I'm enjoying all the new stuff (Naomi Watts and the rest of the newcomers, save Michael Cera, sorry Cera, have all been enjoyable) and the questions being raised (even if I suspect answers will arrive never).

On that note, I also enjoy Evil Cooper of course, who reminds me of Bruce Campbell, and look forward to getting to the bottom of him and all the bad things he's done or plans to do, and the fact that he's not just Bob but something uniquely Cooperish himself, though an evil doppelganger.

The biggest bummers of the show are probably the compromises that had to be made, the absence of Bob (I heard the actor died), but the biggest is the lack of Harry S. Truman, who after Coop, and with him, is probably the character I was most looking forward to seeing again (he was nothing if not agreeable after all), and as much as I like Robert Forster I can't say I really agree with the thankless way they've handled the situation by de facto recasting but technically not. I'd rather Harry just be dead, Hawk be Chief, and Forster someone else altogether but we'll see how it plays out or pays off.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Walter on August 03, 2017, 03:42:32 PM
7 into season 3 and here are some impressions:

Wow, you really cruised through it! What'd you think of the Season 2 finale...?

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I feel like little has happened really, yet almost every moment of the show is captivating. I find myself probably enjoying and relating a bit too much to the new out of it Cooper. =) Yet no matter how much his return is delayed I'm enjoying watching the journey and process (him reconnecting with coffee was a big deal). Typically, I would hate this kind of arbitrary deferment as it were, so I have to acknowledge that with my praise, and maybe I wouldn't like it so much if I weren't able to binge these at my leisure,

Well, I've been watching since it aired, and I've had no real problems with the deferment of the inevitable return of Cooper. Personally I'm loving Dougie. On top of the overall comedy with his scenes, there's quite a bit of Cooper in his reactions to things, too. And seeing those glimpses of  him THROUGH Dougie is great. Crying at the realization that he has a son, even through his opaque perceptions, was a powerful moment. The scene of him with the statue of the police officer (at the end of episode 5), made me think he was reminded of his friend Harry. And it's indeed sad that odds are very low that we'll get the REAL Harry Truman in this series. As you said, probably the biggest bummer of the entire endeavor. He wasn't a crucial character for the story, but he's part of the heart of Twin Peaks.

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as much as I like Robert Forster I can't say I really agree with the thankless way they've handled the situation by de facto recasting but technically not. I'd rather Harry just be dead, Hawk be Chief, and Forster someone else altogether but we'll see how it plays out or pays off.

It's pretty gross to me how they've replaced him but not replaced him. The book that somewhat bridges the Season 2-3 gap wrote Frank into the story as if he were there all along. Mmhm.  :azan:
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Griffith on August 03, 2017, 04:30:09 PM
Wow, you really cruised through it! What'd you think of the Season 2 finale...?

I was surprised how focused and ultimately short it was, actually. I was expecting kind of an extended cleanup of the mess that is the latter half of season 2 and then an ending to redeem it, but that was cast off judiciously and it pretty much was just the redeeming black lodge horror and weirdness, so that was cool! What an awful cliffhanger on which to go on a 25 year hiatus though (of course for me it was no wait at all, they were just 25 years older in the next episode). :ganishka:

Of course, I was also impressed by the "see you in 25 years" thing. Considering the brief production turmoil that went into this specific revival they just made it. =)

Well, I've been watching since it aired, and I've had no real problems with the deferment of the inevitable return of Cooper. Personally I'm loving Dougie. On top of the overall comedy with his scenes, there's quite a bit of Cooper in his reactions to things, too. And seeing those glimpses of  him THROUGH Dougie is great. Crying at the realization that he has a son, even through his opaque perceptions, was a powerful moment.

You make a great point that it's still essentially Cooper, just forced through limited ability to communicate and understand, which actually make for an interesting alternative examination of the core of his character. So, rather than feeling like we're getting cheated here (like if he was just droolin' in a coma half the time, the classic copout) it's like the ultimate Cooper deep dive! I want to see him fully returned of course, but I'm not impatient for this to end either. I've also appreciated the subtle progress being made, there's been a real gradation from his first moments to where he is at the end of seven. He's sort of becoming a new man, so I wonder if that will stay and he'll become a new sort of Coop or will it be a bit sad if he fully snaps out of it and "Dougie" is simply no more. BTW, what the hell was/is Dougie!? I'm assuming the doppelganger used knowledge from Jeffries (probably no Bowie either :judo:) and Briggs, and perhaps even his body, to create another doppleganger to cheat the system with the ring, whatever the system is, but... "What the hell!?"

The scene of him with the statue of the police officer (at the end of episode 5), made me think he was reminded of his friend Harry. And it's indeed sad that odds are very low that we'll get the REAL Harry Truman in this series. As you said, probably the biggest bummer of the entire endeavor. He wasn't a crucial character for the story, but he's part of the heart of Twin Peaks.

Yeeeeeah... another reason I can wait for Cooper's return; he's not going to reunite with the one person I really care to see him with again and it makes me sad for both. Cooper without Harry is like coffee without the donuts. They couldn't even get him on Skype like the doctor? =) But yeah, I guess I shouldn't complain when some of these returns do make me wonder if perhaps Harry is lucky to remain out of it with dignity intact. Like I was happy to see Duchovny back, that was one I wanted to see, but it's not like they had anything for him to do (yet). Gordon has actually been the most essential returning character to me besides Cooper, and I thought he was pretty disposable originally.

It's pretty gross to me how they've replaced him but not replaced him. The book that somewhat bridges the Season 2-3 gap wrote Frank into the story as if he were there all along. Mmhm.  :azan:

Agreed, that's what makes it stink, I'd be disappointed but understanding if they simply couldn't get the actor back and went from there, but pick a principle and go with it ("we're writing around the actors or we're not"), because this is no-man's land. Hell, if not simply writing him off I'd probably prefer if they just recast to this (I mean, they recast Donna in the movie); at least let the characters have their reunion in spirit, if not the actors. Maybe they'll talk on the phone or something, but currently it's a pretty distracting compromise.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Walter on August 03, 2017, 06:06:56 PM
I was surprised how focused and ultimately short it was, actually. I was expecting kind of an extended cleanup of the mess that is the latter half of season 2 and then an ending to redeem it, but that was cast off judiciously and it pretty much was just the redeeming black lodge horror and weirdness, so that was cool! What an awful cliffhanger on which to go on a 25 year hiatus though (of course for me it was no wait at all, they were just 25 years older in the next episode). :ganishka:

I didn't think of it like a cliffhanger, as much as a dark ending. Also, I think Fire Walk With Me gave fans a different kind of closure to the series, such that most weren't rabid for a return.

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Of course, I was also impressed by the "see you in 25 years" thing. Considering the brief production turmoil that went into this specific revival they just made it. =)

Yep, and you might already know but here are just a few of the hiccups purely on the human capital side of things: Log Lady (Catherine Coulson) died shortly before the premiere, along with Albert (Miguel Ferrer). The Man From Another Place (Michael Anderson) refused to be in it, along with Harry Truman (Michael Ontkean) though his on slightly better terms — he's just done with acting. They only got Doc Hayward back for that weird Skype call because he's co-creator Mark Frost's dad. And it seems that his involvement was only necessary because Ontkean wouldn't come back to give his perspective on Coop after he returned from the Black Lodge.  :puck:

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I wonder if that will stay and he'll become a new sort of Coop or will it be a bit sad if he fully snaps out of it and "Dougie" is simply no more.

Yep, how they handle that is also a fear of mine. I also prematurely feel bad for Naomi Watts' character. But maybe that'll work out in the end, anyway. 

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BTW, what the hell was/is Dougie!? I'm assuming the doppelganger used knowledge from Jeffries (probably no Bowie either :judo:) and Briggs, and perhaps even his body, to create another doppleganger to cheat the system with the ring, whatever the system is, but... "What the hell!?"

He vomits up garmonbozia just as he dies, so he's a creature of the Black Lodge. The real question is who "manufactured" him and why. Evil Coop was supposed to die/return to the Lodge when Coop came back into the world, but instead, Dougie was taken into the Lodge and Evil Coop ended up spared. That benefits him, but it doesn't seem to me that Evil Coop knew about Dougie.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Griffith on August 03, 2017, 08:38:28 PM
I didn't think of it like a cliffhanger, as much as a dark ending.

Sure turned out that way, but I assume it would have continued from there had the show not been cancelled? Now, I don't know how much of that was due to Frost & Lynch tiring of the network process, the declining ratings and response, or some combination, but it's more happenstance than the plan, right? Obviously Lynch was still interested in that world since he made the movie.

Also, I think Fire Walk With Me gave fans a different kind of closure to the series, such that most weren't rabid for a return.

Yeah, even not having finished the second season yet I could tell it was supposed provide a bit of a cathartic, full-circle sort of spiritual closure to cap it off. I didn't like the relative lack of Coop, though it was cool to get a focus on and more complete picture of Laura's side of things.

Yep, and you might already know but here are just a few of the hiccups purely on the human capital side of things: Log Lady (Catherine Coulson) died shortly before the premiere, along with Albert (Miguel Ferrer).


Awww, yeah, she did NOT look well, and I didn't think it was just for the show. I heard about poor Miguel.

The Man From Another Place (Michael Anderson) refused to be in it

He's alive and said NO!? My wife and I macabrely assumed the little man was dead before we even fired up the new season. We were conversely, though pleasantly, surprised by the perseverance of the giant since we guessed he might not be around either. We're just pessimistic jerks I guess.

along with Harry Truman (Michael Ontkean) though his on slightly better terms — he's just done with acting.

I've read disputed stories on this (Ontkean perhaps being keen but it falling through), particularly what I just read about Mr. Anderson's accusations against Lynch, which, while he's clearly bitter, sound plausible; Lynch would rather spend money on names like Naomi Watts, Forster, and Laura Dern than Anderson and Ontkean... but it doesn't seem like he wouldn't have money leftover enough for them, unless that's how they felt or he really didn't care, "Take it or leave it." In any case, I like Lynch's response to Anderson and his solution: "[Lynch] did talk about Anderson’s final line in the original series, “When you see me again, it won’t be me.”

“That it’s more true than you think [laughs],” the director told Rolling Stone."

At least they didn't turn poor Harry into an office fern.

They only got Doc Hayward back for that weird Skype call because he's co-creator Mark Frost's dad.

Literally phoning it in! That's somehow makes it worse; they couldn't take a camera to dad's house to film his side of the phone call? I admit it makes for a moment with Forster. =)

Yep, how they handle that is also a fear of mine. I also prematurely feel bad for Naomi Watts' character. But maybe that'll work out in the end, anyway.

Yeah, stick with Naomi and Sonny Jim, Coop! She's a "tough dame," way better than Heather Graham, the series' original talking tree. Way more plausible his love for them could open the White Lodge than roller girl.

He vomits up garmonbozia just as he dies, so he's a creature of the Black Lodge. The real question is who "manufactured" him and why. Evil Coop was supposed to die/return to the Lodge when Coop came back into the world, but instead, Dougie was taken into the Lodge and Evil Coop ended up spared. That benefits him, but it doesn't seem to me that Evil Coop knew about Dougie.

Someone's been reading the textbook (can you define garmonbozia for the class? =), so I'll just have to copy off your paper. Could Jeffries be behind it all somehow? If that was him on the phone he wanted Evil Coop back in though. Also, despite his appearances in the lodge, isn't Mike physically still out there (I actually don't remember exactly what became of him)? He did have the ring Dougie was wearing in Fire Walk With Me or vice versa, and I believe the voice on the phone mentioned getting Bob back to the lodge, which makes sense depending on wherever whoever wants him in there is... UGH! I don't know, lots of confusing, seemingly contradictory stuff. It's just easier to assume Evil Coop had a plan to keep himself out, it may have been Dougie, and it worked but just not as he thought (like while driving), but then you're a few more steps down the road than me and may know different already, so I'll take your word for it that Evil Coop is out.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: SuperVegetto on August 03, 2017, 10:02:07 PM
The thing with brilliant art is that some of it is better understood, enjoyed and valued after re-experiencing it some months after the first time. I watched the first two seasons and FWWM about 3 years ago and really liked them. Didn't really rewatch scenes or even think about TP that much until season 3 began. Then I started spending so much time thinking about it, reading theories and rewatching episodes and particular scenes (just hours ago I rewatched s03 e03 and I could appreciate it far better than first time around), and now I genuinely believe it to be some of the best art ever made, with elements and details so profound that are mostly missed in first watching and only become clear by putting more thought and view into it. Now I deeply love the series. The final s02 episode when the Arm appears and Sycamore Trees is being sung leaves me in awe, much more so than in first view.

I just wish that in season 3 there wasn't so much time wasted on crap like Jacobi's shit-digging shovels and boring conspiracy rants.

P.s FWWM missing scenes are a must watch.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Griffith on August 05, 2017, 07:01:50 AM
Updated at bottom.

10 in check in:

So, I have conflicted feelings at this point, first about Evil Coop and his survival (I was both sad to see him go before a confrontation with the real Coop and sad to see him revived because now real Coop is still in danger and his oppontant is that much more formidable =), and I'm having a hard time thinking of a better Dougie theory than Evil Coop somehow making him from himself (maybe as little as a palm would do =); considering he's working with the people trying to kill Dougie, it'd be a pretty big coincidence if he didn't plan it this way (but stranger things have happened). Also, say it ain't so, Diane! I hope she's just so dedicated to Coop that she even helps his Evil Dopplganger but will switch back once he returns (unless she already feels scorned).

My favorite bit of recent business from "Dougie's" world has been his checkup (where they didn't check his head!?), the revelation that he's in much better shape, and Naomi Watts subsequently having her way with him and Coop's pure delight. Better than coffee even, huh!?

Also looking forward to them getting another hit on Coop's prints and DNA and comparing them to Evil Coop, I just hope they can reach him in time (when it looked like EC was dead for a moment, that would have been an elegant switcharoo). Though, speaking of Dougie, I'm now past the halfway mark, and while I appreciate that the arc and focus of the show IS Cooper's journey back (much like finding Laura's killer was the fuel for the first run), I'm still going to feel cheated if we don't get some quality Coop time in the last half of this thing after his return. It better not be in the 11th hour.

Hmmm, I feel like there's something else notable worth mentioning... can't quite put my finger on it... OH YEAH, so Bob was born from a nuclear bomb acid trip that begat a George Romero movie, and Laura Palmer is interdimensional Superman/Jesus and they're destined to faceoff again ala Superman IV! At least that was my understanding of the episode, which I can only otherwise describe as... "What the Hell!?" I mean, there's tons more to say, but I'll save that conversation for when I'm fully caught up.


I genuinely believe it to be some of the best art ever made, with elements and details so profound that are mostly missed in first watching and only become clear by putting more thought and view into it.
I just wish that in season 3 there wasn't so much time wasted on crap like Jacobi's shit-digging shovels and boring conspiracy rants.

I'm confused, I thought that WAS the brilliant art! :ganishka:

Seriously, I've only seen a couple of those segments so far, but is it really more egregious than half the shenanigans in season 2? Season 3, while definitely lacking some of the original's charms, is way more focused... well, save for the 3 minute bar sweeping scenes, music videos, and/or 10 minute music visualization origin stories. You know, profoundly brilliant art. =)

P.s FWWM missing scenes are a must watch.

Damn, I remember this coming out a few years ago but forgot about it until it came up here; I've got more work to do! :puck:


UPDATE:

I'm all caught up, on the show and the thread! Ep 12 was indeed trying save for a couple of quality Sarah scenes, but at least I was prepared so it wasn't that bad. I'm more disappointed by the lack of progress (I knew Walter wasn't just feigning ignorance for my benefit; nothing's happened! =) and the fact time is running out, which I'm sure you're all feeling and therefore had much different expectations going in. Like I said, if we don't get a decent amount of Cooper quality time I'll be pissed. I'd like to see him take over and turn everything on its head, but it seems more like we're in this for the long haul (we still have Tom Sizemore to deal with, ugh). Though ep 11 was fun, particularly the culminating dinner scene that was some kind of brilliant right through the credits, and the closest we've come to Cooper genuinely sounding like himself again and not merely through repetition, "Damn fine." So close! SNAP OUT OF IT, COOP!

About episode 12 and Lynch's pace in general, I feel like before this episode Lynch had used the season's pace, particularly the lingering, to great effect setting up the audience and coloring our mood and disposition (even, or especially, if it's bad) to receiving something next. I don't think he's punishing us or showing who's boss, there's usually a purpose and a payoff at work, though this is the first time I can recall him using a whole episode to that effect (unless we count episodes 10-16 of season 2 =). Or, this one just sucked/came together poorly. Anyway, if it's the former then episode 13 should hopefully blow our minds instead of making us want to blow chunks. (http://www.skullknight.net/images/gutsbarf.gif)
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Walter on August 06, 2017, 03:32:56 AM
No time for a proper reply at the moment but:

https://twitter.com/J_Rosenfield/status/893877753774297088
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Griffith on August 06, 2017, 06:19:02 AM
No time for a proper reply at the moment but:

https://twitter.com/J_Rosenfield/status/893877753774297088

 :ganishka:

BTW, I don't know if this has already been shared, but in my Twin Peaks wiki deep dives (including the alternate "International" pilot where they solve the case in the first episode and Bob dies[!!!]) I found this vintage SNL Twin Peaks sketch with a downright all-star cast from their 90's heyday; even the non-speaking extra is a legend if you recognize him:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7o2ca_twin-peaks-parody-by-saturday-night_fun

Clearly the writers were genuine fans and knew the show intimately even though they got the killer wrong (not the point anyway). It also inadvertently foreshadows Coop's future this season! :guts:
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Walter on August 07, 2017, 01:22:49 AM
So, that ending song. That was David Lynch making fun of James, right? .... Right?

Welcome Griff, to the glory of watching Twin Peaks LIVE!  :ganishka:

Anyway, whoo boy... another episode where I'm counting the minutes rather than being engaged in each scene. 15  minutes of arm rasslin, 15 minutes of Tom Sizemore antics. 5 minutes of James' song. Bye bye most of the episode.

Still, some revelations. We know a bit more about the ring's powers. It seems to bind souls to the Lodge. That tracks with what happened with Laura (which also prevented Bob from possessing her). Also, I wonder about Audrey's scenes now, after her thought about not feeling herself. Last we heard from her, she was in a bank explosion... Hmm...
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: VengeanceQuest982 on August 07, 2017, 03:26:04 AM
...After tonight's episode I am fully convinced that all the Audrey Horne scenes are of a still very comatose Audrey living her worse nightmare of being married to a man as controlling as her father. BOB is one slippery dude in evading being caught by The Black Lodge. The looping sound Sarah Palmer's tv made sounds exactly like the record player sound in season 2 preceding BOB's carnage so I figure next week is the 10.1 episode .
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Griffith on August 07, 2017, 04:21:59 AM
So, that ending song. That was David Lynch making fun of James, right? .... Right?

I took it as him personally making fun of me, like mocking us. The second they announced him I was in denial and when they showed him with that same yellow guitar my wife and I looked at each other and said, "Oh fuck me!" It even had the same inexplicable bass and drum parts come in despite there being no other players, yet it had the, creepy, backup singers for Maddy and Donna, recreating all that's wrong with it perfectly! AND THAT VOICE, THAT SAME VOICE! It couldn't only be more absurd coming out of 50-something James and Lynch knows it! :mozgus:

Quote
Welcome Griff, to the glory of watching Twin Peaks LIVE!  :ganishka:

I DID IT! (http://www.skullknight.net/images/gutsbarf.gif)(http://www.skullknight.net/forum/Themes/Recall_20/images/post/thumbup.gif)

I think I picked a bad time to catch up; wish I'd been here for the episode 8 event. Also, I know you haven't followed it, but watch the last half tonight's Game of Thrones for contrast. :ganishka: It's not fair since that show had 60+ episodes, and plenty of stinkers among them, to reach this point, but it also has more episodes remaining to actually pay things off. It'd be a shame if everything is basically being deferred until the, hopefully extended, finale. It'd be season 2-esque if it ultimately goes down that way.

Quote
Anyway, whoo boy... another episode where I'm counting the minutes rather than being engaged in each scene. 15  minutes of arm rasslin, 15 minutes of Tom Sizemore antics. 5 minutes of James' song. Bye bye most of the episode.

Yeah, it was like episode 12.5, though an improvement still.More Coop, evil or otherwise, is always better, but yeah, the arm wrestling went on forover, and though the tension actually got to me to the point my heart was pounding, the result was a bit anticlimactic (you knew he'd win impressively, but I was expecting him to rip the guy's arm right off =). Otherwise, my biggest takeaway is real Coop is actually making no tangible progress and despite the time spent they're dragging this out to the point it's going to go from feeling earned to arbitrary and short shrift when he wakes up... IF he wakes up. Surprise, no Harry OR Coop in the new TP! :magni:

Quote
Still, some revelations. We know a bit more about the ring's powers. It seems to bind souls to the Lodge. That tracks with what happened with Laura (which also prevented Bob from possessing her).

Hey Ray, you probably should have followed orders about putting the ring on Evil Coop, especially whem things got weird. I wonder if EC/Bob is unkillable/unstoppable unless banished to the lodge. It's certainly not looking fair if and when the Coops have a showdown.

Quote
Also, I wonder about Audrey's scenes now, after her thought about not feeling herself. Last we heard from her, she was in a bank explosion... Hmm...
...After tonight's episode I am fully convinced that all the Audrey Horne scenes are of a still very comatose Audrey living her worse nightmare of being married to a man as controlling as her father.

This makes sense with the way the scenes go round and round with her wanting to leave but ultimately staying...
But them making sense isn't a strong argument for what's what on this show. Also, her dad turned into a real mensch by the end of season 2 and she had made her peace with him. Also, who birthed Richard then, Audrey via coma, Donna, or Johnny?


Quote
BOB is one slippery dude in evading being caught by The Black Lodge. The looping sound Sarah Palmer's tv made sounds exactly like the record player sound in season 2 preceding BOB's carnage so I figure next week is the 10.1 episode.

I was so hoping for something to happen then, a crazy vision of Laura ala Gordon, the horse, or some Leland/Bob/black lodge invasion but no such luck. I was hoping this week's episode was to capitalize on the last by blowing our minds, but now I have no such expectation, "fool me once..." So, basically, now Lynch has me right where he wants me. =)
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: SuperVegetto on August 07, 2017, 09:45:25 AM
Well, the next one might blow your minds. Why? Sky serien in Germany showed the next episode by mistake.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Weedle on August 07, 2017, 11:44:17 AM
Well, the next one might blow your minds. Why? Sky serien in Germany showed the next episode by mistake.
How is that possible?

Also, could you tell us more about it? :carcus:
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Griffith on August 07, 2017, 01:38:56 PM
Well, the next one might blow your minds. Why? Sky serien in Germany showed the next episode by mistake.

At least "Twin Peaks Leaks" makes for a good headline, and some of that sweet leak publicity to hopefully pull it out of this second half slump. I wish they'd just add it on my Amazon/Showtime account now.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Walter on August 07, 2017, 04:27:56 PM
As pointed out to me on Reddit:


Mitchum brothers: What kind of gift should we buy for your son, Sonny Jim?
Cooper: Gym.


Okay, that's pretty good...
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Weedle on August 07, 2017, 11:23:47 PM
Griffith, I don't understand why you're taking Twin Peaks this seriously. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm really enjoying this season, but I don't understand the urge to find depth or consistency about Twin Peaks (this isn't Berserk) because... There really isn't. I mean, literally everything about this third season is arbitrary (because it could have been anything "25 years later", there's no necessity). Whereas, you've been quite harsh with "Better Call Saul" which is a more consistent TV series (and at least takes itself seriously). I mean, even the origin of "Bob" is an happy accident: a man working on the set appears in a mirror (which is hilarious). The adventures of Dougies Jones are entertaining but, when you think about it, it could have been a spin-off or a series that has nothing to do with Twin Peaks. Anyway, there's also a lot of cynicism involved (like Lynch himself appearing in too many episodes... He's having a blast as an actor).There's also the fact that the third season has been financed by the French tax-payers.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Walter on August 08, 2017, 02:22:30 AM
Griffith, I don't understand why you're taking Twin Peaks this seriously. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm really enjoying this season, but I don't understand the urge to find depth or consistency about Twin Peaks (this isn't Berserk) because... There really isn't.

There is plenty of consistency between the various iterations of the series. That's almost its charm. From solid artifacts like the electricity pole to the flashing lights and set designs, to more ephemeral things  like atmosphere and  mood, I'm not sure what you find inconsistent about Twin Peaks as a series.

As for depth, if you're watching Twin Peaks for the thumbs ups, and references to coffee and cherry pie, then more power to you, but many others find depth in the world and characters.

Quote
I mean, literally everything about this third season is arbitrary (because it could have been anything "25 years later", there's no necessity).

It was always going to be about what happened with Cooper after he was trapped in the Lodge.

Quote
I mean, even the origin of "Bob" is an happy accident: a man working on the set appears in a mirror (which is hilarious).

That's his origin on the set, not in the world of Twin Peaks. So I'm not sure what point you're making. Bob's a seriously creepy, dangerous character in the show.

Quote
The adventures of Dougies Jones are entertaining but, when you think about it, it could have been a spin-off or a series that has nothing to do with Twin Peaks.

Again, what's your point...? No one's surprised Twin Peaks has comedic elements. And Dougie only works because we know who he really is. Take that away, put in someone else, that's a different scenario, and a different show.

Quote
Anyway, there's also a lot of cynicism involved (like Lynch himself appearing in too many episodes... He's having a blast as an actor).

Who here has complained about Gordon's appearances?

Quote
There's also the fact that the third season has been financed by the French tax-payers.

..What about it? This post is baffling.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Griffith on August 08, 2017, 02:43:14 AM
Griffith, I don't understand why you're taking Twin Peaks this seriously.

Hmmmm, I didn't think I was taking it too seriously, beyond judging and respecting it as entertainment and a good faith effort at something, for which I give the first half of the season high marks. Also, to be fair, it set a pretty serious tone to start and despite all the weird and silly stuff since what's bugging me is it just hasn't been compelling the last couple episodes. I'm fine with anything as long as it's engaging rather than boring. Though I do expect them to have Agent Cooper eventually show up on the Agent Cooper show, even more so if it really doesn't matter and there's nothing bigger in mind (if not, I'll gladly accept a better alternative, but Dougie won't cut it for 18 hours). I gave up on the Saul show for the same reason, because there was no "Saul show" and what they offered instead stretched the limits of nuance, minimalism, and entertainment. After 2 seasons of circling around a vague point, going on 3, it just wasn't enteraining anymore; there's no drama at that point.

Contrast that with my praise of Game of Thrones, a show I'm certainly not taking seriously at this point, but which is entertaining as hell! So yeah, if the whole thing is just a pointless goof, at least goof off with the character everyone wants to see, but I hope there's some higher entertainment in mind as well. Why wouldn't I?

Also,  I agree with everything Wally added about the series, old and new.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: SuperVegetto on August 08, 2017, 07:39:02 AM
Griffith, I don't understand why you're taking Twin Peaks this seriously. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm really enjoying this season, but I don't understand the urge to find depth or consistency about Twin Peaks (this isn't Berserk) because... There really isn't. I mean, literally everything about this third season is arbitrary (because it could have been anything "25 years later", there's no necessity). Whereas, you've been quite harsh with "Better Call Saul" which is a more consistent TV series (and at least takes itself seriously). I mean, even the origin of "Bob" is an happy accident: a man working on the set appears in a mirror (which is hilarious). The adventures of Dougies Jones are entertaining but, when you think about it, it could have been a spin-off or a series that has nothing to do with Twin Peaks. Anyway, there's also a lot of cynicism involved (like Lynch himself appearing in too many episodes... He's having a blast as an actor).There's also the fact that the third season has been financed by the French tax-payers.

Lmao what? You need to join a Twin Peaks group in facebook or reddit and see the crazy amounts of theories and connections (I'm talking about those that are likely true) if you think there's no depth or consistency. I bet you didn't even notice the creamed corn in Sarah's scene and thought it was pointless, or the fact it was hitting at timeline repetitions in the latest episode. Even the whole Bob, Woodsman etc... stories were hinted 26 years ago, and they have deep figurative meaning
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: VengeanceQuest982 on August 08, 2017, 07:45:23 AM
...Here is another thing to mull post finale : nothing is in chronological order scene wise on The RETURN.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Walter on August 08, 2017, 11:43:09 AM
...Here is another thing to mull post finale : nothing is in chronological order scene wise on The RETURN.

Could you unpack that a bit..? Clearly there are many scenes that are in chronological order, or the story would make no sense.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Griffith on August 08, 2017, 03:30:58 PM
...Here is another thing to mull post finale : nothing is in chronological order scene wise on The RETURN.

(https://img-s2.onedio.com/id-55f82dfc301434e056e998b5/rev-0/w-500/s-56682d82f18375e3a4893a094e4c2fa1b1adbbab.gif)

Could you unpack that a bit..? Clearly there are many scenes that are in chronological order, or the story would make no sense.

Yeah, off the top of my head everything in fact appears to be in chronological order. The weirdest anomaly coming to mind is Evil Coop, or someone resembling him, appearing in the box when he should have been out in the world already, and them never mentioning seeing the real deal on film later.

So, VQ, are we talking certain disparate scenes in different locales are actually happening simultaneously or out of order of appearance? That's certainly possible, but there also appears to be plenty of cause and effect between these scenes/locations, and not much of a case to be made as to how or why they'd be appearing out of order unless you've got a big picture theory at hand?



Anyway, here's essentially the same report but two different takeaways:

'Twin Peaks' Likely Won't Be Revived Again at Showtime (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/twin-peaks-wont-be-revived-again-at-showtime-1027586)

‘Twin Peaks’: No Talks For Another Season But “Door’s Always Open To David Lynch,” Showtime Bosses Say (http://deadline.com/2017/08/twin-peaks-no-second-season-showtime-david-lynch-david-nevins-tca-1202144491/)

The gist either way is that it wasn't a big hit in traditional viewers but that it got Showtime plenty of new subscribers, including me! Overall, it seems to me like they're looking at the glass half full but it wasn't a smash or anything. I'd say "not that it matters," but it actually does if Lynch ever wanted to do more on the same scale (I'd think the best compromise in that case would be less episodes, but here's hoping everything will be perfectly satisfying after the next 5 =).
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: VengeanceQuest982 on August 08, 2017, 04:34:11 PM
This is in response to Walter and Griffith's query about the show unfolding through nonlinear storytelling ex: in part 13 Bobby tells Ed and Norma that he just found something related to his father which would have been in Part 11. During the day.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Eluvei on August 08, 2017, 04:46:58 PM
This is in response to Walter and Griffith's query about the show unfolding through nonlinear storytelling ex: in part 13 Bobby tells Ed and Norma that he just found something related to his father which would have been in Part 11. During the day.

Looked like a simple continuity problem to me. Just like the sudden mid-episode wardrobe changes that people keep obsessing about. He thought a certain scene shot for a certain episode would fit better in another episode, and so on.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Griffith on August 08, 2017, 05:55:18 PM
This is in response to Walter and Griffith's query about the show unfolding through nonlinear storytelling ex: in part 13 Bobby tells Ed and Norma that he just found something related to his father which would have been in Part 11. During the day.

I did notice that! But I assumed it was just supposed to be earlier that day, and if we'd already seen day and night pass with Bobby in other scenes (felt like it), it was...

Looked like a simple continuity problem to me.

This, rather than evidence of some humongous in-story temporal shifts. I mean, given the other subject matter and the implied significance of the location of Twin Peaks it's certainly possible something strange could be happening, but are there other examples to support this besides one weirdly placed scene in the latest episode? Counterpoint: David Lynch is a 71 year old man putting together an 18 hour movie with an editing department 17 names deep. Mistakes could certainly happen, or like Eluvei said, he might have just consciously made the choice to move scenes around for other creative reasons.

Just like the sudden mid-episode wardrobe changes that people keep obsessing about.

/THE/CLOTHES/ARE/NOT/WHAT/THEY/SEEM/ :magni:
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: The Beast of Darkness on August 10, 2017, 07:35:08 PM
Part 13 felt a bit like part 12, but there was some more interesting scenes this time. The arm wrestling scene was awesome (Mr.C. literally crushed Jason Voorhees' face). kyle MacLachlan really do a great job, he looks pure evil. And Audrey Horne is out of her mind, there is something really strange about her.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Walter on August 14, 2017, 01:05:38 AM
Non sequitur impressions of Ep 14:

Took this long to get to Jack Rabbit's Palace, eh? Oh well, it was an action packed episode after the slow and plodding nature of the past couple. A visit to the White Lodge. The giant = the fireman confirmed. Andy's empty head was like a vessel for whatever he's been programmed to do. Truman can't mention the key to Gordon? Fire Walk With Me connection re-established for sleepy viewers. The girl who appeared in the forest, Naido (according to credits), is the same who helped Cooper escape, but fell off that building. Her mother was the terrifying thing banging on the door. I wonder if the creature that appeared in the Box is her doppelganger?

Finally, was Sarah Palmer always a being from the Lodge, or was she somehow turned over the years into ... whatever that was in the bar. She opened her face like Laura opened hers.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Griffith on August 14, 2017, 05:13:08 AM
Non sequitur impressions of Ep 14:

Took this long to get to Jack Rabbit's Palace, eh? Oh well, it was an action packed episode after the slow and plodding nature of the past couple. A visit to the White Lodge. The giant = the fireman confirmed. Andy's empty head was like a vessel for whatever he's been programmed to do.

Good ep, and minus MacLachlan, it's strange that they couldn't spread some of this material out in the past two dumping grounds. I think Andy is more than just an empty vessel and the perfect choice for communication with the white lodge; he's purely good and sees things differently, like with the map in S2. Makes sense in a weird way that he'd basically get it all laid out for him while nobody else could remember/comprehend; he'll get it in a purely good vs evil sense. A great moment in law enforcement history!

Quote
The girl who appeared in the forest, Naido (according to credits), is the same who helped Cooper escape, but fell off that building. Her mother was the terrifying thing banging on the door. I wonder if the creature that appeared in the Box is her doppelganger?

Didn't think we'd see her again, let alone in the world; it's all coming back to Twin Peaks. Unfortunately it looks like it's going to take about 17 episodes to even get the principals together back there.

Quote
Finally, was Sarah Palmer always a being from the Lodge, or was she somehow turned over the years into ... whatever that was in the bar. She opened her face like Laura opened hers.

My only thought was she seems even scarier than Evil Coop and has the potential to be the big bad of the whole thing. Then again, it could just be "a real mystery" or piece of the puzzle that ultimately goes nowhere. In any case, as she warned I wouldn't fuck with her though.

I was glad to see Gordon and the gang figuring things out and getting closer to the real Coop, somewhat mitigated by him not appearing at all. Also, Evil Coop behind Dougie confirmed? If Janey-E is Diane's sister, that's one too many connections/coincidences. Still not sure where her loyalties ultimately lie, she seems to be playing both sides, but she's definitely working with with Evil Cooper despite their differences that she won't discuss, if only because that's the only Cooper she's got right now (unless she truly hates the real Cooper for some reason).

What's up with Hulk hand, he going to destroy Evil Coop by beating him at arm wrestling? =)
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: VengeanceQuest982 on August 14, 2017, 08:41:26 AM
Griffith

...I'm beginning to think that Sarah is the mask for "The Experiment" the mother figure that bore BOB into the physical plane. And that Naido is the current form of the being that The Fireman created.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Griffith on August 14, 2017, 02:02:15 PM
Griffith

...I'm beginning to think that Sarah is the mask for "The Experiment" the mother figure that bore BOB into the physical plane. And that Naido is the current form of the being that The Fireman created.

Yeah, the water cooler talk today was whether she was the girl that ate the Bob bug.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Walter on August 14, 2017, 02:07:07 PM
Griffith

...I'm beginning to think that Sarah is the mask for "The Experiment" the mother figure that bore BOB into the physical plane. And that Naido is the current form of the being that The Fireman created.
Yeah, the water cooler talk today was whether she was the girl that ate the Bob bug.

In any case, there seems to be way too much still unexplained for it to all be resolved naturally in a four-episode span. And while I wouldn't normally expect Lynch to explain things, he seems to have made it his business to open so many new threads in this series, I do expect some of them to be resolved.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Griffith on August 14, 2017, 02:24:24 PM
In any case, there seems to be way too much still unexplained for it to all be resolved naturally in a four-episode span. And while I wouldn't normally expect Lynch to explain things, he seems to have made it his business to open so many new threads in this series, I do expect some of them to be resolved.

Yeah, the series appears to be doing no winding down. It actually spent all of last night introducing or explaining new elements and felt like it's just getting started, so there's no way it's all coming together in the next four. Lynch is either planning on more someday or planning on leaving it that way, and us with more questions than when we started. :ganishka:
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: SuperVegetto on August 21, 2017, 12:09:22 PM
Has to be my favorite episode of the season. So emotional and didn't have the sorta cheap visual look of the previous episode, great atmosphere and the DougieCoop scene made me scream and pause it.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Griffith on August 21, 2017, 04:59:06 PM
Yeah, I can't say this was a favorite, seems more meandering than ever honestly (by virtue of being the latest interminable progression), though it did have some cool parts even if the whole didn't do much for me:

The opening vignette was kind of nice and strangely out of place in its own way because of it (frankly, if they hadn't gotten together after all these years, would Norma even want to?). The Mr. C portion going to see Jeffries at the Service Station from Hell was definitely the highlight, though I was sad to learn that was not actually the pre-recorded voice of the late Mr. Bowie. The other big moment is of course Dougie, who has become underutilized in the last few episodes. I could literally watch Kyle McLaughlin eat cake and be fascinated, but it's not that they've been keeping Cooper in this state that's bothersome, but that he hasn't been around much at all recently. Hopefully that's going to change now that "Gordon" has finally reached him and he's going to hopefully pull whatever part of him was missing through that socket. =) And finally, of course, RIP Log Lady, a fitting tribute, though I'm starting to expect a bit more with so few episodes left, and though they're quickly pruning the unessential cast, a lot of the new additions didn't amount to much anyway.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Walter on August 21, 2017, 07:10:15 PM
https://twitter.com/superdeluxe/status/899720281714905088  :ganishka:

Regarding last night's ep:

I kept waiting for the significance of Steven's character to be revealed, and now he's dead, so I'm really wondering why we were subjected to his gross face at all.

As Dougie stared at the socket, I stood up. He's going to do it! He's going to return to the Lodge and retrieve that golden ball to make him "whole" again. Nnnnope! Oh, Dougie! Still, that zap might have had some effect, given the significance of electricity in this show .

Good for Ed. Clear skies for him and Norma. Not sure why that took 25 years...

Jeffries as a disembodied gas emitting from a supernatural cauldron caught somewhere between dimensions? Sure, why not? But as cool as that whole sequence was, and as long-awaited as Jeffries' reveal was, it didn't really seem to add much to the mix. That line from Jeffries: "So you're Cooper?" And then Mr. C's stare, ignoring the question. Positively Void-like  :void:

As soon as I saw the woman who opened the door for Mr. C, I thought it might be Judy. Not that it makes any sense  :guts:

Any clue who the assassin was in Las Vegas? That seemed to have come from out of nowhere. If it's not Jeffries, then it's probably the same person who's been working against Mr. C since the start.



And finally, of course, RIP Log Lady, a fitting tribute, though I'm starting to expect a bit more with so few episodes left, and though they're quickly pruning the unessential cast, a lot of the new additions didn't amount to much anyway.

I could be reading too much into it, but her death happening now instead of later in the show I think signals that we're in for some shit in the coming episodes. And to reiterate my feeling from last ep, there's a LOT to cover in the last 3 eps...

Finally, regarding the Log Lady's final words: Watch out for the one under the moon. Here are some relevant screengrabs, via reddit:

http://imgur.com/a/6XJCG
http://imgur.com/a/nQDZP
http://imgur.com/a/ii0RB
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Griffith on August 21, 2017, 11:28:01 PM
https://twitter.com/superdeluxe/status/899720281714905088  :ganishka:

 :ganishka:

Regarding last night's ep:

I kept waiting for the significance of Steven's character to be revealed, and now he's dead, so I'm really wondering why we were subjected to his gross face at all.

To annoy us, and he's effective to the point I don't even believe he's really gone, even though it seems the best way to correct the mistake of including him. Such punch-able.


As Dougie stared at the socket, I stood up. He's going to do it! He's going to return to the Lodge and retrieve that golden ball to make him "whole" again. Nnnnope! Oh, Dougie! Still, that zap might have had some effect, given the significance of electricity in this show.

Good thought, we may see that yet, maybe intercut with Coop's body living or dying in the regular world. Maybe he'll come out of a coma after all. =)

Jeffries as a disembodied gas emitting from a supernatural cauldron caught somewhere between dimensions? Sure, why not? But as cool as that whole sequence was, and as long-awaited as Jeffries' reveal was, it didn't really seem to add much to the mix. That line from Jeffries: "So you're Cooper?" And then Mr. C's stare, ignoring the question. Positively Void-like  :void:

It was all pretty awesome, enough to make me consider that Mr. C IS the real Cooper, :ganishka: and by that token, maybe there can't be any real Cooper without Mr. C being reincorporated into him/The Lodge. Maybe that's what he really needs to be "whole" again, his edge.

Any clue who the assassin was in Las Vegas? That seemed to have come from out of nowhere. If it's not Jeffries, then it's probably the same person who's been working against Mr. C since the start.

Unless you mean someone I'm forgetting, those were Mr. C's assassins killing his other lackeys for failing to kill Dougie. More extremely necessary characters! The way useless character are offing others is like some kind of character money laundering. Maybe the little man was right when he suggested Lynch didn't need to get a bunch of face supporting actors to play characters whose contributions amount to closed loops.

I could be reading too much into it, but her death happening now instead of later in the show I think signals that we're in for some shit in the coming episodes. And to reiterate my feeling from last ep, there's a LOT to cover in the last 3 eps...

I'd agree with you, as in that's genuinely my impulse as well, except it's the same one I and many have had the other meandering episodes and there's seemingly little cause and effect; after all, there's no rule stating that for every inaction there's an equal and opposite action. Maybe stuff will happen, maybe it's still just going to be setup for the finale, and maybe the finale isn't going to deliver anything approaching expectations either (YMMV).  Meanwhile, we're hoping that the less that happens the more there is to come, until we're finally just watching a guy sweep the floor with bated breath, waiting for the imminent HUGE reveal that's going to tell us what it all means! Or not, and it's a David Lynch psyche out; Laura Palmer, Cooper, Bob, Owls, Lodges, and everything new we're seeing "come together" now, what it all amounts to is anticipation, and there's no way to reveal anticipation. It's why we we're not seeing Coop again until these final episodes, if at all. BTW, I'm not necessarily being negative here or saying it's bad or won't work, I'm sure there's going to be payoffs, lore and otherwise, and less can be more. I'm just wondering exactly how much less to expect.

Finally, regarding the Log Lady's final words: Watch out for the one under the moon. Here are some relevant screengrabs, via reddit:

http://imgur.com/a/6XJCG
http://imgur.com/a/nQDZP
http://imgur.com/a/ii0RB


https://thegameofnerds.files.wordpress.com/2017/07/311-hawk-symbol.jpeg?w=730
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Nothingwillbewong on August 22, 2017, 12:57:55 AM
What seems very likely to me is that the one mr c is looking for, that is represented by a ball with two crooked horns is the being that birthed him in part 8, just cause it seems she has said horns, why or what does she mean to a being of what I thought of being pure evil I have no clue, does even evil itself long for their parents?
  I might be missing loads of stuff here or speculating incorrectly, I hope you guys can enlighten me a bit here
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Eluvei on August 22, 2017, 03:36:42 AM
More extremely necessary characters! The way useless character are offing others is like some kind of character money laundering.

Man, this must be feeling like a huge waste of time if you're expecting every little character from vignettes to be somehow significant to the... main plot? Well, the FBI storyline. Are you gonna be disappointed if the guy who was selling his blood doesn't show up to help in the final battle against The Experiment? :iva:
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Griffith on August 22, 2017, 05:36:57 AM
Man, this must be feeling like a huge waste of time if you're expecting every little character from vignettes to be somehow significant to the... main plot? Well, the FBI storyline. Are you gonna be disappointed if the guy who was selling his blood doesn't show up to help in the final battle against The Experiment? :iva:

Well, I am expecting the "main plot" or the "FBI storyline" themselves to be more significant to the show than those characters and vignettes that seemingly go nowhere in and of themselves, yes, or more precisely for those seemingly insignificant things to ultimately matter to the overall purpose of the show (even if it's not yet clear to me; I'm sure Patrick Fischler's character will tie it all together in the end), but perhaps I'm wrong to think that way. On the other hand, if they just waste an inordinate amount of screen time we don't spend developing and exploring the "main FBI plotline" and it ends up being more smoke than fire (walk), may exultation levels may indeed fall below 100%. Maybe they'll even have time leftover at the end for the little character of Agent Cooper to make a cameo in the form of a sentient cup of coffee voiced by Craig MacLachlan, "Damn fine." :iva:

Anyway, despite my criticisms of recent episodes I've still quite enjoyed the season, particularly the first 11 episodes, but after that it has seemingly stalled and been hit or miss, lacking the focus and purpose of the first half of the season and losing its inertia. I hope that's somehow by design or all part of the plan, or maybe there is no plan and that can be fine too, but it's not unfair to wonder.


(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/9e/bf/d1/9ebfd14585b7bde7fcf3241f14d2e5f3.gif)



Update: Using the Twin Peaks Survival Guide (http://imgur.com/pkqdoEW) Grail posted as a template, I decided to rate the episodes of The Return:

(http://www.skullknight.net/griffith/tprsorecard.jpg)

Feel free to disagree, I'm largely going off memory and double checking some episode summaries to job it, there's plenty of episodes that could be downgraded (possibly 4-6) or upgraded (particularly 13 and 15), which would indicate a more balanced season... but nah, I think I'm pretty much right. =)
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Eluvei on August 22, 2017, 06:53:48 AM
I hope that's somehow by design or all part of the plan, or maybe there is no plan and that can be fine too, but it's not unfair to wonder.

Sorry, didn't mean to imply you're watching it wrong or anything, it's just that a lot of the best parts for me are seemingly disconnected to the overall plot so far, like the traffic jam feat. zombie kid and Candie's scenes. And it makes no difference to me if they're further explored in later episodes or not. Then again I loved Steven and his gross face's vacuous story and how nightmarish and anxiety inducing his last scene was so maybe I'm just an easy target for Lynch's usual themes.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Griffith on August 22, 2017, 07:24:20 AM
Sorry, didn't mean to imply you're watching it wrong or anything, it's just that a lot of the best parts for me are seemingly disconnected to the overall plot so far, like the traffic jam feat. zombie kid and Candie's scenes. And it makes no difference to me if they're further explored in later episodes or not.

Well, maybe I am doing it wrong since until you mentioned her I forgot about Candie (who I also like)! But I'm with you on her and zombie kid and those other surreal little slices of life there for their own sake. It's not that I need them explored further or to mean something either, but I guess in the early going I felt those moments fit in like window dressing that complimented and enhanced the larger framework, or at least what I perceived to be a larger framework, which seems to have come apart recently so it's almost like a Missing Pieces-style compilation of scenes. Instead of getting the best of both worlds between hard plot and other story elements I'm not being satisfied by either now, like they're working against each other instead of in concert. IDK, it won't take much to get me to sing a different tune and reconsider these episodes depending on if there's a method to this particular madness and/or where we're headed with it. I guess I just fear it's actually nowhere, "Good to see you again, hope you enjoyed zombie kid, didn't Bobby turn out alright, Ed & Norma awww, now back to the lodge for another 25 years going on forever."

Then again I loved Steven and his gross face's vacuous story and how nightmarish and anxiety inducing his last scene was so maybe I'm just an easy target for Lynch's usual themes.

Well, now I know you're really a sick puppy. =) Yeah, I'm not a fan, though I did enjoy that last scene on the condition its his last (though I assumed he was ultimately going to cause more trouble for Bobby et all). What do you think of the nevergoing saga of Charlie and Audrey? My problem isn't with Charlie, like you I sort of think he fits, but what the hell has become of/are they doing with Audrey?
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: SuperVegetto on August 22, 2017, 12:02:45 PM

Update: Using the Twin Peaks Survival Guide (http://imgur.com/pkqdoEW) Grail posted as a template, I decided to rate the episodes of The Return:

(http://www.skullknight.net/griffith/tprsorecard.jpg)

Feel free to disagree, I'm largely going off memory and double checking some episode summaries to job it, there's plenty of episodes that could be downgraded (possibly 4-6) or upgraded (particularly 13 and 15), which would indicate a more balanced season... but nah, I think I'm pretty much right. =)

Swap the rating of episode 14 with that of 15 and you'll have it right
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Griffith on August 22, 2017, 02:06:48 PM
Swap the rating of episode 14 with that of 15 and you'll have it right

I'd take it, but I wouldn't want to upset Sarah Palmer... :magni:

Like I said in my initial thoughts on the episode, I'm probably being hard on 15, considering everything it has to offer, because of mounting uneasiness about the overall narrative. That might be unfair on an individual episode basis, but it might not; a good episode in the "first act" isn't necessarily a good episode in the second or third act and vice versa, but then maybe I'm just being reductive.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Walter on August 22, 2017, 03:07:05 PM
I think that list is pretty solid, Griff, though I'll admit to forgetting what happened in Eps 9-10.

I wouldn't say I'm angry at the show, just a little disappointed that I don't have strong feelings one way or the other anymore. I feel like the show has squandered much of the goodwill it garnered in the early episodes, when I was more forgiving of its meandering way of telling its story. Recently I've found myself looking at the time while watching, thinking "wow, 20 more minutes of this, huh? Minus 5-6 minutes of the Roadhouse music video." That certainly wasn't happening in the first 6 episodes or so, and it's definitely changed how I've felt about the whole thing. I don't know if that's on the show for being inconsistent or me for being foolish in hoping for more.  A lot hangs on these final episodes to turn that sentiment around.

And I'm even okay with virtually no "answers," since that's never what compelled me about Twin peaks to begin with. And so much of the lore is explained in the margins, not on the screen (though I maintain that if Lynch and Frost were going to re-open Twin Peaks as a story, I'd expect a few more answers) I just want to enjoy the show again.

Then again I loved Steven and his gross face's vacuous story and how nightmarish and anxiety inducing his last scene was so maybe I'm just an easy target for Lynch's usual themes.

I guess I just don't know what his story was supposed to do for the audience. And also, I was premature in implying that Steven is DEFINITELY dead and written out of the story. We saw Carl being informed about the incident, and there's a chance he'll encounter something in the woods in the next episode (or the next).
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Griffith on August 22, 2017, 05:56:43 PM
I think that list is pretty solid, Griff, though I'll admit to forgetting what happened in Eps 9-10.

Thanks, and frankly those two episodes could possibly be downgraded to sketchy for all that happens in them, but were riding the high of episode 8; maybe 9 is still ok/gets a pass for sort of resetting the plot from there, but 10 is an awful lot of Richard Horne and the Mitchum brothers and would be a lot more galling now than it was 5(!) episodes ago.

I wouldn't say I'm angry at the show, just a little disappointed that I don't have strong feelings one way or the other anymore. I feel like the show has squandered much of the goodwill it garnered in the early episodes, when I was more forgiving of its meandering way of telling its story. Recently I've found myself looking at the time while watching, thinking "wow, 20 more minutes of this, huh? Minus 5-6 minutes of the Roadhouse music video." That certainly wasn't happening in the first 6 episodes or so, and it's definitely changed how I've felt about the whole thing. I don't know if that's on the show for being inconsistent or me for being foolish in hoping for more.  A lot hangs on these final episodes to turn that sentiment around.

And I'm even okay with virtually no "answers," since that's never what compelled me about Twin peaks to begin with. And so much of the lore is explained in the margins, not on the screen (though I maintain that if Lynch and Frost were going to re-open Twin Peaks as a story, I'd expect a few more answers) I just want to enjoy the show again.

Yeah, I don't actually need or expect some all-important, mind-blowing revelation(s), episode 8 or 22 from season 2 are the exceptions, not the rule, and I was fine with the pace and everything in the first half of the season, whether it was central to the "main plot" or not; it was all compelling to me but that fascination just hasn't carried over into the double digits though. It's as simple as I enjoyed the first half and the second half not so much, and I don't know if that's me getting too lazily plot-focused and taking it for granted or them running out of A material (you said it in the beginning, maybe 18 episodes is too much). Anyway, it doesn't have to be some epic, prestige TV bullshit to be damn fine, but I also don't want it to end up feeling like Whose Line Is It Anyway?, "the show where everything's made up and the points don't matter!"

We saw Carl being informed about the incident, and there's a chance he'll encounter something in the woods in the next episode (or the next).

I'm glad we both can't help ourselves, "something good is going to happen, something bigger is going to come of this... sometime!" Except we're running out of time, because while there's technically 3 parts left, according to the scheduling 17 & 18 are both on September 3rd and most assuredly comprise the feature length finale, so it better be next week or the next, because that's IT!
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Eluvei on August 22, 2017, 06:21:01 PM
Well, now I know you're really a sick puppy. =) Yeah, I'm not a fan, though I did enjoy that last scene on the condition its his last (though I assumed he was ultimately going to cause more trouble for Bobby et all). What do you think of the nevergoing saga of Charlie and Audrey? My problem isn't with Charlie, like you I sort of think he fits, but what the hell has become of/are they doing with Audrey?

The three scenes we had so far were perfect as far as I'm concerned. If it stops there, I'm fine with it, completely satisfied with leaving the mystery of her situation unsolved. There was an explosion in the building she was in, and next thing we know she's in that situation; I love it. It's a little obvious that it's been written to appear like a weird fever dream, like Audrey is trapped somehow and Charlie has some sort of control over the situation, what with his inaction and the odd things he says in episode 13. This sort of thing fits into the image I have of this series, and I'd be a little disappointed if she's suddenly woken up or if we get a shot of her in a hospital bed or something. Not unlike the dude selling his blood, or the Roadhouse ending sequences, I like them as stand-alone vignettes (and I call them vignettes in a non-pejorative sense). Basically, my favorite parts are a mix of Dumbland/Out Yonder and Mulholland Drive, and I think Audrey's scenes are pretty much that.

For the record, I dislike most of the FBI sequences. I don't like the presence of the female agent, and I'm not a fan of Diane either. I roll my eyes whenever they make some kind of discovery, or straight up say shit like what Blue Rose means, which was my least favorite part of this thing so far along with Duchovny's scene.

I'm glad we both can't help ourselves, "something good is going to happen, something bigger is going to come of this... sometime!" Except we're running out of time, because while there's technically 3 parts left, according to the scheduling 17 & 18 are both on September 3rd and most assuredly comprise the feature length finale, so it better be next week or the next, because that's IT!

That's basically the opposite of how I'm feeling. I hope Cole falls into a hole and dies, and we get more Whose Line Is It Anyway sketches before it's too late. :ganishka:
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Griffith on August 22, 2017, 06:49:48 PM
The three scenes we had so far were perfect as far as I'm concerned. If it stops there, I'm fine with it, completely satisfied with leaving the mystery of her situation unsolved. There was an explosion in the building she was in, and next thing we know she's in that situation; I love it. It's a little obvious that it's been written to appear like a weird fever dream, like Audrey is trapped somehow and Charlie has some sort of control over the situation, what with his inaction and the odd things he says in episode 13. This sort of thing fits into the image I have of this series, and I'd be a little disappointed if she's suddenly woken up or if we get a shot of her in a hospital bed or something. Not unlike the dude selling his blood, or the Roadhouse ending sequences, I like them as stand-alone vignettes (and I call them vignettes in a non-pejorative sense). Basically, my favorite parts are a mix of Dumbland/Out Yonder and Mulholland Drive, and I think Audrey's scenes are pretty much that.

Clearly we are the Yin and Yang of Twin Peaks viewing experiences. Though, when Audrey kept arguing with Charlie instead of just stepping out the door I experienced a strange mix of both dissatisfaction and fulfilled expectations, and knew I would have also been disappointed if she'd left and broken the illusion and rules of what I thought I was seeing, which is that she can't. This feeling... is maddening (https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-NsEmC23TEec/WE3_HrZ9XOI/AAAAAAAABuQ/rJJENoOxncMyolom-rbtb8F1a-tm4wlfQCLcB/s1600/Berserk%2Bv32%2Bp135.png) (just imagine Lynch's face inside that helmet =).

For the record, I dislike most of the FBI sequences. I don't like the presence of the female agent, and I'm not a fan of Diane either. I roll my eyes whenever they make some kind of discovery, or straight up say shit like what Blue Rose means, which was my least favorite part of this thing so far along with Duchovny's scene.

Yeah, Duchovny's scene did nothing to move the plot or provide an interesting interlude in and of itself, it was just there to bring David Duchovny back for a hot minute. Though, I disagree about the Blue Rose, not because I wanted them to explain that, but because that rather overt explanation reveals that those characters know a lot more about what's going on with Coop(s) than one may have thought. As in, exactly what's going on rather than, "GEE, GOSH, SOMETHING'S NOT RIGHT!?"

That's basically the opposite of how I'm feeling. I hope Cole falls into a hole and dies, and we get more Whose Line Is It Anyway sketches before it's too late. :ganishka:

Well, then you've loved the second half because that's essentially what's happened save for Part 14. I mean, I guess it's no less strange that it was essentially The Gordon Cole Show for a while too.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Walter on August 22, 2017, 06:51:51 PM
Early on, there was a theory thrown around on Reddit that Richard Horne was the child of Mr. C and Audrey Horne. I disregarded it at the time for a few reasons. First, it's downright disgusting if Audrey was indeed in a coma when Mr. C did ...that (though we do know he visited the hospital after that incident). Second, the idea came from Richard's erratic, maniacal behavior, but that's explained in one of Audrey's first lines to Cooper: "emotional problems run in my family." Third, how utterly cruel it'd be for Audrey... But over the past two episodes, we've seen Richard and Mr. C paired together, and now they're riding in the same truck. And the last thing Richard said to him was "Audrey Horne." I'm really starting to worry...
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Griffith on August 22, 2017, 07:25:09 PM
Early on, there was a theory thrown around on Reddit that Richard Horne was the child of Mr. C and Audrey Horne.

 :???:

I disregarded it at the time for a few reasons. First, it's downright disgusting if Audrey was indeed in a coma when Mr. C did ...that (though we do know he visited the hospital after that incident).

 :isidro:

Second, the idea came from Richard's erratic, maniacal behavior, but that's explained in one of Audrey's first lines to Cooper: "emotional problems run in my family." Third, how utterly cruel it'd be for Audrey...

 :azan:

But over the past two episodes, we've seen Richard and Mr. C paired together, and now they're riding in the same truck. And the last thing Richard said to him was "Audrey Horne." I'm really starting to worry...

 :magni:


David Lynch: :rakshas:
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: VengeanceQuest982 on August 23, 2017, 05:41:33 PM
... Sarah Palmer being possessed isn't something that was created for this season it was something seeded within the 1st 2 seasons of the show. If you recall what she says at the RR Diner in the season 2 finale "I'm in The Black Lodge with agent Cooper" and in 3x15 it confirms the Jumping Man is inside her. That and remember episode 3 when we were 1st shown Dougie while Cooper was in that dimension with Naido in the room that had alternating numbers on the wall : 3 (Dougie Arrival ). 15 (Dougie End). aka 3x15 The Return of Dale Cooper.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Walter on August 23, 2017, 06:15:56 PM
... Sarah Palmer being possessed isn't something that was created for this season it was something seeded within the 1st 2 seasons of the show.

...You've lost me, but at least I got to use my own patronizing ellipsis!

Quote
If you recall what she says at the RR Diner in the season 2 finale "I'm in The Black Lodge with agent Cooper" and in 3x15 it confirms the Jumping Man is inside her.

I recall that scene, but it's ambiguous. It doesn't mean she's been possessed all this time. She could have been used as a medium for whatever was communicating from the Black Lodge at that time (taunting Briggs -- who else but Windom Earle).  Possessed later? Possibly. The connective tissue since the beginning with Sarah through the Return is that damned fan.

Quote
That and remember episode 3 when we were 1st shown Dougie while Cooper was in that dimension with Naido in the room that had alternating numbers on the wall : 3 (Dougie Arrival ). 15 (Dougie End). aka 3x15 The Return of Dale Cooper.

That's seriously off the deep end, dude. What makes you think Lynch hides clues in season+episode numbers? I think you've been reading too much Reddit.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Griffith on August 23, 2017, 06:42:10 PM
... Sarah Palmer being possessed isn't something that was created for this season it was something seeded within the 1st 2 seasons of the show. If you recall what she says at the RR Diner in the season 2 finale "I'm in The Black Lodge with agent Cooper" and in 3x15 it confirms the Jumping Man is inside her. That and remember episode 3 when we were 1st shown Dougie while Cooper was in that dimension with Naido in the room that had alternating numbers on the wall : 3 (Dougie Arrival ). 15 (Dougie End). aka 3x15 The Return of Dale Cooper.

Very interesting, especially her Lodge line from season 2, but what confirms it's The Jumping Man we see in Part 14? ...

http://welcometotwinpeaks.com/discuss/twin-peaks-part-15/jumping-man-sarah-palmer/

Oh.

In any case, it's interesting to take a look back at the ol' lodge and see some of the familiar faces in there:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-NfHvGvByZQI/U8U8UCsnEiI/AAAAAAAAAuU/Rt2fZCS2XgA/s1600/24_-_Jumping_Man_-_Smoke_Crate.png

Those beardos didn't stand out so much before!

I recall that scene, but it's ambiguous. It doesn't mean she's been possessed all this time. She could have been used as a medium for whatever was communicating from the Black Lodge at that time (taunting Briggs -- who else but Windom Earle).  Possessed later? Possibly.

Yeah, I definitely think it's a struggle within based on what we're seeing and clearly the entire Palmer family is cursed with this shit somehow. I don't know if it's innate or they were "corrupted" through their various connections to Bob, Laura or Sarah if she was that girl who ate the bug-frog.

That's seriously off the deep end, dude. What makes you think Lynch hides clues in season+episode numbers? I think you've been reading too much Reddit.

I could be wrong in my interpretation of his post (or recollection of episode 3), but my reading of it was he was talking about the numbers on the huge electrical socket wall, which if I recall changed between 3 and 15 during the whole Cooper/Dougie transition and even at the time it felt like something had clearly gone amiss. If I recall there was a clock displayed during the scene so in the moment I thought it had to do with time, like maybe it was the wrong time or something needed to happen at 3:15, but this idea definitely has more potential.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: SuperVegetto on August 26, 2017, 07:48:57 PM
Most people thought the Fireman was the kind of fireman who puts fires out but based on the locomotive/train themes around his house + that Jeffries tea kettle which is actually one of those locomotive things it's becoming increasingly clear that The Fireman is one who stokes fire. What does that entail? After all: "Fire is like the devil, coward who hides behind the smoke"
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Griffith on August 27, 2017, 04:32:12 AM
https://twitter.com/emilyorelse/status/894343665941966848

 :ganishka:

Also, I don't necessarily agree with everything in this article, but the subject is definitely interesting and worthwhile considering Lynch's role designing the sound of the show:

http://www.avclub.com/if-you-want-to-understand-what-s-going-on-in-twin-peaks-1798362242
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Walter on August 28, 2017, 12:47:47 AM
Well, I'm glad someone decided to hit the go button finally.  :daiba:

Cooper is back ("finally"  :ganishka:), and he doesn't miss a goddamned thing. He doesn't need anyone to catch him up on events. He's good to go. Let's transform and roll out motherfuckers, we've only got 3 episodes left.

Diane was a "tulpa" all along, like Dougie. Evil Coop was indeed the father of Richard Horne, which means he raped Audrey (and Diane, apparently, with a hint that Bob was part of it -- his face/smile -- CHRIST).  Anything else you'd like to cash in on this payday episode, Mr. Lynch?!
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Griffith on August 28, 2017, 04:29:33 AM
100% (http://www.skullknight.net/forum/Themes/Recall_20/images/post/thumbup.gif)

Well, I'm glad someone decided to hit the go button finally.  :daiba:

Does it bother you at all that this could have been the 3rd or 4th episode and gone from there? :ganishka:

Cooper is back ("finally"  :ganishka:), and he doesn't miss a goddamned thing. He doesn't need anyone to catch him up on events. He's good to go. Let's transform and roll out motherfuckers, we've only got 3 episodes left.

Diane was a "tulpa" all along, like Dougie. Evil Coop was indeed the father of Richard Horne, which means he raped Audrey (and Diane, apparently, with a hint that Bob was part of it -- his face/smile -- CHRIST).  Anything else you'd like to cash in on this payday episode, Mr. Lynch?!


Yeah, and only two left now, and it's over next week, so it's more like one with this being the de facto penultimate episode, so it's ending just as it truly begins (yeah, I'm sure I'll read somewhere why the last 14 episodes were the real point and possibly greatest expression of art ever made and this part is actually what's perfunctory, but I'm an unwashed plebe that just wanted Coop back =). Cooper was like 110% though, making up for lost time I suppose (and he literally did come out of a fucking coma =), but I think Audrey's dance at the end was like peak Peaks and the moment you knew, "We're really back now, baby!" THE RETURN!

Updated The Return scorecard now including episode 16 (no surprises here =):

(http://www.skullknight.net/griffith/tprsorecard.jpg)
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Eluvei on August 28, 2017, 05:45:18 AM
Another fantastic episode. Dern was great in this one. Every death was incredible, loved the street shootout. Jerry with the damn binoculars. Cole standing around listening to the machines. The hilariously cheap twitching effects on Diane's shoulders before the orb came out of her. How is this show so good? I'm gonna rewatch it immediately after the finale.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Griffith on August 28, 2017, 06:35:06 AM
Every death was incredible, loved the street shootout.

Yes, that was quite the unexpectedly welcome resolution to all that.

Jerry with the damn binoculars. Cole standing around listening to the machines.

Yes, and yes, through which Cole was seemingly hearing Coop's heart monitor somehow.

The hilariously cheap twitching effects on Diane's shoulders before the orb came out of her.

OMG yes, it was like getting ahead of the memes and incorporating them right into the show! Lynch is doing his own youtube poop. I also loved it. :guts:

How is this show so good? I'm gonna rewatch it immediately after the finale.

C'mon man, no thoughts on "Audrey's dance?" Were you at least double faked out for like a second before that while she was listening to Eddie Vedder, er, I mean, Robert Louis Severson? :ganishka:
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Eluvei on August 28, 2017, 12:50:46 PM
Yes, and yes, through which Cole was seemingly hearing Coop's heart monitor somehow.

And when Coop's about to wake up, Bushnell hears the tone from the Great Northern, right? "Listen to the sounds." :SK:

OMG yes, it was like getting ahead of the memes and incorporating them right into the show! Lynch is doing his own youtube poop. I also loved it. :guts:

Yeah, it's hilarious. It oddly fits the show. It's both as shamelessly cheap as the stuff he made by himself in the post-Mulholland Drive years and reminiscent of his early short movies, but maybe because of the clarity and amount of detail from the high def digital cameras, it looks much worse, in a good way.

C'mon man, no thoughts on "Audrey's dance?" Were you at least double faked out for like a second before that while she was listening to Eddie Vedder, er, I mean, Robert Louis Severson? :ganishka:

Hey, just wanted to mention the amazing scenes that would be stand-outs in a regular episode you'd paint yellow in your survival guide, but that had to coexist with Audrey and Coop waking up in this one. :iva: Yeah I thought for sure we'd all been fooled when she walked in while Big Ed Ved was playing his song. As soon as the guy announced "Audrey's dance" I started questioning what the hell has been real all this time. Were all the Roadhouse scenes, which often appeared to be somehow disconnected to the rest of the show in terms of characters, part of her dream? No, that makes no sense, there were familiar characters sometimes. What the fuck's going on? Best show of all time.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Walter on August 28, 2017, 07:32:28 PM
100% (http://www.skullknight.net/forum/Themes/Recall_20/images/post/thumbup.gif)

Does it bother you at all that this could have been the 3rd or 4th episode and gone from there? :ganishka:

It was, in fact, the very first thing that passed through my mind after my elation at Cooper's return subsided.

So if Diane was a tulpa all along, what was the point of her apparent relation to Janey-E? Was that real too, or another fabrication? One would have assumed that (or the ring inscription itself) would have led Gordon and his team to Cooper, but we saw how that search ended up.

I'm not entirely jazzed about the entire season wrapping up next week, even though this episode was firing on all cylinders. It seems to me that it's going to be over too quick, after too long waiting for things to start cranking.

And when Coop's about to wake up, Bushnell hears the tone from the Great Northern, right? "Listen to the sounds." :SK:

Yep, which confirms it to be a lodge manipulation (black or white?), but still sure what the sound in the Great Northern is supposed to represent, unless that's where shit is going to go down in Twin Peaks next ep.

Quote
Were all the Roadhouse scenes, which often appeared to be somehow disconnected to the rest of the show in terms of characters, part of her dream? No, that makes no sense, there were familiar characters sometimes. What the fuck's going on? Best show of all time.

Yeah, it doesn't really add up with the information we have right now. There were certainly "real" scenes that happened at the Roadhouse, since James and Hulk Hands were arrested for that fight. A number of possibilities remain.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Oburi on August 30, 2017, 04:15:07 PM
Dammit. I didn't realize the two part final was the last two episodes on the same night. For some reason I was under the impression that we had two episodes left and the final would be a two parter, like an extra long episode, like Game of Thrones just did. But it'll be over this Sunday. Bummer!

But yea Coopers return was triumphantly awesome.  After the blueballs from when I thought Cooper was returning after getting zapped, this was a jump up and yell type hype. I've been saying "100%" a lot the last few days with a thumbs up.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Griffith on August 30, 2017, 04:56:03 PM
And when Coop's about to wake up, Bushnell hears the tone from the Great Northern, right? "Listen to the sounds." :SK:

Yeah, I noticed it seemed almost intentional there, like to lead Bushnell away, or it was just signaling Coop's return, Mike's drop in, and Busnell walking out was just lucky? It could be some combination that merely signals lodgeness is afoot. I dare not assume it's going to be revealed in the finale at the Great Northern.

Hey, just wanted to mention the amazing scenes that would be stand-outs in a regular episode you'd paint yellow in your survival guide, but that had to coexist with Audrey and Coop waking up in this one. :iva:

Pffff, more like RED, but I wouldn't because this one had a workable balance and framework within which it could effectively present those scenes, which is all I ask in lieu of entire episodes that feel like David Lynch's version of the last half hour of SNL, right down to the musical act. =)

Yeah I thought for sure we'd all been fooled when she walked in while Big Ed Ved was playing his song. As soon as the guy announced "Audrey's dance" I started questioning what the hell has been real all this time. Were all the Roadhouse scenes, which often appeared to be somehow disconnected to the rest of the show in terms of characters, part of her dream? No, that makes no sense, there were familiar characters sometimes. What the fuck's going on? Best show of all time.

 :ganishka:

Well, I'm guessing you're going to enjoy the finale no matter what unless it goes straight FBI plot (which is a virtual impossibility), and I think I will too now that it's setup to basically be the reunion movie anyone would have settled for before this limited series even started (still bummed we won't see Harry + Coop again, or worse, Frank standing in for him). Part of me hopes the twist is that the finale is such a straightforward Coop investigated who-dun-it that it just completely ignores all these bizarre mysteries from the first 16 episodes, "I need to reopen the Laura Palmer case." "The Palmer murder, why?" "Because Laura Palmer isn't dead."

It was, in fact, the very first thing that passed through my mind after my elation at Cooper's return subsided.

Right, wasn't there a teaser trailer where we basically see Coop driving to Twin Peaks? Who know what was a spoiler from the finale. If he doesn't die on the way or something. =)

So if Diane was a tulpa all along, what was the point of her apparent relation to Janey-E? Was that real too, or another fabrication?

I think so, just to give us a very loose connection/explanation of the whole setup with Dougie by Evil Coop and Diane (also provided support for her being under his control and why it mattered earlier).

I'm not entirely jazzed about the entire season wrapping up next week, even though this episode was firing on all cylinders. It seems to me that it's going to be over too quick, after too long waiting for things to start cranking.

Oh yeah, there's way too much interesting stuff for them to spend too much time on any of it, so they either gotta go through it all bang, bang, bang, pick and choose what's important to focus on and ignore what's not, or just do something completely different. I'm guessing it will be the middle approach, but I also wouldn't be surprised to see 100% Coop blazing through problems like a force of nature to reach our true final destination.

Yeah, it doesn't really add up with the information we have right now. There were certainly "real" scenes that happened at the Roadhouse, since James and Hulk Hands were arrested for that fight. A number of possibilities remain.

BTW, what's up with Billy? Is he the guy in the cell below the station repeating shit ala "Dougie Jones"? I thought people were talking about him at the Roadhouse, like getting hurt and arrested, as well as Audrey's preoccupation with him (if they're indeed the same Billy).

Dammit. I didn't realize the two part final was the last two episodes on the same night. For some reason I was under the impression that we had two episodes left and the final would be a two parter, like an extra long episode, like Game of Thrones just did. But it'll be over this Sunday. Bummer!

I was hoping the same, but wishful thinking I suppose. Speaking of TP and Thrones (http://www.rollingstone.com/tv/recaps/game-of-thrones-recap-fire-walk-with-me-w495966) (still love this headline =), talk about a tale of two seasons for these shows: one essentially spent 16 episodes smelling the roses, the plot coming and going almost incidentally, while the other was so destination driven the journey was hardly worth it. They both could have stood to improve by balancing those approaches better, especially Thrones (for all my gripes with the now traditional TP mid-season slump it was certainly better, more meaningful, and thought provoking on a whole other level than GoT ever was). Or one could just watch Rick & Morty (http://www.avclub.com/adult-swim-aired-an-in-memoriam-for-game-of-thrones-1798539409), the best written, most consistent Sunday show on this year.

But yea Coopers return was triumphantly awesome.  After the blueballs from when I thought Cooper was returning after getting zapped, this was a jump up and yell type hype. I've been saying "100%" a lot the last few days with a thumbs up.

They missed the thumbs up in the perfect moment (https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--BMv8fooG--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/v0apcfr746hciwxulxsy.png) after he said he was the FBI!

(http://www.skullknight.net/forum/Themes/Recall_20/images/post/thumbup.gif) :daiba:

This is going to be one of those moments we'll misremember with the thumbs up intact years from now. =) Anyway, some more food for thought going into the finale, these recaps are worth a read on the latest episode and the experience of the season, the fun and the frustrations, as a whole:

http://www.avclub.com/special-agent-dale-cooper-is-100-back-and-so-is-twin-p-1798483175

http://www.avclub.com/twin-peaks-speaks-for-us-all-finally-1798495858
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Eluvei on August 31, 2017, 02:20:02 AM
Well, I'm guessing you're going to enjoy the finale no matter what unless it goes straight FBI plot (which is a virtual impossibility)

Shit, now I'm worried.  :azan:

(still bummed we won't see Harry + Coop again, or worse, Frank standing in for him).

This is gonna be a piping hot take, but I don't really like Ontkean. Even in Slap Shot he looks absolutely disinterested and bored out of his mind. I'm not surprised at all he's retired and doesn't give a shit about this show, because that's what his face was telling me when he was "reacting" (I use the term liberally) to Coop or having a moment with Josie. I don't miss him at all. But yeah, Frank isn't the best idea, even if his Skype session is one of my favorite scenes this season. I'd much prefer Hawk being the sheriff or whatever. I've put this in spoiler tags so that at least a handful of people won't try to shoot me, not because it's a spoiler.

Or one could just watch Rick & Morty (http://www.avclub.com/adult-swim-aired-an-in-memoriam-for-game-of-thrones-1798539409), the best written, most consistent Sunday show on this year.

Man, I'm totally not on board with Rick and Morty this year. I think I only liked the pilot so far.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Griffith on August 31, 2017, 05:10:48 AM
Shit, now I'm worried. :azan:

(https://garmonblogzia.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/2650170242.gif)

This laughing gif is self-defeating though because, c'mon, you know there's going to be at least something like this in there. As a matter of fact... https://m.imgur.com/a/6XJCG

Yeah, no worries.

Quote
This is gonna be a piping hot take, but

This aught to be good... :zodd:

Quote
I don't really like Ontkean. Even in Slap Shot he looks absolutely disinterested and bored out of his mind. I'm not surprised at all he's retired and doesn't give a shit about this show, because that's what his face was telling me when he was "reacting" (I use the term liberally) to Coop or having a moment with Josie. I don't miss him at all.

I dont disagree with your assessment per se, but I thought his faux-affable stiffness was part of the charm (figured he'd be up your alley, but I guess he's too straightforward and not bad enough to be interesting or good bad). He's also Coop's sidekick and foil, it's really the team chemistry and Coop's comradery I'll miss (though we already got a bit of that back with Bushnell and the Mitchums).

Quote
But yeah, Frank isn't the best idea, even if his Skype session is one of my favorite scenes this season. I'd much prefer Hawk being the sheriff or whatever.

Some of Eluvei's other favorite scenes: Jacoby painting shovels, sweeping man, Candie being slow, Sarah Palmer watching TV, Steven inaubly mumbling. Why don't you just admit you secretly hate Cooper too and your real reason for watching the show is Heidi and her laugh! I'm onto you.

Quote
I've put this in spoiler tags so that at least a handful of people won't try to shoot me, not because it's a spoiler.[/spoiler]

Good call, I've followed suit and tagged my replies as well, just in case. (http://www.skullknight.net/forum/Themes/Recall_20/images/post/thumbup.gif)

Quote
Man, I'm totally not on board with Rick and Morty this year. I think I only liked the pilot so far.

I disagree on an episode by episode basis, but I can understand this for the season as a whole (though your objections might be different, YMMV, etc). It's been too much of a normally good thing, like every episode is some deep, dark exploration and deconstruction of the characters, until literally becoming so in the most recent episode, but you can't do that every time out. A little of that goes a long way, like a few big emotional moments or payoffs per season, but it's kind of taking over the show to the point the adventures themselves are suffering and its ironically becoming flat and repetitive with depth. In any case, with the time they took to write it and these results I think they're trying too hard and won't be able to sustain it. The show is still relatively fresh and in it's prime and I feel like they could dial back the quality/quantity ratio a bit and put out more great episodes before they burn out trying to make every one more significant than the last (this is what happened to Gn'R on the Use Your Illusions albums =). I never thought I'd say this but we need an Interdimensional Cable episode (that somehow doesn't devolve into self-loathing).
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Eluvei on August 31, 2017, 08:53:11 PM
He's also Coop's sidekick and foil, it's really the team chemistry and Coop's comradery I'll miss

Yeah, you're right about that.

Some of Eluvei's other favorite scenes: Jacoby painting shovels, sweeping man, Candie being slow, Sarah Palmer watching TV, Steven inaubly mumbling. Why don't you just admit you secretly hate Cooper too and your real reason for watching the show is Heidi and her laugh! I'm onto you.

I only noticed you were making fun of me because you mentioned Heidi. I really love all of those.  :ganishka:

I'm a little disappointed there were more Sarah Palmer scenes after her first one, to be completely honest. I would have found it more powerful if the only time we saw her, was when she's watching that documentary, just so we get a glimpse at how these types of tragedies destroy someone. I did like some of her other scenes a lot, especially the one with Hawk. I try not to think too hard about shit that will obviously be explored in later episodes like what she did at the bar (I don't read Reddit or anything like that, so I dunno what the fan consensus is on that, if there is one) but so far that kinda bummed me out too, I didn't want that character, which I always found incredibly tragic, to have some more plot tied into her.


Quote
Good call, I've followed suit and tagged my replies as well, just in case. (http://www.skullknight.net/forum/Themes/Recall_20/images/post/thumbup.gif)

 :azan:

I disagree on an episode by episode basis, but I can understand this for the season as a whole (though your objections might be different, YMMV, etc). It's been too much of a normally good thing, like every episode is some deep, dark exploration and deconstruction of the characters, until literally becoming so in the most recent episode, but you can't do that every time out. A little of that goes a long way, like a few big emotional moments or payoffs per season, but it's kind of taking over the show to the point the adventures themselves are suffering and its ironically becoming flat and repetitive with depth. In any case, with the time they took to write it and these results I think they're trying too hard and won't be able to sustain it. The show is still relatively fresh and in it's prime and I feel like they could dial back the quality/quantity ratio a bit and put out more great episodes before they burn out trying to make every one more significant than the last (this is what happened to Gn'R on the Use Your Illusions albums =). I never thought I'd say this but we need an Interdimensional Cable episode (that somehow doesn't devolve into self-loathing).

I think you nailed it. And for some reason, I'm finding the jokes too telegraphed this season. Not sure if it was always like this and I just fell out of love with it, or what.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Griffith on September 03, 2017, 05:25:58 AM
I only noticed you were making fun of me because you mentioned Heidi. I really love all of those.  :ganishka:

 :ganishka:

That's why I had to include a tell, I couldn't be sure I wasn't just stating the facts. =)

Quote

I'm a little disappointed there were more Sarah Palmer scenes after her first one, to be completely honest. I would have found it more powerful if the only time we saw her, was when she's watching that documentary, just so we get a glimpse at how these types of tragedies destroy someone. I did like some of her other scenes a lot, especially the one with Hawk. I try not to think too hard about shit that will obviously be explored in later episodes like what she did at the bar (I don't read Reddit or anything like that, so I dunno what the fan consensus is on that, if there is one) but so far that kinda bummed me out too, I didn't want that character, which I always found incredibly tragic, to have some more plot tied into her.

I can understand that, and hopefully they make it worthwhile and she isn't just cast aside or turned into some monster. Since she seems to be one though maybe she was also the "mother" trying to break through the door way back in Part 3. Would that mean Naido,
the eyeless woman, could be Laura Palmer instead of Diane (or something else entirely)? There's your dose of useless speculation.


Quote
I think you nailed it. And for some reason, I'm finding the jokes too telegraphed this season. Not sure if it was always like this and I just fell out of love with it, or what.

I think it's another symptom of them being way up in their own heads, like how many times has Rick commented on something being hacky this season? WE GET IT!


Update: Check out this ridiculousness...

Twin Peaks Action Figures (https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01MV20HWI/ref=mp_s_a_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1504250274&sr=8-9&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=twin+peaks&dpPl=1&dpID=41jpkV6ZOKL&ref=plSrch)

They look pretty good though! And good choices too, though I would have preferred a live Laura Palmer of some sort, maybe the dream/Black Lodge version if they're all supposed to be contemporary, and maybe Audrey or Leland should have got the nod over Log Lady (but that's very plot heavy and she is the perfect representative for the rest of Twin Peaks). Btw, if you look at the related items they also have those stupid Funko POP figures of all the aforementioned characters. There's something not right about such a cute BOB (https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01N4NP4I0/ref=pd_aw_sim_21_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=YZ7XDHKG3HWXP6J84D0A&dpPl=1&dpID=41yFC6LfdNL) figure.



Update 2: Finally watched The Missing Pieces today, so I'm now "100%" going into the finale. (http://www.skullknight.net/forum/Themes/Recall_20/images/post/thumbup.gif) It wasn't a bad or incoherent watch for being a compilation of deleted scenes (the best this side of Wake Up, Ron Burgundy at least =), but then you have to be familiar with everything else for it to work so I can understand what a treat it was for fans to get all those tidbits on the characters, especially the added material on Jeffries and Cooper if you're a plot/lore focused fellow like myself (I can see why the cut the Cooper ending to the margins of Laura's diary to keep the focus on that time, but it was damn fine to get a bit more, and really is essential for understanding things like the ring's chain of custody). Anyway, glad I was able to see it before the finale (but do I have to read the books too? =) I also reviewed Cooper's revival and Audrey's dance. Man, I could have used more 100% Cooper; or at least 90%, like have him be himself but without the memories of who he was and watch him be the best damn Dougie Jones possible for a few episodes; that would have been an interesting alternative with plenty of potential, made his final reawakening a little less jarring for those around him, and his necessary departure even more heartbreaking for them all, including Coop. Anyway, I can't wait to see what the big bad owl god under the moon in the black fire is all about, so I hope we find out! Whether it's Bob's creator, Sarah Palmer, the creature in experiment, or all or none of the above. ^♦^


And if you're not psyched enough going in, check out these awesome comic pop art posters commemorating every week. Parts 1, 8, and 16 are naturally standouts, I'm also partial to 5, 6, 12, 14 (Inoue-esque), and 15, but they're all pretty cool:

http://welcometotwinpeaks.com/inspiration/twin-peaks-posters-18-parts-crisvector/
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Eluvei on September 03, 2017, 05:45:33 PM
Update 2: Finally watched The Missing Pieces today, so I'm now "100%" going into the finale. (http://www.skullknight.net/forum/Themes/Recall_20/images/post/thumbup.gif) It wasn't a bad or incoherent watch for being a compilation of deleted scenes (the best this side of Wake Up, Ron Burgundy at least =), but then you have to be familiar with everything else for it to work so I can understand what a treat it was for fans to get all those tidbits on the characters, especially the added material on Jeffries and Cooper if you're a plot/lore focused fellow like myself (I can see why the cut the Cooper ending to the margins of Laura's diary to keep the focus on that time, but it was damn fine to get a bit more, and really is essential for understanding things like the ring's chain of custody). Anyway, glad I was able to see it before the finale (but do I have to read the books too? =)

I love how Evil Coop still talks in that unnatural, robotic manner, especially when talking to regular honest folk. When he explains how he hit his head on the mirror, it's exactly like how he explains to Gordon how he hit his car and was arrested.

The other bit of continuity that came straight out of Missing Pieces that I remember is how Lucy's trouble understanding cell phones in The Return appears to be related to her not understanding how people can just walk out of a room without hanging up the phone or whatever it was that scared her in that scene.


I watched most of the shorts listed here to prepare for tonight, it's a really good selection: http://metrograph.com/series/series/107/gotta-light

A guy sent me something interesting he found on Reddit. Some dude in a Twin Peaks convention sort of found out why this is the best show:

Quote
David and Mark obviously co-wrote the series... to a point. Around the time they handed things over to Showtime, things changed a bit. Mark went off to write The Secret History of Twin Peaks and David directed the whole thing, but the interesting thing to note here is that, as you all may recall, the series Showtime announced was going to be 8 or 9 episodes. There was that whole drama where David announced he quit, Showtime caved, and now we have 18 episodes. This was NOT a case of the existing material simply being stretched out. According to Sabrina, David actually continued to write. So this seems to have shifted the level of writing involvement more heavily to Lynch than Frost. EDIT: For clarity, it's not that David wrote nine more episodes. It's more like he wrote more scenes interspersed throughout the existing material.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Griffith on September 03, 2017, 08:35:29 PM
I love how Evil Coop still talks in that unnatural, robotic manner, especially when talking to regular honest folk. When he explains how he hit his head on the mirror, it's exactly like how he explains to Gordon how he hit his car and was arrested.

That was the biggest takeaway from the movie for me too, because there wasn't much connective tissue between season 3's stone cold Evil Coop and the manically evil Cooper doppelganger we see in the lodge or smashing his face in the mirror (not that he couldn't evolve), but that scene was it. I was blown away when he started talking in Evil Coop's now signature monotone. I wonder if MacLachlan and Lynch always remembered that or were reminded by the Missing Pieces project.

Quote
A guy sent me something interesting he found on Reddit. Some dude in a Twin Peaks convention sort of found out why this is the best show:

Well, as much as that sounds like an effort by Lynch fans to give him 100% of the credit when he already deservedly gets most of it, it does track with the way the season played out, particularly the indulgences of the second half ("I, er, Gordon needs a 15 minute escourt scene!"). I'm calling BS that he spread it around evenly though when he literally doubled the size of the material; more like what we saw is what happened and he ditched the first half's more structured plotting for a while in the second half to go joy riding, occasionally checking in until it was time to come home. =) I also want to give Frost credit for grounding things just enough to otherwise keep it from completely going off the rails, but I don't really know their working dymamic. Anyway, knowing this makes me appreciate the extras in the series all the more, while also confirming the feeling it didn't need to be so long, but why not?
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Grail on September 04, 2017, 01:16:46 AM
So... The Return is over.

I think I'm still in shock, but my main thought at the moment is that I like how Lynch and Frost took the one indisputable"fact" of the show, Laura's death, and turned it on its head. I'm still trying to unpack everything that's happened, including the mind-boggling last half hour of episode 18, because there's no doubt that there are a few easily-missed details that may help explain what we just witnessed. Richard Horne turned out to be a red herring, and Audrey and Coop never had their reunion! I'm really sad about that. I also wish that Coop would have gotten some more time with the rest of the old cast.

What do folks think about a potential fourth season at this point? I feel like it could go either way. There was no doubt from the beginning that Lynch and Frost had no intention of answering every lingering question from the original run, but I feel like a lot of new characters and ideas were introduced without much of an idea of what they were intended to communicate. What was the deal with the drug addicted lady saying "119?" What about Bob's "Mother"? Who was the friend of the Fireman who held Laura's orb and gave it a good luck kiss? And what in the hell ever happened to Billy?! :ganishka:

Ultimately, I enjoyed the ride, but I'm still raring for more. Time to pre-order my copy of the Final Dossier. :casca:


EDIT: Forgot to add that this episode gave me some classic Lynch/Lost Highway vibes. The theme of somebody not being who they think they are, or their identity changing, is a theme you see in a lot of Lynch's work. The inconclusive nature of the last moments of the episode definitely carried that feeling, as well.

Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Walter on September 04, 2017, 02:25:39 AM
Shock is a good word for it.

I don't even know where to begin. When you start messing not only with time, but also pocket dimensions, AND David Lynch is at the helm, I'm not exactly sure how anyone is expected to follow along. I'll just lay out where my head is at the moment.

Fairly sure in Ep 18, they were in a pocket-dimension, where the real Laura was being kept. Hidden perhaps after she was snatched from Cooper's hand? And Coop probably wasn't supposed to take Laura back to her home. Chalfont/Tremond is of course, the name of the old woman and her grandson, who also owned the property where Chester Desmond disappeared from. The powerline was also a Black Lodge giveaway. Perhaps the house was a kind of trap, set there in case something like this happened. Then the trap sprung upon Laura's appearance (and the apparent appearance of Sarah/Mother). Just before Laura screams, you can hear Sarah's moaning (from the scene at the end of ep 17).

Or they were in a timeline where Laura was never killed. Makes less sense, but who the fuck knows?

In ep 17, Cooper looses hold of Laura's hand when they're near that big ass tree. The same one that asshole-face "died" next to? What the fuck does that signify?

Oh yeah and Cooper didn't remember "Richard and Linda," and I'm not sure why we were supposed to.

I love/hate how Lynch bothers to bring back Twin Peaks ostensibly to tie up loose ends after the abrupt ending, only to leave us with another one with even MORE loose ends. :ganishka:  :judo:

That ending though, holy shit. Gonna stay with me.


PS: Funny thing I learned by Googling "Odessa Twin Peaks," there's a Hooters-esque sports bar in Odessa, TX named Twin Peaks.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Eluvei on September 04, 2017, 03:01:44 AM
I think I'm still in shock

Yeah, holy shit. What a ride. I feel very weird right now.

Just before Laura screams, you can hear Sarah's moaning (from the scene at the end of ep 17).

Fairly sure it's Sarah calling Laura in the pilot episode when she notices she's not coming down to go to school. It's also heard when Coop has his dream of the Red Room two episodes after that. Wow, that sounded pedantic as hell, I'm sorry.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Skeleton on September 04, 2017, 04:17:04 AM
PS: Funny thing I learned by Googling "Odessa Twin Peaks," there's a Hooters-esque sports bar in Odessa, TX named Twin Peaks.

They're all over the place down here. And they're Pacific Northwest/Rocky Mountains/lumberjack themed too so it's like being in the show itself! (And depending on which one you go to there might even be a biker bar fight scene! (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Waco_shootout))
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Griffith on September 04, 2017, 06:49:18 AM
My own running thoughts before I read any of yours:

I wasn't too surprised by much in the first hour, I expected Evil Cooper and the "plotty" stuff to be dispatched and dispensed with quickly (good thing hulk fist was there to kill Bob, RIP, I can't help but view this as a parody of a traditional resolution =), I didn't really expect any more clear lore answers or understanding than we already had (I was actually a bit a afraid anything so explicit would be a disappointment), and I hoped for things to come back around to Laura and Sarah Palmer (which it did, almost, with some heavy duty Judy implications). Cooper saving Laura and BTTFing the show's premise out existence was certainly "mind blowing," though I think just having the real Coop meeting the real Laura back in her time was more genuinely breathtaking. As a storytelling device it's not extraordinary though, not normal or anything, but it's not unlike things we've seen in recent years on GoT and plenty more elsewhere in this "genre." The second half is where things get interesting, and weird, and boring, and confusing, and funny, and sad and eureka, and done. I don't know if this is accurate, but in the moment I found myself appreciating the idea that Dale completely screwed up and failed and we weren't going to see the big final confrontation/reunion of momentous importance, or, to be more kind, things just didn't work out! Or did they? I think it's a natural reaction to feel left wanting. To think, "THAT'S IT!?" That's kind of the feeling you're initially left with, right? I was reminded of The Sopranos finale, like maybe my cable box or, in this case, the Internet went down. It's at least the last time I remember staring at a black screen having it dawn on me that it was over but hoping for the next image, except this time it was just an image of Dale Cooper behind the credits rolling getting some bad news, his face mirroring my own. But, it was basically confirmed that it is Laura, that she remembers herself and recognizes the house, and that the house and everything associated with it responds accordingly. Is that enough, does it matter we don't get the big payoff setup with Laura, her mother and/or Judy, do we need the magic fist of destiny to punch the ball o' bad 'til its head esplodes, or is it better this way? Or is it a copout because while we're all weirded out, cutoff and denied just at the moment of truth, and left asking what it all means, it's because no meaning was actually provided, but a trick for us to endlessly perceive it? Anticipation as payoff.


I think I'm still in shock, but my main thought at the moment is that I like how Lynch and Frost took the one indisputable"fact" of the show, Laura's death, and turned it on its head.

Yes and no, we've seen that trick before (like in Ash vs. Evil Dead), so I really wanted to see what they did to justify "going home again" this way.

there's no doubt that there are a few easily-missed details that may help explain what we just witnessed.

I especially like Laura Palmer's decor.

What do folks think about a potential fourth season at this point? I feel like it could go either way. There was no doubt from the beginning that Lynch and Frost had no intention of answering every lingering question from the original run, but I feel like a lot of new characters and ideas were introduced without much of an idea of what they were intended to communicate. What was the deal with the drug addicted lady saying "119?" What about Bob's "Mother"? Who was the friend of the Fireman who held Laura's orb and gave it a good luck kiss? And what in the hell ever happened to Billy?! :ganishka:

Ultimately, I enjoyed the ride, but I'm still raring for more. Time to pre-order my copy of the Final Dossier. :casca:

You're certainly more game than I at the moment, just the fact that everything you mentioned was left as is, along with half the unanswered questions from the original run, only tells me that subsequent series won't be answering those questions either but only generating more they won't answer. I'm not saying that's a bad thing or that it should be the point, just that it doesn't seem to be the point. I think I prefer this ending at the moment, as interesting as it would be to watch them pick it up from here and work through it only to end up somewhere similar.

Shock is a good word for it.

I don't even know where to begin. When you start messing not only with time, but also pocket dimensions, AND David Lynch is at the helm, I'm not exactly sure how anyone is expected to follow along. I'll just lay out where my head is at the moment.

Interesting explanations of things, I try to just go with the flow and not think of it too technically, just "Coop saves Laura so Laura is alive for Coop to find." The dimensions or timelines are whatever they are, and pretty much impossible to know for sure as you say. It occurred to me that Laura could have been returned from that time in her own version of being "Dougie Jones."

And Coop probably wasn't supposed to take Laura back to her home. Chalfont/Tremond is of course, the name of the old woman and her grandson, who also owned the property where Chester Desmond disappeared from.

Son. Of. A. Bitch. I knew those names were familiar but didn't catch it, still...

The powerline was also a Black Lodge giveaway. Perhaps the house was a kind of trap, set there in case something like this happened. Then the trap sprung upon Laura's appearance (and the apparent appearance of Sarah/Mother). Just before Laura screams, you can hear Sarah's moaning (from the scene at the end of ep 17).

This was the sense I was getting during the scene, or the sense my mind was trying to make of it; this is BS, some sort of security measure to keep them out, etc and more or less confirmed by Laura's awakening and scream.

I love/hate how Lynch bothers to bring back Twin Peaks ostensibly to tie up loose ends after the abrupt ending, only to leave us with another one with even MORE loose ends. :ganishka:  :judo:

Yep, but are you itching for another season making even less sense with even more loose ends to explain these!? In a few more seasons it will just be an incomprehensible set of moving shapes and sounds.

That ending though, holy shit. Gonna stay with me.
Yeah, holy shit. What a ride. I feel very weird right now.

Agreed and clearly that was the intention. Perpetual anticipation, perpetual payoff, no disappointment...? I need to re-watch it more closely (I'm still replaying it in my head though), but a snarky, reductive part of me can't help but think, "It was the Sopranos ending, right down to the blackout." =)

Fairly sure it's Sarah calling Laura in the pilot episode when she notices she's not coming down to go to school. It's also heard when Coop has his dream of the Red Room two episodes after that. Wow, that sounded pedantic as hell, I'm sorry.

Don't be, that's a good catch (you can totally hear "Laura"), and what did you think besides feeling weird (is that dissonance over whether it was good or not, how good, or is that representative of the goodness itself =)? You had to be worried in the beginning when it was going full FBI chalk, but then it only got progressively less traditional as it went along with plenty of the sort of weird moments you enjoy along the way. BTW, I can't believe I'm the first person to mention Diane, or who or whatever she ended up being. You want pedantic? I swear her hair changed color to a more pink, as opposed to orangey, red after we saw the other Diane outside the hotel lobby and this signaled that she'd been changed/replaced by a tulpa. No idea if there's anything to this but it made me feel bad for her & Coop.

Oh, and we could have known this line would sum everything up, "WHAT THE HELL JUST HAPPENED!?" Upon review I also couldn't help but take Cooper's final line, "What year is this?" as a commentary on trying to "come home again" like they were literally but also with this endeavor as a whole.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Walter on September 04, 2017, 11:47:10 AM
https://twitter.com/Seinfeld2000/status/904568942877843456
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Griffith on September 04, 2017, 03:21:12 PM
https://twitter.com/Seinfeld2000/status/904568942877843456

 :ganishka:

I'm rewatching 17 and 18 this morning and getting all those details again i forgot to write about like Brigg's disembodied head, Evil Coop cage, Andy's picnic basket, superimposed Coop head saying we live in a dream, and we haven't even gone to February 23rd, 1989, where Cooper was tofind Judy.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: VengeanceQuest982 on September 04, 2017, 03:34:58 PM
I think that we were given the darkest telling of the tale of Orpheus and Eurydice ever in the series finale to Twin Peaks The Return . When this is released on BD I'm gonna do a complete rewatch of the series from 1 - 3 as everything we saw in those seasons will be from a new perspective now knowing what was revealed in the 3rd season.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Walter on September 04, 2017, 03:36:46 PM
:ganishka:

I'm rewatching 17 and 18 this morning and getting all those details again i forgot to write about like Brigg's disembodied head, Evil Coop cage, Andy's picnic basket, superimposed Coop head saying we live in a dream, and we haven't even gone to February 23rd, 1989, where Cooper was tofind Judy.

Indeed, Evil Coop infiltrating the White Lodge only to end up in a "projection" of Twin Peaks, which happened to be the Twin Peaks that we know, led to an "oh shit" moment for me. And of course, Coop's "we live inside a dream" solidified it. ... What was inside the picnic basket?

These episodes have been swimming in my head since last night. Two more things. Evil Coop was searching for Judy, just like Coop was. They both got help from Jefferies. His direction for Coop seemed to be on the money, even though he got there in a roundabout way. Which makes me wonder if Evil Coop did/will end up meeting with Judy as well. Finally, the nature for Cooper's help was quite different. It wasn't coordinates, but a figure-8.

EDIT: Ah, now I get it. Evil Coop was headed for Sarah's home, but the Fireman intercepted it, sending him to Twin Peaks Sheriff's Office (and the trap he had laid there).
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Eluvei on September 04, 2017, 04:18:01 PM
Don't be, that's a good catch (you can totally hear "Laura"), and what did you think besides feeling weird (is that dissonance over whether it was good or not, how good, or is that representative of the goodness itself =)? You had to be worried in the beginning when it was going full FBI chalk, but then it only got progressively less traditional as it went along with plenty of the sort of weird moments you enjoy along the way. BTW, I can't believe I'm the first person to mention Diane, or who or whatever she ended up being.

Honestly having a hard time organizing my thoughts. I loved it, thought it was the best thing since FWWM probably. Guess the short of it is, I think this is the most metatextual Lynch has ever been. As soon as real Diane shows up with hair and nails painted in the colors of the Red Room, it got as blatant as Norma's talk with the Showtime executive. And soon after that, Coop's superimposed head, which shows up as everyone's gathered celebrating the cartoonish resolution (Evil Ball is punched by a superhero down into a firey hell pit; some individual characters' happy endings felt genuine, this one did not), tells us we live inside a dream, while looking at us. Then the protagonist, the Red Room embodiment, and the director of this television show lead us to the past to try and force the show into having an even happier ending. Get the fuck outta here. There's no way Gordon would be in that scene with them if it wasn't for some kind of wink & nudge to the audience.

By trying to bring Laura back, he ends up in a reality where the person who lives there is the actual resident of that house in real life, and all it apparently accomplishes is making Laura remember what happened to her. Jesus Christ.

Some random thoughts: I don't think it's a coincidence Cooper is called Richard in this reality, and the only other Richard is the most caricaturally evil human in the show. And we figure out he's Richard after that disturbing sex scene where Diane tries to cover his face (the "sex" song being abruptly cut off to reveal a Silent Hill ambient music, Christ). Two episodes ago we found out she (or her tulpa) was raped by Coop (or his doppleganger). This was some ending of Mulholland Drive type of thing for sure. Maybe in 20 years I'll have a solid theory.

Sarah trying to destroy Laura's portrait as he's bringing her back into life was scary as hell. Did she know it was impossible, and attempting to do that would only bring more pain, make the dark hole in her face grow even more?

Loved hearing the Fire Walk With Me poem again, MIKE rules.

Jerry's journey of all things having a resolution out of nowhere was hilarious.

Edit: I keep thinking of that scene from Part 2 in the Red Room, when Laura's whisked away by some force as she screams in terror after we're shown she's filled with light. That's how that last episode felt to me. Right now I think these two final episodes were in some ways a lot like a short film/documentary that had a great impact on Lynch, Georges Franju's Blood of the Beasts: it shows some peaceful footage of a boy and a girl walking around innocently, and then it abruptly cuts to a huge white horse, and it shows it entering a slaughterhouse where it's brutally killed and gutted and dismembered.
:daiba:
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Griffith on September 05, 2017, 05:49:48 AM
I finished watching them again this morning and repeated the last 15 minutes or so a couple times more and am struck by how neatly separated the two final episodes are in a way. Episode 17 is practically an ideal ending in every way as Eluvei points out, that is until Laura vanishes into screaming air, which follows the current, if there is such a thing, Sarah Palmer destroying her picture (perhaps implying causation). It totally could have ended there to similar effect but 18 basically resets with Coop from there in the lodge where a lot of important information is reviewed before he finally departs the way he originally came (this might as well directly follow the season 2 finale =), where Diane is waiting for him (the curtain call). Then it becomes that strange odyssey to "find Laura," like a new beginning or a self-contained Laura-centric follow up ala FWWM. It's also both the most surreal and realistic part of the series tone-wise, surreal to the norm of Twin Peaks anyway, because here Coop is acting more like a normal man, or even Mr. C, than his usual paragon throughout (also, not that it matters, but he only picks up 2 of the 3 cowboys guns yet disposes of all 3 =). Another detail I'm fascinated by is the car Cooper and Diane are in, they clearly start out in a vintage model but the next day Coop leaves in a far more contemporary looking vehicle ("What year is this?"). I'm not really driving at anything new here, just collecting observations and thoughts. Then of course he finds "Laura" or whatever equivalent Carrie Page is and tries to tie it altogether with Sarah at the Palmer house and YMMV at his success (for what it's worth the actor playing the Chalfont/Tremond woman is the real life homeowner). It seems to me that 17 is the big heroic finish to make everything perfect, and 18 is the fucked up aftermath of something so dangerously ambitious, basically screwing things up worse than Bob or Mr. C could ever imagine. At least that's one way to see it, after all we don't know what happens after unless that really is the Sopranos ending except Cooper and Laura just assassinated the universe (there was nothing more to see =). Otherwise, despite the extended travel log aspects and narrative blue balls following the final scene it was all pretty fucking eventful; Cooper successfully brought Laura back to life and to her house through space, time, and multiple dimensions and yet to a more haunting end, so rather than leaving us wanting it might be considered pretty fucking above and beyond considering it could have just ended pat in Episode 17 before slinking away to Julie Cruise's reprise of, "The World Spins.” This also, in real time watching last night no less, reminded me a bit of the ending(s) to The Dark Tower *spoiler alert*, of which there's at least 3, one that's just the facts, Roland overcomes the over-the-top final obstacle and enters the tower, a ridiculous mega happy ending for all his friends, and a disclaimer begging you not to read further that precedes the real, not-so-satisfying, ending. =)
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Eluvei on September 06, 2017, 02:16:32 AM
It's also both the most surreal and realistic part of the series tone-wise, surreal to the norm of Twin Peaks anyway, because here Coop is acting more like a normal man, or even Mr. C, than his usual paragon throughout

Yeah there's absolutely a more verite look to those scenes. I mean, we watched Agent Cooper filling his gas at Valero. But also, it had a kind of odd violent wild west vibe with the shootout and the rotting body, so yeah, realistic and surreal sounds right. Extremely weird.

Another detail I'm fascinated by is the car Cooper and Diane are in, they clearly start out in a vintage model but the next day Coop leaves in a far more contemporary looking vehicle ("What year is this?"). I'm not really driving at anything new here, just collecting observations and thoughts.

The motel was also a different one when he wakes up. It definitely looked like Coop and Diane were following some kind of script to change the reality even then. "Turn the lights off. You come here to me." Like it was some kind of ritual they had to perform correctly. The sex scene being no exception.

Cooper successfully brought Laura back to life and to her house through space, time, and multiple dimensions and yet to a more haunting end, so rather than leaving us wanting it might be considered pretty fucking above and beyond considering it could have just ended pat in Episode 17 before slinking away to Julie Cruise's reprise of, "The World Spins.”

Yeah, if after Inland Empire his next project ended with the super glove defeating the evil ball in earnest and Candie being glad she brought so many sandwiches for the wrap party, I dunno what I would have thought. That was kind of a foreboding music choice though, wasn't it? Last time we heard it, was in the "it is happening again" scene.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: NightCrawler on September 06, 2017, 02:34:21 AM
I don't have any big take and i'm trying hard not to geek out over all the theories, i just wanted to say i found the whole experience rather cold and sterile. The lack of music made a big difference, Lynch's sound design is serviceable, but it's only half of the dream-like state his films induce. It seems Badalamenti was only credited but didn't add anything new. A shame, for the lack of a proper score gave me a sense of detachment and a lack of vibrancy i get when i watch his stuff. The bad digital effects expanded on the absence of emotion for me. I felt completely uncaring for most of the events until part 18 hit me several hours later.
If FWWM had some form of redemption at the end, this season had none. No heart or soul (Dougie was the closest to it), and the bleakest ending possible. A lost Coop, losing his humanity while realizing that Laura can't be saved, no matter how much the world has changed, suffering is perpetual.

No one screams like Sheryl Lee.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Griffith on September 06, 2017, 05:01:20 PM
Yeah there's absolutely a more verite look to those scenes. I mean, we watched Agent Cooper filling his gas at Valero. But also, it had a kind of odd violent wild west vibe with the shootout and the rotting body, so yeah, realistic and surreal sounds right. Extremely weird.

It was almost like a cartoon character being transported into the real world. Coop was still relatively good, heroic and competent, but it wasn't squeaky clean and he didn't have the same perfect composure (I mean, he pointed that gun at the waitress too =). I wouldn't go as far as Nighty and say he lost his humanity, actually I think you could argue he became more human for his relative flaws, not less, but he definitely lost his innocence in a way we didn't even see in the black lodge. MacLachlan described his direction for Richard as a bit "harder" than the normal Coop and I really appreciate his performance in this episode, the tone of his "what" in response to the cowboy is right out of the Mr. C playbook and I think about the closest you'll hear to the real Coop egging someone on. So, in its own strange way this felt like a new start and the most real and in depth we've ever gone with Coop (and I wondered how he was going to fit into the new show once reestablished), like we were meeting a real Agent Cooper for the first time after we got the platonic ideal again in episode 16. Of course, you should never meet your heroes.

The motel was also a different one when he wakes up.

Well, of course I missed THAT. :schierke:

It definitely looked like Coop and Diane were following some kind of script to change the reality even then. "Turn the lights off. You come here to me." Like it was some kind of ritual they had to perform correctly. The sex scene being no exception.

They're performing the ritual of a prestige television show! They needed to have a gratuitous sex scene in order to advance time to a future point, then Coop needed to have a hard-boiled confrontation that really puts him over with us and only then can he find Laura and go back to Twin Peaks. Except that doesn't work either, Laura's not Laura, Twin Peaks just looks like any empty streets at night, and Laura's house has real people living in it. Maybe Lynch was hoping that at some point this ritual would conjure  Judy or the experiment in our televisions so it could break out and slaughter us. Now that would have been an ending (I think even if Lynch had pulled a cheesy jump scare like that I'd have still had a coronary or shat my pants =)!

Yeah, if after Inland Empire his next project ended with the super glove defeating the evil ball in earnest and Candie being glad she brought so many sandwiches for the wrap party, I dunno what I would have thought.

My guess as to your reaction in that case: "Still the Best Show Ever!" :carcus: But yeah, this is definitely a revelation and significant work after a decade of relative inactivity. Vintage Lynch whether you think its among his best work or not.

That was kind of a foreboding music choice though, wasn't it? Last time we heard it, was in the "it is happening again" scene.

Good call on the relative timing (when Laura herself should have been getting murdered), but it's also just more classic Peaks because that Julie Cruise music is all over the original soundtrack. BTW, also good time to note Coop was never above screwing up as the Giant is literally waving his arms at him and telling him the killer is striking again while he's just like "HUH?" It was hilariously about the least subtle or confusing message delivered on the show.

I don't have any big take and i'm trying hard not to geek out over all the theories, i just wanted to say i found the whole experience rather cold and sterile.

Awww, I hope it didn't all feel to you like episodes 12 and 13 to me, because that's where it obviously lost me, and others, for a bit. Also, not to accuse you of contrarianism (never =), but I think it'd be easier to note the show's virtues rather than its flaws if all the critics weren't climbing over each other to be the loudest to declare it the greatest thing ever without really explaining why they think so (a fair thing to reject if you feel it falls short). Maybe the show just wholly didn't do it for you and you weren't paying any attention to the hype, but it worked for me despite the fact I saw a bunch of pub blowing it and saying it's a whole "new proactive paradigm" for television... in ways that will be explained another time. Not that my critical take is much better, basically describing it a series of offbeat stimuli that makes me feel some unfamiliar sensations that I ultimately like experiencing (put that on the back if the blu-ray).

The lack of music made a big difference, Lynch's sound design is serviceable, but it's only half of the dream-like state his films induce. It seems Badalamenti was only credited but didn't add anything new. A shame, for the lack of a proper score gave me a sense of detachment and a lack of vibrancy i get when i watch his stuff.

I can see, er hear, what you mean. The music was very subdued most of the time, to the point that my wife and I would have subtitles on and notice it saying [ambient music] and that was basically our only indication that the barely audible droning tone was providing any bed of music to a scene. I thought this was largely intentional though for contrast with the tone of the original (and particularly the town of Twin Peaks itself, which stood out like a sore thumb to the rest of the world, but I think that proved purposeful too), and that the big musical moments, particularly the return of iconic Twin Peaks scores, were being used judiciously to punctuate those moments. I otherwise thought the sound was pretty excellent at conveying the feel of the story, even if it was a less is more approach overall. 

The bad digital effects expanded on the absence of emotion for me.

I agreed with your assessment of the effects in the early episodes and objectively found them hit or miss throughout, but by the time we reached Diane's first farewell it was clearly part of the aesthetic experience, not a hurdle to it.

I felt completely uncaring for most of the events until part 18 hit me several hours later.

It hit definitely hit though, and judging from your assessment below it doesn't sound like it's making you feel nothing anymore. I guess I had a better experience throughout, I definitely felt a lot of interesting feelings watching, albeit sometimes exasperation, but it was definitely a worthwhile viewing experience that made me consider the way media makes me feel, why, and why don't more shows make me feel these different sort of untapped emotions watching or seemingly even try? I think everything that came before definitely sets up the way the ending leaves you feeling as well. It was ultimately still the journey, but a different sort, more insular despite the explicit, and perhaps extraneous, lore and theories, with different narrative priorities, milestones, and goals, or lack thereof, than we're used to.

If FWWM had some form of redemption at the end, this season had none. No heart or soul (Dougie was the closest to it), and the bleakest ending possible. A lost Coop, losing his humanity while realizing that Laura can't be saved, no matter how much the world has changed, suffering is perpetual.

Hey man, death is change and happiness is but an illusion... or dream (and I hope this cheers you up a bit despite the crude effects =).

(http://www.skullknight.net/griffith/facesofcoop.jpg)

No one screams like Sheryl Lee.

Indeed, make room in the Scream Queen Hall of Fame Fay Wray and Jamie Lee Curtis. Good lord I had to have the volume control handy after like the 2nd scream, she still got me at the end.


Anyway, again, no surprises (except I wasn't so sure what to rate it right after =):

(http://www.skullknight.net/griffith/tprsorecard.jpg)
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: NightCrawler on September 06, 2017, 08:29:22 PM
The more i think about part 18, and how meta this season was, it becomes clearer that what i felt about this season was what Lynch intended me to feel. I enjoyed the experience. I wasn't trying to criticize its flaws, but its message, and ultimately, Lynch's cynicism. What irked me is that the emotional grandeur of Lynch's films (and the underlying hope amidst the chaos) was not present purposively. The contrast between the naive sentimentality and the cruel harsh reality was barely there, because it was all covered in sarcasm and parody. There was no greater ideal to fight for, just a somewhat charming mumbling retard.
As for the meta part, we got quite a bit of it throughout the season that should've prepared us for that finale, but still... That last ep showed such disenchantment on Lynch's part, such a contrast from part 17 (where TP was still fully in its fictional world), then suddenly everything gets transported to this pseudo-real world, and the message is clear, we're fully awake here, everyone is lost and confused, there's no more dream. And who was the dreamer but the audience? No hay banda. I get it Lynch. I just preferred when the dismal reality of TP was about abuse and not some looping meta existentialism. But really, don't get me wrong, i enjoyed it guys. :ganishka: I'll rewatch it for sure.

Also, i don't get how people can say this ended in a cliffhanger or we need another season? Yeah, they could pull something out of their asses if they wanted, but this was as definitive as it could ever get. Lynch went back and destroyed everything (it's almost like he made a point of corrupting nostalgia), there's no more TP, but at least Pete can finally go fishing.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Eluvei on September 06, 2017, 09:36:44 PM
BTW, also good time to note Coop was never above screwing up as the Giant is literally waving his arms at him and telling him the killer is striking again while he's just like "HUH?" It was hilariously about the least subtle or confusing message delivered on the show.

No doubt. I always thought the Giant sounded... disappointed? And yeah it's kinda hilarious for the guy to interrupt a concert to tell him he sucks as a detective. :ganishka:

The contrast between the naive sentimentality and the cruel harsh reality was barely there, because it was all covered in sarcasm and parody. There was no greater ideal to fight for, just a somewhat charming mumbling retard.

Hard disagree with this. I can understand being negatively affected by the "bad story", as Sarah puts it, that this show is ultimately about, but I thought there were several instances of genuine happiness and peace that were not supposed to be seen as sarcastic, even when they were over the top. Most of them connected to Dougie, yes (he basically made everyone try to become a better person in his storyline), but even Albert, the once cynical guy, had that little moment on a date with that woman, while Cole watched in obvious genuine happiness. Not to mention Norma and Big Ed. If you thought that sequence was supposed to be a complete parody, then I think you could say that about every instance like that in his other movies, like the robin eating the bug at the end of Blue Velvet: maybe it was robotic and artificial on purpose. I don't buy it though.

I mean even Part 8 had a sequence dedicated to the birth of literal hope in the middle of what was essentially a horror movie.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: NightCrawler on September 07, 2017, 12:54:17 AM
I agree there were tender moments, but you're looking at them in a vacuum, in the big picture they seemed masked by the pretense that it's all a dream, that we the viewers are playing along in a perversion of nostalgia. Even the fan service was ridiculously on the nose.

Yes, the robin in BV is purposely fake, there's more than one shot of it to make it clear. These are themes that Lynch reuses, but with Inland Empire, and this Return of TP the darkness at the end seemed to have surpassed all hope.


Here's a good DL quote that defines a lot of his work:

"Being in darkness and confusion is interesting to me. But behind it you can rise out of that and see things the way the really are. That there is some sort of truth to the whole thing, if you could just get to that point where you could see it, and live it, and feel it ... I think it is a long, long, way off. In the meantime there's suffering and darkness and confusion and absurdities, and it's people kind of going in circles. It's fantastic. It's like a strange carnival: it's a lot of fun, but it's a lot of pain."
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Eluvei on September 07, 2017, 01:40:26 AM
I agree there were tender moments, but you're looking at them in a vacuum, in the big picture they seemed masked by the pretense that it's all a dream, that we the viewers are playing along in a perversion of nostalgia. Even the fan service was ridiculously on the nose.

Yes, the robin in BV is purposely fake, there's more than one shot of it to make it clear. These are themes that Lynch reuses, but with Inland Empire, and this Return of TP the darkness at the end seemed to have surpassed all hope.


Here's a good DL quote that defines a lot of his work:

"Being in darkness and confusion is interesting to me. But behind it you can rise out of that and see things the way the really are. That there is some sort of truth to the whole thing, if you could just get to that point where you could see it, and live it, and feel it ... I think it is a long, long, way off. In the meantime there's suffering and darkness and confusion and absurdities, and it's people kind of going in circles. It's fantastic. It's like a strange carnival: it's a lot of fun, but it's a lot of pain."

I mean, it's obviously fake, but not in a way that's supposed to make the scene evoke a false sense of peace. And that quote proves this point: he may use artifice and dreams to show glimpses of beauty in a bad world, but not necessarily to make it look the only way to find happiness is to live in a state of ignorance. It looks like to you, the definition of "dream" is close to that of "lie", and I don't think to Lynch it is. He says it's a lot of fun and pain, not just pain.

That quote is basically TM's whole philosophy, closing your eyes to see beyond, et cetera. Big Ed is literally shown meditating before his life is permanently fixed in the show. Unless he wanted to make a parody of his own world view, I don't see how that was pure nostalgia baiting and sarcasm. Also, I don't think the quote necessarily defines his work. It doesn't define every aspect of it, anyway. A lot of dumb shit in this show was there for the sake of humor, sometimes inappropriately so. Some Dumbland type of stuff in almost every episode, most of it starring himself. If Coop's storyline ending on a macabre note defines the entire show and his worldview, and the other conclusions (or lack thereof) are less important, you're looking at it in a vacuum. I don't think he "destroyed everything" as you put it. He destroyed some stuff, but he built a lot in almost every episode.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: VengeanceQuest982 on September 07, 2017, 02:32:23 PM
...And lets not forget that what we thought was an owl symbol on BOB's ring has in fact been an inverted symbol for "Judy " this entire time. The music in the 3rd and likely final season has had a critical narrative and character overflow  : from The Chromatics "Shadow, Rebekah Del Rios's "No Stars", Eddie Vedder's "Out of Sand" to the list of classic 50s/60's musical acts --that centered around Cooper and his various shadows falling in defeat together, Cooper going back to where it all began , or a hollow and broken Cooper weighed down by his fighting tides he could not win against  or around individual characters not tethered to the larger story.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Eluvei on September 07, 2017, 07:35:30 PM
Really enjoyed reading this take, even if some things here and there don't really fit completely: http://www.waggish.org/2017/twin-peaks-finale/
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Walter on September 07, 2017, 07:44:29 PM
I forgot to mention: "See you at the curtain call" was one of the coolest goodbye lines ever. Though somewhat downgraded by them being reunited next to an actual curtain.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Griffith on September 08, 2017, 07:21:58 AM
No doubt. I always thought the Giant sounded... disappointed? And yeah it's kinda hilarious for the guy to interrupt a concert to tell him he sucks as a detective. :ganishka:

His tone borders on betrayed, but he could have been more straightforward sooner, still...

(http://www.themarysue.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/nonono.gif)

"What does it all mean?! :???:"

And I have no idea why this popped up in the image search but here you go:

(https://static.tumblr.com/2e10a7cc8a735d9e5f86e2b322433f3d/gppnsbc/uVkn47z4x/tumblr_static_1bc0eudrtrwkcw4wg0kkgso48.gif)

Effects test for season 4 of Twin Peaks: The Explanation starring Annie & Audrey

Really enjoyed reading this take, even if some things here and there don't really fit completely: http://www.waggish.org/2017/twin-peaks-finale/

Damn fine read, and like you said you don't have to agree with all the details or conclusions but at least it lays out a logical framework of the facts to work with, and you can't reject it for being too zany because the logic of the lodges is. Anyway, that's the best postmortem I've read, not that the competition is great ("it's about the show and ending and stuff!"); these are about the only other two I liked, but they focused more on what Lynch was saying rather than what was technically happening, echoing your conversation with Nightcrawler that I didn't feel quite comfortable wading into (the second article in particular touches on a lot of the same themes you debated with Nighty and obviously comes away with a more positive interpretation):

https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/9/3/16250822/twin-peaks-finale-recap-part-17-18-the-return

http://www.avclub.com/twin-peaks-gave-us-a-moving-meditation-on-death-1800661325


Oh, and I looked up the first episode of Dumbland. :ganishka:

I forgot to mention: "See you at the curtain call" was one of the coolest goodbye lines ever. Though somewhat downgraded by them being reunited next to an actual curtain.

Speaking of bad articles, there's paid writers out there poetically lamenting that "there'll never be that curtain call" without mentioning the fact Coop and Diane literally reunite next to a giant red stage curtain! Anyway, there's theories about the chronology of the episode being all mixed up (what else is new?) and that Coop and Diane are somehow reuniting in episode 17 AFTER the events of 18, explaining why they're so happy (they were both trapped and haven't spoken in decades?), why they kiss so passionately and she's not at all put off by the face of her rapist (uh, the real Coop's kiss is right? Ok, that one is weird), and why Coop's face superimposes over the screen dreamsplaining, but it all doesn't quite follow, particularly their path back there or lack thereof.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Eluvei on September 09, 2017, 07:01:01 PM
Anyway, that's the best postmortem I've read, not that the competition is great ("it's about the show and ending and stuff!");

Yeah, very refreshing to read an interpretation that actually tries to solve the mystery, and I don't know how he managed to put that together so cohesively this quickly.

Quote
these are about the only other two I liked, but they focused more on what Lynch was saying rather than what was technically happening, echoing your conversation with Nightcrawler that I didn't feel quite comfortable wading into (the second article in particular touches on a lot of the same themes you debated with Nighty and obviously comes away with a more positive interpretation):

https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/9/3/16250822/twin-peaks-finale-recap-part-17-18-the-return

http://www.avclub.com/twin-peaks-gave-us-a-moving-meditation-on-death-1800661325

Thanks, pretty good articles, the AV Club one got me kinda :judo:.

I defended the "happy" scenes throughout the show as sincere, but as I said earlier, I had trouble believing this also applied to the goofy battle against BOB. It was too insane for me to take as anything other than at least some kind of dream, and Cooper's superimposed face showing up appeared to confirm it. But when I read the guy in the AV Club article saying "meta" isn't in Lynch's vocabulary, it reminded me of a thing from an old article I read earlier this year:

Quote from: https://www.theguardian.com/film/2007/feb/24/davidlynch
Lynch is often embraced as an ironist. He can appear to be laughing at the all-American innocents and celebrating the tawdry and amoral. But I'm beginning to realise that isn't the case. Lynch despises irony and cruelty, and loves those wide-eyed idealists who believe in love and purity. At a screening of the new movie at the National Film Theatre, a beautiful scene is played from Blue Velvet in which Laura Dern's Sandy describes her vision of love. "I had a dream. In the dream there was our world and the world was dark because there weren't any robins, and the robins represented love. And for the longest time there was just this darkness and all of a sudden thousands of robins were set free and they flew down and brought this blinding light of love. And it seemed that love was the only thing that would make any difference." The critic Mark Kermode, interviewing Lynch on stage, says what he loves about this scene is that it is so sincerely felt, despite the fact that so many in the audience laugh and regard it as ironic goofball.

Lynch nods, and brilliantly deconstructs the kind of audience who admire him for what he considers to be the wrong reasons. "A shared experience in the theatre is very different from seeing a film on your own, and in a theatre we all have this thing where we want to be very cool, and when you see something like this, kind of really embarrassing, the tendency is to laugh, because you are saying out loud that you realise this is embarrassing and not cool and you're hip to the scene, so this kind of thing happens. And then we also know, when we are alone with this person we're falling in love with, we do say goofy things, but we don't have a problem with it; it's so beautiful. And the other person is forgiving for these beautiful, loving, goofy things. There's a truth to the scene."
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: VengeanceQuest982 on September 09, 2017, 09:00:13 PM
Griffith , Walter :

...If you both recall Cooper warned Laura while in the Red Room in FWWM not to take the Owl/Infinity Ring as I believe he knew it's what binds her to an endless loop a loop he becomes the last piece of by trying to save her . So if we're talking about an endless cycle that explains why Cooper is so old in The Red Room in s1ep3 as he would be in his 6th cycle.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Walter on September 11, 2017, 03:42:30 PM
Two albums from the show are out today:

Score: https://rhino.lnk.to/TPSMP
Songs (mostly the Roadhouse performances): http://a.co/hmSSq6r
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Griffith on September 11, 2017, 07:49:00 PM
Yeah, very refreshing to read an interpretation that actually tries to solve the mystery, and I don't know how he managed to put that together so cohesively this quickly.

Thanks, pretty good articles, the AV Club one got me kinda :judo:.

I defended the "happy" scenes throughout the show as sincere, but as I said earlier, I had trouble believing this also applied to the goofy battle against BOB. It was too insane for me to take as anything other than at least some kind of dream, and Cooper's superimposed face showing up appeared to confirm it. But when I read the guy in the AV Club article saying "meta" isn't in Lynch's vocabulary, it reminded me of a thing from an old article I read earlier this year:

Quote from: https://www.theguardian.com/film/2007/feb/24/davidlynch

Yeah, based on the unorthidox yet authentic feelings, or at least unorthidox shades or gradients of authentic feeling, Lynch taps into I can totally buy that everything he's presenting, as far as everyone on screen is feeling, good and bad, is presented in good faith. Basically, he's laughing/crying with the characters and with us, not at them/us. He's made several statements to that effect including the opening of The Return where everyone assumed he was outright mocking appointment/prestige TV with The Experiment, which is still a fantastic interpretation BTW, but he claims it was another happy accident and not a statement he was going out of his way to make.

Griffith , Walter :

...If you both recall Cooper warned Laura while in the Red Room in FWWM not to take the Owl/Infinity Ring as I believe he knew it's what binds her to an endless loop a loop he becomes the last piece of by trying to save her . So if we're talking about an endless cycle that explains why Cooper is so old in The Red Room in s1ep3 as he would be in his 6th cycle.

I don't get that, maybe because I'm stuck in my pre-S3 interpretations, not that I held them long, or not thinking about it enough, but my understanding was the ring prevented her from being possessed by BOB so he killed her (and seems to bind, at least most, people to the Lodge upon death). Is that the cycle you're talking about, because if we're talking the "Möbius-strip" interpretation, on it's face wasn't that actually more a consequence caused by Cooper's intervention? Feel free to explain why I'm just not getting it, because any more explanation is welcome.

Two albums from the show are out today:

Score: https://rhino.lnk.to/TPSMP
Songs (mostly the Roadhouse performances): http://a.co/hmSSq6r

I've been listening to a lot of the Season 1, 2, and FWWM (THE BLACK DOG RUNS AT NIGHT) soundtracks lately, particularly for inspiration while working on The Faces of Cooper photoshop (http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=12.msg249356#msg249356), first straight through a few times and then on shuffle. I was surprised and disappointed these weren't already available but now look forward to adding them to the playlist!

Update: Oh shit, it's got ZZ Top on it! :isidro:

(https://media.tenor.com/images/0dd30fd668febb81aaf9c9bc1583f6db/tenor.gif)

By my calculations he's cranking the volume past 11 to at least 16, if not 17! :ganishka:
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: VengeanceQuest982 on September 12, 2017, 12:04:04 PM
Griffith

"Snake Eyes" by Trouble is The Evolution of Angelo Badalamenti's "The Pink Room" that the series deserves. Also even though it wasn't used in the series Roy Orbison's "In Dreams" will forever be about Dale Cooper and Laura Palmer.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: NightCrawler on September 12, 2017, 02:24:53 PM
Score: https://rhino.lnk.to/TPSMP

They are releasing a soundtrack?  :ganishka:
90% of the music appeared in other formats years ago or in other Lynch's projects.
As a composer i found it sad that they didn't hire someone to score the show, and it was distracting to recognize most of the rehashed music from other movies/albums.

Here's 10h of TP music previously released - https://youtu.be/DB6gkUmzZXA
A DL album that has a bunch of atmospheric stuff featured in S3 - https://youtu.be/uUdP-xQyFmc
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: VengeanceQuest982 on September 12, 2017, 03:15:47 PM
NightCrawler

...I can see the argument as Angelo Badalamenti has a limited amount of new musical pieces compared to Season(s) 1 & 2 as well as Fire Walk With Me scores. With the Return Lynch used artists and bands to perform songs that were tethered to individual characters , and the overall theme of the season.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Griffith on September 13, 2017, 06:04:06 AM
They are releasing a soundtrack?  :ganishka:
90% of the music appeared in other formats years ago or in other Lynch's projects.
As a composer i found it sad that they didn't hire someone to score the show, and it was distracting to recognize most of the rehashed music from other movies/albums.

Well, that's sad to hear, fortunately my familiarity with his work overall is limited enough that any recycled music, other than from Twin Peaks, didn't affect me, but I also assumed the minimalist score was otherwise intentional (or maybe he was just that into his own sound design). I honestly think I prefer the approach here than the original series' ubiquitous use of Laura Palmer's theme, Audrey's Dance and Freshly Squeezed (or variations such as Dance of the Dream Man) whether they were particularly warranted or elevating to a scene or not. Although that did work for the tone of the original Twin Peaks, I don't know that more Badalamenti or even a more traditional score would have worked better. You can disagree with the approach, choices or ultimately the results, but I don't think one can say music wasn't considered central to The Return either. It was a pretty prominent and notable fixture, even when it wasn't (much more than hums or tones, that is).

Update: New, original video uploaded.

https://youtu.be/oiGmUtZEblk

I uploaded a new explanation of how to interpret the chronology and events of those last couple of episodes...
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: NightCrawler on September 13, 2017, 02:02:48 PM
Update: New, original video uploaded.

https://youtu.be/oiGmUtZEblk

I uploaded a new explanation of how to interpret the chronology and events of those last couple of episodes...

 :ubik:
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Walter on September 14, 2017, 11:05:08 AM
Quote
Whether there will be a 4th season of Twin Peaks is too early to say, he told the crowd, adding that if the series would continue, fans would have to be extremely patient. Again. “It took me four and a half years to write and film this season.”

http://welcometotwinpeaks.com/news/twin-peaks-season-4-years/
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: SuperVegetto on September 14, 2017, 08:05:45 PM
He should just make a 2 hour long movie without pointless scenes and it would be both high quality and produced relatively fast.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Hitoshura on September 14, 2017, 10:29:02 PM
The Third Season will be out on DVD and Blu-ray on December 5, 2017

(https://i.imgur.com/hPPAw7e.jpg)

source: https://twitter.com/DAVID_LYNCH/status/908382492280840192
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Griffith on September 15, 2017, 06:56:32 AM
:ubik:

Ahhhh, the sweet validation I so desperately crave. A point of Karma to you, sir!

http://welcometotwinpeaks.com/news/twin-peaks-season-4-years/

Hmmm, something to focus his creative energy into in his twilight years. Probably a good thing if he can come up with an idea worthwhile enough to step on the meaning of this one, at least the ending, a bit.

He should just make a 2 hour long movie without pointless scenes and it would be both high quality and produced relatively fast.

Hey now! And have you seen Fire Walk With Me? Is that really what he did? Actually, I like The Missing Pieces too so I can't say anything. =)

The Third Season will be out on DVD and Blu-ray on December 5, 2017

https://i.imgur.com/hPPAw7e.jpg

...

Because these wonderful design ideas were already taken:

(http://www.skullknight.net/griffith/TP3s.jpg)     (http://www.skullknight.net/griffith/TP3b.jpg)


They should have got in touch with @crisvector (https://twitter.com/crisvector) because, again, he has all the promotional artwork they'll ever need:

http://welcometotwinpeaks.com/inspiration/twin-peaks-posters-18-parts-crisvector/

I mean, Jesus Christ:

(https://welcometotwinpeaks.com/wp-content/uploads/crisvector-twin-peaks-part-18.jpg)
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: NightCrawler on September 15, 2017, 03:11:25 PM
He should just make a 2 hour long movie without pointless scenes and it would be both high quality and produced relatively fast.

Mulholland Drive was supposed to be a show. He only filmed the pilot and after tv execs rejected it, he filmed another half and made it into a feature, in what is considered by critics as the best movie of the century - https://goo.gl/TJo1Wp - I don't know if i agree, but it's certainly his best movie. Sometimes creativity needs obstructions.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Griffith on September 15, 2017, 04:28:11 PM
He should just make a 2 hour long movie without pointless scenes and it would be both high quality and produced relatively fast.
Mulholland Drive was supposed to be a show. He only filmed the pilot and after tv execs rejected it, he filmed another half and made it into a feature, in what is considered by critics as the best movie of the century - https://goo.gl/TJo1Wp - I don't know if i agree, but it's certainly his best movie.

While I certainly had my complaints, and aren't as bullish on it all as Eluvei, I don't know that the more extraneous stuff was "pointless" or worthless, like filler. Maybe useless to the overarching plot, but not to the mood, tone, themes and viewing experience as a whole (sometimes the point was them and the feeling they elicited existing in and of themselves, and sometimes I learned more about certain characters and sympathized with them, like Shelly and Bobby, through others, like their daughter and her troubles. Anyway, I would have wanted some of the content about two thirds of the way through to be more balanced with the plot (though I'm not even sure that wasn't intentionally referencing some ghosts of Twin Peaks past), but I don't know that I would have excised anything entirely. My usually strong belief in the principles of storytelling economy need not apply here.

Sometimes creativity needs obstructions.

(http://www.valentinatanni.com/blog/uploaded_images/lucas-780480.jpg)
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Eluvei on September 15, 2017, 08:11:00 PM
While I certainly had my complaints, and aren't as bullish on it all as Eluvei, I don't know that the more extraneous stuff was "pointless" or worthless, like filler. Maybe useless to the overarching plot, but not to the mood, tone, themes and viewing experience as a whole (sometimes the point was them and the feeling they elicited existing in and of themselves, and sometimes I learned more about certain characters and sympathized with them, like Shelly and Bobby, through others, like their daughter and her troubles. Anyway, I would have wanted some of the content about two thirds of the way through to be more balanced with the plot (though I'm not even sure that wasn't intentionally referencing some ghosts of Twin Peaks past), but I don't know that I would have excised anything entirely. My usually strong belief in the principles of storytelling economy need not apply here.

Well said. I have no doubt that on rewatches the episodes that contained more "useless" things are gonna go down easier for those that painted them red on their personal viewing guides. Without the anxiety of wanting to know where this is all going, people will finally be able to fully embrace Jacoby painting shovels, Steven mumbling in the woods, etc.

edit:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJzOMDvUIAA4YfX.jpg:small) :sad:
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Griffith on September 16, 2017, 03:20:09 AM
Without the anxiety of wanting to know where this is all going, people will finally be able to fully embrace Jacoby painting shovels, Steven mumbling in the woods, etc.

Well, I don't know if I'll embrace all those scenes (I never minded Jacoby though =), but true enough that the urge to see what happens next and for satisfaction can taint the moment and cause any digression, however interesting, to feel like a delay.

edit:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJzOMDvUIAA4YfX.jpg:small :sad:

Ah man, conversations about the series with my dad naturally gravitated toward his presence; old as hell, but still the same Harry Dean Stanton!

This was fast:
https://www.theringer.com/movies/2017/9/15/16318116/harry-dean-stanton-was-more-than-a-great-character-actor
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: SuperVegetto on September 16, 2017, 02:12:50 PM


Hey now! And have you seen Fire Walk With Me? Is that really what he did? Actually, I like The Missing Pieces too so I can't say anything. =)



I usually  find it hard to tell if you're being sarcastic or not but whatever that case may be, Fire Walk With Me was a splendid movie. If we were to get something like that again...
Also it was made during Lynch's "second period", which I prefer most. The mood, music, sounds etc... were best then. Twin Peaks season 3 and Inland Empire belong his third period which is also the Avant-garde one.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Eluvei on September 16, 2017, 08:58:22 PM
"Here is a place for glasses, remote controls, and pens. And here’s a circle with Kleenex coming out. Here’s a larger circle for a wine bottle. This is a door on special hinges that holds cigarettes and lighter. And over on this side is a large door, so this part right here is a place for Parmesan crackers and trail mix and wine glasses and different things. I’m going to have electricity wired into the table — I’m going to have a lamp — so I have a switch right here. And then down here is a drawer that has a place for a yellow pad. If I have an idea, I can take out the yellow pad and write it down with the pens. And it’s on these red wheels. So it’s a side table that holds all the things that I use."

(http://i.imgur.com/r5RD3vE.jpg)

http://ew.com/tv/2017/09/15/david-lynch-twin-peaks-finale/

(https://ewedit.files.wordpress.com/2017/09/table.png?w=3825)
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Walter on September 22, 2017, 06:18:17 PM
Kyle MacLachlan talks about Dougie's sex scene, and the floppy arms:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irRN40EYLag
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Griffith on September 24, 2017, 05:44:55 AM
https://ewedit.files.wordpress.com/2017/09/table.png?w=3825

This came out better than his previous "experiments:"

https://youtu.be/SyctJCC7s3k

 :ganishka: :magni:

And since it was a hot topic of conversation among us here's an interview with Lynch on the music & sound design of The Return including Bowie's voice and what his tea kettle form was supposed to be.

Update: God damn link didn't paste.

https://pitchfork.com/thepitch/david-lynch-interview-on-bowie-and-music-that-inspired-the-new-twin-peaks/
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: NightCrawler on October 13, 2017, 10:15:30 PM
https://youtu.be/-iHt1UQK4e4
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: SuperVegetto on October 16, 2017, 09:14:37 PM
https://youtu.be/-iHt1UQK4e4

I got a massive deja vu from this comment.


Is it future or is it past?
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Walter on October 17, 2017, 04:02:29 PM
https://youtu.be/-iHt1UQK4e4

Wow!  My face while watching. (https://i.imgur.com/p0v9X54.jpg) :ganishka: Alex should ditch his dayjob and become the key Twin Peaks theorycrafter.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: Griffith on October 17, 2017, 11:49:24 PM
I got a massive deja vu from this comment.


Is it future or is it past?
Wow!  My face while watching. (https://i.imgur.com/p0v9X54.jpg) :ganishka: Alex should ditch his dayjob and become the key Twin Peaks theorycrafter.

I actually found the whole thing (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7AP0EIPp-I), and while I couldn't get through more than a minute more than what appears in the Peaks video, he's actually talking about some conspiracy concerning the elites being vampire pedophiles with the aim of becoming one with the machines!(!?) :carcus: Eat your heart out, David Lynch!


Also, if you found The Return's ending to be a bit abrupt, here's a coda for you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdEINFmMn4M

Well... you can't argue with that! :isidro: :magni:
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: residentgrigo on November 04, 2017, 05:53:57 PM
Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier came out this week and it popery ties up Annie´s and to a certain degree Audrey´s story. A lot of the info within can be pieced together from S03 but this one is a sequel to it, unlike Mark Frost´s previous and much more labyrinthian The Secret History of Twin Peaks. I would be surprised if S03 (9/10) will be the very final word on the show but this is a good ending point.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: VengeanceQuest982 on November 05, 2017, 07:17:47 PM
...The overlapping realities shown in season 3 of Twin Peaks just brings up something from season 1 episode 3 with the multiple federal pins on Coopers coat in The Red Room outlining that his consciousness has spanned several dream worlds and is not simply old man Cooper but an older Cooper spirit.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Returns
Post by: IncantatioN on November 07, 2017, 06:26:54 PM
I recently began my re-watch of season's 1 and 2 before diving into the new season and I'm on episode 3 of season 1. Can't help but hear the themes ring in my head while I'm at work like the opening of Laura's theme or Freshly Squeezed.