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Berserk => Speculation Nation => Topic started by: PraiseTheEclipseBro on September 25, 2017, 07:59:01 PM

Title: So i have this theory
Post by: PraiseTheEclipseBro on September 25, 2017, 07:59:01 PM
Does anyone think it is plausible that Casca will use the Beherit?  But in a turn of event she sacrifices herself for guts.
Title: Re: So i have this theory
Post by: Walter on September 25, 2017, 08:19:10 PM
But in a turn of event she sacrifices herself for guts.

Would they then have two brands? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89mVQhJ_rrk
Title: Re: So i have this theory
Post by: Sareth on September 25, 2017, 09:51:14 PM
Pretty sure the God Hand would just laugh if she tried.
Title: Re: So i have this theory
Post by: shinpeiro on October 19, 2017, 08:42:52 PM
Hello everyone,
New to the forums. Been following Berserk since 1999-2000 when I was living in Japan and to the core, a HUGE Hokuto no Ken/Fist of the North Star fan. I own the Dreamcast/PS2 and PS4 games just because I want to support Miura's work. Been reading some info on Skullknight.net off and on for 10 years, but first time I actually registered and I am enjoying the podcasts.

I have a very similar theory with Casca using the Beherit, but a different sacrifice. Although not to be a tease and not explain my theory, but I'm of the mind to let the author do the storytelling and let the fans appreciate his work/art. I'll explain when the series comes to an end. I don't want to jinx anything  :-X  :zodd:
Title: Re: So i have this theory
Post by: Aazealh on October 22, 2017, 10:56:26 AM
I have a very similar theory with Casca using the Beherit, but a different sacrifice. Although not to be a tease and not explain my theory, but I'm of the mind to let the author do the storytelling and let the fans appreciate his work/art. I'll explain when the series comes to an end. I don't want to jinx anything  :-X  :zodd:

:schierke:

No one will remember this post ever existed by the time the series come to an end. Sounds like your theory, if it exists, simply can't withstand public scrutiny.
Title: Re: So i have this theory
Post by: DANGERDOOOOM on October 23, 2017, 02:40:45 AM
Does anyone think it is plausible that Casca will use the Beherit?

Doubt it.
Title: Re: So i have this theory
Post by: shinpeiro on October 25, 2017, 12:14:50 AM
:schierke:

No one will remember this post ever existed by the time the series come to an end. Sounds like your theory, if it exists, simply can't withstand public scrutiny.

It's ok, just commenting on the original thread topic. It doesn't need to be remembered. Lol!
Just glad to be part of the group.
Title: Re: So i have this theory
Post by: Lithrael on October 25, 2017, 02:26:24 PM
The trouble with all the edgiest sacrifice ideas in Berserk is that the closest relationships are between people where one or both have already been sacrificed and so are apparently ineligible.  And the runner-up relationships aren't close enough to have the narrative punch to make it interesting storytelling.  I mean, picture Isidro doing it.  My reaction would be 'huh' rather than 'shock!!'  and that's not what Miura wants at all.  We'd have to build up to something with Rickert or even Sonia or Mule to get a sacrifice worth writing. 

My current favorite prospect for sleeper mystery is what is really wrong with Azan.  But since nothing in Elfhelm is freaked out about him it's not likely to be anything that crazy. 
Title: Re: So i have this theory
Post by: Walter on October 25, 2017, 05:29:26 PM
The trouble with all the edgiest sacrifice ideas in Berserk is that the closest relationships are between people where one or both have already been sacrificed and so are apparently ineligible.

Indeed, for a variety of reasons I don't expect the beherit to be used in a traditional manner. It's been around for too long to end up creating "yet another" apostle for Guts to kill. I think it will be used in an alternate way, possibly involving Puck.

Quote
And the runner-up relationships aren't close enough to have the narrative punch to make it interesting storytelling.  I mean, picture Isidro doing it.  My reaction would be 'huh' rather than 'shock!!'  and that's not what Miura wants at all.  We'd have to build up to something with Rickert or even Sonia or Mule to get a sacrifice worth writing. 

Well I'd add Serpico to that list, with a caveat. His future is certainly up in the air right now. But I'm not sure him sacrificing Farnese (and Guts immediately destroying him) would make much sense, or lead to a more interesting story scenario.

Quote
My current favorite prospect for sleeper mystery is what is really wrong with Azan.  But since nothing in Elfhelm is freaked out about him it's not likely to be anything that crazy.

If anything were wrong with him in that regard, it'd have to have been something that could slip past Schierke all this time as well. I think we pretty much know Azan's situation, it just hasn't been explicitly laid out in the story yet.
Title: Re: So i have this theory
Post by: Griffith on October 25, 2017, 09:44:50 PM
I think all the, relatively, recent emphasis on it's properties as a "key" is a not so subtle indication where things are going, but how we're going to get there and in what state is the interesting part (we can't even be sure how it works anymore in a post-Fantasia world). But like Aaz says, nobody is going to remember our half-baked theories by the time it comes to fruition, so we might as well go nuts: Casca uses it to separate Griffith and the child... somehow? :ganishka: :???:

Or, the more chalk answer, Guts uses it to fast access/confront/kill God Hand(s).

"Who do you wish to sacrifice, struggler? ..." :void:

 :guts: "... YOU, MOTHERFUCKER!" *CLANG* :badbone: <(Surprise! And that's my name for him!)
Title: Re: So i have this theory
Post by: Menosgade on October 26, 2017, 10:00:40 AM
But like Aaz says, nobody is going to remember our half-baked theories by the time it comes to fruition, so we might as well go nuts: Casca uses it to separate Griffith and the child... somehow? :ganishka: :???:

That just gave me an insight! I could almost forgive you now, Griffith.  :beast:

Morda.

She has a cunning, deceitful look. We've seen that Morda doesn't give much of a f*ck to following restrictions, and if she is not aware of what the Beherit really is and how it works (what seems plausible even for young mages), it might lead to a situation where she has this choice. Maybe it'd happen for a just cause like the one you made up, but possibly with catastrophic results...

I can't see anyone of the group using the Beherit. At least not in the traditional way of ambition -> sacrifice for power -> evil monster.  It definitively would happen in a very specific situation, making a creative use out of it.

How powerful would a sorceress apostle be? What would she sacrifice? How would this affect the island?

If Femto (therefore, IoE) wants to get rid of the mages, what better way to do this than tearing them from inside? I'm pretty sure they can hold their own in a direct fight, if it ever happened.

*inserts huge cliffhanger with a background eclipse*
Title: Re: So i have this theory
Post by: buttonmasher on October 26, 2017, 10:24:36 AM
I like the idea that Puck is slowly transforming the beherit into something new or some sort of anti-Beherit.  If we're getting crazy here then maybe one day the Beherit starts returning Puck's affection or even starts "talking" to him and giving him inside info.  Maybe Puck has influenced the Beherit enough for it to become the missing component for SK's weaponized collection to work effectively. 
Title: Re: So i have this theory
Post by: Masacrator SR on December 24, 2017, 07:47:20 AM
definitely that wont happen. doesnt make any sense for the plot casca being an apostle.
one of many mysteries of berserk.....what will happen with that Beherit.....

1.- A Dwarven blacksmith working on the DS (repairing it) , Dannan comes in and uses the Beherit like a scramble egg over the DS giving it a new property / effect / function , pucks crying and missing his becchi  (So Shounen...oh well...) :puck:

2.- is used to reach closer to the abyss and set the final battle vs Femto, the remaining GH member. Will be cool fighting him in the very abyss with the IoE as background, but the vortex will suck guts right away , lol, unless......reaching there "unbranded" somehow....

Well...my points doesnt make much sense either , so are acording with the thread at least, forgive me Aaz and Walter  =(
Title: Re: So i have this theory
Post by: Voldo on March 03, 2018, 12:13:40 AM
I'm pretty sure branded people can't use Beherits, so we won't see Casca or Guts using it. Out of everyone in Guts' party I would say Serpico or Farnese would be the most likely to use it. Serpico will do anything to protect Farnese and he could end up using desperate measures somehow.

Also, Schierke warned Farnese about not getting cut by those thorns, and then she does get cut by them. That could have an affect on her mind somehow in the long run? Like some demon disease affecting her?

I also think it could be used by someone outside the party, like Sonia.
Title: Re: So i have this theory
Post by: Walter on March 05, 2018, 04:46:52 PM
I'm pretty sure branded people can't use Beherits,

This has come up a few times, so here's my previous response:

I don't think the series has ruled out a sacrifice using a Beherit. It's just unlikely to happen in the story, and wouldn't make a terrible amount of sense. For years I thought it strictly wasn't possible, because of Conrad's words in Vol 3. But then I noticed something about when God Hand talk are talking about Beherits and "being ordained by causality."

I think what Conrad said had less to do with Guts being a sacrifice, and more to do with his relationship with the Beherit. Conrad said Guts wasn't "ordained" to be among them as an apostle during the Count's ceremony. But shortly afterwards, Guts ends up with a Beherit, which he's carried around ever since. Now, let's recall Ubik's words to Griffith in Volume 12: "From the moment you took possession of that crimson Beherit, you had the qualities to become a demon ... No, perhaps I should say that because you had those qualities, it fell into your hands."

Though these two dialogues are separated by almost 10 volumes worth of material, the thrust of this argument is reinforced by the repeated urgings from Slan (Vol 3, 26) and the specters (Vol 16), for Guts to use it. That could all be merely dramatic tension or a true threat. But if he ever took the offer, it would be a dead-end in terms of the story.


Let's apply that potential outcome to the two most obvious scenarios:

Guts takes the deal, however unlikely that sounds. This effectively ends the series. Guts is no longer a human, and the God Hand have influence over him, just like what happened when Ganishka faced Griffith in Vritannis. Thus, the conflict at the heart of the series would come to a swift and unsatisfying end.

Casca takes the deal. There'd be no saving her from that. Whether he can bring himself to kill her or not, Guts would be demoralized, and his consistent savior to relinquish the Beast's hold on him would be gone.

So... yeah, it's not something I like spending too much time debating. I'm a pragmatic guy, and hypotheticals aren't really my thing. Instead, as we've said here for years, I can't help but think that Miura has bigger plans for it than merely another apostle ceremony.
Title: Re: So i have this theory
Post by: Faded on April 20, 2018, 05:31:06 PM
My half-baked (or fully baked, haha) theory is that they somehow figure out a way to imbue Guts's Beherit into the Dragon Slayer, allowing Guts to physically wound the God Hand. It wouldn't shock anyone but it would definitely fit better into the story than some of these various dark sacrifice theories.

Think about how cool a Femto-Guts battle would be if Guts could cleave open portals and attack Femto from all these various angles, with Miura's art only getting better and better that kind of epic fight would be a spectacle to behold.
 
Biggest hole I can poke in my own theory is that having 2 Beherit swords in the same story would be seen by some as redundant, why not just have Skull Knights Beherit sword end up in Guts hands somehow? Still think it would be cool to see Guts have access to teleportation.




Title: Re: So i have this theory
Post by: Aazealh on April 20, 2018, 07:32:31 PM
My half-baked (or fully baked, haha) theory is that they somehow figure out a way to imbue Guts's Beherit into the Dragon Slayer, allowing Guts to physically wound the God Hand. It wouldn't shock anyone but it would definitely fit better into the story than some of these various dark sacrifice theories.

Aside from Femto, who has been incarnated, the members of the God Hand did not possess physical bodies the last time we saw them. And even if they did, what Guts would need is to be able to harm them on a spiritual level. Which he already can, to a small extent.

Think about how cool a Femto-Guts battle would be if Guts could cleave open portals and attack Femto from all these various angles

Yeah, because Skull Knight's beherit sword technique worked really well against Femto the last time he tried it. :ganishka:

Biggest hole I can poke in my own theory is that having 2 Beherit swords in the same story would be seen by some as redundant

May I also suggest the fact the Skull Knight has swallowed a non-negligeable number of beherits and melted them in his armor, then has to plunge his sword into it to create that technique. You are suggesting that a single beherit be used to replicate that technique on the Dragon Slayer, a vastly larger sword... By a human who couldn't possibly use the same method.

why not just have Skull Knights Beherit sword end up in Guts hands somehow? Still think it would be cool to see Guts have access to teleportation.

Because this technique involves the Skull Knight himself, as I stated above. Also, Guts being able to teleport during fights isn't really how I'd like his character to develop.
Title: Re: So i have this theory
Post by: Faded on April 20, 2018, 07:41:30 PM
Solid points raised, Aaz. I figured it wouldn't really fly which is why I called it half (or fully) baked.

Everybody needs to have an idea shot down eventually and I'm glad I could get my first out of the way :-)

Yeah, because Skull Knight's beherit sword technique worked really well against Femto the last time he tried it. :ganishka:

I already concede my theory is bogus in general, but this point by you could technically be argued. Femto somehow knew that Skull Knight was going to show up (Sonia is feeding Femto prophecies perhaps?) If somehow Guts was able to wield the Beherit sword that *might* surprise Femto enough that he wouldn't be able to grasp the astral rip caused by Guts swinging it. Maybe.

It still doesn't matter though because like you say there is no evidence Guts will ever be able to use the full power of the Beherit sword. That could change but seems highly unlikely.
Title: Re: So i have this theory
Post by: MrFlibble on April 20, 2018, 09:12:03 PM
I think the only plausible candidate for using the Beherit is Serpico. Casca can't use the Beherit when Guts has already been sacrificed, and Griffith is a God Hand member. I doubt the God Hand would trade one of their own for a commom type of demon.
Title: Re: So i have this theory
Post by: Aazealh on April 21, 2018, 07:59:43 AM
I already concede my theory is bogus in general, but this point by you could technically be argued. Femto somehow knew that Skull Knight was going to show up (Sonia is feeding Femto prophecies perhaps?) If somehow Guts was able to wield the Beherit sword that *might* surprise Femto enough that he wouldn't be able to grasp the astral rip caused by Guts swinging it. Maybe.

Beherits are tied to the Idea of Evil. That's where they come from and that's who their master is. There is no guarantee they can effectively be used against their creator or its agents. It is certainly worth trying, as the Skull Knight did, but so far it hasn't borne results.

I think the only plausible candidate for using the Beherit is Serpico. Casca can't use the Beherit when Guts has already been sacrificed, and Griffith is a God Hand member. I doubt the God Hand would trade one of their own for a commom type of demon.

I really don't think anyone in Guts' group will be using that beherit.
Title: Re: So i have this theory
Post by: Faded on April 23, 2018, 05:06:02 PM

I really don't think anyone in Guts' group will be using that beherit.

It's all fun and games until Sonia joins Guts group.  :ubik:   *adjusts tinfoil hat*

Title: Re: So i have this theory
Post by: Archer1215 on April 23, 2018, 11:55:06 PM
It's all fun and games until Sonia joins Guts group.  :ubik:   *adjusts tinfoil hat*

I know you’re joking, but I don’t think Sonia will ever leave Griffith’s side.
Title: Re: So i have this theory
Post by: Faded on April 24, 2018, 03:14:44 AM
I know you’re joking, but I don’t think Sonia will ever leave Griffith’s side.


If you had just discovered Berserk last week and you had only read up until volume 5 or 6, would you say the same about Casca?

I think Sonia is an incredibly interesting character and a total wild card. Its quite the stretch to say she will ever "join" Guts group (which is why I added the tinfoil hat gimmick to my sarcastic comment) but to say she will be unrelentingly loyal to Griffith forever would be assuming too much. At least in my humble opinion. There's more to her story than being part of Griffiths harem, and that I'm certain of.

 Jealousy is a fickle thing.  :griffnotevil:
Title: Re: So i have this theory
Post by: Archer1215 on April 24, 2018, 05:48:24 AM

If you had just discovered Berserk last week and you had only read up until volume 5 or 6, would you say the same about Casca?

I think Sonia is an incredibly interesting character and a total wild card. Its quite the stretch to say she will ever "join" Guts group (which is why I added the tinfoil hat gimmick to my sarcastic comment) but to say she will be unrelentingly loyal to Griffith forever would be assuming too much. At least in my humble opinion. There's more to her story than being part of Griffiths harem, and that I'm certain of.

 Jealousy is a fickle thing.  :griffnotevil:

I don't think she necessarily has to become disillusioned with Griffith in order for her story to become more "interesting" (I agree that Sonia can be a bit of an underappreciated character at times). Her relationship with Schierke will be something interesting to explore in the future. They became friends in Vrittanis and connected due to their shared abnormality, and Sonia confirms that they are destined to meet again in the future. How will their relationship evolve when they find themselves on opposite sides of the battlefield, supporting radically opposing ideals?

Sonia's own relationship with Griffith is also something I would like to have explored a bit more in the future. During Sonia's story that she tells to Schierke in Episode 246, she describes herself as a kite who was the only one who "could fly in the same sky and feel the same wind as the Falcon." Even Griffith himself seems to show a bit of fondness towards her and values her abilities. Their special relationship is not dissimilar to Guts' own relationship with Schierke. I wouldn't be surprised if she knew more about Griffith's true agenda than anyone else in Falconia (even the Apostles).

I don't want to make any broad assumptions, but I think it would be much more interesting if there were a lot of good characters who fought for Griffith's side until the bitter end. Not just Sonia, but Mule, Owen, Foss, and Charlotte, as well as the countless unnamed soldiers and civilians residing behind Falconia's walls. I feel it would be more poetic this way, as well as lead to a more complicated situation when Guts and his allies inevitably turn up at Falconia's walls to oppose Griffith.
Title: Re: So i have this theory
Post by: Faded on April 24, 2018, 03:18:01 PM
Archer, how interesting would it be if Sonia did have a change of heart?

She helped encourage the humans to fight with the apostles, sure. And she kind of is weirdly comfortable being in the presence of demons. But during those moments she's thinking (I'm assuming a bit here) that this whole war Griffith is waging is for the good of humanity.  :femto:

I don't think we exactly know what the God Hands end game is though we can assume from what we know it doesn't involve the human race living happily ever and all the demons finding day jobs.  :ganishka:

We're entering "throwing stuff against a wall" territory but how about this:

What if one day Sonia has a vision of what the God hand (or specifically Femto's) end game is? What if she sees her poor little owl buddy Schierke impaled on a pike, mountains of corpses surrounding her in this vision? Do you think her school girl infatuation with Griffith will hold sway over someone she can actually relate too like Schierke?

How interesting would it be if Sonia became Guts ace in the hole? What better advantage to have against a being with god-like powers than knowing his next move? You could go all sorts of directions with that kind of theme.

Now I don't think it will go down exactly as I described because that seems a little too simple for me, but there will definitely be some shenanigans involving Sonia & Guts group and I am betting it will work out to the latters advantage.
Title: Re: So i have this theory
Post by: Aazealh on April 24, 2018, 08:23:48 PM
It's all fun and games until Sonia joins Guts group.  :ubik:   *adjusts tinfoil hat*

I don't see your point. You believe Sonia will join Guts' group, then use the beherit to become an apostle? That sounds preposterous.
Title: Re: So i have this theory
Post by: Archer1215 on April 25, 2018, 12:19:12 AM
I don't think we exactly know what the God Hands end game is though we can assume from what we know it doesn't involve the human race living happily ever and all the demons finding day jobs.  :ganishka:

Well, we do know that the whatever their plan is, we do know that the prophesied Age of Darkness isn't something that will last forever.

"I suppose that's what people will call it afterwards. The Age of Darkness." -- Void Slan, Episode 88

This line implies that not only will the Age of Darkness come and go, but that humans will will still be around by the time it ends. I think that's where we are now with the birth of Fantasia.

I have my own ideas for what the Griffith and the other God Hand's agenda is all about, as well as the inevitable conflict between Guts and Falconia (although admittedly none of this is very original):

Quote
The idea behind the creation of Falconia and Fantasia is that they are a fulfillment of mankind’s collective desire. Griffith is called “the desired one” when he is incarnated into the Physical World. He is preying off of the evils created by himself and the other God Hand in order to save people’s lives, offer them salvation, and unite them under his wing so he can steer the course of humanity's destiny. He is creating a new world where the established order is overthrown and replaced with that of the God Hand.

He is saving people, improving their standard of living, and fostering in them a dependence on his power. A power which they don’t understand at all, yet still choose to put all of their hope and faith in. They have everything they need right in front of them to be skeptical of Griffith and his actions. They know he has supernatural powers, that he commands an army of evil demons (he literally tells them to “unleash evil” during the final battle with Ganishka), that everything has worked out flawlessly for him in his war against Ganishka, and that a mysterious Utopian capital city conveniently appeared out of nowhere just he defeated Ganishka and the world became infested with evil monsters. They choose to either ignore all of this or neglect any skepticism they might have because Griffith gives them safety, prosperity, and hope that they would never find on their own. They are blind sheep because they choose to ignore what’s right in front of them and willingly serve evil because it’s convenient for them.

And this is what will make the situation with Guts opposing Griffith more complicated. Because while Femto himself and his actions are evil, there are going to be a lot of people who benefit from those actions in the long run. Griffith will have a lot of good people fighting for his cause to the bitter end, refusing to acknowledge that they are serving evil in doing so. And Guts will be the "villain" for Falconia because he is coming to destroy this safety and prosperity.

I like Sonia as a character, just as I like Mule and Charlotte. But I just don't think this is the type of story where these people wake up, face reality, and relinquish the evil in their hearts. Particularly Sonia, who appears to have a deeper connection with Griffith than anyone else in his ranks. And honestly, I just don't think that would be a very interesting turn of events. The contrary just makes for a far more engaging conflict in my opinion.
Title: Re: So i have this theory
Post by: Walter on April 25, 2018, 12:46:57 AM
Well, we do know that the whatever their plan is, we do know that the prophesied Age of Darkness isn't something that will last forever.

"I suppose that's what people will call it afterwards. The Age of Darkness." -- Void, Episode 88

That shouldn't be attributed to Void.

Quote
This line implies that not only will the Age of Darkness come and go, but that humans will will still be around by the time it ends. I think that's where we are now with the birth of Fantasia.

That's not actually what the line implies. You're extrapolating too much from how Dark Horse chose to localize the line. Here's what it implies: Dark times are ahead.

Quote
I like Sonia as a character, just as I like Mule and Charlotte. But I just don't think this is the type of story where these people wake up, face reality, and relinquish the evil in their hearts. Particularly Sonia, who appears to have a deeper connection with Griffith than anyone else in his ranks. And honestly, I just don't think that would be a very interesting turn of events. The contrary just makes for a far more engaging conflict in my opinion.

I really don't understand your take here. I guess sure, she could remain on the same linear path that she's been on since her introduction through the duration of the series. But that sounds terribly boring given all the other avenues there are to explore.

Yes, Sonia is infatuated with Griffith, and she has a unique place near the center of the union between humans and apostles. But both of those contexts provides a pathway for rebellion, because of everyone in Griffith's camp, she's in the greatest position to learn just enough to push her over the edge of accepting the facade that Griffith has cast over humanity. Add to that, the connection she made with Schierke, and her understanding that witches aren't all evil beings worthy of being purged, and the continued urgings from Miura that she and Mule are characters readers can sympathize with, none of these things to me add up to someone who will ultimately remain a dyed-in-the-wool supporter of Griffith.
Title: Re: So i have this theory
Post by: Archer1215 on April 25, 2018, 01:18:09 AM
That shouldn't be attributed to Void.

Oops. It should be Slan. My mistake.

That's not actually what the line implies. You're extrapolating too much from how Dark Horse chose to localize the line. Here's what it implies: Dark times are ahead.

What exactly does the original Japanese text say? I thought about that myself, but I can only really use Dark Horse as a reference.

I really don't understand your take here. I guess sure, she could remain on the same linear path that she's been on since her introduction through the duration of the series. But that sounds terribly boring given all the other avenues there are to explore.

Yes, Sonia is infatuated with Griffith, and she has a unique place near the center of the union between humans and apostles. But both of those contexts provides a pathway for rebellion, because of everyone in Griffith's camp, she's in the greatest position to learn just enough to push her over the edge of accepting the facade that Griffith has cast over humanity. Add to that, the connection she made with Schierke, and her understanding that witches aren't all evil beings worthy of being purged, and the continued urgings from Miura that she and Mule are characters readers can sympathize with, none of these things to me add up to someone who will ultimately remain a dyed-in-the-wool supporter of Griffith.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not a fan of static characters, and I definitely think there are a lot interesting avenues to explore with Sonia's character. Especially as you said with her friendship with Schierke and the potential of her being distraught if (when) Griffith ever makes a move to kill more magic users. I think there is a lot of potential for conflict with Sonia, as well as with Mule, Charlotte, and Laban.

My main issue is with the idea that these characters have to turn heel on Griffith in the end in order to be complex or sympathetic characters (I know you aren't saying that, but I get the impression this is what a lot of people feel). I think it would be a much more interesting way for these characters to develop if they have these conflicts and reservations about Griffith while still continuing to be devoted to his cause, because they still genuinely believe in it. It just makes for more dramatic and engaging storytelling IMO.
Title: Re: So i have this theory
Post by: Aazealh on April 25, 2018, 05:39:39 AM
What exactly does the original Japanese text say? I thought about that myself, but I can only really use Dark Horse as a reference.

People will call it the Age of Darkness. The idea that "it must end first for people to then call it that" is a step too far. If you asked Raban, he'd probably call it that right now.

I have my own ideas for what the Griffith and the other God Hand's agenda is all about, as well as the inevitable conflict between Guts and Falconia (although admittedly none of this is very original)

I mostly agree with your take (or rather, yours mostly agrees with mine from a decade ago :flora:), but I think you understate the fact people don't have a choice. They either live in Falconia or die outside. And the last time we saw someone try to leave, Rakshas was going after them.
Title: Re: So i have this theory
Post by: jackson_hurley on April 25, 2018, 12:34:02 PM

I mostly agree with your take (or rather, yours mostly agrees with mine from a decade ago :flora:), but I think you understate the fact people don't have a choice. They either live in Falconia or die outside. And the last time we saw someone try to leave, Rakshas was going after them.

Rickert is kinda a special case though since he knows stuff people don't about Griffith. What I Wonder though is : can a human leave Falconia on his own without being persued? Now I know they would probably not last long outside the protection of Falconia, which comes back to your point that they don't really have a choice. But would they be allowed to leave?
Title: Re: So i have this theory
Post by: Archer1215 on April 25, 2018, 12:56:56 PM
Rickert is kinda a special case though since he knows stuff people don't about Griffith. What I Wonder though is : can a human leave Falconia on his own without being persued? Now I know they would probably not last long outside the protection of Falconia, which comes back to your point that they don't really have a choice. But would they be allowed to leave?

I don’t see why they wouldn’t be allowed to leave. Why should Griffith care about the odd person or few people that want to leave the city? I think it’s just a case of people being free to go as they please but Falconia being the only truly safe place to be. And why would anyone want to leave Falconia in the first place? There is enough food for everyone, the standard of living is better than it was before the Blast, and all of the people seem to have a shared, unifying purpose.

Rickert was definitely a special case. Whether an attempt was made on his life because he assaulted and denied Griffith or because Rakshas decided to attack him of his own volition. I don’t think Griffith or Locus are ordering hits on anyone that voices their dissent (not that there would be that many).
Title: Re: So i have this theory
Post by: jackson_hurley on April 25, 2018, 01:09:39 PM
Well, as it was pointed already they don't really have a choice anyway. But if for an unkown reason, some people start to put the pičces together and figure out it would be wiser to leave, would they be stopped or not? That was more the question. And I ask that because that's kinda the plan, to get a shitload of people in the only "safe" city.
Title: Re: So i have this theory
Post by: Archer1215 on April 26, 2018, 04:46:26 PM
And I ask that because that's kinda the plan, to get a shitload of people in the only "safe" city.

I'm not convinced that is the plan if I'm being honest, although it is definitely an important step. I don't believe Femto merged the worlds together simply for the purpose of herding people together into the only safe city in the world and bringing the other God Hand to the Physical World. And from the latest episode, we know that his interests do still lie beyond Falconia for some reason. I wouldn't be surprised if he plans to retake Midland territory before ascending to the throne, and beyond that, who knows? Maybe he will extend his influence to other nations as well. After all, why settle for a city state when you can have a Millennium Empire? Falconia seems more like the launching pad for a greater plan than the actual endgame.

And like I said, I really do believe the Rickert situation was a special case, although I doubt anyone is in a hurry to leave the safety Falconia offers. If there was a faction trying to leave the city? Well, thinking on it a bit more, I don't think they would be allowed to leave, but it would probably be dressed up in a way that makes it seem like it is being done for their own safety. I doubt Griffith wants chaos behind his walls, and he would probably try to find a non-violent way to resolve the issue. Besides, that's a pretty big hypothetical. It really isn't the wisest option to leave the city right now, and I don't think there has been any indication that Griffith has any malicious intentions for his future subjects. I don't think that's the direction the story is heading in with regards to Falconia.
Title: Re: So i have this theory
Post by: jackson_hurley on April 26, 2018, 04:57:10 PM
If there was a faction trying to leave the city? Well, thinking on it a bit more, I don't think they would be allowed to leave, but it would probably be dressed up in a way that makes it seem like it is being done for their own safety.

Well there you go, you just answered in your words my question. It was more of a "what do you think" question.

Like you said and like it has been said multiple times on the board, I do not think either that it's the only plan they have of course. But the main part of their unknown plan is that for the moment. Get people in Falconia and have yourself a better control over humanity.

But hey it's still feasable to live outside of Falconia anyway and with the good knowledge (that say, Guts group and the magic users) people would be able to better live outside the walls and have at least a choice where they want to live. I don't know if I express myself clear enough but Aaz did touch what I'm trying to convey in another thread. Being told :" Sure you can leave whenever you want" knowing that you won't last long outside is still being some kind of "no choice anyway" when we know it's not true because there are ways to make it alive outside Falconia.

Remove the knowledge or prevent it from getting to the people they sure won't try to find another option.

but thx for sharing your opinion on the subject.

Ps: I'm pretty sure griffith has something not that nice in mind somehow. He is a demon after all and was explicitely shown that they are after all, evil.  :femto:
Title: Re: So i have this theory
Post by: Faded on April 26, 2018, 05:33:43 PM
I don't see your point. You believe Sonia will join Guts' group, then use the beherit to become an apostle? That sounds preposterous.

I'm terrible at sarcasm it seems.  :sad:
Title: Re: So i have this theory
Post by: Archer1215 on April 26, 2018, 06:47:15 PM
Ps: I'm pretty sure griffith has something not that nice in mind somehow. He is a demon after all and was explicitely shown that they are after all, evil.  :femto:

Of course. He has already done quite a few evil things, and he will more than likely do many more in the future. I just don't think his plans necessarily end with any dire consequences for the people of Falconia (aside from perhaps a trip to the Vortex for unwittingly serving evil, but we aren't sure how that works yet). For example, I don't think he is going to become a tyrant and rule oppressively, nor do I think his people are going to end up as Apostle chow. I believe things are going to be a lot more complicated than that, and that the minority of humans who end up surviving the dangers of Fantasia may even end up benefiting from his actions in the long run.

I just don't think that because the God Hand are "Evil with a capital E" that their plan necessarily has to end with everyone in Falconia dying and/or suffering. That doesn't sound very interesting to me, and if that was indeed their endgame, then Griffith would have no reason to continue playing the savior. To me it seems (like you said) that their aims are more to influence them for some purpose. Maybe creating a world where what's left of humanity prospers yet the forces of evil control everything sounds contradictory, but I think it could be an interesting avenue to explore. Especially when you factor in everything that will have been destroyed and sacrificed for them to get to that point.

What if humanity learns the truth about Griffith and that all of these evils that are tormenting them were the doing of his faction, yet still cling to him because they see him as their only hope? Him being a religious figure associated with the Holy See, what if they take these evils as being tests from God that he helped them overcome, or that they were chosen specifically by their God to receive these benefits? There are so many interesting possibilities to explore with Falconia and Griffith's kingship.
Title: Re: So i have this theory
Post by: jackson_hurley on April 26, 2018, 06:55:46 PM
Sure sure. I think we pretty have the same kind of thought about the subject. I was just curious about if they would be allowed to leave (lets say some hear about another safe haven) or not. As in, if they leave, Griffith will have less people Under control. Now don't get me wrong, I know there is a shit load of people in Falconia and it would need to be a semi big outgoing to make him react but I dunno. Maybe an apostle would take it in his own hand to decide that one cannot go.

Very interesting to talk about it though. It was fun!  :guts: