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Messages - Hensmon

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Because his sacrifice was incomplete. He still had his daughter.

Because his sacrifice was incomplete.

It's unprecedented, but the implication was that he would have been revitalized enough to defeat Guts.

No, The promise is made to the Count when he is asked to sacrifice his wife. The Godhand offer him a supernatural and supposedly suffering free life is return for his wife - to this, he accepts. He even asks of them this directly to which they reply directly.

Manga Mausoleum / Questions about the Count, Godhand and our humanity.
« on: March 18, 2016, 03:52:43 PM »
In Volume 3, chapter 5 we get to see the Godhand for the first time. Love the scenes and stories that follow but there are a few things I would like some clarity on.

1. The Godhand lied?

They begin to remind the count of the day he sacrificed his wife, turning him into demon-kind. Script as follows...

Count: "Whatever you are, save me from my suffering, If you do I will give you anything"
Godhand: "And we promised you that we would make you into a supernatural being who would never know sorrow or despair"

Yet here we are and the Count is quite clearly showing both sorrow and despair, not only in fearing to loose his own life but also towards his daughter - both in the dilemma of a second sacrifice and also in the rejection he faces from her. So his sacrifice initially was actually a farce, as what the Godhand promised did not come true. Did they just manipulate him in order to push him to sacrifice? He even seems to show despair when reminded of the situation...clearly no sorrow has been removed here.

2. You still have your humanity when turned into Demon-kind from the Behlit?

As said before, the count shows many human emotions as a demon. As a demon he chooses eternal suffering in Hell and NOT to sacrifice his daughter (demons can love?)... he couldn't even mange this when given the same choice in human form and this suffering he experienced was lot more manageable in comparison to Hell. So as a demon he shows more compassion and restraint than as a human... Strange and not very demon like behaviour.

3. What happens when you activate a Behlit when you are already a demon (like in the counts case)?

If the Count had sacrificed his daughter, what would have happened? Simply regenerate his health back to normal? Surely a sacrifice of this magnitude a second time qualifies for something more important than a quick revive? Would he have become a God-Hand member? Just interested about this really.

Any theories or insight into these questions would be greatly appreciated.

Shootin' the Breeze / Amazing manga you've read?
« on: March 18, 2016, 12:12:21 PM »
Other than phenomenal Berserk, are there any other manga you hold in very high regards and would recommend a read?

One of my favourites is Akira, what a masterpiece for me. Stunning artwork/world building... thought-provoking and ahead of its time in terms of story and scope. The characters are great, humorous, bad-ass, interesting - not quite as deep character dialogue as we got with Berserk if I am to make a comparison, but still thoroughly well done.

Anyone else? Seems to me that good and mature manga ceases to exist today.

Anime Asylum / Re: New Berserk Anime for 2016
« on: March 06, 2016, 01:24:56 PM »
Jesus, that trailer looks abysmal. For the love of god if the anime series looks anything like this then it may not even be worth watching. More (attempted) style over substance crap. How can any artist take this seriously?

In the 97 anime we had countless scenes where the budget was clearly lacking and therefore stills were used in place, mainly the battles.... here's the irony... the anime is still great and this ultimately didn't matter! If the content is good and well worked, you don't need flashy battle scenes and bones flying at you in 3 dimensions. All the beauty, realism and detail is sucked try with this amateur looking 3D. Sounds like the music will be generic too. Fantastic.

Character Cove / Re: POLL: Vote for Your 2 Favorite Characters
« on: September 09, 2015, 07:32:11 PM »
My two favorites are the power houses Guts and Griffth.

I love how complex both characters are...both opposites but at the same time share the ability to draw people to them. An charisma and presence that inspires, awes, amazes and changes people. Griffiths goal driven personality and eventually his rise, fall and  transformation is such an incredible part of this story and really adds to why I love his character so much.

Anyway it was close second between Judo, as he seems to be Guts closest friend during his time with Band of the Hawk (after Casca/Griffth) and he is always humble. He gives great advice and comfort to Guts all whilst keeping a level head. Miura also gave him some great dialogue at parts. Also redeeming quality is that he wants Guts to be with Casca despite his own feelings for her, Knowing she needs someone and something he can't give. RIP Judo ;)

Ah ok, I always thought that Guts arm was more than just a dangling cannon and that he had could operate fingers and grasp his sword. I guess I didn't pay enough attention in the manga to notice that he never used his left arm in this way.

His mind though I believe could have recovered. He was a broken man (understandably), but people can bounce back from these things right, especially someone like Griffith. Maybe he could have regained his mental stability through support and begun a new life with a new goal (just like in his dream). Just a thought!

Manga Mausoleum / Re: Griffith's state of mind before Eclipse
« on: September 08, 2015, 08:21:53 PM »
Yeah, but don't you think that ego seems pathological? It was so big that it eventually became a burden.

Yeah actually I would say pathological is a very good word to describe it. It's interesting though as during his time in captive he reflects that he has kept (supposedly) his sanity all because of the his raw and overwhelming emotions he has of Guts. His hate, love and everything in between hold him there. He believes himself still sane because of this (and maybe he is), but people with the strongest insanity believe themselves to be clear thinking and maybe this is the case. Still though, he still remains true to his vision to the end and I guess this takes some form of clear and sane thinking. The guy is seriously complex!

Causality aside, could Griffith had made a decent recovery if given the time and treatment?

We are told he will never ride a horse, swing a sword, speak or stand on his own two legs again. These combined disabilities make him near useless as a leader and the Band realise this and it causes depression for many and they loose all hope. But could he have been their leader again? Guts is given a metal and fully functioning arm when he looses it, so why could Griffith not have been given the same technology for all his limbs, thus allowing him to walk, fight and ride again. Although still mute, he would have been able to lead with these restored qualities in my opinion, using others to give commands (he would be able to now write after all). Combine this with his incredible will and desire he has been gifted with, surely he could have bounced back and more so than anyone.

What do you guys think?

As for Volume 38's release, there are at least 4 more episode releases before it can be collected into a volume. So I'd expect it by March, with a Dark Horse release by late 2016. I base that on how Volume 37 came out: Japan - March 2013; US - Dec 2013.

Damn, that's a long time! Thanks for the info.

Still in two minds as of whether to wait it out or not. I feel like I've waited this long, I could pull off another year maybe... Might have just have to have another (slow) re-read to fill time instead!

I was wondering how long it usually takes for comic episodes to be published and grouped as a volume. I know we've had a ton of hiatus and sporadic releases, but if someone could give me a best estimated guess it would be appreciated! Reason being I much prefer reading it in volumes as I like having large chunks to digest. It is taking everything I have to hold back on the new content, but just wondered if I would be waiting for months and months.

Any info appreciated, thanks.

p.s - haven't read anything since Vol. 37!

Indeed, I am still waiting to see the obvious example that you are talking about since the beginning of your arguments.

Fair enough, it's just hard for me to remember off the top of my head, I am on holliday and dont have my books at hand!

I would say though that it's not really isolated incidences that got to me, more the general tone set throughout some parts. Since getting on that boat I would say contains the worst of it. Ghost pirates.... need I say more? The whole way these characters were handled had me shaking my wooden leg, Me'heartys!! Awful dialogue at parts, which added nothing to the story. Never at one point did I feel like they posed a threat or had anything of value to add. Also this theme has been done before in pop-culture.

Another example...I enjoy the magic element in the series - the relationship between Guts and Schierke becuase of it, as well as adding to Farny development - but having it explained so much, over and over, got too much for me. So many painfully obvious things explained repeatedly, there was lots that I would have liked left for me to piece together myself. No spelling things out for me!

And as far as people having similar views to me, all I can say is have a look out there. It's not hard to find, reviews, forums, etc.

Fair enough that you like the Golden Age best, and you did say you still like the vast majority of the book which is great, I just don't feel the same about Miura pandering to demographics to cash in.  Clearly if he wanted to make bucks he would not be going about things the way he has with the ultra violence, rape scenes, and year long hiatus.

Thank you for the calm response ;).

Guys some seem to be getting a little too defensive on this issue... Please don't take this personally, it is my opinion and actually a common and shared view by many who have read the Berserk series, so please keep an open mind. Walter just to clarify, I have read the thing about 3 times and must have been about 5 years old when it first came out. Interesting that you felt the need to make this a part of the discussion.

I don't think Miura is a big sell out. I think he made some minor changes and loosened up a few things to accomodate for the times. I have no issue with children characters or with the increase in a fantasy theme. There has been children throughout, but the way thier dialogue was handled is more mature/thought-provoking in earlier works. To answer your question Walter - You can also have extreme violence and teen orientated content sharing the same space, it happens all the time, so this is no indication otherwise. Teen audiences LOVE gore afterall (and sex).

If I'm honest I'm bit surprised that no one agrees with me (even just a little!). In my opinion the watering down of content, poor dialogue and off pacing at parts is so damn obvious that maybe some rose-tinted glasses are being worn. We all love Berserk, but to treat it as this 30 year saga that never ONCE dropped in quality is obsurd. No artistic project in the world has remained at a 10/10 level throughout. Even Da Vinci saw his bad days. It is not an insult to Miura, just human and artistic nature.

Regarding the money... It is a factor and IMO naive to think otherwise. One example I can think of is in one of the early episodes when Puck is being introduced. Puck makes a direct referance to himself, explaining his reasoning for being there; a comic tool to break up the dark stuff. Miura felt the need to explain himself, clearly taking up suggestions to make the story open to people who dont want darkness 100% of the time. He adapted to meet more needs. Is this un-common in the industry?

Correct me if I'm wrong but when berserk goes on sale in young animal, aren't the number going up a lot for these issues?

Absoloutly, you see this rise in numbers due to opening up the demographic and making content more relatable for them. Childish was maybe a poor use of wording on my part, it's just allowing some of the content to target younger audiences. This was dissapointing for me, which is why I believe that some bits of the manga were better than others.

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. And have apparently not bothered reading what Walter told you either.

Wuhoo, just some observations on my part, no need to get fiesty now ;)

I read what Walter put. 'If Miura wanted to make money off the project he would go and create a shounen' (I got it right this time!). Thing is he already went a made a damn good seinen, BUT I think it's a fair comment that towards the end the material slowly - in parts!!! - opened up to be more shounen. As said, it's common place in all industry to widen you target audience as time goes on. Numbers fall it's inneviatble and this a result. You see it on almost all movie, tv, music and even in the art world too.

Edit - Manga/Anime is very different in the last 10 years, whats demanded by new generation is a lot more watered down and following tested formulas, it's easy for artists to get sucked in finacially or creatively influenced by the times they are in. Just how it is.

Haha knew it would be a little controversial, but I really did notice a decline in the script quality. Really I'm just talking about a few moments or episodes that feautred towards the of the end manga. 90% is great for me! Its almost expected and understandable, the guy's been writing this thing for years, its quite natural for decline in quality with these things. It's hard to make masterpieces everyday for 10+ years!

Just to clarify when I say literal/childish, it is not really the comic stuff and jokes that are annoying me at all, I enjoy these... It's hard, but maybe the best way of putting it is that I feel like im having everything spelled out for me. High percentage of script on the page can get devoted to it. Guts can often be the only one that grounds situations with a bit more realism.

Just to add, It's normal for the money to play a part in how these projects develop. Such a long and slow release over years will see number of readers drop. Publishing co. will pressure for more relatable characters and/or widden the target audience by loosening the niche. I think this is where a lot of the problems I find I have come from.

To me, the Golden Age Arc was a masterpiece and the true pinnacle of the manga. It did not go downhill after this point (it is still amazing) but the rest of the arcs do not quite live up to the standard of this one.

I actually found one or two of the volumes in the series to be really bad. The script particularly became way too childish and literall. Everything had to be spelled out for the reader, and in doing so, lots of the rich character development and interaction in the script was taken up by it. Only Guts' script steered clear of this and remained interesting.

This childish approach you could also see in the way Miura handled the characters artwork later on in the series. When big scenes (like fighting an apostle) emmerged, Miura would draw every character standing next to each other so perfectly in one shot, making sure to fit alllll of them in. This is common practice in shogun anime... You have to make sure the characters of each market demograph have enough screen time. It's more of an business move than an artistic one. Even Puck (who I learned to love) became nothing more than a comic tool. 

Manga Mausoleum / Re: Griffith's state of mind before Eclipse
« on: August 05, 2015, 03:30:00 PM »
I'm not sure if Griffith could be considered mentally sane (clinically speaking)

I disagree, I think he is sane, but has a goal drivin by such a huge ego that when things get in the way he has moments where he mentally breaksdown. More of a lapse rather than being a mentally unstable character. If anything, he is arguably the most clear thinking of them all.

Manga Mausoleum / Re: Griffith's state of mind before Eclipse
« on: August 04, 2015, 04:02:14 PM »
Thanks for the quick reply. I will be more thorough in the search next time.

Your descirption makes sense to me, I always had similar thoughts. I was unsure if the clear affection between Guts and Casca was also a factor...they make it seem so in the anime series. I also feel like the conversation between them both, about how Guts wants Casca to stay was when Griffith seems most upset, but it seemed harmless to me.

Manga Mausoleum / Griffith's state of mind before Eclipse
« on: August 04, 2015, 02:30:50 PM »
Hi, first post here.

So I have always been slightly confused about Griffith's state of mind in the points leading up to The Eclipse, particularly what causes him to trigger it.

From what I remember (I don't have the manga with me), Griffith tries to kill himself because he is clearly depressed that his dream is destoryed. This seems to be made worse when he see's Guts and Casca talking whilst he's bandaged in the wagon. Is it the apparent affection between them that sets him off, or is it that they talk about having to care for Griffith and it gives him a blow to his ego?? Casca seems to be particularly upset that Griffith heard them talk, but I don't understand what was so bad about it, or why Griffith would be so upset by this...

The second part of his mentallity is when he notices that the Beherit has returned to him, after his failed suicide attempt. Shortly after he see's Guts running towards him. Griffith is shouting "Stay Back!" and eventually "I'll never again forgive..." - In the anime he says "If he touches me..." or something along these lines. Either way, when Guts lays his hands on Griffith it is the final moment that starts the eclipse. So WHY is this? What is it about Guts that causes Griffith to reach a breaking point at this moment?

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