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Messages - MrFlibble

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Anime Asylum / Re: Berserk (2016) Premiere Poll
« on: July 04, 2016, 10:06:29 PM »
Is that a quote from the anime's director during pre-production?

It's so dense.

Anime Asylum / Re: Berserk (2016) Premiere Poll
« on: July 02, 2016, 11:50:41 AM »
I'll take any Berserk, I know the story makes no damn sense, the animation is awful, the editing is awful, the sound design is awful, the soundtrack is used inappropriately, but any Berserk is better than no Berserk.

Anime Asylum / Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 1
« on: July 01, 2016, 05:30:19 PM »
If you look carefully, you can spot Caucasian Casca in several frames of the opening.

And they made her a Brunette, i don't know why the hell they make these stupid choices.

Anime Asylum / Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 1
« on: July 01, 2016, 03:09:36 PM »
Why is Isidro serving drinks?

Why would Isidro let thugs overpower him when he's outwitted similar thugs in his debut episode?

Why is Guts picking a fight with thugs if they cut out the Snake Baron?

Why are the mercenary thugs hanging around a tree if they cut out Jill and the Lost Children chapter?

Why is the disemboweling of a child accompanied with a metal soundtrack?

Why did they show the eclipse again?

Where did Guts get the behirit from?

Why is Guts cooking food at night?

Podcast / Re: SPECIAL: Join our 2016 TV Series launch party
« on: June 30, 2016, 10:30:55 PM »

Skype name: vertigo6131

I'll make it if I can manage to watch it.

Current Episodes / Re: Episode 344
« on: June 23, 2016, 10:29:33 PM »
Like I said on the previous page: "What is implied is that what happened to Flora was part of a wider phenomenon. It already happened. How it did is not yet clear. But it certainly could explain a looooot of things, like how the Wingstones were formed (crystallized magic stolen from elsewhere?), why astral beasts may be attacking humans and/for Falconia, how the land around Falconia is so bountiful, and how the World Spiral Tree was created." Whether other forests like the one Flora lived in were inhabited is unknown, and how or when they were destroyed is unknown as well.

I always Chalked it up to the magic inside Ganishkas second incarnation. But it's strongly hinted that Falconia is an adapted version of Gaeserics city. Who knows what else was stolen. It was the war demons objective to kill Flora, not to burn down the forest, however one strange thing they did mention explicitly was that they wanted to cut Floras head off and bring it back with them, maybe Griffith is harvesting Witches bodies.

Agreed. One thing I was telling Gobolatula the other day is that I'm not sure many people realize what a historic time in Berserk this is. Not that every episode isn't awesome, but we're really at a pivotal moment in the series, more so than the Eclipse was. What is happening right now will set the story on a trajectory towards its ending. Those who thought volume 24 was an incredible expansion of what we know of the Berserk world should probably hold on to their seats because volume 39 will not fuck around.

It's really exciting, we've only seen glimpses of Fantasia, to get a broad perspective on what's happening will be very interesting. Fingers crossed they talk about the God Hand, they're the biggest loose thread in the series, hopefully we'll get some clues about their end game and where they are. I'd be surprised if they didn't expand on pre God Hand history.

Current Episodes / Re: Episode 344
« on: June 22, 2016, 08:13:54 PM »
I can't wait for the details on Griffiths attack on magical forests, does this mean that the siege of Flora's mansion wasn't just an isolated attack against one witch, but part of a larger campaign to destroy other Magus colonies? Does this mean Griffith commands other apostles across the world and not just his war demon army?

Movies, TV, Books & Music / Re: Game of Thrones TV [spoilers]
« on: June 22, 2016, 10:57:14 AM »
I beg to differ, you forgot that it's Littlefinger we're talking about here. Not only did Sansa not receive a word from him that he's coming, but also there's the trust thing that even if he said he's coming it would be dangerous for her to give her word to Jon based on Littlefinger's.
Not to mention there's no scenario in which Ramsay lets Rickon willingly stay alive, Rickon is the rightful heir of winterfell and poses a greater threat to Ramsay than Jon himself.

Now I'm not a sadist myself, but if I had a rule in how to kill that freak I wouldn't even kill him so fast like that. To me physical pain is NOTHING compared to mental pain.

I guess, but Jon was on the offensive, he could have picked any time to attack Ramsay, and if he knew about the Vale army, he could have waited for them to join Jons forces. Having Rickon as a hostage legitiamises his claim to the north, he could have easily have turned Rickon into an obedient slave like Theon.

I hate Ramsay too, but GRRM always wrote in contrary to readers expectations, and characters that did deserve retribution, like Jamie and Theon ended up being humiliated in ways that readers didn't expect or thought they deserved. Giving Ramsay a gruesome death by the hands of his captive feels like fan service to me.

Movies, TV, Books & Music / Re: Game of Thrones TV [spoilers]
« on: June 20, 2016, 10:38:44 PM »

That episode was a logical mess, Sansa waits until the last moment to show up with a larger army to change the tide of battle, (a rare occurrence in fantasy battles) instead of telling Jon about the Vale army beforehand, they could have used their numerical advantage to barter for Rickons life instead of letting hundreds of people including the King in the North die.

Seeing Sansa turn into a sadist was disturbing, maybe this is a darker chapter in Sansa's arc and she will become more ruthless like Arya from now on, or more likely they are satisfying fans raging revenge boners for Ramsay. revenge killing, especially Ramsay's brutal and ironic death is meant to be disgusting, not gratifying.

If it's a Berserk version of Hyrule Warriors, that's all I'll need, fighting armies of trolls and apostles as my favourite characters. But I am sick of these game trailers that don't show actual gameplay, though if the graphics are anything to go by it looks far better than the upcoming anime.

Anime Asylum / Re: New Berserk Anime for 2016
« on: June 10, 2016, 11:44:29 AM »
A couple new pieces of info just landed.

First: new preview video: ...ugh.

Also... this:


There were more cast announcements too. Godot, Silat, the Tapasa (only one voice is credited), Luca, Erika, Nina and Jerome are confirmed.

Guts sure is struggling against those Iron Chain Knights despite all those injuries he doesn't have. C'MON GUTS SWING THAT SWORD.

Current Episodes / Re: Episode 343
« on: June 09, 2016, 05:32:12 PM »
Serie will resume june 24 and will be monthly. Cover & lead color for chapter #344.

Can't wait, I'm glad they didn't promise a summer release and publish the episode August 31st or something. Hopefully this monthly schedule will last for as long as possible.

Here's the official word:

This issue will be coming with a 100 Pages of Berserk annex of some sort it looks like. Will definitely try and snag this in 2 weeks!

Edit - hmm upon closer examination the 1st episode is also coming out with this issue. It seems these two episodes might be connected somehow? I dunno exactly how though... maybe Guts' and Puck's meeting?

Hope it's good, I'd sell my right arm for a World of Ice and Fire style guide of the Berserk universe.

Manga Mausoleum / Re: Volume 38 Release
« on: May 25, 2016, 07:32:01 PM »
The one on the right is a revamped cover of volume 1. They had announced it a while back when the cover preview appeared in YA. Wasn't it mentioned in the thread? I thought it was. Maybe I forgot to.
Anyway, I'm not a big fan. I think I actually like the original cover better... The parallelism idea in itself remains cool though.

Will they be doing new covers for every volume?

Speculation Nation / Re: The Count's Daughter
« on: May 04, 2016, 08:09:17 PM »
I would have said no before,however characters that I assumed had died, suddenly turned up again, like Luka and her crew. I don't know how she would fit back into the story other than some angry noble with a vendetta against Guts.

Character Cove / Re: My piece on Griffith
« on: April 23, 2016, 08:52:36 PM »
One thing Berserk does staggeringly well it the actions of the characters speak volumes about the true personalities of those characters, rather than how the characters describe and perceive themselves, it certainly threw me off the first time I read the series. Guts seemed like a brutal psychopath interested only in vengeance without any care for those who suffer around him, but he is burdened by unbearable guilt, he feels horrible for what happened to Griffith, to the Hawks, how he left Theresa and Jill, for what happened to the girl and her father who were killed by specters. He despises Vargas because he's a reminder of his own weakness, like him he's broken in body and spirit, he's lost everything and is fighting a seemingly unwinnable war against the demons who ruined his life.

Griffith sees himself as an absolute unshakable indomitable force who's sole purpose is to pursue his dream of ruling a Kingdom, his environment and the people that surrounded him reinforced this self image so much so that companionship was of little value compared to his dream. Unlike Guts who had to bare the brunt of his fragility and fight in spite of it, Griffith never had to deal with rejection and loneliness because he could never bring himself to admit that Guts was of equal or more value to his dream. Griffith is fundamentally weak, I think all of the apostles are in some way, because they faced an unbearable fate and chose the cowards way out, ironic since they see themselves as above human. Whether Griffith has shed that "weakness" for good is yet to be seen.

Hi DasBouf!  :serpico:
I'm not sure this is what you're saying, but I don't think getting close to Guts broke Griffith's determination. After he formed a bond with Guts Griffith still wanted and actively pursued his dream, he just got to do it with Guts at his side. See that discussion I linked earlier, in it Aazealh brings up that Griffith didn't lose sight of his dream until it was out of his reach, after he was imprisoned and all jacked up.

I disagree, Griffith was ruined the moment Guts broke his sword, everything that happened afterwards was a result of that catalyzing moment where Griffiths sense of self broke down. Having sex with Charlotte was an attempt to reinforce what he wanted to take priority, his dream. But it failed, resulting in Griffith lamenting in his post sex stews about Guts. It's true, Griffiths friendship with Guts wasn't in conflict with his dream when he recruited him, or throughout his Midland campaign, but that all changed when Guts decided to leave and Griffith was forced to acknowledge the effect Guts had on him.

I think Griffith cared about Guts in a very selfish way. This stood out to me most in the battle they had when Guts was leaving and Griffith coldly thinks about how it's a possibility that he might seriously injure or kill Guts in the fight, but then decides he doesn't care if that happens because what matters most to him is keeping possession of Guts, not Guts himself. It's a pretty sad situation.

Guts was an indispensable asset to Griffith but I don't think Griffith saw Guts merely as a possession, that internal conflict I think was a demonstration of Griffiths mental faculties breaking down, notice that Griffith does not and cannot rationalize why he doesn't want Guts to leave, he doesn't say for example "I wont lose my strongest soldier", he just repeats "YOU CAN'T, YOU CAN'T, I WONT LET YOU". Griffith is losing it at this point, he's throwing an internal tantrum because he can't admit to himself that he cares for Guts as a friend, in short he's in complete denial. I don't think disregarding the fact that he might die is an act of callousness, it's an act of desperation.

Movies, TV, Books & Music / Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story
« on: April 08, 2016, 08:05:39 PM »

Speculation Nation / Re: How do you think Berserk will end?
« on: April 02, 2016, 04:41:43 PM »
Well this thread as derived a lot from what it's supposed to talk about and is starting to be a big waste of time imo.

I'd suggest many many reread....

My bad, I shouldn't have dragged it on for this long, but I wanted to defend my views to those who made the effort to reply to me, I've enjoyed the discussion I've had, but in retrospect I should have made it my own thread.

Berserk Miscellaneous / What qulifies One To Be A God Hand Member?
« on: April 02, 2016, 04:37:41 PM »
I was wondering what special traits does one need in order to enter the ranks of the God Hand, is it purely a numbers issue? as in the more you can sacrifice, the more powerful you can become, since so far Apostles have only sacrificed one or two people, whereas in the only two God Hand ceremonies we know of, hundreds of people were sacrificed. Or is it a personality a deciding factor? are each of the God Hand members chosen because they are the purest representations of a facet of evil, like how Conrad is associated with Death, Slan is associated with Lust. I'm interested in anyone eases thoughts on this.

Anime Asylum / Re: New Berserk Anime for 2016
« on: April 01, 2016, 11:24:09 AM »
Well they made the hilt black, preorder cancelled. It looks alright though, it's hard to judge the quality of the 3d animation for me since we only get a few seconds of each shot, at least they're doing some rotoscoping too. Having Isidro meet up with Guts in a forest doesn't look promising, looks like they're going to screw up the canon again, probably have him tail Guts through his misty valley journey or something.

Speculation Nation / Re: How do you think Berserk will end?
« on: March 31, 2016, 06:03:51 PM »
Dude, you're really having a tough time understanding the concept of the God Hand and IOE. You seem to think that IOE and the God Hand are obeying humanities collective will. Or that they are following what humanity commands them to do. That is totally backwards.

Once upon a time, humans desired reasons for all the negative things in life. Pain, sadness, suffering, their own senseless deaths. This is where the Idea of Evil was created.


However, it has become so powerful that it is now its own entity.

That isn’t correct, it isn’t its own entity, the IOE is a gestalt entity that obeys human will, when asked what it wants by Griffith, IOE replies “Do as I command lord Femto, my young apprentice” oh wait. No, what it actually says is “Do as thou wilt, my desire is your desire” He gives Femto the agency to carry out his task, he entrusts Griffith/Femto with saving humanity.

  It is not a slave to humans consciousness or anything like that. In fact, it is now controlling the destinies of mankind, to serve it's own purpose, which we as readers do not yet know to what extent.

That’s because it does not have its own purpose, there is no evidence to suggest it has its own purpose. If it did why would it bother with the tedious and long task of building a quintet of demons over the span of a thousand years? Why is it dependent on behilits, sacrificial ceremonies and the God Hand to carry out its will? Why does it do nothing but grant wishes if it is selfish?

  Comparing the IOE to a genie in a bottle is just retarded. It has purposefully and specifically designed things so that the God Hand and the Apostles would come to serve it, obediently, while also doing own their own bidding and following their own path. This is where the deception comes in and it's a display of how powerful IOE is. Not only that, but since the "merger" (the overlapping of the Astral world and Corporeal world) humans must now rely on the God Hand and the Apostles to keep them safe from the dangers of the Astral world. Again, they are being deceived. Needing the truly evil beings of the world as their protectors.

Are you saying the characters in Berserk have no agency of their own because their destinies are weaved by the Idea of Evil? It’s true the Idea of Evil weaved their destinies, but you’re only claiming it's deception because you morally object to what the IOE is doing, but this is what humans want, every character is following their own path based on their own will in the context that destiny gives them, you may view that as unfair, but it is not dishonest.

  Humans are not desiring the monsters or all the pain and destruction they bring. All that is a result of the will and control that the Idea of EVIL has woven for it's own desire.

No it isn’t, you said it yourself, humans desired reasons for their suffering and the IOE was birthed from that ingrained yearning, it did not weave its own origin.

  And rest assured that it is not to "create an ideal world demanded by humanity".  Do you understand this?

Why is it referred to as the “Desired god”, why is Griffith referred to as the “Desired”, why is Fantasia referred to as the “Desired world” somebody is desiring these things, it's undeniable.

Speculation Nation / Re: How do you think Berserk will end?
« on: March 30, 2016, 11:55:44 AM »
You are mistaken.  Griffith is not even slightly a Jesus figure.  He's an antichrist figure.  Like, plain as day he's an antichrist figure.  He's even got a powerful classic-vampire Charisma field that forces humans to feel like they totally love and trust this guy while they are near him. 

That’s because humans instinctively recognize him as their desired savior, even Guts, the man that has the most reason in the world to hate Griffith is not immune to this effect, Miura spells it out very clearly when Griffith is reborn. Where does the deception come in?

He's not even a Veidt-like guy doing all this terrible shit because he believes it is necessary to save humanity, or a Beherit-Apostle-like guy doing it because he believes the world is too awful and someone needs to burn it all down and try something else.

He’s kind of like Vedit, he’s incredibly talented and has decided to adopt the role of a saviour despite what pain and suffering he may cause, they both have their obstacles the have to overcome, Veidt’s is the growing threat of the cold war, Griffith’s is to achieve the IOEs goal of the ideal world demanded by humanity.

The very last time he genuinely thought about other people was when the God Hand suggested that giving up his dreams would mean that those who had fallen in his struggle in the past would have died in vain, and that made him feel terrible.  And he saved himself from the idea of having led friends to die in vain for his now-failed dream, by murdering more friends to keep his dream going.  It was a perverse way to deal with that pain.  And even that pain was burned away when he became Femto.  It's gone.  He's in it for himself now.  If there are happy people it's because he wants pet happy people.   

His humanity is gone, and he’s a much more transcendental entity than he was as a human, but his dream still remains, it’s all that remains of his humanity.

It wasn’t a way to deal with his pain, it was self preservation, he was at a crossroads where he was forced to choose between his comrades and his dream and he chose the latter. He’s become a God Hand so that he can carry on pursuing his that dream. He may have shed his humanity but he is still a being that pursues what he yearned for as a human, all apostles do it.

You say there is no deception but has he said "By the way, the way the countryside is filled with monsters now?  Yep, down to me, part of my big plan, it'll all be for the best I promise?" It's a pretty big lie of omission.  As Delta Phi and others in the past have said: rescuing people from harm you've caused entirely on purpose expressly so that you can rescue them and thus gain their gratitude?  It is an evil act.  If you set fire to someone's house, and then save them from the fire - and let them believe you have just saved them from a freak accident - that is a deception. 

 I don't understand how you can think that a plan whose steps include causing 99% of the world to be overrun with fuckoff bloodthirsty fantasy monsters is in the interests of humanity.  Unless you're casting Griffith as Noah and his fancy little city is Noah's Ark, with the entire rest of the world drowned.  Drowned in powerful, bloodthirsty fantasy monsters. 

Let me put it this way then, a lunatic comes across a genie lamp, he summons the genie, the lunatic begs the him to burn his house down and the genie grants his wish, the house is cinders, and the man frolics in the rubble, is the genie being dishonest? Is the genie doing wrong by the man even though he’s compelled to obey him?

If humanity wants a world over run with fuckoff monsters as you put it, humanity gets a world with fuckoff monsters. That’s how IOE works, what humanity as a collective wants is horrifying, that is why the Abyss and the God Hand are so dangerous, they are obeying a collective will that is self-destructive, again I have to ask, where does the deception come in?

If you're interested in the Idea of Evil's endgame specifically, I made an IOE post over in aiguille's thread the other day that's more or less pointed at that question.

I read it, and you explained it with greater clarity than I did, humanity’s reason for suffering now comes as cool ass monsters rather than the mundane and pointless suffering humanity is used to. But if you understand that why do you believe that the IOE doesn’t do what human will commands it to do?

Speculation Nation / Re: How do you think Berserk will end?
« on: March 29, 2016, 10:46:23 AM »
Episode 83 is not officially part of the series. It was removed from it.

Yeah, but by the way various characters describe the God of the Berserk world, it's obvious that it is the Idea of Evil or at least an equivalent entity. Void calls it the God born of man, Flora states the behilits were sent by a master, during the menlium ceremony both Puck and the Beherit apostle refer to a collective will demanding the rebirth of Griffith. Miura had no intention of ever letting the chapter be republished, so there is no incentive to cover up the story or retcon it.

Also, it's been made amply clear, like by the prophecy, that the "Falcon of Light" is a deception. Lastly, the very name "Idea of Evil" should be enough to make you doubt any velleities of bringing salvation to mankind

Neither the God Hand nor Griffith are deceptive, Griffith makes no effort to hide his extraordinary abilities, nor his war demons from his human subjects, he has been legitimatised by the Pope and the princess. He is the saviour the human race asked for and he has fulfilled that task. Even apostles who are aware of Femto recognition him as the hawk of light, he appears to Zodd as a shining hawk, reincarnated Ganishka views him beneath massive wings of light.

Let me be clear that salvation doesn’t necessarily mean sunshine and unicorns, what form salvation represents is up to the human race to decide, if the desired world is one with gradients of beauty and terror, then that is the world they get. The Idea of Evil is not in of itself evil, it is the “Idea” of evil, because the human race wanted the kind of evil represented in their myths and repressed selves.

Midland does not exist anymore. The entire astral world is not the Island of Skellig. Skellig is not just "miles away", nor is it besieged, nor should it be summarized as being "armed with scarecrows and a wicker man" (which have been destroyed anyway). And the goal isn't to turn ordinary people against the astral world so much as to cement their dependency on the God Hand. And Griffith is a member of the God Hand, lest you've forgotten. Clearly you don't seem to be arguing rationally here.

Thanks for clarifying that, I misunderstood you.
I see you have learned literally nothing from 30+ volumes establishing what the apostles' nature is. Nor from Locus' speech to Rickert about it mere episodes ago. Hilarious "thunderdome" reference, by the way.

"If the hawk did not lead them, apostles would follow their own selfish desires" We both agree on this, apostles are hedonistic monsters.

Just read again what you said just above. The apostles are now defending blablabla and safely segregated blablabla. This is a direct counterexample.

No it's not, the apostles may be horrible creatures but they're part of his kingdom too, he took them in and gave them a purpose, Griffith cannot change their nature, but he has extraordinary influence over them and his generals obey him without question, so long as their lust for mayhem is kindled they wont harm the humans.

No, you're misquoting episode 83. What the Idea of Evil says is this:

Humans desired reasons.
Reasons for pain, reasons for sadness, reasons for life, reasons for death, reason why their lives were filled with suffering, reasons why their deaths were absurd.
They wanted reasons for the destiny that kept transcending their knowledge.

Humans did not desire suffering. Please don't reply without at least making sure you know what you're talking about.

Accurate translations of that chapter are hard to come by, but what I said was still accurate.

Completely baseless extrapolation that seems to purposely ignore what is shown to us in the story, as well as what the Idea of Evil's philosophy is.

I can't believe anyone with an ounce of historical or mythological knowledge could manage to get the references this completely wrong. Griffith is so obviously meant to be a false savior that it pains me to have to point it out. Herakles? Reaaaally? And let's not even talk about the rest.

I was giving examples of demi gods that appear a lot in human culture, thematically Griffith is more like a Jesus figure than Heracles. And Griffith is a figure in the Berserk religion, as are the other God Hand. Silat calls incarnate Ganishka Shiva, his towering presence makes many characters exclaim that the “reason of the world has ended”. Ganishka was a follower of the God Hand and has turned away from them, he makes a mockery of the one true god, he wants to rein humans under an empire of terror, he is an anti christ figure, or at least the chosen enemy for Griffith to face, you can't get any more powerful than the ruler of the most powerful empire on Earth and the most powerful apostle in existence. Humans write the script and Griffith plays it out, the Skull Knight even makes reference that Griffith like a character in his own story.

It's the other way around. The God Hand's entire lives as humans were conceived so that they would become what they are. That is what Griffith is told in episode 83, which you keep referring to. I also didn't say they were inserting themselves into "God's will". I said they were inserting themselves into the corporeal world. They are, by definition, doing the Idea of Evil's bidding. That's why they're called the "God Hand", the hand of god. They can do whatever they want, but they were engineered so that what they want serves the Idea of Evil's purpose.

I agree with this, the paradox of free will is a topic that comes up a lot in the Berserk.

This is irrelevant to what I was saying. Yes, after being transformed into evil monsters, the evil monsters relish their evil monstrousness. Was there ever more than that to Rochine or the Count's characters? Who cares, right?.

Well you phrased it as if the God Hand are tricking people by turning them into demons, but they are fulfilling their desires.

There is more to them, but frankly it doesn’t matter, their enrolment involves cracking open the supressed dark emotions inside of them and sacrificing their loved ones to embrace that darker self, their malice hatred and lust are magnified, but it’s not as if it didn’t exist in the first place, Rosine and the Count wanted their loved ones dead for betraying them.

Individual suffering is a necessary component of mankind's suffering in general. The Idea of Evil is in each and every human's heart. Also, saying the Idea of Evil answers to the collective will of mankind is without much ground. It was created from the dark side of humanity's collective consciousness. Since then, it's weaved the destinies of men. Clearly, given how it has reshaped the world, it is a master more than a servant. A god, in fact.

But it does not act out of selfishness, everything it does is in accordance with the wishes of humanity, it has no individual will. Just because it’s powerful doesn’t mean it’s a dictator.

So, as I was telling you earlier, why do you think the world is as it is right now? ( Human will) Why do you think humans are made to desperately rely on the God Hand and apostles for survival against the outside world? (Because humans are driven to embrace monotheism)

Why is the astral world, a force that can rival the God Hand's, made to be an absolute enemy? (Creatures on their own are not the abosulte enemy of the God Hand.)

 Humans used to know magic and could presumably live in that world, long ago. Maybe they were allied with the nice astral beings against the bad ones. But now, they blindly rely on the power of evil. A power based only on mankind. This isn't a coincidence. This isn't without reason. This is the agenda.

It’s not the astral world itself that is at odds with the God Hand, rather the agents on the spectrum that they exist which are at odds with their desires, witches in Berserk view magic as a pursuit of knowledge and understanding of the worlds beyond the physical realm, the polytheistic gods represent elemental forces of nature, the magic of the god hand in contrast is centered around the fulfillment of human will, the Holy See acts as a proxy to suppress the influence of Polytheism and magic for this reason. In short the astral beings act in favour of the forces of nature and not human nature. Also The God Hand can only govern the physical world, they have no control of the astral world, giving figures like Flora, SK and to a lesser extent Guts the ability to fight against them.

I think where we differ is that you believe the God Hand are lying to the world, they’re pretending to act in the interests of humanity but are secretly plotting to create hell on Earth, and Griffith is waiting reveal his grand deception.

And I think there is no deception in either the God Hand or Griffith, that fantasia is something humans truly wanted, and Griffiths goal is to create a kingdom where is subjects live in happiness, not to suddenly turn cruel and rule them like a dictator.

Speculation Nation / Re: How do you think Berserk will end?
« on: March 14, 2016, 09:25:46 PM »
There's no curve ball as far as the reader is concerned. Falconia and Fantasia were engineered for a purpose, and that purpose was not "to give Griffith his kingdom". It's not even a proper kingdom, as a matter of fact, but more of a city-state. Griffith could have just ruled Midland or anything else, but the God Hand and their master maneuvered from the very beginning, from before even Femto's incarnation, in order to create the current situation. Do you think it was a coincidence we saw a double page for each member of the God Hand when Fantasia came to be? It was not. Femto was not incarnated just so that he could have tea with Charlotte and play at being a good ruler. Femto, the wings of darkness. Femto, the one who will bring about the age of darkness. Femto whose soul is infused with evil. It is beyond naive at this point in the series to question whether the God Hand is anything but evil and scheming something sinister. And Femto is the God Hand's vanguard. So really, the evidence you're looking for is spread all over the series, and it starts in the Black Swordsman arc.

I'm not denying the God Hands malevolence, or Griffith's darker nature, such a ruthless person wouldn't be where he was if he didn't embrace evil. But he encapsulates light and dark, he is both the saviour and bane of the Berserk world, the Idea of Evil even gave him a choice "May you bring pain or salvation to makind" (Anyone who has better translations can correct me on this)

And if that wasn't enough, just think about the current situation. Basically 99% of what's left of humanity is living huddled inside those walls, you don't think that's the least bit suspicious? You don't think the narrative is being played very specifically to maximize people's dependency on the God Hand while emphasizing that everything else, and especially the astral world, is their enemy?

The God Hands whereabouts are unknown, Midland is only dependent on Griffith. And I don't think Griffith is concerned with turning public opinion against an island of besieged witches miles away, Armed with scarecrows and a wicker man.

And what about the fact people are being protected by apostles, monstrous creatures that Berserk as a series has spent 30+ volumes establishing as enemies of mankind?

The apostles that once raped and pillaged at their leisure who now direct their bloodthirstiness to defending Falconia's borders, and are safely segregated from the rest of the population in their Thunderdome. 

What about Rakshas going after Rickert's head? Not a concern? An isolated incident? Come on.

I think Rakshas was acting on his own, he thought Rickert was easy prey and the fight got out of hand with the help of the Bakiraka, I think if Griffith really wanted to have Rickert killed he wouldn't have let Rickert and his crew escape on Garuda, he would have sent Zodd and the demon air force to pursue them. Anyway this is anecdotal, I'm not trying to attribute good intentions to the apostles or God Hand.

Hah! Is he now? Humans desired Fantasia in the way that it persisted in their collective consciousness like a half-forgotten daydream, an ancient echo of what once was. But did humans want it like this? Did they want a supremely hostile world, one that only allows them to survive in a single place ruled over by the God Hand? Raban does not seem to think so. And neither do Rickert or Erika, and many others, I'm sure.

Yes they did, humans in the Berserk world desire suffering , It's kind of like a scene in one of my favourite sitcoms Red Dwarf,  Rimmer is in a perfect reality where he can experience his fantasies come to life, but as a pessimist he can't stop imagining bad things happening to him, and eventually ends up buried neck deep with jam smothered on his face to be eaten alive by ants.

In the same way the human race of the Berserk world don't wish to end their suffering , they want absurd justifications for their suffering that surpass the mundane suffering of famine, disease and destitution, fantastic gradients of suffering in the form of monsters and demons, a distopia is more vivid and realistic than a Utopia. The Milenium Falcon arc has a lot of ties to human myth and religion, Ganishka is the anti Christ/Mara/Hades, the all encompassing evil. Griffith is Jesus/Gilgamesh/Heracles, the demigod savior of mankind , and Ganishkas second incarnation represents the apocalypse, a masochistic fantasy in many religions.

You say Femto and the God Hand exist to serve human mass subconsciousness, but it's really not quite that simple. For one thing, if they had no agenda they wouldn't be interfering directly with the world like they're doing, inserting themselves into it. And they're not neutrally granting people's wishes either, there's always an evil twist to everything they do. 

On the contrary, the God hand are probably chosen because their agendas in some way suit the Idea of Evil, self inserting themselves into God's will doesn't mean undermining it, both the IOE and the God Hand encourage free expression. "Do as thou wilt".

There's an evil twist to everything they do I agree, but most apostles who have their wishes granted are ecstatic, Rosine, Wyald, Mozgus, the snake Baron, they love being demons, there are very few apostles appealing to the God Hand to exchange their monster penis bodies. 

Even the Idea of Evil in episode 83 makes it clear what it's all about (hence its name). It provides reasons for the bad things that keep happening. Saying mankind's suffering is irrelevant means you're fundamentally mistaken about the nature of the Idea of Evil and its servants.

I said individual suffering is irrelevant to the IOE, the Idea of Evil answers to the collective will of mankind, not individuals, the refugees as a collective wanted the birth of their savior Femto/Griffith, but as individuals they didn't want to be buried alive and digested by specter blobs. It's like when Isidro asks why humanity simply doesn't reject their desire to believe in fantasy and Schierke rebuts him by saying the human subconsciousness isn't something humans have any control over.

Speculation Nation / Re: How do you think Berserk will end?
« on: March 11, 2016, 03:39:26 PM »
It is painfully obvious that Griffith has an ulterior agenda besides "running his kingdom". 

Again I'm open to Femto throwing a massive curve ball, But I don't see any evidence for it yet.

I think that's quite obvious. We, the readers, aren't meant to question Griffith's motives. We know he's evil. I've seen a lot of readers get tripped up on Falconia. They see Griffith's actions and assume he's trying to protect humanity from the monsters outside. But remember, Griffith is responsible for these monsters showing up in the first place (and thanks to a little help from SK). Now humanity is solely dependent on him. Setting fire to someone's house so that you can be the one to save them doesn't make you a hero.

He is giving humanity what they want though, subconsciously humans desire the Fantasia world and Griffith and the God Hand exist to serve human mass subconsciousness, whether individual humans suffer or not isn't relevant to mankind's desires. It's not Femto's place to question humanity's will, but if he can fulfill his own dream as well it's a win-win situation.

If I had to guess my ideal ending for Berserk would be the death of the God Hand and IOE, humanity returns to it's own devices and polytheism returns to the world, it would be interesting to see Griffith redeem himself, it's too late for complete atonement, but maybe a last ditch effort to undo his mistakes somehow would allow Guts to find some kind of peace, more so than Guts actually killing him. It would be interesting to see the Skull Knight fight Guts as well, if the Moonlight boy is Guts' son who shares Griffiths vessel, then an enmity between Guts and SK might emerge, but there isn't any reason to believe they will at the moment, besides "Wouldn't it be really really awesome?".

Speculation Nation / Re: How do you think Berserk will end?
« on: March 05, 2016, 02:52:05 PM »
What we really need to know is what Griffith's motive is now that he has a kingdom.

His motive is to run his kingdom, there is no evidence that Griffith has any ulterior agenda.

"The Hawk has but one goal, you ( :guts:) should know it better than anyone"- :SK:
"I told you one before, I will get my own kingdom, nothing has changed" - :griffnotevil:

 That isn't to say his ambition wont become corrupted somehow like with Rosine's Misty Valley, but anyone anticipating some kind of Falconia Mega Eclipse shouldn't get their hopes up.

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