Episode 367

Well, Casca is unconscious right now. So I'm not sure why what Casca might want is even a factor.
I meant in the event of a succesful abduction, just to clarify.

But yea I see both your points.

P.S. -For some reason I can't figure out how to quote properly, lol

P.S. 2 - Found it
 
I'm mostly ambivalent to Casca being kidnapped. It's disappointing that Guts has struggled long and hard to get her back mentally, only to lose her physically. However, it does make sense from a narrative perspective. Casca will become the POV character within Falconia after Rickert took off, and there's potential for some interesting interactions with Charlotte and Sonia, let alone Griffith of course. Although I'm curious how Mori & Studio Gaga are going to handle those nuanced character dynamics when everything has been so laconic and action-oriented so far.
 
Am I the only one having trouble seeing what's physically happening?

In this fight with Zodd I feel like I'm not even sure how he got behind him. Why does Guts suddenly panic and looked surprised?


I go back to previous fights and I can tell all the choreography from Miura's images.

I know the team is doing their best, and I'm very glad they are continuing the series. But, I am having trouble piecing together what is physically happening in the fight scenes.
 
I apologize if it’s already been stated. But couldn’t Zodd have just followed the boy through the world tree branches without Sonia? As long as the boy is in the lead like Griffith or Sonia then couldn’t Zodd just follow him without getting lost? Sonia didn’t know about the existence of the boy when she made that statement to Mule.
 
I apologize if it’s already been stated. But couldn’t Zodd have just followed the boy through the world tree branches without Sonia? As long as the boy is in the lead like Griffith or Sonia then couldn’t Zodd just follow him without getting lost? Sonia didn’t know about the existence of the boy when she made that statement to Mule.
It's not impossible. It would be a bit weird for Zodd to just wait for the presence of the boy to change, but it's not something that would be too unbelievable. They could re-assure us by just adding a simple exchange by them, but i honestly at this point am not sure...
 
It's not impossible. It would be a bit weird for Zodd to just wait for the presence of the boy to change, but it's not something that would be too unbelievable. They could re-assure us by just adding a simple exchange by them, but i honestly at this point am not sure...
Yeah. Actually it would be strange if Zodd was able to travel around following Griffith/boy on the tree before they first showed the army doing it in 357. But members here figured out awhile ago that Zodd at least lurks around near Griffith when he transforms. So Zodd must’ve had some way of following the boy even before the roar of the astral world.
 
I apologize if it’s already been stated. But couldn’t Zodd have just followed the boy through the world tree branches without Sonia? As long as the boy is in the lead like Griffith or Sonia then couldn’t Zodd just follow him without getting lost? Sonia didn’t know about the existence of the boy when she made that statement to Mule.
It's not impossible. It would be a bit weird for Zodd to just wait for the presence of the boy to change, but it's not something that would be too unbelievable. They could re-assure us by just adding a simple exchange by them, but i honestly at this point am not sure...
Yeah. Actually it would be strange if Zodd was able to travel around following Griffith/boy on the tree before they first showed the army doing it in 357. But members here figured out awhile ago that Zodd at least lurks around near Griffith when he transforms. So Zodd must’ve had some way of following the boy even before the roar of the astral world.
Maybe Sonia Is telepathically showing the pat to go through to Zodd... But probably we will never know.
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Am I the only one having trouble seeing what's physically happening?
Nope, not the only one. I thought the fight was a little confusing (what is Zodd exactly doing with his hand....?) but the sequence of events from the wind to the tree losing its buds and the ooze dudes emerging wasn't clear until a re-read and discussing it here.

But members here figured out awhile ago that Zodd at least lurks around near Griffith when he transforms. So Zodd must’ve had some way of following the boy even before the roar of the astral world.
I think you're misremembering. The idea from the beginning is that Zodd was on the beach outside Vritannis because the boy needed transportation, not because he was stalking him. Later, the boy didn't need Zodd anymore because he could travel through the branches of the world spiral tree.

What's clear is that Sonia isn't here, but Zodd is, despite her very clear wording about the limitations of traveling through the tree.

But couldn’t Zodd have just followed the boy through the world tree branches without Sonia?
If he did, Zodd would have appeared when the boy originally did (but he didn't). And if the boy emerged from the tree before him (which he did), then Zodd would have been lost, per Ep 357:

Griffith: Never lose sight of the person ahead of you!
Sonia: Hey, you two, if you take your eyes off, you'll get lost.
Mule: Get lost...?
...
Sonia: Yes! A person who doesn't have special senses like Lord Griffith or I do would get lost in endlessly dividing branches and might pop out into an unexpected place. If anything goes wrong, he might even end up in the sea or underground.
 
Sonia: Yes! A person who doesn't have special senses like Lord Griffith or I do

- If this is the accurate translation of that line, would simply mean that you need "special senses" like Sonia and Griffith, not that they're the only ones. Maybe even Zodd have this powers who knows.
 
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I almost wish that I didnt care about berserk anymore because these episodes are a bit frustrating, even if I did enjoy parts of them. My critiques have largely been mentioned by others such as lack of dialogue, farnese and schierke just suddenly standing aside from casca, zodd not really doing or saying anything, lack of sonia or other explanation as to how zodd was able to use the world tree branches, some art & paneling being confusing, and guts somehow managing to suppress the BoD. One I haven't seen mentioned Is that Guts' brand hasnt been shown at all which is really strange. I understand that he's enraged but just a hint that he's in physical pain or showing that the brand is bleeding would help ease the dissonance. Casca being kidnapped is also bemusing to say the least, although I doubt Gaga & Mouri would make such a consequential plot point up. I can only hope that either the attempt fails or that she breaks out of whatever prison she is put in quickly and finds luca in falconia.

I do think the dialogue with isma, danan serpico, and Isidro felt relatively ok (although the latter two look kind of rough in a couple of panels). The destruction of elfhelm in this way is not something I predicted and is actually pretty interesting, I hope it is given the gravitas it deserves in the future episodes but it probably won't unfortunately.


All in all I just feel like I'm still in the bargaining stage of grief with regards to miura, which I know is selfish given I didn't know him personally. It also makes me upset that I'm being so critical because I know Mouri & studio gaga are trying their best and I appreciate that they chose to undertake this project at all.
 
I think you're misremembering. The idea from the beginning is that Zodd was on the beach outside Vritannis because the boy needed transportation, not because he was stalking him. Later, the boy didn't need Zodd anymore because he could travel through the branches of the world spiral tree.

If he did, Zodd would have appeared when the boy originally did (but he didn't). And if the boy emerged from the tree before him (which he did), then Zodd would have been lost, per Ep 357:
I understand now. Thank you for the refresh. I checked the dialogue again in 357 before I posted. But I seemed to have already forgotten how 366 depicted Zodd’s appearance. It’s not like he sprang from the bushes. He emerged right from the world tree. So I see the issue. Maybe they’ll elaborate on world tree travel some more later. Maybe there’s something Sonia doesn’t know about it :shrug:Even Schierke was wrong before.
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Yeah, hopefully there's more revelations about the ins and outs of tree travel to come, especially if and when we see other characters do it, that will shed some light on this. Unfortunately, even if there is a good explanation, if Miura didn't tell anybody we may never square Sonia's exposition with Zodd's appearance and apparent exemption from the rule, whether he was guided by the boy, Sonia somehow, or he simply has better supernatural senses than we give him credit (his fight with Ganishka certainly doesn't point to that =). We're already so far off the map in many ways though I'm not going to presume it's just an error without confirmation either way, perhaps it's merely another thing we're not really getting the full picture on (like the brand, the beast armor, Griff's powers, etc), which only Miura could provide accurately with great detail and nuance.

Casca being kidnapped is also bemusing to say the least, although I doubt Gaga & Mouri would make such a consequential plot point up. I can only hope that either the attempt fails or that she breaks out of whatever prison she is put in quickly and finds luca in falconia.

That's definitely one of the best potential aspects of such a scenario. Perhaps she'd even be the one to reconnect with Rickert and the Bakiraka, we know how much Silat is interested in people connected to the Falcon.
 
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Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Sonia: Yes! A person who doesn't have special senses like Lord Griffith or I do

- If this is the accurate translation of that line, would simply mean that you need "special senses" like Sonia and Griffith, not that they're the only ones. Maybe even Zodd have this powers who knows.
Well, it doesn't require special information to know the answer to this. You could just read the rest of 357:

Sonia: Only Lord Griffith and I can come and go through the branches without getting lost.
 

Frogacuda

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Too much is being made of Zodd's presence here without Sonia, based on the large and unfounded assumption that he just arrived, when we know from past encounters that he chaperone's the Moonlight Boy's outings. We can see him peeking over the hill during one of them. I think it's safe to say Zodd followed Griffith there when he first arrived, and has been there the whole time, only making himself known when things got hot. I don't see this as any kind of plot hole.

That said, I am feeling like we are getting the cliffnotes version of things. I want to know what Casca is thinking (or how she got there). I get that Guts' mind is pretty blank right now but Casca must be losing it.
 
Good episode. I do wish we got to see a little more of what Guts was thinking. Sets up an intriguing premise of Casca in Falconia.
 
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Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Am I the only one having trouble seeing what's physically happening?

In this fight with Zodd I feel like I'm not even sure how he got behind him. Why does Guts suddenly panic and looked surprised?

It's not just you. The sequence of events is very disjointed in the three episodes they've done.

Maybe they’ll elaborate on world tree travel some more later. Maybe there’s something Sonia doesn’t know about it :shrug:Even Schierke was wrong before.

I wouldn't hold my breath for them to "elaborate" on much of anything. And there's not really any leeway for Sonia to be wrong about this, whereas Schierke was obviously mistaken. It's probably just an inconsistency among others. Like the fact Guts simply gets past Zodd to strike at Griffith.

Too much is being made of Zodd's presence here without Sonia, based on the large and unfounded assumption that he just arrived, when we know from past encounters that he chaperone's the Moonlight Boy's outings. We can see him peeking over the hill during one of them. I think it's safe to say Zodd followed Griffith there when he first arrived, and has been there the whole time, only making himself known when things got hot. I don't see this as any kind of plot hole.

You should read what other people say before replying. We see Zodd emerging at high speed from a branch of the World Tree. Just before he does, we see a character feeling that "something's coming". If Zodd had simply followed the boy, he would have arrived at the same time he did, not days later. And if he'd been waiting up there like you're saying, he would have been detected earlier, or at least Puck wouldn't have sensed him "coming" (from where?). Furthermore, from what we've seen, those branches are conduits you zip through, not physical places you can camp in. Your own assumption is what's unfounded here.

And while we're at it, Zodd brought the boy to the beach because the World Tree wasn't available as a means of travel at the time. On the solitary island the boy comes and leaves by himself using those branches and Zodd isn't involved.
 
If Zodd had simply followed the boy, he would have arrived at the same time he did, not days later. And if he'd been waiting up there like you said, he would have been detected earlier, or at least Puck wouldn't have sensed him "coming" (from where?).
I personally though Zodd had been lurking in his human form in the depths of the forest, like a jungle caveman, so stealthy the inhabitants didnt notice him. So his 'power level was suppressed,' so to speak, but when Griffith emerged, Zodd unleashed his Apostle form, jettisoning all stealth. That's what Puck sensed.
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
I personally though Zodd had been lurking in his human form in the depths of the forest, like a jungle caveman, so stealthy the inhabitants didnt notice him. So his 'power level was suppressed,' so to speak, but when Griffith emerged, Zodd unleashed his Apostle form, jettisoning all stealth. That's what Puck sensed.

:ganishka: Please don't joke around, we're trying to have a serious conversation.
 

Frogacuda

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
You should read what other people say before replying. We see Zodd emerging at high speed from a branch of the World Tree. Just before he does, we see a character feeling that "something's coming". If Zodd had simply followed the boy, he would have arrived at the same time he did, not days later. And if he'd been waiting up there like you're saying, he would have been detected earlier, or at least Puck wouldn't have sensed him "coming" (from where?). Furthermore, from what we've seen, those branches are conduits you zip through, not physical places you can camp in. Your own assumption is what's unfounded here.
Hm, I didn't really get where he was coming from the first time I read it, other than "up", but re-reading it I see what you mean. It would have made sense to me if Zodd was already there laying in the cut as he has been for past moonlight boy outings, but that doesn't seem to be how it's set up here.

Still it's not a stretch to me that Griffith could guide him without being physically with him. He does have the ability to touch the minds of apostles and all that. It's not as if Zodd acted on his own or went somewhere else.
 
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Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
For the sake of throughness, here's what Zodd was doing in episode 357 (only 10 episodes ago!):
WxubxdJ.png


He was perhaps looking ahead to this stimulating conversation concerning him, no doubt embarrassed by all the attention.:zodd:

Re-reading the episode, the apostles also returned to human form in order to pass through, yet Zodd in his embiggened form was apparently able to fit, eh (I'm a legit nerd too =). Or he walked, then transformed just before exiting the tree (maybe Gunlord was onto something!), if that's even possible in, like, the tree departure zone without Sonia directing you to the correct terminal.:shrug:
 
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Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Still it's not a stretch to me that Griffith could guide him without being physically with him. He does have the ability to touch the minds of apostles and all that. It's not as if Zodd acted on his own or went somewhere else.

Touch the minds of apostles? Not really, I mean this isn't like the Falcon of Light dream the whole country had. And I can't really imagine Griffith guiding Zodd telepathically all the way from Falconia to the island through infinite branching paths, especially since he apparently needs Sonia's telepathic powers on the battlefield to begin with.

Re-reading the episode, the apostles also returned to human form in order to pass through, yet Zodd in his embiggened form was apparently able to fit, eh (I'm a legit nerd too =).

Hey, that's a good point! In theory, it could be that Zodd flew up to one of the branches and entered it like that directly (instead of using the dolmens), but that doesn't explain how he navigated to the island. Anyway, unless he plays a key role in the next episode, I'm fine with the assumption the team just brought him in because they wanted Griffith on fly off on his back while holding Casca. :shrug:
 
Good episode. I do wish we got to see a little more of what Guts was thinking.

I think studio gaga should really try to convey guts emotions visually as best as possible. Since its apparent they have little to work with when it comes to his personal thoughts.
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Puella's translation just dropped. The key line of the episode:

Danan: …Everything... (has been) broken...!
Danan: D...dangerous
Danan: (They’ll) start overflowing… From the bottom of the earth… One after the other…!

Pretty safe bet: That's the protections being broken. As for what those things are from deep underground, I took a guess at it before based on their form: ancient specters. But why are they deep underground Elfhelm? A well of souls that didn't move on, for whatever reason?
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Touch the minds of apostles? Not really, I mean this isn't like the Falcon of Light dream the whole country had. And I can't really imagine Griffith guiding Zodd telepathically all the way from Falconia to the island through infinite branching paths, especially since he apparently needs Sonia's telepathic powers on the battlefield to begin with.

Yeah, Griffith USES Sonia to touch the minds of Apostles!

Hey, that's a good point!

But of course. :griffnotevil:

Here's another one to remember: Sonia literally says of the branches for Griffith to call for her anywhere in the world and she'll come running, basically. Hmmmm. I wonder if we'll see her yet or if they'll bend the rules a little that she did guide Zodd telepathically like on the battlefield? That's the easiest cheat without BSing that she was only talking down to normal humans and excluding Apostles to make her and Griffith sound more special. =) I mean, I wouldn't be shocked if fucking Puck said he could navigate it, even though he'd surely take you somewhere wrong. :ganishka:

Anyway, yeah, this is looking like a quick smash and grab currently, which limits the possibilities, but we'll see...

Anyway, unless he plays a key role in the next episode, I'm fine with the assumption the team just brought him in because they wanted Griffith on fly off on his back while holding Casca. :shrug:

That's also one of the most logical explanations. =)

Puella's translation just dropped. The key line of the episode:



Pretty safe bet: That's the protections being broken. As for what those things are from deep underground, I took a guess at it before based on their form: ancient specters. But why are they deep underground Elfhelm? A well of souls that didn't move on, for whatever reason?

I like the idea that the flipside to Griffith's departed-loved-one lightshow after battles is that it also implies he controls the souls of the damned and can summon them like a plague. Could be a lot of things, though!

On the second page top panel, is that Griffith noticing the beast of darkness or am I missinterpreting it?

Looks something like that, but it's a bit confusing given everyone's actions and positioning otherwise; Guts isn't particularly close or a threat to Griffith, nor does he seem very consumed by beastly urges, so unclear as of yet why they wanted to note that then. Could pay off before Griffith leaves though.
 
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