Episode 367

Walter

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I like the idea that the flipside to Griffith's departed-loved-one lightshow after battles is that it also implies he controls the souls of the damned and can summon them like a plague. Could be a lot of things, though!
That sounds like it has merit. When I thought about specters, I wasn't thinking about Griffith's ability to manipulate souls. Maybe Elfhelm has been keeping a well of them from moving on (maybe those old man trees?) and when Griffith called them up, they were pulled from deep underground, ripping everything in their path.

Whatever they are, them rising to the surface seems to have either triggered OR was triggered by the breaking of the island's protections.
 

Aazealh

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Pretty safe bet: That's the protections being broken. As for what those things are from deep underground, I took a guess at it before based on their form: ancient specters. But why are they deep underground Elfhelm? A well of souls that didn't move on, for whatever reason?

I think it could hint at the dark secret behind Skellig, with Danan's power basically acting like a seal on an ancient evil. And now the seal's broken. What I'm wondering is just how big of a catastrophe we are looking at here. Is it just the island that's endangered, or the world at large?

On the second page top panel, is that Griffith noticing the beast of darkness or am I missinterpreting it?

I think it's supposed to represent Guts' rage at him or something. The Beast of Darkness is just a visual representation of what's inside Guts' head so no character should be able to perceive it directly, unless they went into his mind like with the Corridor of Dreams. Anyway, the bottom line is that it doesn't make much sense given how far back Guts is, and was probably just a way to save time on the background behind Griffith.

Here's another one to remember: Sonia literally says of the branches for Griffith to call for her anywhere in the world and she'll come running, basically. Hmmmm. I wonder if we'll see her yet or if they'll bend the rules a little that she did guide Zodd telepathically like on the battlefield? That's the easiest cheat without BSing that she was only talking down to normal humans and excluding Apostles to make her and Griffith sound more special. =)

I don't expect much in the way of explanations to be honest, but I'll take what I get. That said I think it's best to assume they only have the barest of bones to go on and are just muddling their way through.

I mean, I wouldn't be shocked if fucking Puck said he could navigate it, even though he'd surely take you somewhere wrong.

He'd get to where he's going, but you end up in a volcano.
:ganishka:


More seriously though, I think it goes without saying that any magician could probably do it with enough training and concentration. I would have expected Schierke to eventually lead the group through the tree in that manner for example.
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
I think it's supposed to represent Guts' rage at him or something.

This is the Nu-Berserk level Aaznalysis of Nu-Berserk. =)

The Beast of Darkness is just a visual representation of what's inside Guts' head so no character should be able to perceive it directly, unless they went into his mind like with the Corridor of Dreams.

Or when the armor transforms, that's when things really got muddled, but in a cool way that made sense. Chicken or the Egg: Did those ghosts that first formed the beast back in like volume 16 incept him or pull him early from Guts' mind?

Anyway, the bottom line is that it doesn't make much sense given how far back Guts is, and was probably just a way to save time on the background behind Griffith.

Ouch, only three episodes in and they're already too big now to draw the backgrounds anymore. =)

I don't expect much in the way of explanations to be honest, but I'll take what I get. That said I think it's best to assume they only have the barest of bones to go on and are just muddling their way through.

There's definitely a lot of muddled elements at this juncture. I think things may become clearer once they establish their own visual motifs and we learn how to properly interpret their meaning.

He'd get to where he's going, but you end up in a volcano.
:ganishka:

Haha, he would almost immediately zoom out of sight and then not be able to find you by the time he realized you were gone.

More seriously though, I think it goes without saying that any magician could probably do it with enough training and concentration. I would have expected Schierke to eventually lead the group through the tree in that manner for example.

Yeah, I think we all expected Schierke to be able to do it at some point, and likely any magic user with the talent could as well (see, we agree, Sonia is so full of it =). Daiba and Rickert could have saved the day if only they knew where to find the island; those pterodactyls could be the equivalent of the eagles from LotR. :daiba:

Wouldn't be the strangest thing Guts has ridden anyway. Speaking of riding Zodd, it's too bad we're likely never going to get to hear Guts really shit talking him someday, calling him Griffith's servant, etc. :guts:

:stop:"Your words are impolite... *sniffle* and hurtful."
 
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Aazealh

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This is the Nu-Berserk level Aaznalysis of Nu-Berserk. =)

I'm matching their effort. :iva:
Anyway, I do think that's what it is, although the precise word I had in mind is 殺気 if you want to know. "Bloodthirst", basically.

Or when the armor transforms, that's when things really got muddled, but in a cool way that made sense. Chicken or the Egg: Did those ghosts that first formed the beast back in like volume 16 incept him or pull him early from Guts mind?

Definitely pulled from his mind, as they teased him about his own guilt and insecurities.

Ouch, three episodes in and they're already too big now to draw the backgrounds anymore. =)

Honestly they were already cutting corners on that front in the two previous episodes.

Speaking of riding Zodd, it's too bad we're likely never going to get to hear Guts really shit talking him someday, calling him Griffith's servant, etc.
:guts:

Indeed, among many other things... :sad:
 

Frogacuda

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
So I'm not totally clear, did Griffith stop Guts blow or did he manage to pull his strike somehow (seems physically impossible with a weapon like the Dragon Slayer but this is manga so...) when he noticed Casca?
 
Guts didn't stop his strike. It seems the blow was just absorbed or nullified, doing no damage whatsoever.
This is also exactly as i took it. In fact on page 8 when Guts strikes at Griffith full swing, we don't see Casca being in his arms, possibly because Guts doesn't see her. I want to think it's a result of his diminishing vision that has been a topic since a few episdoes now.
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Yeah, when I first saw it (at work on my phone, so not the best circumstances) I couldn't tell if Guts had stopped himself at the last moment because of Casca, or if it basically hit Griffith like he was a chunk of steel, but it makes the most sense with Femto's abilities that the attack was basically "nullified" as Aaz put it.

As for why he didn't stop, I think in Guts' mind Griffith getting ahold of Casca is potentially endgame, and he was trying to hit him without striking Casca, thus why he's going for the shoulder and not the head. Of course, there's more than a few logistical question marks on those pages and the ones following, so I probably shouldn't read too much into it. At least it seems much clearer than what we saw in 365 and 366.
 
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I for one disagree, this scene seems identical to that time Guts stopped his sword strike during their duel. To be it seems most likely that the hit would have went through griffith, like the ones before.
 
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Aazealh

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we don't see Casca being in his arms, possibly because Guts doesn't see her. I want to think it's a result of his diminishing vision that has been a topic since a few episdoes now.

Or possibly because they didn't bother adding her in. :iva:

As for why he didn't stopp, I think in Guts' mind Griffith getting ahold of Casca is potentially endgame, and he was trying to hit him without striking Casca, thus why he's going for the shoulder and not the head.

That's also how I see it. Griffith heading for Casca is the ultimate "trigger" and he gave all he had to prevent it. And it amounted to nothing. Rather depressing, in and of itself.

I for one disagree, this scene seems identical to that time Guts stopped his sword strike during their duel.

They were definitely trying to make this scene similar to their previous duel, but in volume 8 Guts was slashing through Griffith's saber, while here he's striking at him directly. And nothing shows him slowing down at all. Moreover he reacts with surprise at the result. Granted, the scene is confusing enough that both interpretations are possible, which is kind of an indictment of its execution...
 
They were definitely trying to make this scene similar to their previous duel, but in volume 8 Guts was slashing through Griffith's saber, while here he's striking at him directly. And nothing shows him slowing down at all. Moreover he reacts with surprise at the result. Granted, the scene is confusing enough that both interpretations are possible, which is kind of an indictment of its execution...
Τhe impact of the strike is almost identical in both of the panels. What he was aiming the strike at seems unimportant, since he stopped both strikes. Besides, if you all are correct that means that Guts was willing to sacrifice Casca with that strike just to get to Griffith (Knowing that he saw him approach her). That is completely and undebatably out of character.

Could be that the artist did a bad job portraying the attack, but there is no doubt in my mind he wouldn't stop that strike knowing that he would harm her.
 

Aazealh

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What he was aiming the strike at seems unimportant, since he stopped both strikes.

Not really. In volume 8 he stops himself from splitting Griffith's head once he breaks his sword. Whereas here he rushes in specifically to cut him down. And nothing shows him trying to pull his blow... In fact I'll go ahead and say that if that's what they really meant to depict, they did a godawful job of it.

Besides, if you all are correct that means that Guts was willing to sacrifice Casca with that strike just to get to Griffith (Knowing that he saw him approach her). That is completely and undebatably out of character.

Oh, I completely agree that it doesn't make much sense. You can add that to the list of inconsistencies... Steel yourself, it's only going to grow from here on out...
 
Am I the only one having trouble seeing what's physically happening?

In this fight with Zodd I feel like I'm not even sure how he got behind him. Why does Guts suddenly panic and looked surprised?


I go back to previous fights and I can tell all the choreography from Miura's images.

I know the team is doing their best, and I'm very glad they are continuing the series. But, I am having trouble piecing together what is physically happening in the fight scenes.

The fight is indeed a bit difficult to follow, partly because they didn't establish the characters' positions clearly. The way I interpret it is Guts manoeuvring around Zodd by using the force of the second attack to propel him toward Griffith's direction, using the momentum from Zodd's blocked hit to dash forward towards Griffith. But the problem is that Zodd's second attack shows that he pushed Guts away, it did not sweep him inward.

If he did, Zodd would have appeared when the boy originally did (but he didn't). And if the boy emerged from the tree before him (which he did), then Zodd would have been lost, per Ep 357:

Griffith: Never lose sight of the person ahead of you!
Sonia: Hey, you two, if you take your eyes off, you'll get lost.
Mule: Get lost...?
...
Sonia: Yes! A person who doesn't have special senses like Lord Griffith or I do would get lost in endlessly dividing branches and might pop out into an unexpected place. If anything goes wrong, he might even end up in the sea or underground.

Would the part about how the time flows differently inside the island explains why it took time for Zodd to arrive from the perspective of the island's inhabitants, but from Zodd's perspective he was just seconds behind the boy/Griffith?
 
Bad idea. The more things they add that aren't directly from Miura, the less qualitative the result will be. And I'm repeating myself, but they're probably filling in the gaps quite a bit already. I don't believe the dialogue in the past three episodes was verbatim from Miura.
This is only a sense of an ending. I was feeling critical of the team for not meeting expectations when they released 365 & 366. Specifically the disruption of flow and feeling of chaos on the page. But I think now I’m understanding what it really means that they will only be illustrating what Kentaro Miura shared about the ending. Is this perspective wrong?
 
Would the part about how the time flows differently inside the island explains why it took time for Zodd to arrive from the perspective of the island's inhabitants, but from Zodd's perspective he was just seconds behind the boy/Griffith?
Oh damn, that's actually a really good idea I hadn't thought about. I'm not entirely sure if it would be accurate--I'm not sure time passes THAT differently on Skellig, otherwise it might seem to them like Puck was away for like a zillion years rather than the much shorter span of time Pack, Pikk, etc. thought he was. However, maybe the branches of the World Tree interact with the strange flow of time on the island in a way like you describe, which would allow Zodd to come in seconds after the MB when from the MB's perspective he was there for a few days. :schnoz:
 

Aazealh

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But those at the start of the manga aren't episodes per se...? I wonder if I should summon thee...

Monthly Animal House didn't label manga issues, and the numbering system they used was different. That said, for all intents and purposes "episode" is still a fine name for them. They can be seen as subdivisions of chapters and arcs, even though those didn't officially start until volume 14. The discrepancy is just a product of Berserk having started serialization in the late 80s. As for their equivalent in "standardized" episodes, it'd be 44, since they take up 4 volumes and 4/10th of volume 5.

Would the part about how the time flows differently inside the island explains why it took time for Zodd to arrive from the perspective of the island's inhabitants, but from Zodd's perspective he was just seconds behind the boy/Griffith?

I talked about this in the previous thread. The problem with this idea is that the island's altered time flow isn't that delineated, nor is it that rigid. For it to work like that, Zodd would have needed to be almost frozen in time just over the island, before descending on it, while the boy was already there. But the full moon on the island only lasts a few days versus one night on the outside, so it's not like seconds would stretch to over 24 hours. Besides, Zodd should have still been sensed up there in that case.

What would work is Zodd coming in a few hours after the boy, meaning that from the island's perspective, a day or more could have passed. However in that case, he couldn't have just followed him, and we're back to square one.

This is only a sense of an ending. I was feeling critical of the team for not meeting expectations when they released 365 & 366. Specifically the disruption of flow and feeling of chaos on the page. But I think now I’m understanding what it really means that they will only be illustrating what Kentaro Miura shared about the ending. Is this perspective wrong?

No, that's about right, except that in actuality it's more of a hybrid thing. If they really only drew what they knew, each episode would probably amount to five illustrations. I think they're interpreting the information they have in the way that makes the most sense to them, and then try to fill things in inconspicuously so that it forms a coherent story.

It is what it is, and to their credit I think it's incredible they're managing to do it in the first place. That being said, I find myself wishing they had chosen to release an illustrated summary instead, spending more time on fewer illustrations and conveying Miura's actual words (and sketches) to us. I also don't feel like their approach can (or should) go on for years on end. We'll see once the Elf island chapter is over, but the faster and more condensed they can make it, the better.
 
Monthly Animal House didn't label manga issues, and the numbering system they used was different. That said, for all intents and purposes "episode" is still a fine name for them. They can be seen as subdivisions of chapters and arcs, even though those didn't officially start until volume 14. The discrepancy is just a product of Berserk having started serialization in the late 80s. As for their equivalent in "standardized" episodes, it'd be 44, since they take up 4 volumes and 4/10th of volume 5.

I always wondered, with how the story was divided in chapters and arc after volume 13, how Miura would have divided/named the previous volumes.

Also I never understood if Miura named the "Black Swordsman" and the "Golden Age" arcs or if It was us fans that decided to refer to them with this naming
 
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Aazealh

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I always wondered, with how the story was divided in chapters and arc after volume 13, how Miura would have divided/named the previous volumes.

Also I never understood if Miura named the "Black Swordsman" and the "Golden Age" arcs or of It was as fans that decided to refer to them with this naming

Miura didn't formally name those arcs. Officially (i.e. in YA and the volumes) the first arc in the series is the Condemnation arc that begins in volume 14. Same thing for the Lost Children chapter.

If I wanted to be provocative, I'd argue that volumes 1 through 14 could just as well be labeled as the "Revenge arc", divided into the "Black Swordsman chapter" and the "Golden Age chapter". But in truth it doesn't really matter what we call them.
 
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