Berserk Community Re-Read: Volume 2 (current)

[Walter]

As requested here, starting Sunday, March 5—please begin posting your VOLUME 1 impressions! We'll discuss it here all month long.

To guide your review, try to include some of these things:

• What stuck out to you?
• Context for the big picture?
• What impressed you about how Miura revealed something or portrayed something?
• Any new discoveries for you?

@Bubby
@Imperivm97
@Judo
@Munch4Casca


Volume 2's re-read will begin April 2!

 

[Munch4Casca]

the art in the very first scene is phenomenal

 

[Parkus]

For some odd reason I find it weird how this was a Guts who didn't accept help from others nor care if they died or not, I'm so used to this current guts(before episodes 365-371)that I forgot how he used to be.

 

[Aazealh]

For some odd reason I find it weird how this was a Guts who didn't accept help from others nor care if they died or not, I'm so used to this current guts(before episodes 365-371)that I forgot how he used to be.

Guts cared if people died. He was harsh and callous in large part because he was pushing people away. There's a variety of reasons for that, including the fact that being around him was dangerous. For example he was shaken when Colette's corpse was possessed and he was forced to cut her down.

 

[Keratos]

Alright, just finished my re-read.
I'm obviously not gonna touch up on everything, cause that would be way too much.

So in terms of things that stuck out to me, I really liked how Guts' character was set up in this Volume, not only does it do a great job of making new readers become interested in knowing what made him the way he is, but his personality in this volume still makes sense.
In many manga the way some characters act in their first appearance compared to later, is completely contradictory, and not cause of character development, but because the author just hadn't figured out what to do with that character yet. So it's honestly impressive how Guts and Puck were written in this volume.
Guts was putting on an apathetic face, avoiding any sort of connection with other people, because he didn't want to lose any more people close to him.
And he's constantly saying he doesn't care about anyone other than himself, basically trying to convince himself to belive that lie.
I was curious if the reason Guts said he hates Elves was because of Chitch, but Miura definitely hadn't thought of her yet. Though it's nice it lines up
so well, even if it wasn't on purpose.

It's honestly very cool how many things line up well even from the first volume. For example the Snake Baron was a really good depiction of an Apostle, and all the things that were set up about Elves through Puck still hold true.
There were so many things were introduced in this volume, the Apostle, the Brand, the Behelit, the Demon Child, even Puck Spark was used for the first time here!
But the one that always surprises me the most, is the Godhand, that's mentioned once by Guts in the very first episode.

Obviously in terms of art, it's not nearly as good as the volumes that follow, but it's still really good. Especially the composition was something that
Miura was incredible at from the get-go. So many dynamic poses during fight scenes, and great paneling.

Of course I could've written much more for this volume, but it already feels like I wrote too much. Looking forward to the next volume re-read!

 

[Aazealh]

I was curious if the reason Guts said he hates Elves was because of Chitch, but Miura definitely hadn't thought of her yet. Though it's nice it lines up so well, even if it wasn't on purpose.

Actually, while Miura hadn't thought of Chich at the time (obviously), it did motivate him to create that flashback.

[2012 #12] The Spring Flower of Days Long Passed (1)
I always had a mind to draw the reason Guts doesn't like elves one day. With the release of the movie, I thought it's a good chance (to do it).

 

[Semi.L]

Rereading the first volume, what attracted me most was Guts's expression.
Although he is still childish, but the cold words and decisive killing, make people curious about his story.
New revelation: Puck is handsome when he's not a chestnut.
By the way, as a person who often has nightmares, I hate the narrow alleys that Guts walks.

 

[Patrick]

Always puts a smile on my face whenever I see Guts kill the apostle that killed Corkus in the Eclipse.

 

[BerserkDrifter]

I do wonder if Miura ever wished he could have changed the introduction of Berserk, considering all the events that happened in Guts' life up to this point, maybe he would re-envision the first few panels to where Guts would lure or be lured by the female apostle to a secluded location where he would kill her the moment he had his first chance instead of what actually happened.

For that matter, why does Guts ever let his guard down to the point where he has to face the apostle without his armor or Dragon Slayer? Is it because he doesn't know she's an apostle but that can't be because of his brand? Was it to spite her and make her think she lured another victim to his death before Guts revealed his second cannon?

All in all, a great first volume.

 

[Aazealh]

I do wonder if Miura ever wished he could have changed the introduction of Berserk, considering all the events that happened in Guts' life up to this point, maybe he would re-envision the first few panels to where Guts would lure or be lured by the female apostle to a secluded location where he would kill her the moment he had his first chance instead of what actually happened.

For that matter, why does Guts ever let his guard down to the point where he has to face the apostle without his armor or Dragon Slayer? Is it because he doesn't know she's an apostle but that can't be because of his brand? Was it to spite her and make her think she lured another victim to his death before Guts revealed his second cannon?

Miura never expressed regret for any part of Berserk, so I don't think he would have wanted to change it in retrospect. At least according to what he's said publicly.

As for why Guts needed to lure the apostle... It could just be that she was careful. She was clearly not a powerhouse and relied on her "womanly wiles" to find prey (unlike most apostles who just use brute strength). That was her modus operandi. Guts may have felt that he needed to play the part of a hapless chap to get her close enough that he could kill her off by surprise.

 

[Parkus]

I haven't had enough time to share the rest of my thoughts so here's the rest(thanks Aaz for letting me understand better). I found the skeleton part the most iconic moment for me as it always reminds me how badass Guts is. I find the huge singular panel of Guts slashing the skeletons from above the most iconic panel in my opinion. I miss when Guts fought actual soldiers rather than evil spirits and apostles since I like the dialogue the soldiers give each other when facing guts, I also somehow never noticed Puck used his blinding ability in this volume when I first read berserk so this reread helped me see new details like this one.

 

[Munch4Casca]

I just realised Puck may not have been gendered at the time this chapters were being released, he has some feminine characteristics in these earlier chapters. Feel free to correct me

Vargas is a legend bro when he dragged down the count that was satisfying af. Idk why he got sent to hell in the first place though. I think this is my favourite arc of Berserk, the characterisation of Guts is done just right. Also the other characters being nonexistent makes the dynamic between guts and puck more pure

Plus theresia, the count are both great characters, the count probably has the most “depth” to his character of any apostle besides maybe Rosine?, and Griffith obviously.

My favourite part of volume 1 in particular was probably the ending scenes with Vargas, not to say the snake count wasn’t good, he is awesome, but Guts and Puck dynamic is so good in these scenes with Vargas.

 

[Aazealh]

I miss when Guts fought actual soldiers rather than evil spirits and apostles since I like the dialogue the soldiers give each other when facing guts

Haha, that's a bit of an odd comment. It's volume 1 of the story, so it's hard to miss something already! Plus, Guts does fight humans a bunch throughout this volume (the Cobra apostle's thugs, then the Count's soldiers).

I just realised Puck may not have been gendered at the time this chapters were being released, he has some feminine characteristics in these earlier chapters. Feel free to correct me

No, Puck is male right from his introduction. He speaks using male pronouns.

the count probably has the most “depth” to his character of any apostle besides maybe Rosine?, and Griffith obviously.

Griffith isn't an apostle...

 

[Munch4Casca]

No, Puck is male right from his introduction. He speaks using male pronouns.

In the japanese version? Or did I miss something

 

[Aazealh]

In the japanese version?

Yes.

 

[cijhho123]

I've read episode 1: the black swordsman so far
The encounter with the female apostle is even more raw than I remembered, I can totally see why Miura sensei regretted it in retrospect.
Even though IMO it beatutifuly shows how poor Guts' mental state at that time in the story.

In his conversation with Puck Guts says "Anyone who dies because they get caught up in someone else's fight is a small fry who doesn't have the strength to survive in the first place". Like, is it directed to the now dead Band of the hawk members? I kind of understand where he's coming from because all of what he went through but its cold as hell.

Its very refreshing seeing the early style of the artwork, Guts is looking so young compare to the Lost Children chapter, and the panels where his face are completly dark except the eye are so epic!

 

[Aazealh]

I've read episode 1: the black swordsman so far
The encounter with the female apostle is even more raw than I remembered, I can totally see why Miura sensei regretted it in retrospect.

Like I just said a few posts above yours, Miura has never said he regretted it or any other part of Berserk. Don't make shit up.

In his conversation with Puck Guts says "Anyone who dies because they get caught up in someone else's fight is a small fry who doesn't have the strength to survive in the first place". Like, is it directed to the now dead Band of the hawk members? I kind of understand where he's coming from because all of what he went through but its cold as hell.

It's an attempt to insulate himself from feeling pain at the deaths of others. It is cold as hell, but his actual actions show it's just a façade.

 

[Domeniko]

I don't understand why people have such a huge problem with him doing the female apostle. I don't see a problem with it.

 

[Aazealh]

I don't understand why people have such a huge problem with him doing the female apostle.

Because Guts isn't a horndog, and he's very loyal to Casca in general. She's the only woman he's ever loved, and he goes to extreme lengths to save and protect her once he comes to his senses in volume 17. Therefore, they think this scene doesn't match really his character.

What they fail to consider is that when the series begins, Guts is far down a pretty dark path. He's left Casca behind in favor of pursuing a mindless revenge where he essentially roams the countryside looking for apostles. Like the title of the series indicates, he doesn't care what he has to do to achieve his goals, whether it's getting himself badly wounded or putting other people in danger. His encounter with the female apostle takes place in this context, before he even meets Puck, who slowly pulled him back towards the light. I view it as his absolute lowest point in the series, where he was on a trajectory to self-destruction.

It's not like he was looking for pleasure. He knew she was an apostle long in advance thanks to the pain in his brand. But he chose to play the part of a naive prey so that he could trap her. Given his feelings about apostles and the physical pain that being in their presence causes him, it must not have been a particularly great time for him. But he did it anyway just to kill one more monster. That he debased himself in this manner actually tells us a lot about the Black Swordsman, right from the get-go. That is a man who will go to any length necessary to kill an apostle. We see more of it in the rest of the arc, down to using Theresia as a shield so he could take a shot at the Count.

Of course, we also see him struggle with the choices he's faced with and the innocent deaths that result from them. We quickly learn that behind this cold and uncaring façade lies a deeply traumatized man, who's terribly alone and constantly hounded by his enemies. We see this inner conflict in the scenes with Colette, Vargas, Theresia and throughout his conversations with Puck. This culminates with the arc's ending, where he puts on a brave face in front of Theresia (partly, it seems, to bolster her will to hold on to life), but then cries with his back turned as she hurls abuse at him.

So in short, Guts' character arc during that first segment of the story is partly about his own development, but also in large part about letting the reader glimpse the complexity and nuance of his character. You get to see what drives him. Then the flashback is about making you understand what got him to that point. What could be so extreme that a decent man would become the Black Swordsman, a "monster-devouring monster".

 

[Domeniko]

Because Guts isn't a horndog, and he's very loyal to Casca in general. She's the only woman he's ever loved, and he goes to extreme lengths to save and protect her once he comes to his senses in volume 17. Therefore, they think this scene doesn't match really his character.

What they fail to consider is that when the series begins, Guts is far down a pretty dark path. He's left Casca behind in favor of pursuing a mindless revenge where he essentially roams the countryside looking for apostles. Like the title of the series indicates, he doesn't care what he has to do to achieve his goals, whether it's getting himself badly wounded or putting other people in danger. His encounter with the female apostle takes place in this context, before he even meets Puck, who slowly pulled him back towards the light. I view it as his absolute lowest point in the series, where he was on a trajectory to self-destruction.

It's not like he was looking for pleasure. He knew she was an apostle long in advance thanks to the pain in his brand. But he chose to play the part of a naive prey so that he could trap her. Given his feelings about apostles and the physical pain that being in their presence causes him, it must not have been a particularly great time for him. But he did it anyway just to kill one more monster. That he debased himself in this manner actually tells us a lot about the Black Swordsman, right from the get-go. That is a man who will go to any length necessary to kill an apostle. We see more of it in the rest of the arc, down to using Theresia as a shield so he could take a shot at the Count.

Of course, we also see him struggle with the choices he's faced with and the innocent deaths that result from them. We quickly learn that behind this cold and uncaring façade lies a deeply traumatized man, who's terribly alone and constantly hounded by his enemies. We see this inner conflict in the scenes with Colette, Vargas, Theresia and throughout his conversations with Puck. This culminates with the arc's ending, where he puts on a brave face in front of Theresia (partly, it seems, to bolster her will to hold on to life), but then cries with his back turned as she hurls abuse at him.

So in short, Guts' character arc during that first segment of the story is partly about his own development, but also in large part about letting the reader glimpse the complexity and nuance of his character. You get to see what drives him. Then the flashback is about making you understand what got him to that point. What could be so extreme that a decent man would become the Black Swordsman, a "monster-devouring monster".

Haha I'm so sorry man but I had to draw this out from you, you can convey everything so well. I agree and thats exactly why I see those who see it as a problem as surface level viewers, because they see sex and they think oh he just wanted to fuck.

 

[Lawliet]

Because Guts isn't a horndog, and he's very loyal to Casca in general. She's the only woman he's ever loved, and he goes to extreme lengths to save and protect her once he comes to his senses in volume 17. Therefore, they think this scene doesn't match really his character.

What they fail to consider is that when the series begins, Guts is far down a pretty dark path. He's left Casca behind in favor of pursuing a mindless revenge where he essentially roams the countryside looking for apostles. Like the title of the series indicates, he doesn't care what he has to do to achieve his goals, whether it's getting himself badly wounded or putting other people in danger. His encounter with the female apostle takes place in this context, before he even meets Puck, who slowly pulled him back towards the light. I view it as his absolute lowest point in the series, where he was on a trajectory to self-destruction.

It's not like he was looking for pleasure. He knew she was an apostle long in advance thanks to the pain in his brand. But he chose to play the part of a naive prey so that he could trap her. Given his feelings about apostles and the physical pain that being in their presence causes him, it must not have been a particularly great time for him. But he did it anyway just to kill one more monster. That he debased himself in this manner actually tells us a lot about the Black Swordsman, right from the get-go. That is a man who will go to any length necessary to kill an apostle. We see more of it in the rest of the arc, down to using Theresia as a shield so he could take a shot at the Count.

Of course, we also see him struggle with the choices he's faced with and the innocent deaths that result from them. We quickly learn that behind this cold and uncaring façade lies a deeply traumatized man, who's terribly alone and constantly hounded by his enemies. We see this inner conflict in the scenes with Colette, Vargas, Theresia and throughout his conversations with Puck. This culminates with the arc's ending, where he puts on a brave face in front of Theresia (partly, it seems, to bolster her will to hold on to life), but then cries with his back turned as she hurls abuse at him.

So in short, Guts' character arc during that first segment of the story is partly about his own development, but also in large part about letting the reader glimpse the complexity and nuance of his character. You get to see what drives him. Then the flashback is about making you understand what got him to that point. What could be so extreme that a decent man would become the Black Swordsman, a "monster-devouring monster".

I love this post. Another great one, Aaz. The parted I emboldened sums it up perfectly; it's the key phrase to this entire "problem".

If I can add anything to the above post it would be this: I've read a little about the issue of soldiers who suffer from combat trauma. The gist of matter is, to quote what I've read, that "trauma undoes character". The person who has gone through a traumatic event unravels; he or she is almost literally not the same person anymore. Judging their actions during such a period based on how they are like in "normal" times is, therefore, foolish and misguided. As Aaz said above, Guts is a deeply traumatized man at that point. His character was "undone" by the Eclipse. It took a long time and effort on his part and others for him to claw his way back to a semblance of what he used to be. Black Swordsman Guts isn't an edgy protagonist of a "dark" manga. The way he thinks and behaves has a basis in the way real humans can and do respond to trauma.

Miura understood human nature well, which is why his characters are so great. Because they're human.

 

[Domeniko]

I love this post. Another great one, Aaz. The parted I emboldened sums it up perfectly; it's the key phrase to this entire "problem".

If I can add anything to the above post it would be this: I've read a little about the issue of soldiers who suffer from combat trauma. The gist of matter is, to quote what I've read, that "trauma undoes character". The person who has gone through a traumatic event unravels; he or she is almost literally not the same person anymore. Judging their actions during such a period based on how they are like in "normal" times is, therefore, foolish and misguided. As Aaz said above, Guts is a deeply traumatized man at that point. His character was "undone" by the Eclipse. It took a long time and effort on his part and others for him to claw his way back to a semblance of what he used to be. Black Swordsman Guts isn't an edgy protagonist of a "dark" manga. The way he thinks and behaves has a basis in the way real humans can and do respond to trauma.

Miura understood human nature well, which is why his characters are so great. Because they're human.

Fans also often times misdirect their rage towards griffith when the fact is that nothing of griffith's emotional state remained after he was reincarnated, he became pure evil, so his actions past that point were not from the same man that they used to call comrade. It's an entirely different person.

 

[Judo]

I finished my reread of volume 1 yesterday. It has been at least 5 years since I read the manga, and back then I started my last reread at vol.15, because I've had read the golden age countless times before and wanted to start directly into the lost children-arc.

When I started reading vol.1 on saturday, I was painfully remembered about how awful the german translation of volumes 1 and 2 is. I'm just glad that they changed the translator with volume 3.

I have to admit that I was a little surprised at how good the artwork in these first chapters already is. In my memory it was all a little more "rough around the edges". But maybe my memory got volume 1 mixed up with the prototype at some point.

The only thing that seemed a bit off for me was that Guts' posture seemed a bit weird in a few panels while he was fighting. I got the impression that he was swinging the DS pretty effortlessly with one hand. In the later volumes, Miura imo did a better job in conveying how he has to use his whole body to work with the weight of his massive weapon.

Storywise I don't have much to add to the things that have already been said in this thread. I like how Guts is clearly portrayed as a troubled/conflicted character and that his "Badass"-attitude that so many people seem to like about the Black Swordsman-arc is just a facade to cope with his trauma. Of course Puck is a very important factor in showing this to us readers.

I'd really love to know how much detail of the story Miura already had in mind back then. Do you guys think he already knew that the Demon Child was Guts' son when he wrote those dream/delirium-scenes in vol.1?

 

[Walter]

I'd really love to know how much detail of the story Miura already had in mind back then. Do you guys think he already knew that the Demon Child was Guts' son when he wrote those dream/delirium-scenes in vol.1?

He's mentioned a few times in interviews that he didn't specifically plan for that, but often he keeps concepts open and then later it all works out.

"And also, the demon child that Casca gave birth to is going to become something of a key point — despite the fact that I didn’t even plan for it to be Casca’s baby when I first drew it." ... "That part was left open. Basically, I had planned that he’d have it done to him somehow by Griffith, and then a love story came into the picture, and taking that to its extreme just happened to fit together nicely with the climax. It’s not as though I had it planned from the start. And now it turns out that the demon child is similarly going to snap very usefully into place."

(From a 2000 interview between Miura and Yukari Fujimoto)

 

[A.C]

About two months ago I started reading the manga chronologically after not having read the manga all the way through for many years, starting with Guts' birth towards the end of Volume 3, making a brief stop right before Guts' first encounter with the Band of the Falcon in Volume 4 to read the "Spring Flowers of Distant Days" chapters in Volume 37, before resuming with the Golden Age and finally going back to Volume 1 after reading up to "He Who Hunts Dragons" chapter in Volume 14. My reason for doing this was due to curiosity in how it would all flow and what the experience might've been like if the Berserk Saga Anime project (or some other adaptation, such as a live-action one) had been 100% faithful but still started chronologically with the Golden Age.

Everything flowed well (including "Spring Flowers of Distant Days" apart from the way Gambino was drawn, but that is to be expected with the evolution of the art) up until Volume 1, which did have some slightly jarring parts.

I acknowledge that most of these jarring parts are due to the fact that the story is not meant to be read or experienced this chronological way, and that there is a gap of one whole year or two between "He Who Hunts Dragons" and the beginning of Volume 1, but I still figured I'd mention them even though some of the people here have already touched on a few of them.

The way Guts takes out the female apostle in the beginning of the volume did not actually seem strange to me at all because, the way I emerged myself in the story this time, I did not keep thinking of where the story was headed. If viewed chronologically, not knowing where the author intends to take Guts, and given how brief his romantic relationship with Casca actually was, I think most readers, if they experienced the story chronologically for their first time, would not necessarily find that particular scene jarring. It's more like, "so the trajectory of his character is going this way, huh?"

The one thing that was a bit jarring was how brief it was, considering how (from a chronogical reading) this female apostle had been built up and emphasized as a particular killer of important members of the Falcon, and been given just as much "screen time" as the Count and Rosine. So the whole encounter and slaying of this apostle goes by very fast, unceremoniously, and abrupt compared to the other early apostles - including the Snake Baron who we didn't even see kill an important member of the Falcons. Since female apostles are so rare, Rosine being the only other one we've seen Guts take down, I would've liked to have seen some more of this apostle or a slightly longer slaying sequence. But it's still cool the way it is. (On a side note, the way this apostle is handled in the Anime is even more confusing since we see even more of her in the third movie but then never even get to see Guts take her out at all in the 2016 continuation.)

A more jarring thing was Guts telling and yelling at Puck a few times "Don't touch me!" and "Don't you ever touch me..." which seemed like a reversal back to his pre-Band of the Falcon characterization. Considering he had no qualms about banging one of his enemies to take her out a few pages before, this seems a bit silly even in the context of the first episode alone.

Guts saying he don't like elves later on would've been jarring if not for the "Spring Flowers of Distant Days" addition in Volume 37, but it's still slightly inconsistent that Guts don't seem to know that what Puck is doing is healing him in the cell, being surprised that his pain is disappearing.

Another is the way Guts almost seem to mock people with sarcasm which contrasts with how serious and reserved he was during the Golden Age. It's not necessarily what he says that is the problem as the way he is drawn smirking in a cocky, provocative way. It's not that this cannot be explained by his need to protect his own sanity during his darkest times, but it does feel like a different Guts.

I've also pointed out this before, but when Guts says that nothing comes after death, "nothing at all", it seems inconsistent with what he's witnessed when it comes to the ghosts haunting him and all the other supernatural stuff.

The first volume is great though, very entertaining and for the most part remarkably consistent and up to the quality of the rest of the series.