Author Topic: Doubts about Gaiseric and Skull Knight.  (Read 7549 times)

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castrateme

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Doubts about Gaiseric and Skull Knight.
« on: December 24, 2002, 10:17:43 PM »
As far as I know, about 99.9% of Berserk fans (who know of the manga) have already assumed that Skull Knight was actually Gaiseric.  And granted, there is definitely some evidence that somewhat implies that (Similar looks, having been around for over 1000 years, etc.).

But has anyone ever thought that Skull Knight may not turn out to be Gaiseric at all?  What if he turns out to be someone completely different?  Knowing how Miura likes to give us big surprises, I think it could very well be a possibility.  But if he isn't Gaiseric, you've gotta wonder why Miura wrote the little story on Gaiseric...

Offline Walter

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Re:Doubts about Gaiseric and Skull Knight.
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2002, 11:29:47 PM »
As far as I know, about 99.9% of Berserk fans (who know of the manga) have already assumed that Skull Knight was actually Gaiseric.  And granted, there is definitely some evidence that somewhat implies that (Similar looks, having been around for over 1000 years, etc.).
You mean, all the overwhelming implied (IRREFUTABLE) evidence?
Quote
But has anyone ever thought that Skull Knight may not turn out to be Gaiseric at all?  What if he turns out to be someone completely different?  Knowing how Miura likes to give us big surprises, I think it could very well be a possibility.  But if he isn't Gaiseric, you've gotta wonder why Miura wrote the little story on Gaiseric...
What big suprises?
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

castrateme

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Re:Doubts about Gaiseric and Skull Knight.
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2002, 11:51:22 PM »
You mean, all the overwhelming implied (IRREFUTABLE) evidence?

Okay, maybe I underestimated how overwhelming it is... and I am leaning towards the idea that Skull Knight probably is Gaiseric, but I was just wondering if anybody stepped out of that train of thought and thought about it for a little while.

What big suprises?

There are three big surprises (Well... they were surprises to ME) in the Berserk story that come to my mind.  First, it when I saw Griffifth in his barely-alive state after he had been tortured after a year.  I had some glimmer of hope that he would survive better than he did.  I had NO IDEA he would end up in such an awful condition.

When I initially saw the Eclipse, I was surprised.  I knew that something bad was going to happen, as foreshadowed by Zodd and Skull Knight, but I had no idea it would be so tragic, sick, and disgusting as it was.

And to me, the biggest surprise of them all was when Femto was reborn as Griffifth in human form again.  I thought he was going to be a part of God Hand forever.

Offline Walter

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Re:Doubts about Gaiseric and Skull Knight.
« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2002, 12:17:18 AM »
All of those things were alluded to.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

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Re:Doubts about Gaiseric and Skull Knight.
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2003, 05:34:06 PM »
POSSIBLE SPOILER//SURPRISE!!! DARE TO READ!!!






















































































































































Skull Knight is.....






























































































































































Kentarou Miura...

Offline *Gyom*

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Re:Doubts about Gaiseric and Skull Knight.
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2003, 07:23:36 PM »
 :o
you sane ??

Offline krunkster

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Re:Doubts about Gaiseric and Skull Knight.
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2003, 04:21:25 AM »
POSSIBLE SPOILER//SURPRISE!!! DARE TO READ!!!






















































































































































Skull Knight is.....






























































































































































Kentarou Miura...





OMFG!!!
How could you give that away!!!
You've ruNed teh hole Storey....
useless [guts Guts Guts Guts gahtsu gast Guts Guts goats gates gitesu]

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Re:Doubts about Gaiseric and Skull Knight.
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2003, 03:47:35 PM »
^__^!! I knew you guys wouldn't be able to handle it >D

Offline Darok

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Re:Doubts about Gaiseric and Skull Knight.
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2003, 07:05:26 PM »
so... forgive me if this has been covered,  but one thing I had thought might be a possibilty was VOID being Gaiseric, and SK being his son (or some such), thus mirroring the Griffith==>Guts line.
"You dance up to the edge. I doubt that a demon would even be so human. Beware what you may discover, and be warned that discovering you aren't really one of us may come after you have done something that can't be taken back. Continue dancing but beware of where it may lead you. Remember, an angel is no more human than a demon."  - Annah Hutchings god of artists

Offline krunkster

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Re:Doubts about Gaiseric and Skull Knight.
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2003, 10:20:44 PM »
WEll I'm lazy and I posted this elsewhere but now you too can revel it it's glory:

Fact: Approximately 1000 years ago... (v10c6p118-128)
King Gasaeric ruled the land, and became known as the king of the dead, and Gasaeris the conqueror. He wore heavy armor, and a Skull Mask.

Fact: He held a wiseman in captivity... (v18c6p107)
This man was tortured in the dungeon, until one day angels came to save him.

Fact: Four Angels descended upon the Kingdom... (v10c6p122-123)
They were sent to punish Gasaeric, and the King disappeared.

Theory: The wiseman summoned the Angels... (c216p7)
Well he's a wiseman, probably meaning magician, and he's got the best motive. Also Schierke explains that the summon spell "Four Kings" brings forth four angels from the astral world into the real through a mind longing for salvation.

Fact: A huge Sacrifice occurs... (v10c6p128)
These sacrificed were thrown to the bottom of this tower, along with all other evidence of King Gasaeric's rule. Each of the bodies we see in the pit is marked by the brand of a sacrifice.

Theory: Void becomes the first God Hand... (Interview with Miura?)
If the interview is correct then Void is God Hand number one, and if every 216 years after that a new God Hand is born, then that brings us almost a thousand years forward to when Griffith becomes Femto. And since those corpses were marked with the brand, it's logical to assume a God Hand was born. Most likely the wiseman, sacrificed the people he was originally trying to protect with the angels summon, in order to exact revenge on Gasaeric.

-----------------------------------------------------

The above are all the facts and theories I know of that are at least based on actually facts. But popular consensus and circvmstantial evidence can take us much farther (and well out into nowhere if we let it )


Maybe: Skeleton Knight is branded... (v24c7p147)
Flora all but says this to a shadowy figure that could only be Skully himself.

Maybe: Gasaeric was branded...
Well he was there 1000 years ago, and he did torture the wiseman, who presumably made the sacrifice.

Conclusion: Gasaeric became the Skeleton Knight...
Gasaeric wears the skeleton armor, Skully wears the skeleton armor... I mean come on! Seriously though, I think it's safe to say The wiseman made the sacrifice and became Void, Gasaeric escaped, but was branded. He put on his armor and began plotting against Void, while gaining power.
useless [guts Guts Guts Guts gahtsu gast Guts Guts goats gates gitesu]

Offline Smith

Re:Doubts about Gaiseric and Skull Knight.
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2003, 07:23:41 AM »
WEll I'm lazy and I posted this elsewhere but now you too can revel it it's glory:

Fact: Approximately 1000 years ago... (v10c6p118-128)
King Gasaeric ruled the land, and became known as the king of the dead, and Gasaeris the conqueror. He wore heavy armor, and a Skull Mask.

Fact: He held a wiseman in captivity... (v18c6p107)
This man was tortured in the dungeon, until one day angels came to save him.

Fact: Four Angels descended upon the Kingdom... (v10c6p122-123)
They were sent to punish Gasaeric, and the King disappeared.

Theory: The wiseman summoned the Angels... (c216p7)
Well he's a wiseman, probably meaning magician, and he's got the best motive. Also Schierke explains that the summon spell "Four Kings" brings forth four angels from the astral world into the real through a mind longing for salvation.

Fact: A huge Sacrifice occurs... (v10c6p128)
These sacrificed were thrown to the bottom of this tower, along with all other evidence of King Gasaeric's rule. Each of the bodies we see in the pit is marked by the brand of a sacrifice.

Theory: Void becomes the first God Hand... (Interview with Miura?)
If the interview is correct then Void is God Hand number one, and if every 216 years after that a new God Hand is born, then that brings us almost a thousand years forward to when Griffith becomes Femto. And since those corpses were marked with the brand, it's logical to assume a God Hand was born. Most likely the wiseman, sacrificed the people he was originally trying to protect with the angels summon, in order to exact revenge on Gasaeric.

-----------------------------------------------------

The above are all the facts and theories I know of that are at least based on actually facts. But popular consensus and circvmstantial evidence can take us much farther (and well out into nowhere if we let it )


Maybe: Skeleton Knight is branded... (v24c7p147)
Flora all but says this to a shadowy figure that could only be Skully himself.

Maybe: Gasaeric was branded...
Well he was there 1000 years ago, and he did torture the wiseman, who presumably made the sacrifice.

Conclusion: Gasaeric became the Skeleton Knight...
Gasaeric wears the skeleton armor, Skully wears the skeleton armor... I mean come on! Seriously though, I think it's safe to say The wiseman made the sacrifice and became Void, Gasaeric escaped, but was branded. He put on his armor and began plotting against Void, while gaining power.


hmmm... good observation, i already believe that Skullknight was Gaiseric 1000 years ago
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Offline roberto999

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Re:Doubts about Gaiseric and Skull Knight.
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2003, 08:12:56 AM »
Fact: Four Angels descended upon the Kingdom... (v10c6p122-123)
They were sent to punish Gasaeric, and the King disappeared.

Theory: The wiseman summoned the Angels... (c216p7)
Well he's a wiseman, probably meaning magician, and he's got the best motive. Also Schierke explains that the summon spell "Four Kings" brings forth four angels from the astral world into the real through a mind longing for salvation.

Fact: A huge Sacrifice occurs... (v10c6p128)
These sacrificed were thrown to the bottom of this tower, along with all other evidence of King Gasaeric's rule. Each of the bodies we see in the pit is marked by the brand of a sacrifice.

Theory: Void becomes the first God Hand... (Interview with Miura?)
If the interview is correct then Void is God Hand number one, and if every 216 years after that a new God Hand is born, then that brings us almost a thousand years forward to when Griffith becomes Femto. And since those corpses were marked with the brand, it's logical to assume a God Hand was born. Most likely the wiseman, sacrificed the people he was originally trying to protect with the angels summon, in order to exact revenge on Gasaeric.

--------------------------------------------
Here I don't follow you. You are telling the wise man summoned the four kings to destroy Gaiseric kindom  and they did , ok. Then why the wise man should have afterwards done a sacrifice to the godhand, since Gaiseric kindom was already destroyed,and apparently the godhand and the four kings don't seem to be the best pals in the world?
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Offline Mizar

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Re:Doubts about Gaiseric and Skull Knight.
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2003, 09:35:58 AM »
Here I don't follow you. You are telling the wise man summoned the four kings to destroy Gaiseric kindom  and they did , ok. Then why the wise man should have afterwards done a sacrifice to the godhand, since Gaiseric kindom was already destroyed,and apparently the godhand and the four kings don't seem to be the best pals in the world?

Good question, but there wasn't even a Godhand back then. I thought Idea came up with the idea of the Godhand at that time. And he probably created the very first eclipse for the wise man (for that reason).
But to answer your question, perhaps the four Kings couldn't fully destroy Gaiserics empire? So allthough the wise man didn't want to he was forced to listen to the offer from the dark side now.

[edit]
Wait a minute, the place where the people were sacrificed was a completely different place from where the wise man was held captive. It couldn't have happened at the same time! And there are some other questions rising to me as well:
- How did Gaiseric become a sacrifice while he wasn't exactly a friend to the wise man?
- If 1080 years ago the wise man became the first Godhand Void, and every 216 years after that a new Godhand was born, that means that Femto was Godhand number 6. Where's the missing Godhand? (I know this has been mentioned before)
[/edit]
« Last Edit: April 04, 2003, 11:13:26 AM by Mizar »

Offline Mitsu_dunDee

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Re:Doubts about Gaiseric and Skull Knight.
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2003, 02:42:45 PM »

- If 1080 years ago the wise man became the first Godhand Void, and every 216 years after that a new Godhand was born, that means that Femto was Godhand number 6. Where's the missing Godhand? (I know this has been mentioned before)


And maybe the fifth angel reborn in human shape every 216 1/12 years.
Given that they were 4 at the beginning ....

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Re:Doubts about Gaiseric and Skull Knight.
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2003, 03:08:58 PM »
As far as I know, about 99.9% of Berserk fans (who know of the manga) have already assumed that Skull Knight was actually Gaiseric.  And granted, there is definitely some evidence that somewhat implies that (Similar looks, having been around for over 1000 years, etc.).

But has anyone ever thought that Skull Knight may not turn out to be Gaiseric at all?  What if he turns out to be someone completely different?  Knowing how Miura likes to give us big surprises, I think it could very well be a possibility.  But if he isn't Gaiseric, you've gotta wonder why Miura wrote the little story on Gaiseric...

Well, indicate some other possible characters that Skullknight could have been :)

Offline krunkster

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Re:Doubts about Gaiseric and Skull Knight.
« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2003, 04:05:23 PM »
Wait a minute, the place where the people were sacrificed was a completely different place from where the wise man was held captive. It couldn't have happened at the same time! [/edit]

Really?  Oh yeah... well what were the two places again?
The tower of rebirth is where morgus tell's the story and the tower of genji is the one next to Midland's castle?  The twin towers?
I'm lost...
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Offline Smith

Re:Doubts about Gaiseric and Skull Knight.
« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2003, 04:25:44 AM »

- How did Gaiseric become a sacrifice while he wasn't exactly a friend to the wise man?

Well, maybe he wasnt sacrifice in the 1st place at all, there wasnt any indication that the brand was on his body.



- If 1080 years ago the wise man became the first Godhand Void, and every 216 years after that a new Godhand was born, that means that Femto was Godhand number 6. Where's the missing Godhand? (I know this has been mentioned before)

I m sure there is some calculation error, If a godhand were to born every 216 yrs, Then Void, who was assumed to be the 1st god hand, was suppose to be born 864 yrs ago. If that was the case, it mean that the existence of god hand have nothing to do with the downfall of Gaiseric empire!  
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Offline Boonki

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Re:Doubts about Gaiseric and Skull Knight.
« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2003, 02:57:46 PM »
Wait wait... how about this... someone mentioned there was no such thing as the 4 kings at the time of the first blood moon sacrafice party.  So what if there were 4 kings, created by Idea for this very occassion... what if they were Skully, Zodd, and two others that maybe haven't been introduced yet or have been destroyed since.

Okay, and yeah, Gaiseric wore that armor... but maybe the wise man, who despised Gaiseric, took his armor after the sacrafice for himself.

Oooh, and if Skully is really branded, He's a skeleton warrior!  Where can we even see any flesh to find the brand?

And and... umm... okay, I'm done I guess  :-[
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Offline namayias

Re:Doubts about Gaiseric and Skull Knight.
« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2003, 08:00:35 PM »
your speculation is ignoring many key facts. first zodd has only been around for around 300 years.  He cannot be a king 1000 years ago if he's only been around for 300. He can't be a godhand. If he were why would he be demoted to a mere apostle and then serve griffith? Idea influences the conscience of man to manipulate fate.  Creating a godhand out of nothing for the sole purpose to create a new godhand doesn't seem to serve much purpose and seems a waste for idea to even do so.  I think you're taking tooo many elements and mixing them all up to create speculation.

Offline Majin Tenshi

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Re:Doubts about Gaiseric and Skull Knight.
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2003, 09:37:55 PM »
Zodd has alterior motives.  And hes been known for 300 years.  He could have been around before then.  
Ok, so I leave and come back....

Offline namayias

Re:Doubts about Gaiseric and Skull Knight.
« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2003, 01:40:03 AM »
well I am pretty sure zodd says in the manga something about him being around for 300 years.

Offline Boonki

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Re:Doubts about Gaiseric and Skull Knight.
« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2003, 02:44:46 AM »
I never recall them having a specific age on Zodd... and Zodd, in my opinion, is very different from the other apostles.  For one, he's been hanging out since the beginning of Griffith's rise to power.  I'm in agreement that Zodd has an investment in this whole deal.  His role has been much more significant than any other "apostle" at this point...  I quote apostle because I'm still not sure about him being one.  Yes, some of my post was just pure speculation, but this is where pure speculation is supposed to be posted, right?  Oh, and namayias said "creating a godhand out of nothing for the sole purpose to create a new godhand doesn't seem to serve much purpose..." well, what was that line talking about the wise man and the 4 kings coming down... if we are assuming that this wise man in the old tale is Void, then who were the 4 kings?  The fact is we don't know if 4 Godhand were already there before this wise man became a new godhand, or if there were just 4 "kings"... or just something that helped destroy the Gaiseric empire.  Why is that not feasible?  The fact is, there is mention of 4 kings before the 1000 year period.  And just back to the Zodd thing really fast... Zodd is just there too much, has too much info, has too much background with Skully, and talks way too much about the USO.  I don't know why people get so uptight about making speculations, especially on the speculation board, lol.
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Re:Doubts about Gaiseric and Skull Knight.
« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2003, 03:25:45 AM »
I believe Miura said Zoddo was an Apostle.

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Re:Doubts about Gaiseric and Skull Knight.
« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2003, 03:29:51 AM »
Where?
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Re:Doubts about Gaiseric and Skull Knight.
« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2003, 03:49:58 AM »
In an interview, but, I didn't read it myself. Still, there's nothing in the manga that suggests he's anything more than an Apostle. Wild speaks to him as if they are peers, so unless Wild wasn't an Apostle either...

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