Attention!! Wild ideas ahead...

Fishbomb

Fear the slightly white swordsman!
((moved this here from the 'forgiveness' thread...))

Everyone forget something : Griffith never died!Sure when he first met Idea he was not at his best, but he was alive and no one killed him. He was simply trasfomed in Femto. In a way it was the King size version of the trasfomation of the everyday apostle. and so we can presume that the human part of Griffith lived on.If you do not believe me ask Caska if it was a spectre that raped her.So the question is instead: why "resurect " (or "give rebirt" )a man who was alive?Why Grifith did not simply use his powers to assume is old human guise and walk again among us? It is a simple feat for lesser apostles why a major one , or call it a godhand if you prefer, should not be able?
AGH! I hadn't even thought of that... *smacks forehead* You are so right... that means that there can only be one reason for the 'rebirth'. To inhabit a body that is not controlled by the godhand. To be free.

*ponders* okay... time for some wild speculation adn what if's here:

What if the reason Griffith was reborn, was to gain a freedom from the godhand that he had not had before? We have not seen them since...

What if the reason Griffith was reborn was to be reborn in a body 'outside' casualty? The foetus should be dead. it's fate should have been to die with casca. It should be dead... but is not. And what's more... it's got Gatts for a father, the one man so far to really amaze most of the 'immortal' onlookers.

What if the powers Griffith exhibits are not those that remains from his time as Femto? What if they belong to the foetus. Gatts and casca's child. With Sonya and Shierke we have seen that 'normal' people can have powers too... can anyone guess what a child twisted by being at ground zero in the ceremony could exhibit?

What if Griffith's goal is not his own kingdom, but to bring down Idea itself, so that he truly can accomplish his dream? He always was willing to sacrifice himself... and can anyone imagine a greater sacrifice than transforming himself to Femto? Now that I've read 83, his looks are pretty omnious at times.

What if the reason he's gathering a 'monster' army is to have them all under 'control'? When they have helped him win his battles, then he'd kill them off in one fell swoop. Bingo. No more idea scum to walk the earth. It would be a typical Griffith tactic... and more of a reason not to associate himself with them.

What if Griffith really can talk to spirits now? The rumours about the next issue seems to indicate that, and then perhaps
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Everyone forget something : Griffith never died!Sure when he first met Idea he was not at his best, but he was alive and no one killed him. He was simply trasfomed in Femto. In a way it was the King size version of the trasfomation of the everyday apostle. and so we can presume that the human part of Griffith lived on.If you do not believe me ask Caska if it was a spectre that raped her.So the question is instead: why "resurect " (or "give rebirt" )a man who was alive?Why Grifith did not simply use his powers to assume is old human guise and walk again among us? It is a simple feat for lesser apostles why a major one , or call it a godhand if you prefer, should not be able?
Read what Skullknight says in volume 18, last chapter.

A being of heavenly spheres (God Hand) can inhabit a body of flesh only once every 1000 years. In short, God Hand are all powerful over-seers of fate, but they arent flesh, nor are they apostles. They are ethereal. They cant simply transform into a human if they want to. Not without the ceremony.
 

Kenoh-Sama

"What is love? Not that I want some or anythi
((moved this here from the 'forgiveness' thread...))


AGH! I hadn't even thought of that... *smacks forehead* You are so right... that means that there can only be one reason for the 'rebirth'. To inhabit a body that is not controlled by the godhand. To be free.

*ponders* okay... time for some wild speculation adn what if's here:

What if the reason Griffith was reborn, was to gain a freedom from the godhand that he had not had before? We have not seen them since...

What if the reason Griffith was reborn was to be reborn in a body 'outside' casualty? The foetus should be dead. it's fate should have been to die with casca. It should be dead... but is not. And what's more... it's got Gatts for a father, the one man so far to really amaze most of the 'immortal' onlookers.

What if the powers Griffith exhibits are not those that remains from his time as Femto? What if they belong to the foetus. Gatts and casca's child. With Sonya and Shierke we have seen that 'normal' people can have powers too... can anyone guess what a child twisted by being at ground zero in the ceremony could exhibit?

What if Griffith's goal is not his own kingdom, but to bring down Idea itself, so that he truly can accomplish his dream? He always was willing to sacrifice himself... and can anyone imagine a greater sacrifice than transforming himself to Femto? Now that I've read 83, his looks are pretty omnious at times.

What if the reason he's gathering a 'monster' army is to have them all under 'control'? When they have helped him win his battles, then he'd kill them off in one fell swoop. Bingo. No more idea scum to walk the earth. It would be a typical Griffith tactic... and more of a reason not to associate himself with them.

What if Griffith really can talk to spirits now? The rumours about the next issue seems to indicate that, and then perhaps
I've always seen Femto as the "awakened" version of Griffith. I've never seen them as two different entities. Other then their phsyical differences I always saw them as the same person.

As for Griffith being free from Godhand it's not going to happen. There is a grand scheme being set in motion right now. It will not end with Griffith but the end will be set up by Griffith. He's being manipulated. Maybe to prepare the coming of Idea to Earth? Maybe Idea will use Griffith's body? Perhaps Idea wants to be apart of the humanity he's been "serving".

Griffith himself is not able to stop Idea. Idea created him technically. Guts is the only one who can disrupt Idea's flow.
 

Fishbomb

Fear the slightly white swordsman!
Read what Skullknight says in volume 18, last chapter.

A being of heavenly spheres (God Hand) can inhabit a body of flesh only once every 1000 years. In short, God Hand are all powerful over-seers of fate, but they arent flesh, nor are they apostles. They are ethereal. They cant simply transform into a human if they want to. Not without the ceremony.
Agh! sakana no baka *groans* I had forgotten all about that *grins*

oh well, it was fun to just rave away for a moment or two...
 

Griffith

My posts are better.
I've always seen Femto as the "awakened" version of Griffith. I've never seen them as two different entities. Other then their phsyical differences I always saw them as the same person.
Yeah, but Femto is Griffith demonized. He is Griffith wrapped up and corrupted by negative feelings (his own and the rest of mankinds). I don’t think they are totally different entities, but I don’t think they are the same either.

Griffith himself is not able to stop Idea. Idea created him technically. Guts is the only one who can disrupt Idea's flow.
Through Griffith, Guts will be the most disruptive though.

-Griffith

P.S. The Beast is made only of Guts negative feelings, God hand technically had nothing to do with it's creation, now that’s scary. I can’t wait to see the look on the face of first Apostle that has to face THE BEAST. ;D
 

Kenoh-Sama

"What is love? Not that I want some or anythi
Yeah, but Femto is Griffith demonized. He is Griffith wrapped up and corrupted by negative feelings (his own and the rest of mankinds).  I don’t think they are totally different entities, but I don’t think they are the same either.

Through Griffith, Guts will be the most disruptive though.

-Griffith

P.S. The Beast is made only of Guts negative feelings, God hand technically had nothing to do with it's creation, now that’s scary. I can’t wait to see the look on the face of first Apostle that has to face THE BEAST. ;D
I don't know about the whole demonized thing. They could be angels for all I know. It's like being pre-disposed to being evil because he's a demon. My religious beliefs are quite rare so angels and demons don't hold much weight to me as I believe that angels and demons (Which I think are the same) made concious choices. But that's a whole other can of worms. That being said I like the "awakened" aspect more as he was shown and did see the light. He fully accepted that sacrifices must be made and there is no point in crying over it. Before he was the empty Griffith, now he is the complete Griffith.
 

roberto999

The Black Chick of Darkness
Well instead I like to rave on. To me those "etheral beings" seems too much of flesh or to put it like would say a old cimmerian friend of mine it is flesh that you can cleave,and they enjoy to do it too much notably two: Griffith with deeds Slan with words. Again my blueeyed friend of mine tell me that he ecountered many like them in taverns during his mercenaries and thieving days. And he knows about real demons more than Gutts.The sakana no bana... mmm....perharps Skully was looking in a mirror when he said so. Perharps there are other etheral beings whom we  do not know nothing. Oh and where is the body of Griffith if he really ascended he should have left it lifeless at the site of the massacre (not  this site you dummy). And how was supposed Caska to give birth if for every purpose she was supposed to die  with Gutts during the cerimony. It was old skully, he always, that saved them....
 

Griffith

My posts are better.
I don't know about the whole demonized thing. They could be angels for all I know. It's like being pre-disposed to being evil because he's a demon.
I was just using demon for lack of a better word (after all, they are referred to as both demons and angels anyway). But, yes, whatever you to call them, I think creatures of God Hand have a predisposition towards “evil” because they have human desires and unlimited power, but no conscious or accountability. To paraphrase Slan, in reference to Apostles; they are given a new soul that doesn’t know sorrow or despair. That’s why I don’t see how Griffith and Femto can be EXACTLY the same, even if Femto is Griffith’s complete ethereal equivalent, he’s still strictly ethereal. What is a human without the limitations of the physical body and mind; without mortality, weakness, fear and feelings? That’s why I can’t look at them as the completely same entity, because they are different types of entities in the first place. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not trying to clean Griffith’s slate or anything stupid like that, Griffith isn’t absolved from responsibility for Femto’s actions, I’m just saying that Griffith the man is different from Griffith the God by the respective nature of those beings.

They have different names for cryin’ out loud!! ;)

That being said I like the "awakened" aspect more as he was shown and did see the light. He fully accepted that sacrifices must be made and there is no point in crying over it.
I believe in this awakening too, except I don't attribute it to his transformation into Femto.

Before he was the empty Griffith, now he is the complete Griffith.
I think it’s the opposite.

-Griffith

P.S. Your turn. :)
 

roberto999

The Black Chick of Darkness
((moved this here from the 'forgiveness' thread...))


AGH! I hadn't even thought of that... *smacks forehead* You are so right... that means that there can only be one reason for the 'rebirth'. To inhabit a body that is not controlled by the godhand. To be free.

*ponders* okay... time for some wild speculation adn what if's here:

What if the reason Griffith was reborn, was to gain a freedom from the godhand that he had not had before? We have not seen them since...

What if the reason Griffith was reborn was to be reborn in a body 'outside' casualty? The foetus should be dead. it's fate should have been to die with casca. It should be dead... but is not. And what's more... it's got Gatts for a father, the one man so far to really amaze most of the 'immortal' onlookers.

What if the powers Griffith exhibits are not those that remains from his time as Femto? What if they belong to the foetus. Gatts and casca's child. With Sonya and Shierke we have seen that 'normal' people can have powers too... can anyone guess what a child twisted by being at ground zero in the ceremony could exhibit?

What if Griffith's goal is not his own kingdom, but to bring down Idea itself, so that he truly can accomplish his dream? He always was willing to sacrifice himself... and can anyone imagine a greater sacrifice than transforming himself to Femto? Now that I've read 83, his looks are pretty omnious at times.

What if the reason he's gathering a 'monster' army is to have them all under 'control'? When they have helped him win his battles, then he'd kill them off in one fell swoop. Bingo. No more idea scum to walk the earth. It would be a typical Griffith tactic... and more of a reason not to associate himself with them.

What if Griffith really can talk to spirits now? The rumours about the next issue seems to indicate that, and then perhaps
hypotheses (it was tough that one, if i had not my trusty dictionary...)valid all, but I keep wondering...while I have not the last issues I seem understand that a sort of deformed creature follow them. And if the whole show had the purpose to make believe that Griffith was resurected? What if the one the we believe to be Griffith is not Griffith at all? What if the real Griffith has no longer Griffith face?
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
You can what-if til you're blue in the face, but whats your point?

Griffith not being Griffith? First of all where do you get this idea? Second of all, whats your point?
 

roberto999

The Black Chick of Darkness
i seriously tried to get your point... no way.

italian huh?    :-X


i'm sorry i just don't get it.
It is really a wild idea but it goes like that: Caska shuold be able to tell her son from her rapist and if the two happen to be the same person she should be at least a little afraid of this person. Instead she seems not afraid of Griffith. So i suspect that perhaps very perhaps, the one with the aspect of Griffith is really her son and the deformed creature that I only saw in scans is the REAL Griffith
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
...are you trying to say that the Demon Child is Griffith and Griffith reborn is the demon child...?
 

roberto999

The Black Chick of Darkness
Something like that, and, while we are "chatting",  about the etnic slurs, that here seems to score high on the backbiting meter I don't remember to have ever make any, so I will be very gratefull to have the kindness returned. Thank you all.
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Roberto, have you seen chapter 173? If not, observe:

Basically what Im getting at, is that its already been confirmed that they are one and the same.
 

trapped_soul

"This is it. It's over."
, that here seems to score high on the backbiting meter I don't remember to have ever make any, so I will be very gratefull to have the kindness returned. Thank you all.
huh? i just didn't know what you're talking about... didn't mean to be scathing.
 

Kenoh-Sama

"What is love? Not that I want some or anythi
I was just using demon for lack of a better word (after all, they are referred to as both demons and angels anyway).  But, yes, whatever you to call them, I think creatures of God Hand have a predisposition towards “evil” because they have human desires and unlimited power, but no conscious or accountability. To paraphrase Slan, in reference to Apostles; they are given a new soul that doesn’t know sorrow or despair. That’s why I don’t see how Griffith and Femto can be EXACTLY the same, even if Femto is Griffith’s complete ethereal equivalent, he’s still strictly ethereal.  What is a human without the limitations of the physical body and mind; without mortality, weakness, fear and feelings? That’s why I can’t look at them as the completely same entity, because they are different types of entities in the first place.  Don’t get me wrong, I’m not trying to clean Griffith’s slate or anything stupid like that, Griffith isn’t absolved from responsibility for Femto’s actions, I’m just saying that Griffith the man is different from Griffith the God by the respective nature of those beings.

They have different names for cryin’ out loud!! ;)

I believe in this awakening too, except I don't attribute it to his transformation into Femto.

I think it’s the opposite.

-Griffith

P.S. Your turn. :)
Morning. AAAHHHHHhhhh *YAWN*

Different names don't mean much bro'. God, Satan, all have several names but are the same entity. People call me Carlos. Why? Because I "Look" like a Carlos. That's not my name. Racist fucking people man....

BACK to FEMTO :)

When I mean enlightened... I mean ... remember when Griffith came to his realization that Guts was the only thing that ever made him lose track of his dream? When he had that epiphany it opened the floodgates of his mind. It was all clear to him. That fog had been lifted off his mind and spirit. It all came together for him. When that happened he became Femto. The physical transformation is just window dressing. He became enlightened. He became his own purpose, he became his own god. He was complete, whole. Anything that was an obstrction in. Griffith in a sense became this "Ideal" human. Perfect, unflawed and confident (I use Ideal in quotation because not every one agree's with what's Ideal. But in some circles it is Ideal). I see them as one in the same. Femto knew Guts and Casca when he saw them. He still had the animosity against Guts. He remembered everything. His (Griffith's) essence remained even when he was a god. He is complete. Femto completed his circle to become whole.
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
I disagree. However, I do still believe that Femto and Griffith are the same. Griffith wasnt Femto until he talked to Idea, and became Femto...

Check out volume 11, page 17. Oh wait whats this? A smiling Griffith? No wait, isnt that supposed to be a SMILING FEMTO? Sorry but thats still Griffith in my book. Another example is page 156 of volume 12, just when Guts lets go of Griffiths hand, and falls down the "hand". That expression that Griffith has, also is not yet Femto.

You are half-right, Kenoh-sama. Griffith was beginning to see the hints of what he was to become, and knew that something had to be done...But he wasnt ready to give up everything until he went through the eclipse.
 

Kenoh-Sama

"What is love? Not that I want some or anythi
I disagree. However, I do still believe that Femto and Griffith are the same. Griffith wasnt Femto until he talked to Idea, and became Femto...

Check out volume 11, page 17. Oh wait whats this? A smiling Griffith? No wait, isnt that supposed to be a SMILING FEMTO? Sorry but thats still Griffith in my book. Another example is page 156 of volume 12, just when Guts lets go of Griffiths hand, and falls down the "hand". That expression that Griffith has, also is not yet Femto.

You are half-right, Kenoh-sama. Griffith was beginning to see the hints of what he was to become, and knew that something had to be done...But he wasnt ready to give up everything until he went through the eclipse.
Oh he is Griffith. No question. Same persona. Like I said before, Griffith is now complete. And from the recent chapters the Griffith appeal has been amplified.
 

roberto999

The Black Chick of Darkness
Roberto, have you seen chapter 173? If not, observe:


Basically what Im getting at, is that its already been confirmed that they are one and the same.
No. I didn't and I thank you for showing it to me.
 
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