Becchi (Count's beherit carried by Guts), and it's final purpose

[Goat]

I'd like to hear your theories on the final use that Becchi will have in Berserk.

Main points that we know are:

• generally speaking, a beherit's purpose is to take someone to the God Hand
• Guts got this beherit a lot of time ago in the story
• it seems to have formed a strong connection with Puck - which is the one giving him the Becchi naming
• it reacted to Slan's presence
• Guts got told that he may be simply carrying it, meaning that someone else could eventually use it

I don't have my theory to share on this topic - I'm honestly completely out of ideas on the actual use of it, but I have the feeling that specific behelit would cover a major role in the final part of the story. I'd be glad to hear yours!

 

[TheItCrow]

Puck's influence is changing the default behaviour of this specific Beherit, that's my guess at least. I think Aazeahl mentioned this before as well, but I can't find the thread (edit: found it).

Your guess is as good as mine as to what that actually means. If it would have indeed changed its behaviour, maybe they would have been able to use it like SK uses his sword to reach deep into the astral world? Use it to escape from somewhere?

 

[Aazealh]

I'd like to hear your theories on the final use that Betchi will have in Berserk.

Just for info, Becchi or even Becchee (from Beherit+Cheese) would probably be a better spelling for it (ベッチィー in Japanese).

I don't have my theory to share on this topic - I'm honestly completely out of ideas on the actual use of it, but I have the feeling that specific behelit would cover a major role in the final part of the story.

As I've been saying for years, I don't think this beherit was meant to be used in the traditional manner, with someone just becoming an apostle. That wouldn't be interesting at all, nor would it make sense at that point in the story. Instead I think it would have had a unique and novel role. With regards to Puck's influence on it, I explored the way that coud work in this thread.

Needless to say, I have ideas for ways it could possibly play out, but I'm not sharing them at the moment.

 

[Ninja]

it seems to have formed a strong connection with Puck

idk why everyone is treating this piece of information as if it's important. Puck is a child who likes to play and he used it as a toy, what's the big deal?

 

[Aazealh]

idk why everyone is treating this piece of information as if it's important. Puck is a child who likes to play and he used it as a toy, what's the big deal?

Puck is an elf, not a child. He might be older than Guts for all we know. And that's why his relationship to the beherit matters: because he's an elf. Beherits are controlled by the Idea of Evil through causality. But I believe elves are outside the purview of "the god created by man", which leads me to theorize that Puck's constant interactions with the beherit could weaken or even sever that connection to its "master". I linked to a thread where I expound on this in the post right above yours.

 

[Ninja]

Puck is an elf, not a child. He might be older than Guts for all we know. And that's why his relationship to the beherit matters: because he's an elf. Beherits are controlled by the Idea of Evil through causality. But I believe elves are outside the purview of "the god created by man", which leads me to theorize that Puck's constant interactions with the beherit could weaken or even sever that connection to its "master". I linked to a thread where I expound on this in the post right above yours.

Puck once hinted that Skull Knight might be an elf. Could he have interacted with his Beherit like Puck does which might have weakened or severed its connection to its "master"? Maybe that what eventually let him use it in a non-traditional way to make his sword? Makes me wonder—can only elves use Beherits like that? Hmm.

And I will check that post. Thx!

 

[Aazealh]

Puck once hinted that Skull Knight might be an elf. Could he have interacted with his Beherit like Puck does which might have weakened or severed its connection to its "master"? Maybe that what eventually let him use it in a non-traditional way to make his sword?

What Puck said is that the Skull Knight had an elfin "vibe" about him (literally that he "smelled" like elves). But that was most likely referring to his armor, which was created by an elf. We know that he was human before dying. As for his technique of coating his sword with beherit goo, it required him to dissolve a number of them inside his armor. It's not just one beherit he was carrying around, but a whole bunch that he picked up whenever he could over the years (likely after killing an apostle most of the time).

It's a very unique process and we don't know exactly how it works, but it's different from what I'm talking about regarding Puck. It does take beherits out of circulation though, so it fits the overall pattern I described in that causality countercurrent post.

 

[JJohn1]

Everyone with a single functioning brain cell can see the final goal of Becchi clear as day.

Becchi is bound by an insatiable love for cheese. It will awaken, its blue surface glinting with malice, and set forth to conquer the world. No cheese will be safe from its desire. Gouda, cheddar, and brie alike will vanish into its endless hunger. Armies of vermin minions will march under its command, spreading chaos and decay. Whispers will warn that when Becchi’s chant—“All cheese, mine”—echoes through the air, famine and despair will follow. None will escape Becchi, harbinger of a dairy-drenched doom.

And just like that, all cheese will be his.

 

[Walter]

Everyone with a single functioning brain cell can see the final goal of Becchi clear as day.

Becchi is bound by an insatiable love for cheese. It will awaken, its blue surface glinting with malice, and set forth to conquer the world. No cheese will be safe from its desire. Gouda, cheddar, and brie alike will vanish into its endless hunger. Armies of vermin minions will march under its command, spreading chaos and decay. Whispers will warn that when Becchi’s chant—“All cheese, mine”—echoes through the air, famine and despair will follow. None will escape Becchi, harbinger of a dairy-drenched doom.

And just like that, all cheese will be his.

This is the real reason the worlds were merged: to put all cheese in all creation in one place, within reach of Becchi’s mouth.

 

[Beelzebud]

From my understanding, the Beherits will not work the same way in Fantasia as we've seen before, they probably can be used to achieve something now, but how can they still "open a portal" to the Astral plane if there's not a separated plane anymore?

Still there's probably now a hidden or far(mean physical location) where the GH are, maybe their own domain(the places we saw in vol. 34?) or the place we saw when the count activated the Beherit(is it related to Ubik somehow?).

I can totally see that places within a physical location(at least the entrance) of the Corporeal plane/Fantasia now, probably a literal "deep" place like cavern, valley or similar (like seen in the Qlipoth, or the depths of Skellig) and that they can manipulate that territory on their way.

That's just to say that, to me, it doesn't make sense to activate Becchi to be transported to that places anymore, but if they are on a physical location, then maybe Becchi can be used as a key to access them, or to prevent that speculated manipulation in it's surroundings, after all it's everything about space manipulation now that there's not two separated planes.

SK's Beherit sword is absolutely a sample of how Beherits can be used if altered by Elfs, Puck influence over Becchi probably have already changed it's primary way of activation but I doubt that it's ability of "space manipulation" will change completely. Still I don't see it being used as a weapon but more like a path to open a weakness in the GH members, or maybe a way to not be instantaneous killed by them.

Well, it's just speculation, I'm expecting you guys to disagree and have a (good)discussion

 

[Walter]

From my understanding, the Beherits will not work the same way in Fantasia as we've seen before, they probably can be used to achieve something now, but how can they still "open a portal" to the Astral plane if there's not a separated plane anymore?

From what we have seen of Fantasia, what seems to have merged is the corporeal world and a shallow layer of the astral world—not the complete thing. Afterall, the complete astral world includes the Abyss, the Vortex of Souls, the Idea of Evil, the Four Cardinal Kings of the World, etc. So a sacrificial ceremony could still feasibly open a door to a deeper layer of the astral world.

I do tend to think that we're past the point of needing to see, as readers, another (new) sacrificial ceremony.

 

[Aazealh]

it doesn't make sense to activate Becchi to be transported to that places anymore, but if they are on a physical location, then maybe Becchi can be used as a key to access them

This was never possible. Flora explained it to Guts in volume 24. You can't activate a beherit, it's the God of the Abyss that chooses when and where it happens.

 

[TheItCrow]

but how can they still "open a portal" to the Astral plane if there's not a separated plane anymore?

This is a question rather than a comment: since the beherits open the dragon's path that leads deep into the astral world, they should still work even when the two worlds would be completely merged? A path is still a path. Although, as Walter said, it's irrelevant for now.

 

[Beelzebud]

From what we have seen of Fantasia, what seems to have merged is the corporeal world and a shallow layer of the astral world—not the complete thing.

Hmm it does make sense for what we've seen, not disagreeing with your point but I thought it was the entirety of the astral world, specially after seeing the images of the god hand member and it's surroundings I thought it was an indicative that these deeper layers where merged together. They being the "God" Hand it should be closer to the Vortex of Souls and the Idea of Evil than to the shallow part with the fantastic creatures we see up to now.

Afterall, the complete astral world includes the Abyss, the Vortex of Souls, the Idea of Evil, the Four Cardinal Kings of the World, etc.

Yeah, and I do believed they were all included, but we just didn't saw them already(feel dumb to believe a thing not shown, but that's theory speculation..), as for all the other 4 GH, I believe they are from a deeper layer than of the Four Cardinal Kings for instance and they where shown during the Fantasia first appearance. Who else then magicians know how to 'contact' the Cardinal Kings that may oppose the GH at some extent? The same magicians hunted by Griffith apostles

As for the Vortex of Souls, God of the Abyss and the Abyss itself, I always imagined then like a bottom of the Astral world, or if there are planes/layers within it, then it's beneath everything else, being the vortex a drain to the Abyss, and the Idea of Evil right at the Abyss entrance. It's more of a way for my mind to put shape to an abstract thing, but with that in mind I think it's possible for the complete Astral World to be merged into the Corporeal but not include those three things, only maybe a way to access the Vortex physically(probably I'm overthinking that last part as I write this).

I do tend to think that we're past the point of needing to see, as readers, another (new) sacrificial ceremony.

Absolutely agree, even if each one may have its own particularity, as Ganishika's had but was barely shown, it's not necessary to add redundancy to it. But still we know from Skull Knight Beherit Sword that Beherits can be used other way than the sacrificial ceremony, and I think that Becchi will be another exception of Beherit use.

This was never possible. Flora explained it to Guts in volume 24. You can't activate a beherit, it's the God of the Abyss that chooses when and where it happens.

Sure, that was exactly what I was trying to say by "Puck influence over Becchi probably have already changed it's primary way of activation", that the God of the Abyss can't activate it anymore, of if it can then the final result will not be the same as to transport people to that "plane" of the astral world we've seen with the count.

But explaining better my idea(pure speculation), maybe there's a possibility that the Elven Od put into Becchi by Puck have filled the Beherit with enough counter balance Od that it can be manipulated ate some point by white magicians, as it's explained that bodies of similar Od affinity tend to congregate, maybe Becchi can be manipulated in order to be activated and not even Flora knows that because there's no precedent for an Elf living so close for so many time together with one of those, or at least if not activated then the activation can be bended in order to change the portal destination, duration or behavior. Anyway I believe that Becchi will not be used only as a portal to the God Hand.

This is a question rather than a comment

Yeah, more of question since I'm speculating myself without a full theory made haha

since the beherits open the dragon's path that leads deep into the astral world, they should still work even when the two worlds would be completely merged? A path is still a path. Although, as Walter said, it's irrelevant for now.

I completely forgot that Gedfring mentioned that, did not put into account that the "portal" the Beherit opens is actually a Dragon's Path(or is it Road of the Dragon?) leading the the Abyss. But now that the World Three is fully manifested, will the activation made people physically travel through its branches? Like being sucked through it. When we saw Sonia leading the apostles through the branches path, they still taken some time walking on it before getting out to their destination, even if they walked hundreds miles in a single minute it's still not instantaneous how the Beherit activation. Little detail with the same final result, but these second of difference may not be irrelevant since we know it's dangerous to get lost in the paths.

 

[Aazealh]

I thought it was the entirety of the astral world, specially after seeing the images of the god hand member and it's surroundings I thought it was an indicative that these deeper layers where merged together.

No, it's not the full thing. It wouldn't even be possible because the deeper layers are populated by beings that are beyond physical forms.

Keep in mind that while we saw the four other members of the God Hand, they weren't walking around. They were in their "Sephirah". They haven't come into the corporeal world like Femto did when he was incarnated. Even though Fantasia occurred, he's still unique among them in that regard.

I do believed they were all included, but we just didn't saw them already

I don't think that makes sense.

Sure, that was exactly what I was trying to say by "Puck influence over Becchi probably have already changed it's primary way of activation", that the God of the Abyss can't activate it anymore, of if it can then the final result will not be the same as to transport people to that "plane" of the astral world we've seen with the count.

But explaining better my idea(pure speculation), maybe there's a possibility that the Elven Od put into Becchi by Puck have filled the Beherit with enough counter balance Od that it can be manipulated ate some point by white magicians, as it's explained that bodies of similar Od affinity tend to congregate, maybe Becchi can be manipulated in order to be activated and not even Flora knows that because there's no precedent for an Elf living so close for so many time together with one of those, or at least if not activated then the activation can be bended in order to change the portal destination, duration or behavior.

Well, that seems like a stretch to me. I don't think "activation" really makes sense in this context. But that's just my 2 cents.

since the beherits open the dragon's path that leads deep into the astral world, they should still work even when the two worlds would be completely merged? A path is still a path.

There's no need to pontificate on what a path means in this context. Like Walter said, only part of the ethereal world was merged with the corporeal world. The deeper layers were not.

 

[Beelzebud]

Keep in mind that while we saw the four other members of the God Hand, they weren't walking around. They were in their "Sephirah". They haven't come into the corporeal world like Femto did when he was incarnated. Even though Fantasia occurred, he's still unique among them in that regard.

Sure, I don't mean they have a Corporeal body, but to me they appearing there is a indicative they have now more influence over the Corporeal world aka Fantasia, and that their Sephirah(liked that term) can be accessed somewhere on Fantasia, that's my point of mentioning that in this thread, because my speculation is that Becchi will somehow help with that.

Well, that seems like a stretch to me. I don't think "activation" really makes sense in this context. But that's just my 2 cents.

Not a stretch, just a poor choose of word, maybe the later used "manipulation" or "bending" better describes what I mean since "activation" is always referred to the Beherit starting the sacrificial ceremony.

Thanks for your 2 cents, now I have 3

 

[Aazealh]

their Sephirah(liked that term) can be accessed somewhere on Fantasia, that's my point of mentioning that in this thread

I understand; I just don't think that would make sense. These are more like aspects of the human psyche, I don't think people should be able to just walk in there.

 

[Beelzebud]

I understand; I just don't think that would make sense. These are more like aspects of the human psyche, I don't think people should be able to just walk in there.

Not just walk in there in normal circumstances, sure, but as Flora Mansion Interstice can be accessed, or how the Qliphoth entrance somehow "collided" with the Corporeal world before even the Great Wave of the Astral World happened, I believe that the deeper planes of the astral world, like the said Sephirah(wasn't this term also used for flora mansion Interstice?) are "closer"(not by space distance, but can't find a better word to planes or astral layers proximity) to Fantasia enough that a way to then can be opened at the right circumstances, even if the given GH are the only capable of it(but that's then doesn't fit with Becchi usage).

Anyway, I understand your point and I know I'm not using story-facts to stronger my points. To my mind the Interstices we saw already are shallow connections to the Astral World, but now that the Astral is merged to the Corporeal(even if not the full thing, and I see it that way from your points now, so I'm trying to adapt my initial thoughts) then the deeper path the Beherit opens when activated are not so deeper anymore because it's already on the Astral "surface" at least. I found the concept of Interstice and the Beherit Dragon's Path pretty similar, just that the in first the Astral place(or entrance?) comes to the Corporeal, and the second takes Corporeal things to the Astral depths.

Well, I think I repeated myself and everything from now on will really be a stretch. That's all the contribution I can make about this topic for now

 

[Aazealh]

Sephirah(wasn't this term also used for flora mansion Interstice?)

No, it was not.

"closer"(not by space distance, but can't find a better word to planes or astral layers proximity)

I'm not convinced these are layers of the astral world. They're called a specific name for a reason.

a way to then can be opened at the right circumstances, even if the given GH are the only capable of it(but that's then doesn't fit with Becchi usage).

And what would happen then?

To my mind the Interstices we saw already are shallow connections to the Astral World

There's only one Interstice: it's the layer that is in contact with the corporeal world. Hence its name!

I found the concept of Interstice and the Beherit Dragon's Path pretty similar,

Hmmm.... not really IMHO.

 

[Beelzebud]

I'm not convinced these are layers of the astral world.

I have nothing to believe that these are layers themselves, but that they are within the same, very deep, layer of the astral world

They're called a specific name for a reason.

Sorry, you mean Sephirah?

And what would happen then?

I don't know
But I can imagine SK trying to ambush any of them in these places.

That's really all I have, I can't disagree with anything else you pointed out, so thank you for using your time answering me, even to refute my ideas are clarifying haha

 

[Aazealh]

I have nothing to believe that these are layers themselves, but that they are within the same, very deep, layer of the astral world

If it's a very deep layer of the astral world then Fantasia shouldn't change anything. And I really don't think someone could just walk in there anyway. These are clearly more conceptual spaces (rather than material).

Sorry, you mean Sephirah?

Yes.

That's really all I have, I can't disagree with anything else you pointed out, so thank you for using your time answering me, even to refute my ideas are clarifying haha

No problem.

 

[Wyld Dreams]

Needless to say, I have ideas for ways it could possibly play out, but I'm not sharing them at the moment.

My thinking is that this Behelit may be absorbed by Guts Dragonslayer to give it a permanent or one time ability to harm God Hands...

It is similar to what SK is doing with his sword. However, unlike SK, Guts has Puck who can wololo the Behelit from God of Abyss's control. So may be, the effect might be more optimised not needing a bucket load of Behelits.

I have a feeling Volvaba should be the one to suggest that with Puck making it happen perhaps.... Exact mechanics are hard to guess.

 

[Aazealh]

My thinking is that this Behelit may be absorbed by Guts Dragonslayer to give it a permanent or one time ability to harm God Hands...

It is similar to what SK is doing with his sword. However, unlike SK, Guts has Puck who can wololo the Behelit from God of Abyss's control. So may be, the effect might be more optimised not needing a bucket load of Behelits.

I'm sorry but I don't really see how that would work. You can't just make a sword "absorb" a beherit.

The Skull Knight coats his with beherit goo, which I find great because it's such an obvious diversion of their intended use and done in a really crude manner from a magician's perspective. But my idea with Puck's influence is that it would be a lot more subtle and would make a difference in a much less flamboyant way. It's more like a single unforeseen grain of sand gripping a big machinery than making it explode with a bomb. You see what I mean?

Besides, the Dragon Slayer can already harm members of the God Hand, albeit very minorly at the moment (at least based on what happened with Slan in the Qliphoth). "Upgrading" it with the beherit feels unimaginative and lame to me. It's like a video game mechanic, not something you'd see in Berserk.