Castlevania: Lords of Shadow
- Thread starter Walter
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I don't know about that. You guys may think I'm crazy for thinking its not gonna be a good game at all but there was a recent interview that just makes me even more sure its not gonna be that good of a game.
Firstly, they say they are looking at Castlevania 64 for inspiration. Secondly, He says Kojima isn't involved creatively with the project at all. Finally, they are comparing it to action games such as God of War, Dantes Inferno etc, so ya I really dont have any hope for this game because even if it does turn out to be decent it's not gonna have what makes previous castlevania games great. Here is a link to the interview.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ugcxc8MInoo&eurl
Firstly, they say they are looking at Castlevania 64 for inspiration. Secondly, He says Kojima isn't involved creatively with the project at all. Finally, they are comparing it to action games such as God of War, Dantes Inferno etc, so ya I really dont have any hope for this game because even if it does turn out to be decent it's not gonna have what makes previous castlevania games great. Here is a link to the interview.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ugcxc8MInoo&eurl
nomad
"Bring the light of day"
EndlessSky said:
Firstly he mentioned the original 8bit game and Castlevania 4 not 64. Secondly, I wouldn't rely on Kojima's involvement to be either a good game or not. As he mentioned in E3, he is currently working on MGS Peacewalker, plus helping develop the new Metal Gear Rising. I'm sure most people wouldn't expect much from him at this point.
Nomad said:
What Nomad said. And Castlevania 64 wasn't bad in many regards. Similarly, looking at games like God of War was precisely the right course of action. God of War does it right for the most part. Previous 3D Castlevania games didn't (for the most part). And I personally wouldn't want Kojima to be more involved than he currently is. So really, things are fine as far as I'm concerned.
The one question I have though is: what's IGA doing? Secret 2D HD Castlevania project? You heard it here first.
Yes, your correct he didn't say Castlevania 64, my mistake. The problem is I don't want a Castlevania game to be completely action oriented and linear like God War. That is not why I like Castlevania games, I like them for the exploration, and mild rpg and platforming elements. I mean if I want a action game I'm gonna get God of War or Bayonetta. The same why I would prefer Street Fighter or Tekken over the 3D fighting game Castlevania.
Honestly, I think those elements you've described, which began with Symphony of the Night, have been done to death by IGA at this point. No offense everyone else in this threadEndlessSky said:
They're classic games, no doubt, but that doesn't mean I want those elements in every single future Castlevania game. That exploration quality is only something that's been in recent Castlevania games. It's not something from the original games.
Hahaha yeah, exploration and mild-RPG elements? That's not what built the Castlevania name. It was whipping and platforming. And the atmosphere. Those are there. Production value is there too. And really, I don't doubt that there'll be some exploration as well. Maybe the game will suck, but I don't see why we should start with that assumption when the footage so far has been great. Let's have some faith.
That's a pretty stupid analogy.
EndlessSky said:
That's a pretty stupid analogy.
I'm assuming it will be bad because of the track record of the company that is mainly developing it which is mecurysteam. Also the fact it is gonna be action-oriented.
I also disagree with you of what built the castlevania name. The earlier games that were mainly built on just platforming and using the whip weren't that good in my opinion. I think it was Symphony of the Night that made it really take off and that had some RPG elements and exploration. Also when people say a game is "MetroidVania" style they mean the exploration of the world and upgrading your character parts of the game.
Why do you think its a stupid analogy?
I also disagree with you of what built the castlevania name. The earlier games that were mainly built on just platforming and using the whip weren't that good in my opinion. I think it was Symphony of the Night that made it really take off and that had some RPG elements and exploration. Also when people say a game is "MetroidVania" style they mean the exploration of the world and upgrading your character parts of the game.
Why do you think its a stupid analogy?
Just for the record, Castlevania Syphony of the Night definitely was not the game that catapulted Castlevania into the spotlight. It was plenty popular before, the game just added to an already popular formula. As an old-school Castlevania player, I have to tell you you're dead wrong about SotN being the launch point for the series. It's like people who claim FF7 was the launching point for the Final Fantasy series.
Gaming has just changed since back then. The old games aren't bad by any stretch of the imagination, they just needed people who are actually skilled to play them. SotN and all the games that came after it are incredibly easy so I can understand why more people can enjoy them, and I am by no means saying they're bad, but the straight up action oriented Castlevanias are still some of the best. Castlevania 3 is probably my favorite out of the whole series.
That said, I still don't want the game to be like God of War. Castlevania is not so much about just straight fighting with brief running periods and that's almost all you get with Devil May Cry and GoW clones. A lot of what has made Castlevania good has been the atmosphere presented in all the games, and that above all is probably the most important aspect. In that respect, I thought Castlevania 64 did a pretty good job, which is why I still enjoyed it. That and it was a good mix of fighting and platforming which is how I personally think the series is best. To make the game revolve mainly around 3D combat only would be a mistake in my opinion. You need to also appreciate the backdrops that you're set in, or you've got just another generic action brawler. Don't forget in the old games you could either kill almost any monster in one hit or choose to avoid them completely which was one of the best parts of the game. Any fight where you're stringing together combos and pulling off flashy moves until nothing's moving anymore? It's the last thing I want for this game. The original genius behind Castlevania was it's simplicity. Whip, jump or run on, it was just choosing the right actions depending on the environment and the enemies you were faced against that made the games challenging.
Gaming has just changed since back then. The old games aren't bad by any stretch of the imagination, they just needed people who are actually skilled to play them. SotN and all the games that came after it are incredibly easy so I can understand why more people can enjoy them, and I am by no means saying they're bad, but the straight up action oriented Castlevanias are still some of the best. Castlevania 3 is probably my favorite out of the whole series.
That said, I still don't want the game to be like God of War. Castlevania is not so much about just straight fighting with brief running periods and that's almost all you get with Devil May Cry and GoW clones. A lot of what has made Castlevania good has been the atmosphere presented in all the games, and that above all is probably the most important aspect. In that respect, I thought Castlevania 64 did a pretty good job, which is why I still enjoyed it. That and it was a good mix of fighting and platforming which is how I personally think the series is best. To make the game revolve mainly around 3D combat only would be a mistake in my opinion. You need to also appreciate the backdrops that you're set in, or you've got just another generic action brawler. Don't forget in the old games you could either kill almost any monster in one hit or choose to avoid them completely which was one of the best parts of the game. Any fight where you're stringing together combos and pulling off flashy moves until nothing's moving anymore? It's the last thing I want for this game. The original genius behind Castlevania was it's simplicity. Whip, jump or run on, it was just choosing the right actions depending on the environment and the enemies you were faced against that made the games challenging.
Well then, I am a fan of the newer generation of Castlvanias then and think the series is at its best with exploration, finding upgrades, improving your character etc and not the action part of it. That is why I think the new one is going to be bad, that and the developer mecruysteams' previous work was very very bad in all aspects, atmosphere, level design, action, etc. So until they prove otherwise I'm going to assume as such.
I just don't think going the linear, action-oriented way is the right direction for the series.
I just don't think going the linear, action-oriented way is the right direction for the series.
I would say it's probably safer to say that it may not be to your tastes. I think it's absolutely wrong to call them 'bad', because the older games were actually very well constructed for their time, which is the reason why the series still exists today.
That said, I think that it's perfectly fine to go either direction. I like the open ended games with exploration, but I liked the older action oriented styles as well. I know there are some people that only prefer one way or the other, but that doesn't mean that both styles (or something completely new) can't co-exist. The fact is, we've been overflowed with the exploration style Castlevania titles for a very long time, so I don't think it would hurt to have a more action oriented game thrown in here or there. It's all about balance. While I still enjoy the newer style, I find it hard to believe that people aren't at least a little tired of playing what is essentially the same game for the fifth time over. We've got SotN, Circle of the Moon, Harmony of Dissonance, Aria of Sorrow, Dawn of Sorrow, Portrait of Ruin, and Order of Ecclesia almost all out in the last 10 years. I don't think taking a break here or there is a bad thing at all. Trust me when I say they won't abandon the exploration type any time soon, just remember that the series is about more than just the exploration titles.
That said, I think that it's perfectly fine to go either direction. I like the open ended games with exploration, but I liked the older action oriented styles as well. I know there are some people that only prefer one way or the other, but that doesn't mean that both styles (or something completely new) can't co-exist. The fact is, we've been overflowed with the exploration style Castlevania titles for a very long time, so I don't think it would hurt to have a more action oriented game thrown in here or there. It's all about balance. While I still enjoy the newer style, I find it hard to believe that people aren't at least a little tired of playing what is essentially the same game for the fifth time over. We've got SotN, Circle of the Moon, Harmony of Dissonance, Aria of Sorrow, Dawn of Sorrow, Portrait of Ruin, and Order of Ecclesia almost all out in the last 10 years. I don't think taking a break here or there is a bad thing at all. Trust me when I say they won't abandon the exploration type any time soon, just remember that the series is about more than just the exploration titles.
EndlessSky said:
Uhh, that's not up to agreement or disagreement... That's how it is and if you disagree you're just wrong.
EndlessSky said:
Well like CowTip said, you think wrong. What was the first Castlevania game you played? I'll laugh if you say SOTN, be warned.
EndlessSky said:
Because it's completely irrelevant. Judgment was just bad. It's a bad spin-off. The comparison is useless.
CowTip said:
Yeah and let's not forget how much SOTN takes from past games. From Vampire Killer to Rondo of Blood, not to mention Castlevania 2, Castlevania 3 and Super Castlevania IV. The characters, the enemies, the levels, the items, the plot devices... Basically the stuff all those people who obsess over the Super Metroid-like map have consistently failed to notice for the past 12 years.
CowTip said:
(I'm humming the music right now, that's how little it takes)
By the way, in case you haven't heard yet: http://kotaku.com/5358367/castlevania-rebirth-rated-coming-to-wiiware
CowTip said:
I heartily agree with what you're saying here, including when it comes to Castlevania 64. However, for obvious reasons the original gameplay can't be retained in 3D form. One-hit kills are mostly a thing of the past, even when they shouldn't be (thinking of the Berserk games here, with enemies needing a half-dozen hits from the Dragon Slayer to die). I don't think God of War-style gameplay is a bad thing in itself (and really, you'd better be prepared for it, considering what we've seen in trailers), but it needs to be cleverly integrated to the rest of the game, including some platforms elements. Now the problem is platforming in 3D is very difficult. The genre thrived in 2D, not so much anymore.
If we get platforming segments that resemble Prince of Persia: Sands of Time (or even Assassin's Creed), which is what the trailer reminded me of, then they might have the recipe for greatness. Using the whip to swing from a point to another à la SCIV, climbing the outside of the castle like in PoP... The only thing left would be for the action-packed fights to not be locked to the area (i.e. allowing you to progress without killing everything). We'll see but that's not something I'd really expect though.
EndlessSky said:
What are the last few Castlevania games you've played, just for info? And what did you think of them?
EndlessSky said:
No, their previous work was mediocre, but it wasn't complete shit. Scrapland's got an average of 73 on Metacritic, and Jericho has 63. And the main complaints on Jericho were the lack of atmosphere, poor acting and general production value, and bad AI (for a game where team mates play a huge part). I think the Lords of Shadow trailers have showed that production value is there this time. I actually marvel at Natasha McElhone's short speech in the latest trailer as I think her delivery is nothing short of amazing. So the acting will be stellar and provided by renowned actors. The atmosphere is also top-notch as far as the trailers go, in line with the rest of the series. Really, it looks to me like you've decided this would be shit on principle of it not being what you expected and that nothing will make you change your mind.
Being cautious is a good thing, but being absolutely opposed to a game before it comes out is as bad as mindlessly professing it'll be the best thing ever. Could even be worse. The point I'm making here is that I don't think it's very smart to slam a game simply because you don't like its genre. And as a side note, going back to Mercury Steam, you should know that the producer also plays a huge role when it comes to the quality of a title. RARE's games wouldn't have been half of what they were during the N64 era if Nintendo execs (among them Miyamoto) hadn't been breathing down their necks 24/7. So with the Konami people to oversee the development process, most notably the famed Hideo Kojima, I think you should ease up a little. Mercury Steam's lack of reputation is probably the reason Konami put him on the job in the first place.
EndlessSky said:
Hahaha, funny to read that when you know that the series has never been as unoriginal as after SOTN. I'd love to talk about how linear Castlevania 2 and 3 are, it'd be lots of fun. Anyway, don't be worried, we haven't heard about IGA lately but I'm sure he's got another SOTN clone in the making. And don't get me wrong, I love those games too, I have all the GBA and NDS releases. It's just that Castlevania can genuinely aspire to being more than just that.
Aazealh said:
Not a bad choice. I loved that game as well, but it's hard for me to ignore the great times I had with 3. The opening music is just awesome and there's been few games that left me feeling as accomplished as I did when I finished the game with just Trevor.
Wow! I hadn't heard about that. Seems a little out of left field~ I honestly hope they tweak the game some though. Castlevania: The Adventure was probably the most brutal Castlevania game due to how slow Christopher (I think it was Christopher anyway) walks and he drops like a ton of rocks after the apex of his jumps meaning you have to be crazy accurate with your timing. I think I finished the game once over dozens of playthroughs. I hope this leads to the re-release of Castlevania II: Belmont's Revenge. That was, in my opinion, the best of the original Gameboy Castlevanias.
Well, I think there's some techniques they could use that could help translate to a 3D environment such as creating environments intentionally cramped (such as a tunnel or path through the woods or something), but then open up for areas more intended for platforming/exploration, but I'm sure you're right and that we'll be seeing more arena style battles ala God of War. I'm prepared for it, I just wish and somewhat hope that they can come up with something a little more suited to the original style.
CowTip said:
Yeah, I can totally understand that. In fact, after my post yesterday I booted up my Wii and bought Castlevania 3 on the Virtual Console.
CowTip said:
Yeah, Belmont's Revenge was miles above The Adventure, which I personally never even bought since it was so bad. Anyway, I'm sure this Rebirth title won't just be a port of the GB game. It'll either be a remake or a whole new game.
CowTip said:
Yeah, they could definitely design it cleverly so that you can freely travel over some parts and are only at times forced to confront every enemy they throw at you. We'll see. While I think the game has potential I don't want to be too hopeful either.
Yeah, honestly, I'm mostly hoping for a good story and atmosphere (sort of like what I claimed earlier), which honestly from what the trailers have shown us, looks promising. I think that's why I'm looking forward to it instead of just showing outright caution. We'll find out soon enough though I suppose. Here's to a few months of waiting!
handsome rakshas
Thanks Grail!
One of my old buds came back this weekend from college to visit and he loved the trailer. Me and this guy used to play Symphony at the same time on two tvs in his basement back in high school. We used to have a blast because we would cover twice as much area and give each other tips of rare item drops and breakable walls, great memories.
The last minute of the trailer is what really does it for me. I hope revenge in 2010 will be Drac's!
The last minute of the trailer is what really does it for me. I hope revenge in 2010 will be Drac's!
Daijyashin
Berserk is Divine and Human
Finally we know more about this new Castlevania and I can say with pleasure that my initial position has widely changed after I read about new elements and confirmation.
Basically David Cox said that the game needed a reboot, getting far from the SOTN-IGA franchising(it's not a case that at first, just before that IGA released the Chi no Rondo on PSP he was saying that he would have create a new 3D game to innovate the series but now he just take care of SOTN bad clone).
Yeah the GOW action system rise the value, but Cox has inserted various elements from the mile stone Super Castlevania IV the BEST remake ever of Akumajou Dracula on nes as we can read here:
http://retro.nintendolife.com/news/2010/05/lords_of_shadow_to_feature_classic_nintendo_castlevania_music
In fact that being said, though it's not a remake SC4, it's soundtrack it's one of the most well conceived and darker ever, that surely played an important role in giving the proper feedback to the snes remake.
So since Cox stated that his favourite Castlevania is SC4, I am much relieved about the music lenght.
Moreover the atmosphere is pretty fitting, and seems that there will be even the two Death's demon servant: Slogra and Gaibon, and I bet in a perfectly SC4 scheme-pattern of fighting.
http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/44484/t1501775-slogra-confirmed/
Sincerely I just prefer Slogra and Gaibon as unique bosses, instead of the plenty of those of SOTN. Same for the Castlevania with a plenty of Succubus.
About the environment and the character design, Cox is following pretty well any advise from Hideo:
"He's got more of an advisory role, so he's looking at the game from afar more than anything else," says Cox. "He always says to me, 'Dave, you're the producer, it's your project and it's your call. You don't have to do what I say, I'm just here to help you.' But when Kojima-san gives you advice you've got to take it seriously, really."
So the accuracy of Kojima-san and the talent of Mercury Steam surely will grant a good title.
Basically David Cox said that the game needed a reboot, getting far from the SOTN-IGA franchising(it's not a case that at first, just before that IGA released the Chi no Rondo on PSP he was saying that he would have create a new 3D game to innovate the series but now he just take care of SOTN bad clone).
Yeah the GOW action system rise the value, but Cox has inserted various elements from the mile stone Super Castlevania IV the BEST remake ever of Akumajou Dracula on nes as we can read here:
http://retro.nintendolife.com/news/2010/05/lords_of_shadow_to_feature_classic_nintendo_castlevania_music
In fact that being said, though it's not a remake SC4, it's soundtrack it's one of the most well conceived and darker ever, that surely played an important role in giving the proper feedback to the snes remake.
So since Cox stated that his favourite Castlevania is SC4, I am much relieved about the music lenght.
Moreover the atmosphere is pretty fitting, and seems that there will be even the two Death's demon servant: Slogra and Gaibon, and I bet in a perfectly SC4 scheme-pattern of fighting.
http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/44484/t1501775-slogra-confirmed/
Sincerely I just prefer Slogra and Gaibon as unique bosses, instead of the plenty of those of SOTN. Same for the Castlevania with a plenty of Succubus.
About the environment and the character design, Cox is following pretty well any advise from Hideo:
"He's got more of an advisory role, so he's looking at the game from afar more than anything else," says Cox. "He always says to me, 'Dave, you're the producer, it's your project and it's your call. You don't have to do what I say, I'm just here to help you.' But when Kojima-san gives you advice you've got to take it seriously, really."
So the accuracy of Kojima-san and the talent of Mercury Steam surely will grant a good title.
Daijyashin
Berserk is Divine and Human
Aazealh said:
Yeah, but it's always a pleasure talking about these games and their developments and progresses, not a trouble.
And Patrick Stewart?perros said:
http://scrawlfx.com/2010/08/new-castlevania-lords-of-shadow-screenshots-showcase-hud
Some new screen shots have come out; looks very nice but the first two esp. remind me of Shadow of the Colossus. The enemies look pretty interesting and dark though I am unsure how I feel about that. Something about the original Castlevania enemies such as the venus weeds always gave me artistic inspiration somehow, however this new stuff seems more like the rest, God of War, Dante's Inferno, etc. But I guess it's about time it got a little more grotesque. I am not sure we'll see some classic enemies (like the Medusa heads) though I can't remember if they were in the other 3D games either.
TriFrog said:
I haven't played the previous 3D games so I can't comment on how the enemies were in them, however I think it's a given that you can't have the same feeling in 3D than you do in 2D. That's why no matter how good this game will be (and I hope it'll be incredible) I'll always want more 2D Castlevania games, because you can do things in them that are just not possible in 3D games (and vice versa).