Could Void's true name be Albion?

[Gambler]

Considering the Holy See controlled what we know as Midland after the fall of Gaisertic's Empire, maybe:

- Albion was the sage tortured in the Tower of Conviction, and the city was named St. Albion after him;

- Ironic how Albion is related with white/light, while Void is pure darkness.

Maybe Albions' conviction was tested at the Tower while being tortured.

 

[Walter]

Yep, we’ve talked about it here and there on the forum, as well as during the vol 18 reread podcast. It makes a stronger case than “Vid.”

 

[mathstruggler]

Would've been an amazing reveal

 

[MetalChimera]

Yep, we’ve talked about it here and there on the forum, as well as during the vol 18 reread podcast. It makes a stronger case than “Vid.”

Isn't there a stronger case for Vid, seeing as that young Dwarven man's fathers name was Vid.

 

[Walter]

Isn't there a stronger case for Vid, seeing as that young Dwarven man's fathers name was Vid.

Gedflyn was a short archmage, not a dwarf. As for the comparison:

Case for Albion: The monastery is named St. Albion (read: Saint Albion), regularly referred to as a holy place, which likely got its name from the incident related by Mozgus, in which an angel descended after a wise man professed Gaiseric's sins to god. Which sounds an awful lot like Void joining the God Hand.

Case for Vid: It's one letter away from Void, bingo! ...Right? Actually, It's ヴィド vs ボイド. Not actually that similar. And aside from that, it's simply not how God Hand members are named. Griffith became Femto. So there's no reason to assume Ubik was some guy named Ubi.

 

[Lawliet]

Isn't there a stronger case for Vid, seeing as that young Dwarven man's fathers name was Vid.

Aside from what Walter said, it is also weird for Skully to refer to Void so casually, and by his human name too, if he were indeed Vid. I mean, he's been trying to kill him for a millennium - I doubt he'd meet his supposed son and simply say, "Oh, you're Vid's son, aren't you?"

 

[Gambler]

Gedflyn was a short archmage, not a dwarf. As for the comparison:

Case for Albion: The monastery is named St. Albion (read: Saint Albion), regularly referred to as a holy place, which likely got its name from the incident related by Mozgus, in which an angel descended after a wise man professed Gaiseric's sins to god. Which sounds an awful lot like Void joining the God Hand.

Case for Vid: It's one letter away from Void, bingo! ...Right? Actually, It's ヴィド vs ボイド. Not actually that similar. And aside from that, it's simply not how God Hand members are named. Griffith became Femto. So there's no reason to assume Ubik was some guy named Ubi.

About that, what theories we currently have about what happened at the Tower (and the events at episode 362)?

Do you think we can trust this version of “one angel descended” or this could be the distorted version told by the Holy See?

Also… the events shown at 362, are them right after what happened at the Tower?

And the 4 other guys with Void, the best theory is that they were a primitive version of what would eventually become the Godhand?

I’m pretty convinced Void’s name was Albion, but these events are still confusing and since the Continuation skipped Miura’s plans to develop SK’s backstory, its up to us to speculate right now

 

[Walter]

Do you think we can trust this version of “one angel descended” or this could be the distorted version told by the Holy See?

I think we were told a significant event that we should regard seriously, but it's through a distorted lens.

these events are still confusing and since the Continuation skipped Miura’s plans to develop SK’s backstory, its up to us to speculate right now

They're meant to be incomplete.

 

[Introspective narcissist]

Gedflyn was a short archmage, not a dwarf. As for the comparison:

Case for Albion: The monastery is named St. Albion (read: Saint Albion), regularly referred to as a holy place, which likely got its name from the incident related by Mozgus, in which an angel descended after a wise man professed Gaiseric's sins to god. Which sounds an awful lot like Void joining the God Hand.

Case for Vid: It's one letter away from Void, bingo! ...Right? Actually, It's ヴィド vs ボイド. Not actually that similar. And aside from that, it's simply not how God Hand members are named. Griffith became Femto. So there's no reason to assume Ubik was some guy named Ubi.

My money is on VID, for reasons.

And isn't Albion, just an old name for Great britain? Berserk takes place in a fictional version of Europe. A lot of the places and architecture are Italian. Could it not be referring to britain with the name?

 

[Aazealh]

My money is on VID, for reasons.

And isn't Albion, just an old name for Great britain? Berserk takes place in a fictional version of Europe. A lot of the places and architecture are Italian. Could it not be referring to britain with the name?

Berserk is a fantasy story. Some buildings are based on real ones from various countries, not Italy specifically. The way you worded that was misleading. Some names are taken from real world things as well, but repurposed for whatever Miura wanted them to be. In this case, there's absolutely no chance it could refer to Great Britain, and that wouldn't make any sense in the context of the story, where it is the name of a saint in the religion of the Holy See.

 

[Wyld Dreams]

My money is on VID, for reasons.

Mine on this....

There's also the possibility that St. Albion was a name derived by the Holy See, and was not his birth name. That's not actually farfetched if you consider a Pope's name is different from their birth name. And historically many saints had designated names different from their birth names. In this case, St. Albion = Vido, who became Void.

This makes most sense... A mage name Vido was exiled and tortured there and he was "canonized" as St Albion by HolySee after the fact. It fits so well with what HolySee is : a two faced organization that hides too many skeletons in its closet. Its past saints are actually mages and heretics who are in total contrast to its public stance and teachings with respect to magic, spirits and mages.

 

[Aazealh]

A mage name Vido was exiled and tortured there and he was "canonized" as St Albion by HolySee after the fact.

His name likely wasn't "Vido" but Vidflyn, Vid being an abbreviation for it much like Ged for Gedflyn. And as it's been said, the context in which he's mentioned doesn't lend credibility to the idea that he could have been "exiled and tortured" by Gaizeric. It's a pleasant talk where they're exchanging niceties.

 

[Wyld Dreams]

His name likely wasn't "Vido" but Vidflyn, Vid being an abbreviation for it much like Ged for Gedflyn. And as it's been said, the context in which he's mentioned doesn't lend credibility to the idea that he could have been "exiled and tortured" by Gaizeric. It's a pleasant talk where they're exchanging niceties.

ヴィド will be pronounced as "Vui-do", right? Thats why I use that romanization : Vido. And yes, his actual name could have been longer.

On context, I always thought that Skull Knight to be beyond the concept of pleasant and unpleasant. He is a wraith. He merely acknowledged Gedflyn as a person from his past.

 

[Aazealh]

ヴィド will be pronounced as "Vui-do", right? Thats why I use that romanization : Vido. And yes, his actual name could have been longer.

No, it's pronounced "Vido". ヴィ is Vi. But, just like ゲド is pronounced "Gedo", ボイド is pronounced "Boido" or ゾッド is pronounced "Zoddo", it doesn't mean it's the right way to transliterate it. I'd rather not go into the basics of the Japanese language in this thread, though.

On context, I always thought that Skull Knight to be beyond the concept of pleasant and unpleasant. He is a wraith. He merely acknowledged Gedflyn as a person from his past.

Well that's just not true. He speaks more nicely to some people than to others. Case in point: he is nice to Gedflyn.

 

[Walter]

Mine on this....



This makes most sense... A mage name Vido was exiled and tortured there and he was "canonized" as St Albion by HolySee after the fact. It fits so well with what HolySee is : a two faced organization that hides too many skeletons in its closet. Its past saints are actually mages and heretics who are in total contrast to its public stance and teachings with respect to magic, spirits and mages.

Err, but… that’s all about Albion. So what is the actual argument for Vid to be Void? Why should this guy, mentioned once (and casually) to be the human form of Void?

If you’re saying it’s the spelling alone, that isn’t very convincing for all the aforementioned reasons (we know a God Hand member doesn't need a name that's similar to their human form; ヴィド ≠ ボイド).

 

[Wyld Dreams]

Err, but… that’s all about Albion. So what is the actual argument for Vid to be Void? Why should this guy, mentioned once (and casually) to be the human form of Void?

If you’re saying it’s the spelling alone, that isn’t very convincing for all the aforementioned reasons (we know a God Hand member doesn't need a name that's similar to their human form; ヴィド ≠ ボイド).

My reason for Vid/Vido/Vidflyn to be Void is more than just the name. Its the context. Firstly, he was father of Gedflyn/Ged making him contemporary of SK's human life. This is among the very few people who have canonically been know to live in that time. Given this is a work of fiction, I feel the reason for introducing him by name is for him to have some role in the story to come forth. Also important that SK remembers his name specifically.

Second is the magical connection. Ged/Gedflyn is a great mage / guru. His father was likely a mage too --familial profession-- of some import since he was meeting and remembered by great emperor Gaisaric. Among God Hand, Void is like a philosopher and mage.

Again, this is a work of fiction. So yeah, contemporary to SK's human life, important enough to be remembered, likely great mage... profile fits.

 

[Walter]

So yeah, contemporary to SK's human life, important enough to be remembered, likely great mage... profile fits.

Nothing about how Vid was brought up in Ep 361 feels like it suits how things went with Void, though.

For reference, here's the scene in question, translated by Puella:

Gedflynn: It’s been a while, your majesty …No, nowadays you go by "Skull Knight".
Guts: Your majesty….?
Skull Knight: Your face looks familiar. You’re Vid's child.
Gedflynn: My name is Gedflynn. When I was a boy, I had an audience with you with my father a few times. Now I manage the village.
Skull Knight: The know-it-all kid has become a great man.
Gedflynn: I’m grateful.

Consider how SK actually regards Void. Their history should have colored this conversation. Instead, it's essentially: "Oh yeah, your dad for whom I have a thousand-year-old grudge against, and who sacrificed me and my lady friend, I recall him well!". It wouldn't be so casual. It would have been addressed or alluded to in some way, because of how it ended with he and Void, either by Ged or by SK. Instead, we get absolutely nothing (a void!).

Beyond the hypothetical mentioning of Void in this conversation feeling a bit tone-deaf, there are some messy implications of Void, a God Hand member, still having a child alive. Recall how it worked with The Count and Theresia. This proposed arrangement of events would mean that Void's son, a vestigial connection to humanity, was meaningless; that Gaizeric's capital city, which he sacrificed, was more important than his son. That sounds like a pretty unlikely setup to me.

I think Vid was, like Ged, a great guru and leader of the outlying village of Elfhelm. That makes him pretty important, and someone who Gaizeric would have naturally spoken with (the context here is "hold an audience" because he's a king). But none of that means he has to be Void just because he's in proximity to Gaiseric. This was a time in the Berserk world's history where there were many magic users, not just those in Elfhelm. There were several candidates for Void. He remains a mystery, unfortunately.

But I think we absolutely would have seen the village, human Gaizeric, the lady medium of the cherry blossoms, and yes even Vid, in flashback form by this time if Miura were still alive. The story trajectory and hints that he was dropping were surely heading in that direction, and Miura even mentioned focusing on Skull Knight in his 2020 interview. We would probably already know about the real Void by now. But reaching for the solution and feeling content because of the convenient romanized similarity of Vid/Void feels like intellectual laziness, to me. As it is, we have a very incomplete picture. But if that's enough to solve the riddle for you, well... it must be nice to have some closure!

 

[Lawliet]

My reason for Vid/Vido/Vidflyn to be Void is more than just the name. Its the context. Firstly, he was father of Gedflyn/Ged making him contemporary of SK's human life. This is among the very few people who have canonically been know to live in that time. Given this is a work of fiction, I feel the reason for introducing him by name is for him to have some role in the story to come forth. Also important that SK remembers his name specifically.

Second is the magical connection. Ged/Gedflyn is a great mage / guru. His father was likely a mage too --familial profession-- of some import since he was meeting and remembered by great emperor Gaisaric. Among God Hand, Void is like a philosopher and mage.

Again, this is a work of fiction. So yeah, contemporary to SK's human life, important enough to be remembered, likely great mage... profile fits.

Not everything needs to serve a grand purpose in a story. Skully mentioning Vid serves the purpose of establishing familiarity between him and Ged (and emphasizing how old the latter is too). Purpose served, nothing beyond that is needed.

Many others fit the descriptions you mentioned too. It needn't have been Ged's dad.

Ask yourself this: would you even have considered all this had Ged's father been named Lid instead? Probably not.

 

[Wyld Dreams]

Many others fit the descriptions you mentioned too. It needn't have been Ged's dad.

Lets try this. Lets find how many 1000 year old mages we know by name in Berserk? How many of them are "missing" as in mentioned in passing? Things narrow down pretty fast right?

Ask yourself this: would you even have considered all this had Ged's father been named Lid instead? Probably not.

Absolutely! I would have. Its not the name itself that is important it is the fact that Miura felt it important enough for us to know the name. It could have been Vlad or Alucard or whatever.

That being said, I can agree on the counter point that may be, we are totally in dark about the name or identity of person who was Void's human past. Since in his interview Miura mentioned that the current arc is near its end and he will split the party again with a detour to the past of Skull Knight. We were perhaps at the verge of knowing the real identity and past of SK and most likely Void.

Actually it makes it even more sus. Ged's dad was mentioned RIGHT before the likely start of a new arc that would have gone into the past of SK and likely Void.

Nothing about how Vid was brought up in Ep 361 feels like it suits how things went with Void, though.

For reference, here's the scene in question, translated by Puella:


Consider how SK actually regards Void. Their history should have colored this conversation. Instead, it's essentially: "Oh yeah, your dad for whom I have a thousand-year-old grudge against, and who sacrificed me and my lady friend, I recall him well!". It wouldn't be so casual. It would have been addressed or alluded to in some way, because of how it ended with he and Void, either by Ged or by SK. Instead, we get absolutely nothing (a void!).

Beyond the hypothetical mentioning of Void in this conversation feeling a bit tone-deaf, there are some messy implications of Void, a God Hand member, still having a child alive. Recall how it worked with The Count and Theresia. This proposed arrangement of events would mean that Void's son, a vestigial connection to humanity, was meaningless; that Gaizeric's capital city, which he sacrificed, was more important than his son. That sounds like a pretty unlikely setup to me.

I think Vid was, like Ged, a great guru and leader of the outlying village of Elfhelm. That makes him pretty important, and someone who Gaizeric would have naturally spoken with (the context here is "hold an audience" because he's a king). But none of that means he has to be Void just because he's in proximity to Gaiseric. This was a time in the Berserk world's history where there were many magic users, not just those in Elfhelm. There were several candidates for Void. He remains a mystery, unfortunately.

But I think we absolutely would have seen the village, human Gaizeric, the lady medium of the cherry blossoms, and yes even Vid, in flashback form by this time if Miura were still alive. The story trajectory and hints that he was dropping were surely heading in that direction, and Miura even mentioned focusing on Skull Knight in his 2020 interview. We would probably already know about the real Void by now. But reaching for the solution and feeling content because of the convenient romanized similarity of Vid/Void feels like intellectual laziness, to me. As it is, we have a very incomplete picture. But if that's enough to solve the riddle for you, well... it must be nice to have some closure!

Okay, first thing first. It does not have to be Void. If the evidence was that strong, as we have for SK's human identity being Gaizeric, I am sure this conversation would not have been there. So it is one of the possibility, in my opinion a likely one. Thats all to it. How likely? On the balance of probabilities, more likely than not.

With that said, lets take a look at the objections you have mentioned.

SK holds immense grudge against inhumans and ESPECIALLY against Void. Absolutely. But then, we also know he holds a major regret/guilt/blame about his human past. Not to mention, he has decided to separate his human past from present undead form. Both Void and him are non-human existence and at the very least SK has completely detached himself from his human past with only revenge on God Hand and other inhumans as his living goal. Dare I say, this probably extends to Void's human past as well? We do not know the complete story of their relation. We do not know if it involved betrayal or what were the circumstances between those two when they were humans. We know very little about the circumstances in which Void's human past underwent occulatation.

It is not impossible that SK has grudge against Void and God Hand and inhumans while he does not feel as much of a hate/betrayal against Void's human past. After all this is berserk! Characters in this manga are pretty deep and complex and have very conflicting feelings.

Coming to Ged and him being a vestigal connection to humanity for Void, I do not think it is that big of an issue. There is evidence for this in Manga. First thing that Femto did after being incarnated was to visit Hill of Swords. To check if there is any shred of human connection in him that would come in his way of his dream. With Guts, Rickert and Casca present he only got response due to Moonlight Child! Meaning the occultation to become a God Hand is strong enough to wipe out any such vestigal connection. And Moonlight Child was something that was not a part of the God Hand plan anyways.

Also, Vido/Vid could be BOTH a great guru AND Void's human past. Clearly, to be the progenitor of God Hand (I for one now fully believe that God Hand started with him based on my past discussion on this forum) one needs to be a very high level mage. It actually supports the idea that he was Void's past!

 

[Walter]

It is not impossible that SK has grudge against Void and God Hand and inhumans while he does not feel as much of a hate/betrayal against Void's human past. After all this is berserk! Characters in this manga are pretty deep and complex and have very conflicting feelings.

So you're saying that SK would regard the person who actually sacrificed him, his capital, and his love, as innocent? You're right—that's very complex.

Listen, if we can't agree that if Vid is Void, then the Void/SK relationship needed to have been addressed in some (any) way in this scene in 361, then we're each wasting our time, because I don't see how we're going to agree on the rest.

Coming to Ged and him being a vestigal connection to humanity for Void, I do not think it is that big of an issue. There is evidence for this in Manga. First thing that Femto did after being incarnated was to visit Hill of Swords. To check if there is any shred of human connection in him that would come in his way of his dream. With Guts, Rickert and Casca present he only got response due to Moonlight Child! Meaning the occultation to become a God Hand is strong enough to wipe out any such vestigal connection. And Moonlight Child was something that was not a part of the God Hand plan anyways.

I understand this is inconvenient, but it is a potential issue. Under your idea, Gedflynn is a blood relative who wasn't sacrificed, and who (apparently) wasn't at the occultation. That's not normally how causality works. Those who are meant to be sacrificed are brought together for the sacrifice. Perhaps something or someone saved him (like SK with Rickert). But on its face, for him to be uninvolved would require an explanation. Because the facts as presented don't make sense.

Actually it makes it even more sus. Ged's dad was mentioned RIGHT before the likely start of a new arc that would have gone into the past of SK and likely Void.

Like I already said, all that means is that he would have been another character in the flashback sequence. Him being referenced before that simply shortcuts exposition for later. It doesn't mean that he's Void. Your appetite for answers is getting ahead of your reasoning.

 

[Lawliet]

Lets try this. Lets find how many 1000 year old mages we know by name in Berserk? How many of them are "missing" as in mentioned in passing? Things narrow down pretty fast right?

Not really. The point is that mages were hardly scarce is Gaizeric's time and therefore many could have been Void. That one of them is named is purely incidental. I'm sure if Skully met one of the other Gurus on the island, he would have mentioned their parents (if he knew them) too.

Absolutely! I would have. Its not the name itself that is important it is the fact that Miura felt it important enough for us to know the name. It could have been Vlad or Alucard or whatever.

I don't think so. Not saying this about you in particular, but I think this is one of those cases where a detail that doesn't necessarily mean anything (the similarity between Vid and Void) makes people come up with wild theories, things they would never think about otherwise.

It's a classic case of making a mountain out of a molehill. Vid being name-dropped needn't serve any purpose beyond establishing a shared history between Skully and Ged.

Actually it makes it even more sus. Ged's dad was mentioned RIGHT before the likely start of a new arc that would have gone into the past of SK and likely Void.

Why does it have to be suspicious at all? Like we said above, it was a pleasant talk where previous names are mentioned. They literally happen all the time in life. It doesn't need to lead to anything. The small-talk nature of it is what makes your identification unlikely in the first place.

Okay, first thing first. It does not have to be Void. If the evidence was that strong, as we have for SK's human identity being Gaizeric, I am sure this conversation would not have been there. So it is one of the possibility, in my opinion a likely one. Thats all to it. How likely? On the balance of probabilities, more likely than not.

Had it been another kind of conversation, maybe it would have been possible for Vid to be Void. But, again, it was far too tame for that to be the case. It just doesn't make sense otherwise.

With that said, lets take a look at the objections you have mentioned.

SK holds immense grudge against inhumans and ESPECIALLY against Void. Absolutely. But then, we also know he holds a major regret/guilt/blame about his human past. Not to mention, he has decided to separate his human past from present undead form. Both Void and him are non-human existence and at the very least SK has completely detached himself from his human past with only revenge on God Hand and other inhumans as his living goal. Dare I say, this probably extends to Void's human past as well? We do not know the complete story of their relation. We do not know if it involved betrayal or what were the circumstances between those two when they were humans. We know very little about the circumstances in which Void's human past underwent occulatation.

It is not impossible that SK has grudge against Void and God Hand and inhumans while he does not feel as much of a hate/betrayal against Void's human past. After all this is berserk! Characters in this manga are pretty deep and complex and have very conflicting feelings.

This makes no sense at all. And even if we accept it, the conversation still wouldn't be so casual. Guts would never speak of Griffith like that, even if he were referring to his human form. We know that some of the Band's members left after Griffith was arrested. If Guts were to meet them, do you think he'd casually say, "oh yeah, you worked under Griffith too, didn't you?" Of course not! That's just not how anyone thinks or speaks.

Regret, guilt, blame, even lingering affection - none of those are casual feelings, and we would have expected at least one of them to appear in a conversation about human Void.

Coming to Ged and him being a vestigal connection to humanity for Void, I do not think it is that big of an issue. There is evidence for this in Manga. First thing that Femto did after being incarnated was to visit Hill of Swords. To check if there is any shred of human connection in him that would come in his way of his dream. With Guts, Rickert and Casca present he only got response due to Moonlight Child! Meaning the occultation to become a God Hand is strong enough to wipe out any such vestigal connection. And Moonlight Child was something that was not a part of the God Hand plan anyways.

Walter's point was that it would be weird for Void not to sacrifice what's dearest to him when he became a God Hand, which would, presumably, be his son! (Unless he was a shit dad, but that's unlikely).

Also, Vido/Vid could be BOTH a great guru AND Void's human past. Clearly, to be the progenitor of God Hand (I for one now fully believe that God Hand started with him based on my past discussion on this forum) one needs to be a very high level mage. It actually supports the idea that he was Void's past!

Sure, but, and I'm sure you're tired of hearing this, the casual nature in which Vid was introduced rules him out as a candidate for Void's past.

 

[Scott Rugeles]

In general, I'm not leaning into the Vid = Void theory, but I just wanted to point out that we have already seen Apostles with human ties before (The Count).

 

[Walter]

Yeah I know, I addressed it when I first made the point:

there are some messy implications of Void, a God Hand member, still having a child alive. Recall how it worked with The Count and Theresia

It’s what makes Void having a living blood relative unlikely. Because yes, The Count became an apostle without sacrificing Theresia. But she became a weakness for him that required remediation, and it’s what led to his death. That's messy.

The scale of a God Hand member sacrifice isn't likely to have spared his blood relative. Gedflynn could have been brought there through causality, but he wasn't, or he was spared in some way. That's a significant, weighty result of that event. It draws attention to itself in a way that's not in keeping with this scene, in which he's simply "The know-it-all kid."