Elden Ring (New From Soft Game)

Not really, I mean I consider myself quite knowledgeable about video games as a medium and I also happen to understand From Software's method of storytelling pretty well. I've greatly enjoyed their work over the past 12 years, but like I said, if you look for flaws or inconsistencies, you will find them. Especially if you consider discrepancies between the narrative and the gameplay.
Fair enough. I wasn't claiming their games are perfect anyway. All I meant was that some perceived flaws are not necessarily negatives, given their style and chosen medium.
And it's fine! No work of such complexity is ever perfect.
On this, my perfectionism compels me to disagree. I firmly believe perfection to be achievable. Naturally, increased complexity makes it harder to reach, but not impossible.

Case in point: our favorite manga. I genuinely can't think of any flaws in it, not counting trivial and minor things like a panel where Casca lost her shoes for example.
What matters most in a game is that it is fun, and their games are fun. Which is basically my point: sometimes trying to find ways for everything make sense in every regard is just a waste of time for the player.
That's definitely true and I admit to sometimes getting bogged down trying to make sense of everything. It's a habit I'm trying to shake off and it used to be much worse.

---

Now I'm using my new favorite weapon as I barrel through NG+2: the sword of night and flame. It sure freshened things up. I also explored more of the Raya Lucaria academy and was shocked to find an entire section I never visited before.
 
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Walter

Administrator
Staff member
I haven't made a ton of progress since arriving on the giant's mountain. I backtracked when I realized there was a whole chunk of Caelid I hadn’t touched (west side and the giant pot guy).

I was puzzled when I first saw its location. So I put a marker on the map, which of course makes a big beam of light appear in the world. Then hours later while exploring the underground, saw the same beam of light. Hmmm! Then I saw the elevator below matched the missing place above. Discoveries like this are my favorite part of the game (well, that and the combat). Developing a theory, acting on it, and then still being surprised. The game is full of that stuff.

Still, I think my latter game experience was marred by doing things “out of order.” I spent too much time in the opening zone, then was scared of Caelid, so when I hit Liurnia, I doubled down on it—did virtually everything there before moving on to the capital. And only THEN went to Caelid. As a result, I feel like I struggled for the first half, but I’ve been stomping on things for 30-40 hours without much of a challenge. But maybe that's just what mainlining the game with a Moonveil does :chomp:

Speaking of which, after doing Sellen's questline, I ended up with some rad spells. So I've started to put that INT to some actual use more, and I quite enjoy spellcasting. The major setback is that you have to cycle through your full list of equipped spells instead of being able to assign them to buttons. That would be a game-changer...
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
First off, congratulations to Griff for his newborn!

Thanks to you and everyone else for the well wishes!

One thing I don't get, and would love if you guys can explain to me, is the disconnect between the narrative and the gameplay where this boss is concerned. I mean, in the story, Malenia and Radahn are supposed equals in strength. In the gameplay, however, Radahn is the far easier boss. And you fight him at a lower level than when you fight Malenia. I don't know if I'm missing something or if this is a mistake, which would be weird as Miyazaki is excellent at blending gameplay and narrative together. This would seem a strange oversight.

What Aaz said, I'd only add it was a clever narrative trick for neither Radahn or Malenia to lose face as either "the strongest demigod" or "undefeated in battle," respectively. Nobody was defeated but everyone lost. I'd also point out that practically speaking Radahn and Malenia perform similar functions of being huge optional bosses to test you, but Radahn is early game and Malenia is late, so of course they're power is adjusted according to your prospective level at that point.

Anyway, I'm at NG+2. I switched to a onehanded weapon to change things up a little, but it's not as magical as that first playthrough, naturally. One problem with an exploration based game is that once you've explored it, it won't be as fun in subsequent runs. Oh well.

That's where the level 1 run really shines, whereas NG+ is covering the same ground only less challenging, at level 1 everything after the starting area takes on a completely different atmosphere, and almost every item is something of interest or use in some situation because you'll need to switch your loadout accordingly to get get the stats and abilities you need to get. I've explored and done far more in this playthrough than my regular one, used so many more weapons, items and builds, often specifically tailored to each area/boss, which all require an entirely different level of strategy to overcome, and in my mind this is now my primary game.

Bring on the DLC soon, FromSoft! And the Bloodborne patch/remaster/remake/whatever already, for the love of God :azan:.

Well, I doubt they'll do a remaster themselves, most likely that would be another Sony/Bluepoint joint to follow the excellent Demon's Souls remake, but even a simple patch like DS3 to run at 1080p 60fps would be fucking welcome. I doubt that'll ever happen either though, especially if there IS a remake in the works. I feel like they could get away with a remaster on that one. Bloodborne is still gorgeous, already better looking than Elden Ring; you up it to 4K 60fps and it's good to go. Not that I'd mind a full next gen revamp!

So that's my take. I don't know if I managed to change your mind, but I hope I didn't bore you with an incoherent post at least :ganishka:

Aaz and I were discussing this the other day actually and came to the same conclusion: From Soft's games are so engaging because the drama is the gameplay.

Case in point: our favorite manga. I genuinely can't think of any flaws in it

Well, actually, there was that one time...

not counting trivial and minor things like a panel where Casca lost her shoes for example.

... :farnese:

Well, uh... don't forget Guts having sex with an Apostle in the first few pages! No brand reaction either way, hmmm!?

I haven't made a ton of progress since arriving on the giant's mountain. I backtracked when I realized there was a whole chunk of Caelid I hadn’t touched
I think my latter game experience was marred by doing things “out of order.” I spent too much time in the opening zone, then was scared of Caelid, so when I hit Liurnia, I doubled down on it—did virtually everything there before moving on to the capital. And only THEN went to Caelid. As a result, I feel like I struggled for the first half, but I’ve been stomping on things for 30-40 hours without much of a challenge.

I wouldn't get too bogged down trying to do everything in order at the expense of your forward momentum. If you skip Caelid or whatever until the end, it'll be more fun cleaning it up easily as a reward later than trying to check every box before giving yourself permission to continue your own natural progression. The Elden Ring cookie crumbles differently for everyone.

But maybe that's just what mainlining the game with a Moonveil does :chomp:

Just wait until you get Rivers of Blood. :carcus:

The major setback is that you have to cycle through your full list of equipped spells instead of being able to assign them to buttons. That would be a game-changer...

I didn't even discover the triangle + d-pad shortcuts until NG+. :ganishka:
 
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Walter

Administrator
Staff member
I didn't even discover the triangle + d-pad shortcuts until NG+
Other than the essentially mandatory Torrent shortcut (mine is UP), I've actually been using shortcuts like these for flasks since the first few hours of my playthrough. Triangle/Y+left for magic flask, triangle/Y+right for health.

Sounds complicated, but what it does is dedicate a button combination that you can use immediately, anytime—no matter what you incidentally have slotted for Square/X.

No more mid-fight mixups: "Shit... I needed to heal, not have Prattling Pate say: YOU'RE BEAUTIFUL!"
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Other than the essentially mandatory Torrent shortcut (mine is UP), I've actually been using shortcuts like these for flasks since the first few hours of my playthrough. Triangle/Y+left for magic flask, triangle/Y+right for health.

Sounds complicated, but what it does is dedicate a button combination that you can use immediately, anytime—no matter what you incidentally have slotted for Square/X.

Mine are Down = Torrent, Left = Lantern (comes in real handy, actually), Up = Summon, Right = Physick. I used to have my Telescope set to Up (so all the directions would actually correspond to my characters hands/body movements =), but it wasn't particularly useful, I think a bow works better actually, and on the rare occasions you want the use it it's usually not situationally inconvenient to just open your inventory.

I considered putting my flasks on there too, but I don't like the extra button press required. Even summoning Torrent in the thick of it isn't ideal for me this way, but it's reasonable considering it's often a big, desperate manuever. I usually only have my flasks on my item bar anyway, one press to use, or a down press to switch either way, and, potential mixups aside, after all these years, "I have to carry into the battle the weapon my hand is used to."
 
What Aaz said, I'd only add it was a clever narrative trick for neither Radahn or Malenia to lose face as either "the strongest demigod" or "undefeated in battle," respectively. Nobody was defeated but everyone lost. I'd also point out that practically speaking Radahn and Malenia perform similar functions of being huge optional bosses to test you, but Radahn is early game and Malenia is late, so of course they're power is adjusted according to your prospective level at that point.
I really like the bold part.

And yes, a late game boss should be stronger but the narrative disconnect I thought was there bugged me. Glad Aaz's explanation cleared that up.
That's where the level 1 run really shines, whereas NG+ is covering the same ground only less challenging, at level 1 everything after the starting area takes on a completely different atmosphere, and almost every item is something of interest or use in some situation because you'll need to switch your loadout accordingly to get get the stats and abilities you need to get. I've explored and done far more in this playthrough than my regular one, used so many more weapons, items and builds, often specifically tailored to each area/boss, which all require an entirely different level of strategy to overcome, and in my mind this is now my primary game.
That sounds cool and fucking nuts. I don't know if I have what it takes for this kind of run, but never say never, eh?
Well, I doubt they'll do a remaster themselves, most likely that would be another Sony/Bluepoint joint to follow the excellent Demon's Souls remake, but even a simple patch like DS3 to run at 1080p 60fps would be fucking welcome. I doubt that'll ever happen either though, especially if there IS a remake in the works. I feel like they could get away with a remaster on that one. Bloodborne is still gorgeous, already better looking than Elden Ring; you up it to 4K 60fps and it's good to go. Not that I'd mind a full next gen revamp!
An insider at Sony claimed that 'Sony isn't done with Bloodborne yet' a few weeks ago. Yet another vague teaser.

The only explanation on why they didn't just patch the damn thing is a remaster or a remake. Although, a friend of mine proposed the absurd 'explanation' that we haven't had a patch yet because FromSoft lost the Bloodborne source code :ganishka: . I can't even...with some people.

A Bluepoint remake would be insane, and I hope whoever remakes it would add more Yharnam to explore. I've always had this sore spot regarding Bloodborne, that they spent their time of those chalice dungeons over expanding Yharnam itself, which I would have greatly preferred.
Aaz and I were discussing this the other day actually and came to the same conclusion: From Soft's games are so engaging because the drama is the gameplay.
That's how I've believed video games should be made for years. Proper use of the medium. It's why I find Shadow of the Colossus or The Last Guardian or Zelda BotW or FromSoft games infinitely more compelling than The Last of Us or any Metal Gear Solid or most Final Fantasies.

"I got chased by angry goblins because I stole their food" is so much more rewarding and exciting, in a video game context, than "Joel and Ellie had an emotional moment in an abandoned farmhouse" or "Solid Snake comforted a depressed Raiden by telling him he was the lightning in the rain that took place on the day of his birth" (Yuck. Kojima's the worst).
Well, actually, there was that one time...

... :farnese:

Well, uh... don't forget Guts having sex with an Apostle in the first few pages! No brand reaction either way, hmmm!?
:ganishka:

As I said, minor things like that shouldn't count. They're like a few harmless atoms/particles that crept into a glass of water. The water is still crystal clear and safe to drink and your experience is not damaged. Calling them "flaws" is a little much, in my opinion.

(Though we could just say that us not seeing a brand reaction doesn't mean it didn't happen in universe...:schnoz:)
 
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Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
That sounds cool and fucking nuts. I don't know if I have what it takes for this kind of run, but never say never, eh?

Well, save for a few of the endgame bosses, once you acquire and properly upgrade the right weapons and gear it's mostly not so bad. Mainly, if you're really looking to magnify and drill down deep into the game's mechanics, abilities and especially the bosses, which all become like their own event, on a fundamental level, this is the way. I went into it with no expectations of actually following through, just wanted to give it a try, but over a hundred hours later on this character and it's my preferred way to play.

An insider at Sony claimed that 'Sony isn't done with Bloodborne yet' a few weeks ago. Yet another vague teaser.

Vague indeed, that could pretty much mean anything, or nothing except they'll continue to feature it on PS Now.

The only explanation on why they didn't just patch the damn thing is a remaster or a remake.

Eh, it might just be it was too late and too much trouble for From Soft to care (they never even bothered to patch the glitched Isz dungeons). It's not like they're going to sell extra copies now, and yeah, why would they or Sony do that when a remaster would be better and allow them another bite at the apple.

Although, a friend of mine proposed the absurd 'explanation' that we haven't had a patch yet because FromSoft lost the Bloodborne source code :ganishka: . I can't even...with some people.

I mean, something like that doesn't sound too far fetched to me either. =)

It could be as simple as it's messy and therefore too much trouble like I said.

A Bluepoint remake would be insane, and I hope whoever remakes it would add more Yharnam to explore. I've always had this sore spot regarding Bloodborne, that they spent their time of those chalice dungeons over expanding Yharnam itself, which I would have greatly preferred.

Strongly disagree, if anything the Chalice Dungeons would be the feature ripe for expansion without bastardizing the main game, and as-is are one of the coolest unique features of that game, practically, thematically and narratively, and without it just being borrowed from another Souls game under another name. I'd also argue the contents and parallel story of the main Chalice Dungeons IS more Yharnam to explore. Not to mention the customization and glyphs and all the crazy shit people have unlocked with those, including new enemies, bosses and even cut content. Like I said, Elden Ring is huge but Bloodborne is infinite. They're not going to be discovering new enemies or locations in Elden Ring five years from now.

That's how I've believed video games should be made for years. Proper use of the medium. It's why I find Shadow of the Colossus or The Last Guardian or Zelda BotW or FromSoft games infinitely more compelling than The Last of Us or any Metal Gear Solid or most Final Fantasies.

"I got chased by angry goblins because I stole their food" is so much more rewarding and exciting, in a video game context, than "Joel and Ellie had an emotional moment in an abandoned farmhouse" or "Solid Snake comforted a depressed Raiden by telling him he was the lightning in the rain that took place on the day of his birth" (Yuck. Kojima's the worst).

You know what though, Kojima actually got there with Metal Gear Solid V in the end: it was an open sandbox where the radio chatter didn't interfere with the gameplay and the between mission cutscenes were compelling and a reasonable and rewarding length (like a few minutes each), plus the game was explicitly, thematically about YOU literally becoming Big Boss. So, it was very much in this vein.

As I said, minor things like that shouldn't count. They're like a few harmless atoms/particles that crept into a glass of water. The water is still crystal clear and safe to drink and your experience is not damaged. Calling them "flaws" is a little much, in my opinion.

They're technically flaws, but no, they're not fatal, just harmless mistakes or things he further developed or changed his mind about later. They're the exceptions that prove the rule and make me appreciate the insanely high quality more and not take it for granted, because it didn't have to be that way. Most series and creators would fall off after so long, but Miura kept improving and raising his standards to the point it seemed Berserk was becoming untenable to regularly produce at that level of detail. Even then he didn't take a step back but instead tried to raise up and improve his team to make it more sustainable. Crazy stuff in retrospect.

(Though we could just say that us not seeing a brand reaction doesn't mean it didn't happen in universe...:schnoz:)

So they both just pretended that they didn't feel the brand even though they both knew the other could feel it too? I can do this for 20 more years. :daiba:
 
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Vague indeed, that could pretty much mean anything, or nothing except they'll continue to feature it on PS Now.
I hope it isn't so meaningless as that. Could be a Bloodborne II? But if Miyazaki's not involved, I wouldn't be too excited for that. Even if he is, Dark Souls III demonstrated he isn't much of a sequel person.

I'd still play the hell out of that though.
Eh, it might just be it was too late and too much trouble for From Soft to care (they never even bothered to patch the glitched Isz dungeons). It's not like they're going to sell extra copies now, and yeah, why would they or Sony do that when a remaster would be better and allow them another bite at the apple.
I considered the possibility that it might be too messy, but I doubt that, given Sekiro. That game has what I assume to be a similar overall code structure and engine, and it functions wonderfully on the PS5. In any case, surely they can get past any hurdles to patch the thing, especially when there's high demand for it.
I mean, something like that doesn't sound too far fetched to me either. =)
It's just that imagining Miyazaki and Co scrambling around the FromSoft office, trying to salvage the source code of one of their best games, is hilarious to me.
Strongly disagree, if anything the Chalice Dungeons would be the feature ripe for expansion without bastardizing the main game, and as-is are one of the coolest unique features of that game, practically, thematically and narratively, and without it just being borrowed from another Souls game under another name. I'd also argue the contents and parallel story of the main Chalice Dungeons IS more Yharnam to explore. Not to mention the customization and glyphs and all the crazy shit people have unlocked with those, including new enemies, bosses and even cut content. Like I said, Elden Ring is huge but Bloodborne is infinite. They're not going to be discovering new enemies or locations in Elden Ring five years from now.
I'm of course happy to see positive takes on the dungeons, such as yours. I don't think they're a bad thing at all. I just wish we still had more of the main city to explore, or that the Chalice Dungeons were integrated more organically into the setting, like maybe have their entrance under Bergynwerth, instead of feeling like extra content through the hub world. And of course, it wouldn't be too bad if we didn't have that mind numbing repetition of looking for a lever to unlock the boss door, rinse and repeat.
You know what though, Kojima actually got there with Metal Gear Solid V in the end: it was an open sandbox where the radio chatter didn't interfere with the gameplay and the between mission cutscenes were compelling and a reasonable and rewarding length (like a few minutes each), plus the game was explicitly, thematically about YOU literally becoming Big Boss. So, it was very much in this vein.
True, but he still stumbled when he designed it to be like a TV show, with opening credits to every mission that sometimes spoiled what was going to happen beforehand. I don't understand why he doesn't just go into filmmaking if that's his passion, instead of putting out this nonsense.

I wanna know how Death Stranding is like in that respect. I'll wait until it sells for $15 first.
They're technically flaws, but no, they're not fatal, just harmless mistakes or things he further developed or changed his mind about later. They're the exceptions that prove the rule and make me appreciate the insanely high quality more and not take it for granted, because it didn't have to be that way. Most series and creators would fall off after so long, but Miura kept improving and raising his standards to the point it seemed Berserk was becoming untenable to regularly produce at that level of detail. Even then he didn't take a step back but instead tried to raise up and improve his team to make it more sustainable. Crazy stuff in retrospect.
It hardly needs to be said, but yes Miura was an exceptional author.

Despite all that, I still would call his work perfect, as my definition of the word is more lenient and reachable than the usual understanding. Basically no noteworthy weaknesses or, worse, gross defects or, even worse, fatal flaws, as you called them. Little mistakes don't matter, as in the water glass analogy.
So they both just pretended that they didn't feel the brand even though they both knew the other could feel it too? I can do this for 20 more years. :daiba:
Ha! How about this: that wasn't Guts at all. It was Corkus in his final moments, having a mix of a dream and nightmare in the sense of getting laid and being Guts respectively.

I'm enjoying this, so here's my, er, "serious" response: as for the apostle, she knew who Guts was, having seen him in the Eclipse, and "trapped" him like she did Corkus. As for Guts, if he can fight an Apostle with the pain of that brand, he can fuck one too!
 
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Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
I hope it isn't so meaningless as that. Could be a Bloodborne II? But if Miyazaki's not involved, I wouldn't be too excited for that.

Yeah, I can't say I'd be to enthused about the prospect of bastardized Bloodborne.

Even if he is, Dark Souls III demonstrated he isn't much of a sequel person.

Ouch, but I'll do you one better: I'm still waiting for him to make a second game! :troll:

I considered the possibility that it might be too messy, but I doubt that, given Sekiro. That game has what I assume to be a similar overall code structure and engine, and it functions wonderfully on the PS5. In any case, surely they can get past any hurdles to patch the thing, especially when there's high demand for it.

Well, for whatever reason they haven't, whether there's some hurdle or just lack of motivation to go back to a seven year old game while they're clearly keeping busy.

It's just that imagining Miyazaki and Co scrambling around the FromSoft office, trying to salvage the source code of one of their best games, is hilarious to me.

This is basically the rumor for why Rockstar never released Red Dead on PC, it was such a fucking mess of code they couldn't get it to work off the consoles they originally made it for. True custom job!

I'm of course happy to see positive takes on the dungeons, such as yours. I don't think they're a bad thing at all. I just wish we still had more of the main city to explore, or that the Chalice Dungeons were integrated more organically into the setting, like maybe have their entrance under Bergynwerth, instead of feeling like extra content through the hub world.

The cool thing about that though is how they existed outside of the main game progression, including NG+. Plus, it's no more disembodied in the Hunter's Dream than the rest of the world.

And of course, it wouldn't be too bad if we didn't have that mind numbing repetition of looking for a lever to unlock the boss door, rinse and repeat.

Now that's a fair point, and why I cited it as something that could definitely be expanded and improved without messing with the integrity of the original game's vision. But, as basically an added bonus dungeon crawler, with it's own unique enemies, bosses and environments and story, it's a pretty incredible cherry on top.

True, but he still stumbled when he designed it to be like a TV show, with opening credits to every mission that sometimes spoiled what was going to happen beforehand. I don't understand why he doesn't just go into filmmaking if that's his passion, instead of putting out this nonsense.

Nonsense? Well, that was a pretty incredible game among many classics to his name (Metal Gear 1 & 2, Snatcher, MGS, MGS3, even the ones that go off the rails like MGS2 are pretty remarkable games), so I wouldn't throw it out because he has cinematic pretentions.

I wanna know how Death Stranding is like in that respect. I'll wait until it sells for $15 first.

Complete relapse into hours long cutscenes, BUT, otherwise the gameplay is really original and very much the drama (literally not dropping cargo can be so intense =). It's kind of both, you have the pure open world gameplay, and you have the movies in-between.

I'm enjoying this, so here's my, er, "serious" response: as for the apostle, she knew who Guts was, having seen him in the Eclipse, and "trapped" him like she did Corkus. As for Guts, if he can fight an Apostle with the pain of that brand, he can fuck one too!

There's a scene we didn't get: Guts confessing to giving into his temptation and hate fucking an apostle. I think it would have come between Griffith's redemption and Theresia finally finishing Guts off.
 
Yeah, I can't say I'd be to enthused about the prospect of bastardized Bloodborne.
I'm shameless though, so I'll play it anyway, as I said :farnese:
The cool thing about that though is how they existed outside of the main game progression, including NG+. Plus, it's no more disembodied in the Hunter's Dream than the rest of the world.

Now that's a fair point, and why I cited it as something that could definitely be expanded and improved without messing with the integrity of the original game's vision. But, as basically an added bonus dungeon crawler, with it's own unique enemies, bosses and environments and story, it's a pretty incredible cherry on top.
I suppose that's a good way of interpretating the dungeons, as a generous bonus that doesn't detract from the main experience. If they come back in future FromSoft games, I hope they're improved as we discussed.
Nonsense? Well, that was a pretty incredible game among many classics to his name (Metal Gear 1 & 2, Snatcher, MGS, MGS3, even the ones that go off the rails like MGS2 are pretty remarkable games), so I wouldn't throw it out because he has cinematic pretentions.
I was criticizing some design decisions in particular, not the whole game (like I do when I roast TLoU Part II for its "writing"). I do enjoy his games (I wouldn't have played five MGS's if I didn't), with Snake Eater being my favorite by far (probably because his team kept him in check, so it turned out better than the rest). So my comments, while harsh, come from a place of love!

It's just that I wish devs would just come to terms with the fact they're making games, and not feel ashamed of that or trying to emulate other mediums. And I think Kojima is a big offender in that respect.
There's a scene we didn't get: Guts confessing to giving into his temptation and hate fucking an apostle. I think it would have come between Griffith's redemption and Theresia finally finishing Guts off.
Okay. That's hard to top off :ganishka: :ganishka: :ganishka:
 
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Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
I'm shameless though, so I'll play it anyway, as I said :farnese:

I would also most likely give it a try, depending on who developed it and how it turns out, but I'd obviously prefer a sequel from Miyazaki or the Bluepoint remake treatment.

I suppose that's a good way of interpretating the dungeons, as a generous bonus that doesn't detract from the main experience. If they come back in future FromSoft games, I hope they're improved as we discussed.

Well, in a way they did return in Elden Ring, but as the various catacombs throughout the world. So, basically what you wanted and the best of both worlds.

I was criticizing some design decisions in particular, not the whole game (like I do when I roast TLoU Part II for its "writing"). I do enjoy his games (I wouldn't have played five MGS's if I didn't), with Snake Eater being my favorite by far (probably because his team kept him in check, so it turned out better than the rest). So my comments, while harsh, come from a place of love!

That's a little rich after you basically tried to deny him credit for his own masterwork in the previous sentence. I always take this stuff with a grain of salt, like Miyazaki's purported lack of involvement with DSII, "the B team hurrr", when he might have been just as involved as he purportedly is now as some overseer, but wise enough to credit himself as a director because fans understand that means he's involved and it gives his involvement and the product credibility.

In general I find it weird how people try to quantify, or choose to perceive, creator's responsibility for their own work, myself included. George Lucas for example, with people either crediting him for the work of everyone on the franchise and EU, or basically saying Star Wars succeeded despite him, crediting Marcia Lucas' editing, Gary Kurtz' producing, Kershner and Kasdan in Empire while minimizing Lucas' involvement in the monumental sequel, which were all especially popular opinions post-prequels. Both positions are ridiculous of course, but it goes to show our tendency to paint creators as either gods or frauds.

It's just that I wish devs would just come to terms with the fact they're making games, and not feel ashamed of that or trying to emulate other mediums. And I think Kojima is a big offender in that respect.

Yeah, but if Kojima wasn't trying to emulate cinema in games he wouldn't have made such good games, or elevated the medium by showing it shared the strengths of another. That's the essence of creative alchemy, not necessarily shame. Him going nuts on some of those interminable cutscenes just shows he's in the exact right place as a game developer, not a filmmaker.

Okay. That's hard to top off :ganishka: :ganishka: :ganishka:

Good thing Miura's assistants no doubt kept all that in check. :griffnotevil:
 
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Well, in a way they did return in Elden Ring, but as the various catacombs throughout the world. So, basically what you wanted and the best of both worlds.
Huh. I didn't think of them that way. Good point.
That's a little rich after you basically tried to deny him credit for his own work in the previous sentence. I always take this stuff with a grain of salt, like Miyazaki's purported lack of involvement with DSII, "the B team hurrr", when he might have been just as involved as he purportedly is now as some overseer, but wise enough to credit himself as a director because fans give that credit and it gives the product credibility.
I wasn't trying to deny him credit at all, I assure you, despite my probably poor choice of wording. He's a brilliant man. But even brilliant creators need others to hold them back from themselves at times, whether it's a developer and his team or a writer and his editor. Unbridled brilliance can often backfire on itself.

I experienced that myself as an aspiring writer (not calling myself brilliant btw). Without daring to compare myself to Kojima or any established writer at all, I will say that I still had to have people tell me I went too far or indulged myself a little too much here and there. And the result of listening to them made me improve of course. It's just how the creative process works sometimes, and I don't believe it takes away from a writer's credit to say that others advised him or kept him in check at all. It's not the same as saying the work succeeded despite him, in my opinion.

Of course I could be totally off the mark when it comes to MGS3, but that game is markedly different from the rest with its more restrained approach to the usual Kojimish stuff, with comparatively fewer excesses or cheesy writing. Fine. Kojima showed more restraint when writing that one, I'll put it that way. I hope this does better by him.

As for DS II, I really, really doubt Miyazaki was too involved with it. It's just so different from the rest of FromSoft's titles. Plus, he was probably busy with making Bloodborne at the time.
In general I find it weird how people try to quantify, or choose to perceive, creator's responsibility for their own work, myself included. George Lucas for example, with people either crediting him for the work of everyone on the franchise and EU, or basically saying Star Wars succeeded despite him, crediting Marcia Lucas' editing, Gary Kurtz' producing, Kershner and Kasdan in Empire while minimizing Lucas' involvement in the monumental sequel, which were all especially popular opinions post-prequels. Both positions are ridiculous of course, but it goes to show our tendency to paint creators as either gods or frauds.
I'm afraid I'm not as experienced with Star Wars as you are, so I wouldn't know about any of that. But I did hear that some folks have started suddenly praising or appreciating the prequel trilogy, hence Lucas, after the Disney trilogy was made, so you're probably on point here haha.
Yeah, but if Kojima wasn't trying to emulate cinema in games he wouldn't have made such good games, or elevated the medium by showing it shared the strengths of another. That's the essence of creative alchemy, not necessarily shame. Him going nuts on some of those interminable cutscenes just shows he's in the exact right place as a game developer, not a filmmaker.
Again, everything in excess can end up backfiring at times. But yes, he did elevate the medium in some aspects and pioneered an entire genre. Not gonna deny that.
Good thing Miura's assistants no doubt kept all that in check. :griffnotevil:
Miura who? They're the true heroes, the unsung champions :guts:
 
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Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
I experienced that myself as an aspiring writer (not calling myself brilliant btw). Without daring to compare myself to Kojima or any established writer at all, I will say that I still had to have people tell me I went too far or indulged myself a little too much here and there. And the result of listening to them made me improve of course. It's just how the creative process works sometimes, and I don't believe it takes away from a writer's credit to say that others advised him or kept him in check at all. It's not the same as saying the work succeeded despite him, in my opinion.

Got it, and if there's one thing we know Kojima isn't good at it's "killing his babies." If anybody needed an editor they could trust...

Of course I could be totally off the mark when it comes to MGS3, but that game is markedly different from the rest with its more restrained approach to the usual Kojimish stuff, with comparatively fewer excesses or cheesy writing. Fine. Kojima showed more restraint when writing that one, I'll put it that way. I hope this does better by him.

Well, I think the natural restraints of the time and setting helped, but he still had some pretty crazy stuff in there! It just all worked in that case. Also, until MGS2 it's not like Kojima's stuff was that off the rails, so MGS3 could be seen as more of a return to the mean. Anecdotally, I knew a lot of people turned off of MGS3 because MGS2 basically ruined the series' rep, and then MGS4 solidified that, which is a shame. In the end, Kojima's self-indulgence finally killed the franchise before the final game could even be finished.

As for DS II, I really, really doubt Miyazaki was too involved with it. It's just so different from the rest of FromSoft's titles. Plus, he was probably busy with making Bloodborne at the time.

My point is we really don't know and perception becomes the reality, and for that game it was that Miyazaki was hands off and therefore "the b team" made it (think of some of the wrong and ignorant shit repeated about Miura's creative process over the years). For all we know he was actually more directly involved than he is now running the whole damn company while still serving as creative director. I don't doubt his attention was focused on Bloodborne, and maybe that was one he was REALLY into the nitty gritty on, but I'm skeptical he didn't have any time for DS2 yet somehow had time to co-develop Bloodborne, DS3 the next year(!), Sekiro and Elden Ring simutaneously at various times. BTW, the co-director of Dark Souls II's latest directorial effort? Elden Ring! I guess they got better.

I'm afraid I'm not as experienced with Star Wars as you are, so I wouldn't know about any of that. But I did hear that some folks have started suddenly praising or appreciating the prequel trilogy, hence Lucas, after the Disney trilogy was made, so you're probably on point here haha.

While I don't buy the prequel revisionism, some of which is marketing now for the Obi- Wan show (it's selling nostalgia for something I hated =), making it all someone else's problem was the best thing for Lucas' relationship to fans; we don't have George to blame or kick around anymore, so now we can indulge in hagiography and just give him credit for how much better Star Wars was under his stewardship. :ganishka:

Honesty, the good (the trilogy, the classic EU novels, LucasArts, etc) so outweighed the bad, but the bad happened to be incredibly bad and prominently so (the new movies everyone had been waiting almost two decades for). I think his biggest sin was the vanity of insisting he direct those movies when he was clearly a producer at heart, thus why he hadn't directed a film in over 20 years since then. He still revolutionized filmmaking (again) with those movies, but at the cost of them being sucky CGI experiments. If he'd just hired talented writers and directors to work with the story and actors in a more traditional approach they could have been fine. Alas...
 
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Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
More Elden Ring Rune Level 1 running diary!

5/7
I got Malenia down to halfway in her second phase, and I can knock out her first phase in under a minute; sooner or later, it's happening.

5/10
Or not, since approximately 10,000 tries later that's still about the best I can do. I tried every cheesy gimmick too, I'm sending in the Mimic all tanked up with the heaviest poise armor and strongest damage and healing miracles and he went down pathetically like one of those bad Robocop II prototypes. I just exited the game mid-fight after that, "I'll show myself out." :farnese:

I'm still stuck in-between trying to play semi-normally with defense buffs and the reality of my fragility anyway, because she hits hard enough to 1-shot me even with the buffs and can easily combo me up at any time. I just need to hit rock bottom and go full offense and die a hundred more times until I get lucky being hyper aggressive (which actually works well against her given her relatively weak poise). No sense in waiting for that damn wind dance attack to come out and wipe me out, even with a shield up. I can survive it if I'm ready, but she always seems to start it up at the worst time for me positionally or while I'm stuck in a recovery animation. Basically instant death.

What I do now is let her walk to the front of the cave so me and Tiche can hopefully gangbang her against a rockface. That's how I can get her to phase 2 in like 30 seconds... that phase 2 though, half the time I'm DOA from dodging that initial attack, with the camera moving on me so I roll into the aftershock/rot instead of away. She will also completely ignore your summon at that point and come for your ass from across the entire arena. I literally tried just running away and surviving and she wasn't having it.

Rivers of Blood hasn't been effective for me either because you still need to stand in there and proc it, and it's a long animation, so if she doesn't stagger, bleed or fall down it's probably checkmate. Plus, because I'm level 1 I have to invest in a bunch of gear to raise my Arcane, Dex etc, which lowers my damage/defense potential otherwise. So, in this case, you're probably better off spamming bloody curved swords with maximum blood+damage gear equipped.

There's dudes that take her out in less than a minute at RL1 on NG+7! But they spend like a minute beforehand adding crazy buffs and rare consumables, and of course, if you get hit once by a glancing blow you're fucking dead. I'm basically going to try to replicate that as best I can but without using the finite consumables until I'm at the point I know I can do it with those getting me over the hump. Hopefully it happens before that point though.

5/13
I'm experimenting with using a shield for a more consistently survivable style. I already equip a shield against her in case I need to throw it up during her wind dance, so I'll see if that's the way to go for more of the fight. My last resort is to basically activate every damage booster in the game and try to take her out in a few shots. I just don't want to try that prematurely like I did the sleep pots with the Godskin Duo, "Wait, the Trina's Lily's don't respawn like every other craftable... fuuuuck."

5/14
Tried a Brass Shield at +24 with high guard boost (lowers stamina usage) against Malekith with the Serpent Spear and... NOT bad! I'm so anti-shield I didn't even experiment to see what upgrading them did in this game (I usually never find it worth it). Maybe this is gonna change the whole way I play this run. I could really go toe to toe with him and just fucking around like this I got him phase 2 and lasted awhile, with a little practice to really see how to employ it this holds a lot of potential (I put the Barricade Shield Ash on it too to truly reduce stamina loss to practically nothing when needed). Maybe I'll upgrade a plain spear, add blood or whatever the boss is weak to and then just stand in there poking and proc'ing.

I see why I didn't bother upgrading shields before too, it only upgrades the guard boost intermittently, so it didn't indicate it would go up at +1 and I saw no reason to increase the bash damage, etc.

5/16
The wife and kids went over to the in-laws for a few hours today, leaving me behind to clean up. So, I didn't waste time and immediately fired up my RL1 character! Then proceeded to "clean up" Malekith, Gideon (R1 spammed to death on the first try as expected, I didn't even tweak my loadout from the Malekith fight for maximum disrespect), AND Godfrey(!) too! Was not expecting that last one to fall so quickly, let alone in the same play session as Malekith. Anyway, I gave Radagon a look to see if they fixed that bug where he won't aggro if you run up on him before he turns around, and after a short delay it seems they unfortunately did. =) I'll use that opening though to hopefully try spamming poise breaking attacks, which is how I ultimately beat Malekith; basically chain stun-locked him.

5/19
I'm trying every trick in the book to get past Radagon and he just one shots me so quickly and easily. You really see the difference between these guys when there's no mistakes allowed and you find out who really smacks. At first I wasn't impressed with Radagon and the Elden Beast (still not sure about the latter, maybe I'd have preferred Elden "Being") as the big finale, nor was I even fully sure it was the ending in the moment, but Radagon and his whole story has completely won me over. I even did the statue quest in this run despite that it took every intelligence item and buff possible to pull off.

5/21
I still haven't killed Malenia in RL1 yet, but I did get the old Dragonlord Paladaladex or whatever at Crumbling Faram Azula. It's basically down to her and Elden Beast since I have beaten Radagon a few times now. But then there's still some stragglers out there, but they're so low to mid tier my blood blades will eviscerate them in seconds! To that end I took out the Dragonkin Soldier, the Rot Dragon, and next up is the goofy sacred Deer Ancestors. I don't even think I've beaten that first Wyrm enemy that gives you the Moonveil. Lots of backtracking to do!

5/24
Now I'm just trying to improve my gear for resisting holy damage for Elden Beast. I've already got a pretty good system for taking down Radagon without using my flasks, basically dual flame swords with a big Redmane's Flame Ash of War that'll poise break him every three hits. I just have to make sure I don't get overambitious and end up getting smashed.

I'm trying to figure out how to have enough strength for a Sacred Haligtree Greatshield to basically mitigate virtually ALL Holy Damage, then just play it safe (there's issues though, like it may require a Rune Arc and/or my Physick, which will add a time limit). The Brass shield isn't a bad alternative if it proves unsustainable or too anemic, maybe whatever shield has the highest holy resist but I can use it without time or resource limited gimmicks.

5/25
After fighting him for the umpteenth time I realized why Radagon's design is so appealing: he's the Elden Ring equivalent of a Tyrant!

Anyway, I tried the upgraded Brass Shield +24 and all holy mitigation talismans this morning with some success, my only issue is keeping my health up without Radagon's Soreseal. I'm trying to find that balance of super high 60+ Holy Resistance but with enough HP for it to actually help me survive. As long as I can tank the 1st hit off Radagon's attacks I'm golden, but the Elden Beast and his fucking tracking and AoE bullshit is another story. He's like the one boss that actually plays smart and hangs back zoning be YOU out!

I've had mixed results with a shield there and might just go with pure dodging and strafing if I can figure out the movements. The simpler my options the better, that's what got me more consistent against Radagon. The first two thirds of that fight are basically choreographed to me now, literally: Use Physick outside fog door, enter, summon Tiche to take his attention, Flame of the Redmanes x3, poise break and critical attack, Flame him as he stands, Flame and/or tank his foot stomp, heal, then roll through his levitating hammer smash, Flame him once or twice as necessary, poise break and critical... then I just have to survive his triple hammer smash that basically covers the whole ground and I'm in good shape, fight might even be over already depending on Tiche's Death Dagger RNG.

But then, If I'm not aggressive enough against the Elden Beast this fight could go on forever, or, more likely, until I inevitably make the wrong move. I haven't played the Beastie enough to really have a full strategy yet like Radagon, just seeing how long I can survive against what he throws at me until he gets me or no longer can. With the Elden Beast I tried the Holy Ground Ash to combat his huge ground AoE with the enclosing circle, and actually survived the hit(!), only for him to immediately follow up with his wave beams and kill me anyway. =)

As I've been learning the hard way, I think HP is more important in this game than any of From Soft's previous where you could pretty reasonably get by with moderately low HP. Not so when the end bosses will easily stomp you for 1000 damage if you're not careful. Like, Bloodborne at BL4 was unforgiving, but it wasn't like ER where super high HP seems expected, probably because of how big and long this game is. They baked becoming OP into the cake.

I feel like you could get by with way less investment in vigor/vitality in the previous games; of course, just pumping stamina and health and leaving the damage to your weapon upgrades is always a good build in these games. Hell, in DS2 you could probably get by with even less vit because leveling at all increased HP a minor amount, and you wouldn't even want to pump it to take advantage because you need to boost so many stats in that game just to not gimp your character... Hmmm, come to think of it, maybe DS2 is the best Souls game!

5/26
I can only jump the Elden Beast's glowing death ring inconsistently, but even when I do it's too close for comfort, thus why I've been looking for an alternative where I basically up my Holy Resistance 1000x just for that attack. If he always recovers and attacks again that quickly though I'm pretty fucked. Gonna need to find a more specific Elden Beast high damage build and just wing it to get by Radagon. I don't want to re-gear between fights because all the buffing and shit is honestly just too much hassle when you just gotta keep retrying as quickly and as much as possible for the reps.

The pre-fight buffing was killing me against Malenia and Radagon so I finally just started sprinting to the gate with nothing but my two Fire Lordsworns equipped with Redmane's Flame. All I needed. If I get tired of hitting my head against the wall with the Beast I may take another stab at Malenia. That's basically what I did between her and Malekith for a while. Beast is more a priority though for the payoff, and then Malenia can be my white whale for a while until I get bored and cheese her to death somehow.

6/6
A quick non-RL1 aside, but I couldn't wait and finally did the Elden Lord ending in NG++ (I didn't want the pressure of needing to get it on RL1, to platinum the game to boot). It's just as, if not more, underwhelming than the others! I think the best one is the Frenzied Flame actually: you basically have Sauron's eye for a head and destroy the fucking world sending the flame out of the tree, and it ends with a postscript of Melina, now sporting TWO spooky eyes and raven black hair, promising to deliver to you destined death. Easily the most monumental and coolest ending.

6/12
It is accomplished! After a six day work week and another random late night session after the baby went into a milk coma, I was surprised myself when it happened. It's not like I hadn't fought this boss like a hundred times in my spare time, but from a mastery standpoint I still didn't think I was close enough or had solved all his attacks. Basically, my build and prep was strong and where I didn't "git gud" enough I did git gud RNG.

My final Radagon/Elden Beast slaying build after much and constant trial, error, and tweaking, which would have continued if I didn't actually kill the bastard, so this is by no means a definitive way: dual +9 fire pickaxes with Redmane's Flame ash of war, a seal to cast divine protection, Omenkiller mask for +2 strength for the pickaxes, bird armor for bonus jump attack damage, best gloves and pants that fit (probably traveling Maiden's, a favorite), talismans: Radagon's Soreseal, +5 strength, max HP=high defense, and dragoncrest greatshield for max defense boost (switched to +2 holy shield for Elden Beast since his physical is easy to dodge). Physick was no FP usage for my Tiche summon and strength for extra pickaxe scaling (max 32 strength).

As for the fight itself, I already posted my ideal Radagon fight template above, the trick was not sacrificing too much survivability during that matchup in preparation for the beast, because frankly most of the damage you do to the Elden Beast is up front at the very beginning and I think with the right build and buffs I could have killed him then... If not for Radagon! Anyway, I won't go over everything that DIDN'T work, with the setup above I was strong enough to reach Elden Beast and do three jumping dual smash attacks with the pickaxes on his weak spot before he spewed his golden flame, then I'd go around the side to hit him twice more for the stagger and then with any luck two more times before actually engaging the critical and getting one more attack in after. It's debatable whether it's better to do this or just attack throughout his stagger, so I didn't mind if I didn't get the critical. In any case, I started out getting about a quarter of his life off in this opening exchange, which through better weapons, extra damage and more efficient attack patterns I slowly increased to a third, then finally half or more! This is literally half the fight (and if I'd had the time to switch my talismans to all damage and use every damage buff I probably could have snuffed him out right here, but alas).

After that opening flurry he goes under, and this is the moment when the RNG comes into play, his most common move is to surface at a distance and immediately do his flying ground circle attack (which I've actually staggered him out of with Redmane's Flame), which I now relish avoiding with ease, but if he used any of his other long range, AoE or homing attacks he'd probably kill me or put me in a compromised position that would lead to him killing me with his next move. Even if did survive I'm still stuck playing this deadly game of keep away until he decides to let me get close again. Unless...

The better thing to happen is for him to engage in his melee sword attacks, because once you avoid even the first one you can start attacking again while dodging the rest, then you just hope he doesn't do another homing attack or close range explosion that ends you while you're focused on him. This time he stuck to melee, and before he went under I had taken approximately another third of his life bar off so he was down to like 10-15%! I'm not really hopeful or starting to believe yet though because I've been here before and am already dead inside...

Anyway, I am confident of what's coming next, which is the big flying circle attack, I'm just not sure if it's the going to be the single circle because he hasn't done it yet, or the triple, which I am not at all practiced at avoiding, because he's low on health... It's the single, which I easily jump through! The next move could be decisive, if he surfaces far away he's likely going to be aggressive with his long range attacks at this point, and it's probably going to be just another time I got his health tantalizing low, but...

He surfaces RIGHT NEXT TO ME! KILL! KILL KILL KILL KILL!!! I run and jump hit him once, twice, yet he's still one hit away and I'm out of stamina, he starts glowing and powering up a move while I'm desperately hitting R1 for the quickest attack possible to come out. I don't even fully see what happens, but as he fades into ash I start desperately rolling as I fully expect to also be killed by whatever fucking homing attack he's managed launched, but... nothing comes, and I've won!

GOD SLAIN
 
My health got better a bit so Im playing Elden Ring and its pretty cool. Its huge and I dont know where to start, there is so much to do, castles and caves and forests and what not. Very promising game.
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
It's never over!

6/14
Malenia is now the last big name on the hit list, and I've read from other RL1 players that Elden Beast is actually the worst for the length of the fight, it being a double boss, and the homing attacks, etc. Still, this is THE ONE in most people's minds, and a fitting coda. I haven't put the effort into this one yet as I did the last boss battle, but I have tried a lot of different builds and gimmicks: sniping her with blood bolts (doesn't work at all, she dodges 'em), blasting her with that gravity beast horn (sorta works, but not strong or sustainable enough on RL1), I've tried attacking her from the relative safety of the tree truck (she eventually jump artacks and one-shots me anyway), and, as is usually the case, I've had the most success with a straightforward combat/blood build. Either dual wielding curved blades or, most recently, Rivers of Blood. The dual curved blades was my main build for most of this run, and you can pretty much fast kill most enemies with it, save for a few pesky enemies and, most notably, the final bosses.

6/15
The Arcane/Rivers of Blood build is pretty fun, I have the arcane seal in my off hand with Swarm of Flies and other awesome afflictions (rot) and buffs, a quick switch to Banished Knight Shield with Barricade ash for her damn wind dance, and I can pretty consistently get to her 2nd phase this way, I just need to better use the time after her initial flower bomb attack to buff out and overwhelm her quickly, hopefully keeping her staggered or stun-locked before she can shake loose and one shot me. I've had a few very promising attempts in this vein getting her down to a third of her life, and I haven't even really experimented with the sort of damage or buffs I can apply to start the 2nd phase, similar to how I eventually closed the gap with the Elden Beast before the fight began. I'm probably not going to outduel her 2nd phase a dozen times to win, but if I only have to be successful in three or four exchanges? Much more manageable.

Oh yeah, apparently there was some glitch that would allow you to finish her 1st phase with a riposte and this would leave her 2nd phase with like no life... why didn't anybody tell me about this until the day AFTER it was patched! Also, I think they patched out the tree trunk trick, so no spamming Swarm of Flies from up there either. Gotta put on my big boy pants and just git gud enuff like with the final boss.
 
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Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
6/18
7RG4YbH.jpg

Build
Right Hand: Rivers of Blood +9
Left Hand: Blue-Gold Kite Shield +24 with Barricade Ash, Dragon Communion Seal +9
Armors: Silver Tear Helmet, Black Knife Armor, Briar Guantlets, Black Knife Greaves
Talismans: Radagon's Soreseal, Marika's Soreseal, Ritual Sword Talisman, Millicent's Prothesis
Items: 4 Crimson Flasks, 10 Cerulean Flasks
Physick: Hidden Cerulean & Bubble Tears
Incantations: Swarm of Flies, Dragon Ice, Flame Grant Me Strength
D-Pad Shortcuts: Physick, Tiche Summon, Boiled Crab, Rune Arc


I played this one probably even more than the final bosses, going all the way back to when I was still fighting Malekith. Probably also tried almost as many builds and strategies along the way, but this is the one that got the result. I had an unexpectedly close call earlier in the night, the only other time I got close in fact, when I was a frost proc away from victory, and I basically panic died when that didn't happen, I was just running away I guess hoping she'd basically present herself to me with the ideal opening (basically her flower bomb attack), rather than charging her and risk running right into her sword. My heart was pounding after that one! :ganishka: Anyway, that match, and the effectiveness of using Dragon Ice when she's doing the flower bloom routine, gave me the confidence I finally had the winning blueprint:

Enter the arena, consume a Boiled Crab, drink FP and Bubble Physick, summon Tiche, while FP is infinite cast Flame Grant Me Strength and then two Swarm of Flies, move in, ideally you do the Corpse Piler skill on her just as the Swarm of Flies makes her stutter, it's a guaranteed bleed proc and if Tiche is doing her thing Malenia should be at about half life already, then it's just matter of keeping consistent pressure and draining her HP as fast as possible, but without getting greedy because although she has low poise, and NO poise in her second phase, once she starts an attack animation it's only interruptible by a proc or poise break, so if you try purely spamming attacks she will inevitably kill you. Ideally, you want to keep the pressure up enough she can't regain her life off Tiche or by using wind dance, at least not too often. When it does inevitably come out, which it did in this fight, I switched to the +24 Blue Gold Kite Shield, cast Barricade, and move backwards to avoid as many hits as possible and watch the rest bounce harmlessly off my shield. Anyway, once you drain the first form the real test begins.

In her second phase, there really isn't an attack that won't instantly kill you if it connects unguarded (it's the same reason I only have four Crimson Flasks; if she's hitting you that often you'll be dead before you can use 'em all anyway). For that reason I went full offense with the talismans, ditched Swarm of Flies in this phase because she's too fast and aggressive for safe, effective casting, and kept the shield out full time except for one very important exception: casting Dragon Ice. This will be my main form of attack throughout this phase, and it's why I didn't cast it to start the first, because I want a guaranteed proc to start this phase after her initial flower bomb. That, combined with Tiche's Death Blade, will already have her halfway dead with any luck. When I'm not casting this, I am running away with my shield ready and hoping she's attacking Tiche (she is far more focused on you at any distance in this phase), specifically with more flower bombs so I can safely blast her with more ice breath. Like I said, I almost killed her by accident using this method, and this time I was ready. After a couple of close calls dodging her flying slash into lunging ground thrust and a dive bomb right in front of me, a few more ice blasts along the way had her down to 10% life. That's when I see Tiche hit her with another Blade of Death, sit back and watch from a safe distance as her life literally drains away: Demigod Felled.

Whew...
 
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