Episode 235

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Re:Episode 235?

Dark Wanderer said:
But are we 100% sure of that Ganishka is an apostle, through?
I believe so yes. He stated he is in a monologue of his two chapters back.

Anyway, the idea of Guts joining forces with Griffith, as somebody mentioned before, I believe is totally out of question, at least if Guts were to consciously make such a choice.
Now, Emperor Ganishka and Guts as an alliance is more possible but again a very lot far-fetched: Guts is heading for elf-helm and Ganishka will want to remain in occupation of Wyndam, if he wants to remain the Emperor (and it seems he does). And Griffith will be reattacking Ganishka any time soon , if his plan is to become king (and it seems it is). I don't see enough time for all these alliances to happen, if events run like they are suppossed to.
However Ganishka could escape away in the end. Furthemore as Tarpassa seem a bit important, it is worth speculating how the leadership of Kushans is gonna come to be. (remember that Tarpassa's story is a bit involved with this).
Hey, sorry for being a bit long- ;D
 
Re:Episode 235?

Dark Wanderer said:
Ganishka takes Caska as an "hostage" and gives Guts the following offer: Jouin with him as his army commander or something like that and defeat Grffith.

Ah... that was a good speculation, finally we can see guts back in the army days again :D
 

incognitoX

you fail me
Re:Episode 235?

Thanks for the info, Hague.

Although it was a little odd that Miura built up a massive battle to happen, it's still good to see Griffith. I'm a bit happy that the story will switch back to Guts, it'll be damn interesting to see how he's doing post battle with Grunbeld and how he's responding to the after effects of wearing the armor.
 
Re:Episode 235?

I bet when Miura switches back to Griffiths war with Ganishka itll be a big battle that'll take up a whole volume. With any luck we'll get to see Griffith transform :eek:. That would be sweet.
 

Dark Wanderer

I'm evil :p
Re:Episode 235?

xechnao said:
I believe so yes. He stated he is in a monologue of his two chapters back.
Well, maybe he is and maybe he is not. For example, remember that Locus called him an "underling", if I remember the translations correctly. Now, what could that mean? Well, a throught occured to me: What would happen to an apostle's demi-apostles if they somehow managed to survive their master/creator? What if Ganishka was a demi-apostle at some time whose master/creator was killed, and thus he became free to follow his own dream with the powers he already had and then began to search for the knowledge that could allow him to know the things that he does know... but of course, Locus words might jsut be seen as a way of taunting Ganishka. But there could also be other possibilites, like Ganishaka being some kind of Daka. He does look pretty much like them, and if the women he's sacrifing to get his Daka-army in the way Rakshas described are just pregnant in the "normal" way (=not impreginated by Ganishka), then Ganishka himself could have been created like that in a similar way before.

Anyway, the idea of Guts joining forces with Griffith, as somebody mentioned before, I believe is totally out of question, at least if Guts were to consciously make such a choice.
Now, Emperor Ganishka and Guts as an alliance is more possible but again a very lot far-fetched: Guts is heading for elf-helm and Ganishka will want to remain in occupation of Wyndam, if he wants to remain the Emperor (and it seems he does). And Griffith will be reattacking Ganishka any time soon, if his plan is to become king (and it seems it is). I don't see enough time for all these alliances to happen, if events run like they are suppossed to.
I wonder if Ganishka will really stay in Wyndam... Would there, strategicaly speaking, be anything for him to gain by staying in one place? I really don't see the point, especially not should his main force be with him in Wyndam. An army can't do much against an enemy by staying still in one place...

Hey, sorry for being a bit long- ;D
No worries :)

(By Smith) Ah... that was a good speculation, finally we can see guts back in the army days again :D
Heh, maybe. That's the only possibility for a Gatts/Ganishka alliance I can see anyway. With Gatts and the others, Ganishka would be able to fight effectively against Griffith's apostles anyway, since, as we have seen for ourselves, his other forces besides himself can't do much against them, not even his Dakas. But with Gatts and the rest of the gang in his armies, the apostles would begin to fall in countless numbers... But I myself think it's far more likely that we'll see a Gatts/Silat alliance rather than a Gatts/Ganishka one...

In any event I'll also be glad when the story'll switch over go Gatts again ;D
 
Re:Episode 235?

Dark Wanderer said:
That's the only possibility for a Guts/Ganishka alliance I can see anyway. With Guts and the others, Ganishka would be able to fight effectively against Griffith's apostles anyway, since, as we have seen for ourselves, his other forces besides himself can't do much against them, not even his Dakas. But with Guts and the rest of the gang in his armies, the apostles would begin to fall in countless numbers... But I myself think it's far more likely that we'll see a Guts/Silat alliance rather than a Guts/Ganishka one...


Indeed perhaps Guts and will form an alliance with Ganishka to fight Griffith (Silatt on the other hand might join Griffith)... Not a very likely possibility, yet holding Caska as an hostage might prove to be effective ;D


Or worst, Griffith take Caska away like he did to Charlotte, leaving Guts so piss off that he join with Ganiska to fight him (Well he will know Ganiska is evil, but without Caska around we all know that Guts is basically a bad guy)
 
Re:Episode 235?

Dark Wanderer said:
Well, maybe he is and maybe he is not. For example, remember that Locus called him an "underling", if I remember the translations correctly. Now, what could that mean? Well, a throught occured to me: What would happen to an apostle's demi-apostles if they somehow managed to survive their master/creator? What if Ganishka was a demi-apostle at some time whose master/creator was killed, and thus he became free to follow his own dream with the powers he already had and then began to search for the knowledge that could allow him to know the things that he does know... but of course, Locus words might jsut be seen as a way of taunting Ganishka. But there could also be other possibilites, like Ganishaka being some kind of Daka. He does look pretty much like them, and if the women he's sacrifing to get his Daka-army in the way Rakshas described are just pregnant in the "normal" way (=not impreginated by Ganishka), then Ganishka himself could have been created like that in a similar way before.
Are you serious?
Anyway, the "underling" was because according to Locus' reasoning he should serve under Griffith but Ganishka doesn't aknowledge this. Remeber that Locus thinks he is Griffith's Knight and this means that he reasons, speaks and acts by the code he is following.
Dark Wanderer said:
I wonder if Ganishka will really stay in Wyndam... Would there, strategicaly speaking, be anything for him to gain by staying in one place? I really don't see the point, especially not should his main force be with him in Wyndam. An army can't do much against an enemy by staying still in one place...
The whole conflict is for ruling the castle of Wyndam. Ganishka holds the castle now. He could also leave and this would not only mean a defeat, but totally losing the whole conflinct.
 

Dark Wanderer

I'm evil :p
Re:Episode 235?

Smith said:
Indeed perhaps Guts and will form an alliance with Ganishka to fight Griffith (Silatt on the other hand might join Griffith)... Not a very likely possibility, yet holding Caska as an hostage might prove to be effective ;D
Well, we'll see what happens, I suppose...

Or worst, Griffith take Caska away like he did to Charlotte, leaving Guts so piss off that he join with Ganiska to fight him (Well he will know Ganiska is evil, but without Caska around we all know that Guts is basically a bad guy)
Well, if Griffith took Caska away (althrough I can't really see any reason for why he would do that.. Maybe if an apostle captured Caska "by mistake" and something like that and then brought her to Griffith...). but I think it's pretty much true that IF Griffith took Caska away from him, by mistake or not, he'd probably care much less for who he had to team up with in order to get her back...

(By xechnao) Are you serious?
Well, why not? a lot of things are possible in the Berserk-world, and we don't know what happens to demi-apostles if their master dies anyway. And if you can create a Daka just like that as Rakshas described, then it sounds like pretty much anyone who captured one or more apostles could do the same, so why couldn't Ganishka be one himself, created by someone (possibly a mad/crazy magician who then taught Ganishka how to use magic, like it seems like he did)?

The whole conflict is for ruling the castle of Wyndam. Ganishka holds the castle now. He could also leave and this would not only mean a defeat, but totally losing the whole conflinct.
I see. So a siege might be to be expected the next time we see them? Hmm... Still, if they can't attack Griffith, but just put up a defense, then they're pretty much sitting ducks. Unless Ganishka intends to use hos arts before that...
 
Re:Episode 235?

Dark Wanderer said:
Well, why not? a lot of things are possible in the Berserk-world, and we don't know what happens to demi-apostles if their master dies anyway. And if you can create a Daka just like that as Rakshas described, then it sounds like pretty much anyone who captured one or more apostles could do the same, so why couldn't Ganishka be one himself, created by someone (possibly a mad/crazy magician who then taught Ganishka how to use magic, like it seems like he did)?
But I believe we know that Ganishka is an apostle.
Dark Wanderer said:
So a siege might be to be expected the next time we see them? Hmm... Still, if they can't attack Griffith, but just put up a defense, then they're pretty much sitting ducks. Unless Ganishka intends to use hos arts before that...
Wasn't for Ganishka the same now?
And lol, the castle is a fortification that aids your defense. What sitting duck you are talking about?
 

Dark Wanderer

I'm evil :p
Re:Episode 235?

xechnao said:
But I believe we know that Ganishka is an apostle.
Maybe he is, maybe not. Until we see an apostle-transformation (since the form of him that we see doesn't look like an apostle-form), I can't assume to 100% that he is an apostle.

Wasn't for Ganishka the same now?
And lol, the castle is a fortification that aids your defense. What sitting duck you are talking about?
He used his powers, yes, but remember that it's basically the Neo-hawks that is attacking him, not the opposite. so far he hasn't send any thunder-storm-clouds or anything like that directly at Griffiths army in an offensive purpose. Right now, his usage of his powers were more of a defensive one from my point of view. Besides, so far it's the Neo-hawks that has been attacking the Kushians in earlier encounters, not the other way around. a castle does give some advantages when it comes to defense, yes.. But does those defenses really matter to apostles? Remember that they cut through all defense-lines without too much trouble. And they can probably smash down whole walls, gates and so on or simply jump over them and it's hardly like spears or arrows will give the defenders any advantages. The only thing I can imagine working against apostles would be traps; pits filled with spears, big scytes swooping down on them, boulders falling down on them... Possibly cannons... and so on. But otherwise, normal defenses couldn't give much of an advantage against an apostle-army.
 
Re:Episode 235?

Dark Wanderer said:
He used his powers, yes, but remember that it's basically the Neo-hawks that is attacking him, not the opposite. so far he hasn't send any thunder-storm-clouds or anything like that directly at Griffiths army in an offensive purpose.
Wrong. He sent the Tarpassa but they failed.
Dark Wanderer said:
Right now, his usage of his powers were more of a defensive one from my point of view. Besides, so far it's the Neo-hawks that has been attacking the Kushians in earlier encounters, not the other way around. a castle does give some advantages when it comes to defense, yes.. But does those defenses really matter to apostles? Remember that they cut through all defense-lines without too much trouble. And they can probably smash down whole walls, gates and so on or simply jump over them and it's hardly like spears or arrows will give the defenders any advantages. The only thing I can imagine working against apostles would be traps; pits filled with spears, big scytes swooping down on them, boulders falling down on them... Possibly cannons... and so on. But otherwise, normal defenses couldn't give much of an advantage against an apostle-army.
He used the mist in the castle and he also used a big hall of the castle for creating the Daka and the other Elephant and Crocodile monsters, propablly. He also flanked the cavalry division, having them being attacked from all sides.
On the contrary, in the field battles Kushans didn't even manage to deploy a sinlge offensive against Griffith's army other than the arrows they fired against Griffith sometime but then it was his plan.
 

Dark Wanderer

I'm evil :p
Re:Episode 235?

xechnao said:
Wrong. He sent the Tarpassa but they failed.
Ah, that's indeed true. However, since the there hasn't been any attacks against Griffith, unless you count those assasins in the forest that Rakshas stopped.

He used the mist in the castle and he also used a big hall of the castle for creating the Daka and the other Elephant and Crocodile monsters, propablly. He also flanked the cavalry division, having them being attacked from all sides.
On the contrary, in the field battles Kushans didn't even manage to deploy a sinlge offensive against Griffith's army other than the arrows they fired against Griffith sometime but then it was his plan.
Well, creating the Daka was hardly an offensive movie in my opinion. As it was, he sued them more for defense in the curent battle instead of, for example, sending them directly agaisnt Griffith. But perhpas he only wanted to see how they'd fare against non-humans... But it's right that sio far, no offensive moves have been made agaisnt Griffith on the battlefield...

Oh, and by the way, in chapter 234... One of the apostles on the first page, isn't that the apostle who bit Gatt's arm when he struggled to reach Caska during the Eclipse?
 
Re:Episode 235?

Dark Wanderer said:
Ah, that's indeed true. However, since the there hasn't been any attacks against Griffith, unless you count those assasins in the forest that Rakshas stopped.
Ganishka doesn't wasnt to kill all apostles but just remain the Emperor which eventually means kill Griffith. It was Tarpassa's mission to find him and kill him.
Dark Wanderer said:
Well, creating the Daka was hardly an offensive movie in my opinion. As it was, he sued them more for defense in the curent battle instead of, for example, sending them directly agaisnt Griffith. But perhpas he only wanted to see how they'd fare against non-humans... But it's right that sio far, no offensive moves have been made agaisnt Griffith on the battlefield...
Anyway, Ganishka, for various VALID* reasons makes sense to have been in the castle. I believe he has only three choices for now:
1)to remain there to clash with Griffith's army
2)to surrender to him (propablly offering to Griffith his services)
3)to escape away
I believe we are gona see the first one and it's not that impossible that will conclude as number 2 above. Yes, maybe Ganishka gets killed or escapes away but I don't exclude the ipothesis that Griffith wins Ganishka's loyality. Then again I doupt because I don't see why, in this case, would Rakhashas uncover him to the Tarpassa.
Well, maybe causality wants him killed but maybe in the end he manages to escape away...anyway most propably he will be eliminated, I guess. But then the Tarpassa question remains about their status, the leadership of Kushan and what they are going to do.
Anyway... ???

Dark Wanderer said:
Oh, and by the way, in chapter 234... One of the apostles on the first page, isn't that the apostle who bit Gatt's arm when he struggled to reach Caska during the Eclipse?
I don't have the volume at hand. Could anyone who has confirm or not?



*PS: according to his character
 

Judo

Midlands finest
Re:Episode 235?

the picture of the first page of ch.234 doesn't show much and Daka are climbing on the apostle. From what you can see it really could be the same apostle but the apostle from vol.13 who bit Guts' arm doesn't look like a lancer.
 

Dark Wanderer

I'm evil :p
Re:Episode 235?

xechnao said:
Ganishka doesn't wasnt to kill all apostles but just remain the Emperor which eventually means kill Griffith. It was Tarpassa's mission to find him and kill him.
Well, it's indeed true that it may not be his desire to kill all apostles, just scare them enough to join him instead, but at least from my point of view he'll be having trouble if he doesn't start fightning the apostles for real soon. He can't be much of a king without an army, can he :rolleyes:

Anyway, Ganishka, for various VALID* reasons makes sense to have been in the castle. I believe he has only three choices for now:
1)to remain there to clash with Griffith's army
2)to surrender to him (propablly offering to Griffith his services)
3)to escape away
I believe we are gona see the first one and it's not that impossible that will conclude as number 2 above. Yes, maybe Ganishka gets killed or escapes away but I don't exclude the ipothesis that Griffith wins Ganishka's loyality. Then again I doupt because I don't see why, in this case, would Rakhashas uncover him to the Tarpassa.
Well, maybe causality wants him killed but maybe in the end he manages to escape away...anyway most propably he will be eliminated, I guess. But then the Tarpassa question remains about their status, the leadership of Kushan and what they are going to do.
Well, can't see why Ganishka would now join Griffith after opposing him like this. Besides, it will serve Griffith's purposes better if he defeats Ganishka the hard way, so to speak; makes him look even more like a saviour than ever before. As for the Tarpasa and Silat... Who knows? Rakshas looks like something of a neutral player. He helps Griffith, yes, but he isn't exactly serving him, and he may have his own reasons for telling Silat all these things. Futhermore, now Silat may know that, more or less, this battle is about evil fightning evil, and knowing what his emperor are like might now be what causes him to leave the emperor, which may in some way serve Rakshas purpose, whatever it might be (Remember that he DID say once that he's one day going to take Griffith's head. He might know that as things currently are, it would not be possible for him to do so, but if he helped manipulate events in a certain direction, it might be possible..).

Anyway... ???I don't have the volume at hand. Could anyone who has confirm or not?
Well, the apostle on that page, which were the one who "caught" Gatt's arm and held him like that while Femto raped caska, until he severed his own arm, looks very much like the one on Page 1 who enjoys some Daka-appetizers. As Judo said, that apostle might I Vol 13 not look like a lancer, but as far as I remember, we only saw the _front_ part of that apostle, not the lower back part, as we do with the one on page 1...
 
Re:Episode 235?

Dark Wanderer said:
Well, it's indeed true that it may not be his desire to kill all apostles, just scare them enough to join him instead, but at least from my point of view he'll be having trouble if he doesn't start fightning the apostles for real soon. He can't be much of a king without an army, can he :rolleyes:
Well, what Blakeman said before about simplicity it should really be applied here.
Which apostles, where, when, how is he gonna find them, etch? While he will be missing in the search of those apostles won't he leave the castle unguarded by himself?
Ganishka's power has a limit. He is not God afterall.
Dark Wanderer said:
Well, can't see why Ganishka would now join Griffith after opposing him like this.
Remember how Guts became Griffith's mercenary. Anyway this is far-fetched and I don't think things will end like that.
Dark Wanderer said:
Rakshas looks like something of a neutral player. He helps Griffith, yes, but he isn't exactly serving him, and he may have his own reasons for telling Silat all these things.
Why do you say he isn't exactly serving him?
Dark Wanderer said:
Remember that he DID say once that he's one day going to take Griffith's head. He might know that as things currently are, it would not be possible for him to do so, but if he helped manipulate events in a certain direction, it might be possible..).
I don't think Rakhashas fights for Griffith just for his fetish.
.
.
.
Anyway, the only thing that I believe there is about Rakhashas is that he is a Tarpassa. Shilat, their leader has chosen to serve the Emperor for Tarpassas' reason. Rakhashas seems to be having a different opinion...
 

Lliugusamui

around the corner
Re:Episode 235?

xech, you seem to make a mistake concerning the tapasa and the bakiraka... so rakshas may be a former bakiraka but certainly not a tapasa.

guil
 
Re:Episode 235?

Guil you are right I confuse the Tarpassa and Barkilaka names but anyway that doesn't change my point. When Shilat was referring to Rakhashas he said he was one of their race*(name is Barkilaka, I confused with Tarpassa) and this is what I was talking about.
So whenever I was saying Tarpassa I intended to say Barkilaka (as Barkilaka is the generic family). Sorry for this and thanks for correcting.

By the way why do you say Rakhashas is an ex?
I wouldn't hurry to this too much: what matters to them(Barkilaka 8)) is replace their status and maybe Rakhashas was right not to help the Emperor, concerning always the interest of the Barkilaka that is.
If the Barkilaka had shot Griffith are you sure they would have killed him?
I know it is far-fetched but I can't find another reasonable answer why should Rakhashas tour Shilat around.
Yes, their loyality and leadership to Ganishka is now in question, but was Rakkhashas bothering just to shake them?
Maybe he thinks Griffith is going to win anyway and tries to get less involed the Barkilaka against him. Maybe he thinks that the Emperor should have fallen for the good of the Barkilaka.
But then again he might just be an ex and just wanted to shake Shilat's faith and serving for the Emperor.
I dunno.


PS*: I believe he was rather referring to their clan, rather than the whole Kushan race.

PS2: Any clue about the oracle they are talking about? Would that be something that corrisponds to the holy office behind Farness' holy order?
 

Dark Wanderer

I'm evil :p
Re:Episode 235?

xechnao said:
Well, what Blakeman said before about simplicity it should really be applied here.
Which apostles, where, when, how is he gonna find them, etch? While he will be missing in the search of those apostles won't he leave the castle unguarded by himself?
Ganishka's power has a limit. He is not God afterall.
No, but I' believe that there should be soemthing he could do against apostles even from a great distance. And as for how he'd find them - easy, if he is indeed a magican, then he coud find them by borrowing a bird's body (or some other animal) the same way Shiruke did. But Ganishka may also have othe rmeans of finding out those kinds of stuff.. He DID know where to send the Bakiraka to find Griffith after all...

Remember how Guts became Griffith's mercenary. Anyway this is far-fetched and I don't think things will end like that.
Well, that does sound a little far-fetched, but indeed, who knows?

Why do you say he isn't exactly serving him?
Well, to me it looks like he's in it all more for the fun of it. And he does posses some knowledge not available to everyone.

I don't think Rakhashas fights for Griffith just for his fetish. Anyway, the only thing that I believe there is about Rakhashas is that he is a Tarpassa. Shilat, their leader has chosen to serve the Emperor for Tarpassas' reason. Rakhashas seems to be having a different opinion...
Maybe he doesn't but it's to me a little cloudy right now. for as I said, it looks to me like he became a aprt of Griffith's army jsut for the fun of it and to me it looks liek he's serving both his own purposes and Griffiths... Rakshas could indeed have been one of the Bakiraka or the Tapasa. That might in some way explain why he hasn't killed Silat or the Tapasas accompanying him, but rather been playing with them.
 
Re:Episode 235?

Dark Wanderer said:
He DID know where to send the Bakiraka to find Griffith after all...
You don't know that.
The oracle is the one who knows about Griffith. As far as Albion a thousand people were driven there by the dream. As far as their next encounter Shilat was surprised to see Griffith there. Then most reasonably he tracked him to send the Barkilaka to poison him. Note that the first time he lost him(after Albion) because Griffith flew away on Zoddback ;D
 

SaiyajinNoOuji

I'm still better than you
Re:Episode 235?

Jesus fuck Xechnao and Dark Wanderer You guys talk to much! ;D But since I have the day off today, expect the YA a lot sooner, going to go look for it right now, check out the first post in an hour or 2! Peace out. :-*

EDIT: I just got and scanning is in progress
 
Re:Episode 235?

I suddenly have this weird idea... would Rakasha one day guide Guts band like he did to Silatt and Tapasa? Like Darkwanderer said he may actually just serve Griffith for the sake of fun and intend to get his head through Guts?



Not likely but i cant say it cant happen :-\
 
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