Episode 242

Ghost said:
Returning to the lost limb discussion, I think its kind of unrealistic how Gatts uses his mechanical arm. He uses it like it is his real hand! he can grab things with it!!! (eventhough its just piece of metal) and the magnet explanation just doesnt make much sense: how can the magnet resist the tremendous torque needed to swing the sword? and how does Gatts remove his left hand from the sword? is it an intelligent magnet?

IMO Godo should have just said it was a magic mech arm and be done with it. Something like "Gatts, that mech arm is just a piece of metal I found, but legends say that the more it is used the more it begins to react to its user's will".
Maybe later you can complain about how unrealistic it is with Guts having one eye and yet being able to do so much damage without stereo vision, I mean fuck he has to use a sword all the time and well, its amazing he can do it when he lacks such a perception.
Better yet why not argue about how he can wield the sword so fast and easily when it is clearly so fucking heavy.

It's a manga, all we can say about the magnet is that it keeps his hand stable when the fake hand is clenched the magnet can support it. If he opens it up, he can take it from the sword easier.

As for him grabbing things with it, I don't recall him grabbing anything but metal stuff, as support for the other hand primarily holding whatever or punching people in the mouth when it is clenched.

Also, it would be cool if Gatts got back his missing eye
Sounds a bit dodge to me

and maybe integrate his mech arm better through Hanafubuku's magic.
Him being able to control and manipulate its movements from within the Berserker armor is satisfactory enough.
 
G

Ghost

Guest
Well perhaps I should have said that it is unconvincing rather than unrealistic. For example, check how fast Gatts can swing his sword when he fights against Zondark. Gatts would need his 2 hands to be able to do that, the magnet wouldnt hold. And if it did, that would mean Gatts has to make a tremendous effort to remove the magnet from the sword, since he only can use his right hand.
 
Unconvincing and unrealistic aren't very different words.

In the fights with Zondark I don't recall him once only using his left hand without the right to fight him or anyone else. In fact even when his hand his really damaged (which soon happens when he fights the Count) he doesnt just use the fake arm.

I don't know where this is coming from, how about you give me a page number to go by so I can see when he uses only the fake arm with a great deal of force behind it... not that I would overly care if he did but now i'm curious.
 

burnout39

HA! I can see you!..What...you can see me? AHH!
I would like to see the berserker try to kill the spirit...like a long fight...with a hilarious outcome.

I think, the next chapter will be Gutts trying over and over to cleave the spirit, until he falls from exaustion (o.0)

*swing*
miss
*swing*
miss
*swing*
miss

lol...that would be great....
 
Questioning Guts' abilities and his prosthetic arm is just pointless. If you've read the whole manga, seen all that Guts has been through and his training, and understand the concept of the low-magic world that the story is set in, and the concept of the positive side effects of the brand, the suspension of disbelief should be pretty low for all of Guts' abilities since it's all been pretty well developed/explained already.

I mean, if you think normal Guts is bad, then what about when the berserk armor takes over? I mean, wow, he flips all over the place in full plate armor and can use his metal forearm as though it was a natural part of his body! He even used the cannon arm without any string, the wrist just flipped back on its own! And he can have his body broken and the armor puts his bones back in place! Wow what a bunch of crap!

Oh wait, it was all explained, just like everything else. If you really want though, I'll spell it all out for you, or someone else will -_-
 

rubbereruben

I´m rubber, you´re glue.
Aazealh said:
Well, you're wrong.
I don´t think you really understood what I meant. I wasn´t saying that Griffith and Femto are different people, they are different persona. If you know what I mean. Their goals are differents. As where Femto is more of a devil. Griffith is more of an embodyment of a deity. The big difference is that there are people that believe in Griffith and that support his ideas. Not just because they are apostles, but also normal people.

You guys remember when Griffith was on the top of that hill and he showed the spirits of the deceased soldiers to the women and children? That shows that he could care about his people.

It was the same with Griffit and the band of the hawk, when he was washing himself in the river after being used by that general for a warchest. He did care about his subordinates.

That´s why I think Ganishka is evil and Griffith is not. Ganishka has no compassion for either his subordinates or his enemies. Whereas Griffith does have compassion for his followers.

I think that that is the difference between the both of them, and that is why I don´t think Griffith is only evil and Ganishka is.

I hope that clears things up.
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
rubbereruben said:
I wasn´t saying that Griffith and Femto are different people, they are different persona. If you know what I mean. Their goals are differents. As where Femto is more of a devil. Griffith is more of an embodyment of a deity.
I'd say Griffith is more like the embodyment of Femto, and I'm curious to know where you saw that Femto had a different goal than Griffith.

rubbereruben said:
The big difference is that there are people that believe in Griffith and that support his ideas. Not just because they are apostles, but also normal people.
Considering Femto wasn't present in the physical realm where normal people live, and didn't interact with them, I don't think that argument is really valid.

And what are exactly supposed to be Griffith's ideas ?
 

rubbereruben

I´m rubber, you´re glue.
To have his own country of course. And yes, Femto might not have lived in the physical realm, it would still be highly doubtful that any normal person would follow Femto.

If Griffith would be the embodyment of Femto he would probably try to destroy Gatts and Caska immediately, but when that opportunity was given to him (like when Griffith visited Gatts on the hill with all the swords that Rickert made) he didn´t try to kill him or try to hurt Caska. That does show that Griffith and Femto do have different priorities and goals.
 
Femto said to Guts when they first met each other after the Eclipse that he doesn't care if he's dead or not, that he's just a worm or something the like. He had the opportunity to kill him back then, but he didn't.
I doubt that their goals changed, although Femto now looks like Griffith, on the inside he's still Femto. Cold blooded and such, he said it himself. Becoming a God Hand nd reigning hell was one thing, but not his dream, that's also why he was "reborn" in the normal world, to fullfill his former goal, which never changed. He won't betray his dream, remember?
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
rubbereruben said:
If Griffith would be the embodyment of Femto he would probably try to destroy Gatts and Caska immediately, but when that opportunity was given to him (like when Griffith visited Gatts on the hill with all the swords that Rickert made) he didn´t try to kill him or try to hurt Caska. That does show that Griffith and Femto do have different priorities and goals.
That shows nothing at all except maybe that you should read your manga again, take a look at akikaze's post for details.
 

rubbereruben

I´m rubber, you´re glue.
akikaze said:
Becoming a God Hand nd reigning hell was one thing, but not his dream, that's also why he was "reborn" in the normal world, to fullfill his former goal, which never changed. He won't betray his dream, remember?
Well actually you just proved my hypothesis right. He couldn´t fulfill his actual goal by being Femto, instead of ruling hell and earth (limited though) he wanted to rule the earth. That´s why he became Griffith. Their ultimate goals are different and their persona too, because Femto couldn´t rule the earth but Griffith can.

And Aazealh, please don´t repeat other members or give me any smart ass comments like that. Give some good arguments instead of referring to other posts. It´s not me versus you. I don´t have to be right perse. I´m just sharing my opinion with the rest of the members.
 
rubbereruben said:
Well actually you just proved my hypothesis right.
Let's have a look...
rubbereruben said:
He couldn´t fulfill his actual goal by being Femto, instead of ruling hell and earth (limited though) he wanted to rule the earth.
I agree on that.
rubbereruben said:
That´s why he became Griffith.
Yes...
rubbereruben said:
Their ultimate goals are different and their persona too, because Femto couldn´t rule the earth but Griffith can.
Theres the mistake. Femto couldn't reign everywhere, but he wanted, reborn as Griffith, he can. So they do have the same Goals, but in one form they are unachieveable in the other one not.
As for their persona, yes they are different, as Femto he cared a shit about everything he had no feelings. As Griffith he seems to have some slight feelings. When he saw Guts fighting with Zodd, his Heart was beating a little bit faster, which might be because of the Babies body, he was reborn into. It made him more human again. Presuming that the baby was not completely demonic, which most likely is right because it is or was Cascas and Guts child.
 

Griffith

My posts are better.
Are you guys still talking about this in painful detail? I thought it was pretty clear at this point:

Femto is to Griffith as The Beast is to Guts.

Tada!

-Griffith
 

burnout39

HA! I can see you!..What...you can see me? AHH!
TYes....as Femto gets more human, Gutts gets more demonic, to take him down...
(o.0)









(Its a conspiracy!)
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
rubbereruben said:
And Aazealh, please don´t repeat other members or give me any smart ass comments like that. Give some good arguments instead of referring to other posts.
The fact is you don't have any real argument to begin with, so I'm not gonna involve myself in a 5 pages discussion to explain you something like that...

The only real differences between Femto and his incarnation as Griffith would be the physical appearance and the interference of the Demon Child's feelings in his actions, but that's it.

That whole thing of "Griffith and Femto are two different characters, it's hard to put them in the same light" seems to me just like an excuse you're making to yourself to consider the post-incarnation Griffith the same as the old, pre-occultation Griffith.

Any kind of goodness Griffith is showing nowadays is pretty much part of his plan, following the collective "Hawk-savior-dream" and eventually leading to his ascension as the king.

Their ultimate goal is the one thing that never changed, from the former Griffith to Femto to the new Griffith, and it's actually what motivated these changes.

Griffith became Femto, and Femto was incarnated into a new Griffith, there's no "Femto the bad guy that raped Casca :'( disappeared while the good Griffith came back from nowhere with incredible powers".

But then again, you could get that just by looking at previous posts.
 
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