Episode 279

Guts2

There's no FATE - Just the power of WILL
I guess that Young Animal would inform of the release date as soon as Miura announces it to their board....
*sigh*... I just hope we will know the date soon at least.... just to be on the safe side.....
 
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cajunman380

Guest
But can Griffith defeat the Kushan forces with his troops alone (or is he willing to do it)? Have you seen how numerous they are? They're apparently more than the Holy See alliance's, and these already combine the armies of several countries. His apostles would be at work for hours to kill that many people. And I don't see why you think he would do that to sway Vandimion to his side. He's just an influential noble with a strong financial power, it's not like Griffith needs his support desperately (and Vandimion might not be reticent to help him anyway). He's already got the Pontiff, and you'd think the leaders of other countries like Tudor would be more important to him... Besides Vandimion was at the ball, the only reason he's still alive is because Guts (and Farnese) saved him.

Sorry Aaz I must challenge this point. It was stated at the ball that many countries would not even be able to go to war were it not for the support of Vandimion. Miura has made a point on several occasion to note that Farneses family is not just a bunch of nobles. They are the nobels. In the aristocratic world money and insight mean a lot. Its true that Griffith has the Popes support but the guy is at his deathbed. All I'm saying is that the Vandmion family shouldn't be underestimated at this point. Financial power can prove handy at some point in the future and Griffith would be very foolish to ignore them.

As for the size of the Kushan troops. Well Miura has also made a point in his story that, against apostles numbers don't really mean much. I mean unless Ganishka has an army of magic users Griffith wouldn't have much to worry about. (heck as the skullknight commented. if Griffith thinks 1 magic user is more dangerous than an army of 10000) then Griffith must be like. What thats all you got? I'm gonna guess the real battle depends on what magic tricks Ganishkas got. As for whether he can, well i don't doubt it. He is a God hand incarnate and he has causality on his side. Plus he was willing to sacrifice his friends for power and he apparently has no problem sending an army of apostles to a which hunting mission in which practically all of them get annihilated. I would guess that everyone is expendable to Griffith if it means getting a step closer to his dream.


Sorry feeling fatigue, i welcome any counterpoints.
 

Aazealh

そうはいかぬ
Staff member
cajunman380 said:
It was stated at the ball that many countries would not even be able to go to war were it not for the support of Vandimion.
To be precise, it was stated by Magnifico, member of the Vandimion family, that several countries were relying on the Vandimion's support. And it's kind of a general statement, not exclusive to the war. It's a bit like how the templars lent money to kingdoms in our world.

cajunman380 said:
Miura has made a point on several occasion to note that Farneses family is just a bunch of nobles. They are the nobels. In the aristocratic world money and insight mean a lot.
Yeah, right. You're not saying much here buddy (even taking missing words into account).

cajunman380 said:
Its true that Griffith has the Popes support but the guy is at his deathbed. All I'm saying is that the Vandmion family shouldn't be underestimated at this point. Financial power can prove handy at some point in the future and Griffith would be very foolish to ignore them.
Who's underestimating the Vandimion family? Certainly not me, and I think if you've read this board you'll have noticed that I've been regularly stressing out their importance over the past 2 years. However, as you said yourself, Griffith is a member of the God Hand. Right now he can afford to underestimate whoever he wants, with maybe the exception of Ganishka. He didn't care about the Vandimion family when they were attacked at the ball, nor did he about the other people massed there. They're only alive because of Guts' intervention. Griffith doesn't seem to be in need of money, and if he was he could take it by force (or better yet, various people would offer it to him spontaneously). He's not dependant on anybody. I don't think you're really addressing what I said here... Keep in mind the post I was replying to. All my post said was that I don't think Griffith's strategy for dealing against the Kushans in this battle will be defined by the desire to impress Federico de Vandimion. The Vandimion are powerful, but it's as useless to overestimate them than to underestimate them. Griffith has got the support of the Holy See now, and whether their leader is dying or not doesn't matter much as long as he can do what he wants him to before he passes away. The Vandimion family is powerful, but they're not military leaders. From Griffith's point of view, their immediate interest (in the battle) is inexistant, and hypothetic at best in the future if he engages in political games. I find it a bit presumptuous to say that he would be foolish not to excessively care about them. Especially if you're saying in the next paragraph that he's got Causality on his side and should just laugh in the face of the biggest army we've seen in the story so far, led by a powerful magic user that's aware of Griffith's (and his apostles') true nature.

If the Holy See alliance was completely annihilated by the Kushans, what value would the Vandimion's influence retain? Not much. The Hawks are the only ones that can stand against Ganishka, not to mention defeat his armies. There's no need for Griffith to make efforts to sway anyone. If we start to be picky, who's to say Federico de Vandimion will oppose Griffith? He has no reason to, right now (might and probably will change later on though). Why would there be a need to convince him of joining a cause that's in his best interest? And who's to say he'll have the choice or will be able to do anything about it? Rather, other countries that were rejoicing at the idea of dividing Midland between themselves will probably not be too happy if Griffith swoops down to take it away from them. Destroying them or gaining their leadership should be a priority for him, and the Pontiff could be useful in that regard. And again, because we see the Vandimion as important doesn't mean Griffith does or will. I could very well see him do the "mistake" of underestimating them, and that possibly being a problem for him as some point in time (vague speculation here). Let's also not forget that he's supposed to bring darkness to the world and all that, so at some point he's probably going to stop playing nice and start revealing his true nature. And when he does, money won't be very helpful. He's not Griffith from volume 5 that needed some noble's backup to fund his band of mercenary anymore.

If anything, I personally see the Vandimion reluctant to follow Griffith in the future, not inclined to serve his cause. I think that'd be interesting, the intrigue aspect and all. But right now in the story, there's nothing much they can do (whether it's for or against Griffith).

cajunman380 said:
As for the size of the Kushan troops. Well Miura has also made a point in his story that, against apostles numbers don't really mean much.
Keep the context of the event in mind. We've never seen a battle of such amplitude in the manga so far; it's not just ten guys fighting Zodd here. And the Demon Soldiers aren't all like Zodd or Grunberd either, they'll die if enough people gang up on them. Besides Griffith's army isn't only made of apostles. Nor will he reign on a country made of apostles. I don't see him relying solely on them. I believe the strategies and powers used will play a big role in determining the winner. If Griffith uses his powers to kill Ganishka off at the beginning and destabilize the Kushans, then unleashes his apostles on them in combination with the troops of Holy See alliance regaining composure, it could be a striking victory. If Ganishka uses magic to support his troops and the Hawks just rush in for a frontal shock, it's going to be much more messy. This battle doesn't follow a clean-cut scenario with a predictable ending, I wouldn't be too sure of what's going to happen if I were you.

Ultimately, I'm not saying Ganishka's right about numbers being the most important thing in a battle, or that he's going to win the war. But since you're talking about how we shouldn't underestimate the Vandimion family, I'd like to remind you not to underestimate the Kushans either. We all know they'll lose in the end, but that doesn't mean they aren't to be taken seriously. They're a serious threat.

cajunman380 said:
(heck as the skullknight commented. if Griffith thinks 1 magic user is more dangerous than an army of 10000)
More dangerous for himself. Don't put that sentence out of its context, too many people do. Griffith can't be harmed by normal means, but that doesn't mean his army can't be damaged that way. I don't think you're making much of a point by quoting this line here.
 

Herald of Yama

"It is pure Potential"
Although I don't agree with all of cajunman's post, one bit did stand out: The Pontiff being on his deathbed. To this end, Griffith is not likely to alienate/destroy the Vandimion, since one of Federico's sons is next in line for the position. The ruling of one dead Pontiff, who was never known for doing anything extraordinary until his end, could be undone by a Pontiff who feels his family has been betrayed. Griffith isn't likely to piss them off. Then again, I suppose he doesn't have to go out of his way to win their favor, either.
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Trashcan said:
Griffith isn't likely to piss them off. Then again, I suppose he doesn't have to go out of his way to win their favor, either.
Considering he may ultimately be viewed as the Jesus/Muhammed figure in the Holy See's religion, I'd say he won't have to do much at all...
 

Griffith

My posts are better.
OMG, Griff better kiss the Vandimions' ass or they'll send him to THE NEXT DIMENSION with their awesome POWER LEVEL!!! :isidro:

Or he could just kill them, for all it really matters. :schierke:


Did I miss somerthing? it's like the last 22 volumes never happened and Griffith is still a commoner politicking around, trying to become King by his cunning. The only "nobility" Griff really has to worry about is Ganishka, the rest are all pawns he can play as he likes (and he likes to play the hero).
 

Griffith

My posts are better.
CnC said:
don't care how many times I see that pic, griff.  Its always funny
Good, I was at a crossroads with this image where either I stop using it or I just use it shamelessly all the time, even after I'M sick of it. You can all see which path I chose.
 
C

cajunman380

Guest
Okay, how many of you think that this may be Ganishka's final resting place? Personally I dont want this to be the final battle he's in, I mean the encounter with Guts opened up a lot of interesting possibilities.

As for Griffith. I just have to wonder if his role here is more than merely stopping Ganishka. I mean he technically has everything he needs right now in order to be the king of Midland (or be king of a country). He has:

Princess Charlotte the royal heir to the throne of Midland (technically she's the queen)
The backing of the pope.
An army of powerful apostles.
An already established reputation throughout the land of Midland. I mean I feel that his role here isn't really a necessity (unless he somewhat cares for the nobles of Midland). unless of course he may plan to be the king of the entire Holy See empire. Any thoughts to this?
 

Funkmasta Zeph

Finely made wine since 1840
Okay, how many of you think that this may be Ganishka's final resting place? Personally I dont want this to be the final battle he's in, I mean the encounter with Guts opened up a lot of interesting possibilities.
Like what exactly?... Theres not much more for him to do aside from be defeated.

Princess Charlotte the royal heir to the throne of Midland (technically she's the queen)
The backing of the pope.
An army of powerful apostles.
An already established reputation throughout the land of Midland. I mean I feel that his role here isn't really a necessity (unless he somewhat cares for the nobles of Midland). unless of course he may plan to be the king of the entire Holy See empire. Any thoughts to this?
Well....clearly he needs to defeat the Kushans before doing anything with a kingdom. Namely Charlottes kingdom which is still in thier grasp. And his reputation is still just along the lines of a more....Batman like thing. An army that comes out of the blue to save defenseless victims. To be the antichrist figure hes gearing up to be he needs to be a huge blatant unifying war hero. Defeating an army this big in such a descisive battle is very central to the pursuit of that title.
 

Forest Wraith

Evil is born when we lose power over ourselves.
Taking everyones recent discussion into account I have an interesting speculation about the Vandimions; Lets assume That while Guts and company are at Sea, Griffith assumes power and kills off the Vandimion family as Griffith No More pointed out. It would be easy for him to make it look like a Kushan assassination, assuming that Ganishka doesn't actually do it first.

However, there would be still be two surviving Vandimion's, hypothetically out of harms way on a voyage to Elfhelm. One of whom we are underestimating in my opinion, because we have yet to see him develop: Magnifico Vandimion . . . Okay, I know that might seem ridiculous but the more I think about it, the more I like the idea. He is a coward now but consider how much being exposed to Guts subtle but potent influence has changed Farnese? If Miura keeps him around I can see him developing into a fully-fledged and dynamic character, with a spine and some possible leadership qualities: Upon the groups return to Midland, assuming that at least all of the men of the Vandimion family are dead (I prefer that alternative because I would hate for Lady Vandinion to die); his resolve would then be further strengthened: Seeing this as his last chance to prove himself to his Father, he rises to power amongst a faction of nobles who revere him as the Vandimion's last Male heir and returning prodigal son. I don't mean to negate Farnese's role in this little scenario, as I am sure that it will be just as significant; if possibly a little more behind the scenes (I haven't touched on Roderick either): Due simply to the fact that whatever possible faction they recruit would most likely not be as inclined to follow a woman.
Of course, it would also be downright assinine of me not to note that Magnifico would also have the collective wisdom of Guts' Band backing him. That idea is easily impressive enough to make it well worth considering that the group may merely use him as a figurehead: In the event that he never matures to the degree necessary to be considered a favorable alternative to those in power who might be suspicious of Griffith. Foss being the most likely canidate known to us at this point in the story.

So, just to sum things up: Uhh . . . Well, we really shouldn't . . . uh . . . underestimate the Vandimion's. . . .

Although there is the whole Wild-card in the form of a Beherit that Guts is toting around with him . . . But that's a whole other line of speculation . . .
 

Aazealh

そうはいかぬ
Staff member
For those that want them, the posters of volume 31: 01 | 02

There's also the cover which I updated on the encyclopedia a week ago or so: Cover. Of course, I'm counting on you guys to actually buy this volume if you haven't already.
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Hahahaha that Daiba one is gold. Not exactly how I pictured him in my mind though... :daiba:

Maybe all that lightning did some damage to him, afterall?
 
Aazealh said:
For those that want them, the posters of volume 31
Nice, thanks Aaz! :serpico:

Aazealh said:
Of course, I'm counting on you guys to actually buy this volume if you haven't already.
Sadly it'll be another week or so before the Japanese book store by my work gets the volume in... :judo: However, I'm checking daily, so it'll be in my grubby paws soon enough. :zodd:
 

handsome rakshas

Thanks Grail!
Aazealh said:
For those that want them, the posters of volume 31: 01 | 02

There's also the cover which I updated on the encyclopedia a week ago or so: Cover. Of course, I'm counting on you guys to actually buy this volume if you haven't already.
Hey, thanks for these! I think that the Daiba poster is kind of cute, I shall purchase volume 31 right away.
 

Griffith

My posts are better.
Let's revive some serious Berserk discussion...

Was there enough discussion of Ganishka being dressed up in an Idea costume for Halloween?



He's even sort of shaped the same there. =)​

Anyway, I thought it was interesting, we've all seen the eye sigil before for the Kushans, but never to the degree or design on Ganishka's tank, elephants and especially his armor.
 

Aazealh

そうはいかぬ
Staff member
"Griffith No More!" said:
Was there enough discussion of Ganishka being dressed up in an Idea costume for Halloween?
Very interesting parallel. Even if it's just esthetic and superficial, it's a pretty cool observation.
 
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