Episode 345

Oburi

All praise Grail
Aazealh said:
The gurus go on: "Now almost all forests of spiritual trees around the world have been burned to ashes. Because of that, the world tree got more power. So the ancient chaos when the real world and the astral world are mixed together is going to come back." Ged says that now, he wants to ask a question to the man in black, who has a deep relation to him: "Who the hell is the Falcon of Light? Can you tell me what he wants to do by twisting the world like that? What desire led him to be reborn as a Guardian Angel of Desire?"

So this confirms that the burning down of Flora's tree wasn't an isolated incident. Griffith probably sent out many groups of Apostles to many locations around the world to burn down spiritual trees. I guess Flora was singled out in particular (possibly because of the armor or the connection to Skullknight) because both Zodd and Grunbeld showed up.

I love the Guardian Angel of Desire line. Brings me back to the early episodes.

Of course, thanks to Aaz and Puella!
 
I love this episode, it brings so much to the table that we either weren't aware of or cemented facts about how we view the history and world of Berserk. Thank you Aazealh and Puella for the summary and translation, as well as Walter and Griffith for more insight on what's revealed.

Thinking back to when I've read the sections with Flora over the course of my re-reads, I never gave much thought to the tree itself. the nature oriented themes were well done and I always thought it was a fun design, but hearing this news I am surprised and glad that it's served a higher purpose. I feel that when we have the full scope of things further in the story, we will look back on other pieces of previous volumes with a different eye and context. I'd be curious to know how many other spiritual trees there were and who protected them, if we get any further back story on that.

The features and designs for some of the new characters like the older sages are so whimsical and appealing. Even though we have been introduced to a number of witches now, all of them have very distinct looks and style, and that's something I admire about Miura and his drawings. Danan is especially cute with her wardrobe and hat accessory.

Guts' description of Griffith's ambition was perfect, a powerful scene and it will be interesting to hear what else he has to say. I am hoping that Guts will elaborate more to his friends about his past, although maybe it will still happen off screen. Another thing I've been thinking about is if we will see the return of Skull Knight before or after the process of curing Casca has occurred, I feel like he will show himself eventually on the island at some point, but maybe it's far off.
 

Aazealh

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DragoonBG said:
I'd love to read it if you have a direction link :), thanks. Also have to say you are probably single handedly the most informative and interesting person I've ever red commenting and talking about Berserk. Just to throw (some praise :p) it out there, I'm sure you hear that often, but I'm new here and I think it's ok to say it (I've been reading the forum for a quite some time and appreciate all the people's thoughts and views).

There's not much to see, but here is a link to one occurrence where I talked about it. And thank you for the praise, I appreciate it. :SK:

Tripas said:
Regarding the "roads" and the World Tree, it's interesting to note that not all the forests have been destroyed. Maybe when that happens the "chaos" Ged talks about is the aforementioned Age of Darkness (if we don't consider that the world in its current state is actually that). And maybe and only maybe, the remaining seals are the final key for the complete release of the God Hand upon the world, if they don't walk the earth yet. Thinking of it, our missing and beloved immortal could be doing a little job :zodd:

Indeed, the question we should ask ourselves is whether they all need to be destroyed or not. Does it matter anymore? I'm not sure. And are the rest of the God Hand still unable to move freely, or have we just not seen them yet? Episode 306 seemed to imply they had been brought into the world.

Tripas said:
In retrospect I wonder what role had Skull Knight in all of this. Can we assume he was trying to protect the seals? Why did he hide Femto's intentions from Guts and Schierke?

Oh I think the Skull Knight's been straightforward on that count: he wants to destroy the God Hand. When he was at Flora's place, he wanted to avoid her the indignity of being butchered by an apostle. On top of Ganishka, he was trying to kill Femto.

Walter said:
Most of us have known that Griffith's ambitions were always larger, and that the pursuit of his kingdom was the tallest order he could dream of as a man. [...] This scene also sets up Guts' value to the Gurus, and really to all the inhabitants of the island: His special connection with Griffith, who has become the de facto leader of the evil order that's literally tearing the world apart.

Yes, one of the things I really liked about this episode is how despite the invaluable experience and incommensurable knowledge of the gurus compared to a guy like Guts, he is still relevant because he was at the heart of it all. He was in the trenches and witnessed the events first hand. He personally knew the mysterious big bad guy before he was what he is. Just like Rickert's past with Griffith is what allowed him to see through the bullshit and slap him in the face, Guts' past and experience makes him a man who counts, even when faced with people who should dwarf him in that regard. I really, greatly appreciate that. I think Miura's a genius to have constructed the scene and the discussion that way.

Walter said:
Will this discussion spill over into 346, where Guts expounds a bit more to his companions about the state of Casca, Griffith, himself, and his journey? Here's hoping. The timing makes sense now more than it ever has.

What's sure is it's coming, and if it's not in 346 it'll be soon enough afterwards. Although, at the risk of upsetting those to whom this is apparently what mattered most in this episode, I don't think Guts being the hundred man slayer will in itself be that big of a deal, other than to Isidro of course. Rather, who Casca was will surely be a shock to the group (especially Farnese), given her present condition (and I think it would make sense for them to know before they take her to be cured).

I'm also not sure Guts will go into detail about the sacrifice and the Eclipse (the gurus appear to know about that already), which is what would likely prove to be the most horrifying (and revealing) moment to his companions. However mentioning it at this point (in any capacity) would have the advantage of Farnese, Serpico and Azan being able to tie it to the "red lake" and the Holy See's prophecy, which could then prompt the gurus (or even Schierke) to expound upon it, maybe even revealing where that prophecy came from.

Oburi said:
I guess Flora was singled out in particular (possibly because of the armor or the connection to Skullknight) because both Zodd and Grunbeld showed up.

In those episodes, Grunbeld explains that he requested to be part of the mission to prove his loyalty to the Falcon. But yeah, they clearly considered her a threat (and I don't think it was because of the armor).

Oburi said:
I love the Guardian Angel of Desire line. Brings me back to the early episodes.

Yeah I also really liked that. Between that kind of namedropping and the fact Gedflynn just casually told Guts about the beherit in his pouch and then asked him directly about his personal experience with Griffith, you can tell these Great Gurus aren't fucking around.
 

Aazealh

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Miura's comment for this episode:

Miura said:
The third episode of the animation was an original scenario created for the TV series, so the dog apostle, a very minor character, got a big breakthrough.

Thanks should go to IncantatioN for snapping a picture of his Young Animal, and to puella for the translation.
 

Walter

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:ganishka: Ohh so it was a dog apostle all along — after all these years! Thanks IncantatioN and Puella!
 

Aazealh

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Walter said:
:ganishka: Ohh so it was a dog apostle all along — after all these years! Thanks IncantatioN and Puella!

Yep! I guess in retrospect his snout is indeed more dog-like. Though to be honest he's kind of a mess. :void:
 
Aazealh said:


I agree, this was one of the coolest and most unexpected things. And it just fits so naturally. It's easy to think that Guts is kind of this mere human who's swept up into this insanely big cosmic power struggle in this world among demi-gods, witches and wizards and entire kingdoms. But he was there at the very beginning with the Big Bad. So was Casca. They were the only survivors to his birth and have more inside knowledge than most. Hell, while the gurus have probably studied apostles and God Hand in books and visions, Guts has been interacting with them directly for years. He can tell them first hand what works and doesn't. And the Brand itself might present a unique opportunity for them. He and Casca are probably the only living people with these connections to the astral world. Whether they continue to have significance after the world merge remains to be seen.
 

Grifth

ZOMBIES they are everywere ....
Beautiful issue! just a quick question is miura drawing digital now? because these last 2 issues seem to have a change in style! :ubik:
 
Aazealh said:
"It can't be!! The man I've respected, the 100 man slayer, the strongest man of the Band of the Falcon! You're also an acquaintance of his, Guts?! Awesome, please introduce him to me!"

Too funny. Thanks for the summery. I am really looking forward to a complete translation.
 
Grifth said:
Beautiful issue! just a quick question is miura drawing digital now? because these last 2 issues seem to have a change in style! :ubik:

It is possible that he is using digital programs for screentoning or other small stuff, but if you look at his normal line work you can clearly see the strokes of a g pen. Of course Miura also still uses a brush and a maru pen, looking at the hair of the characters or at much thinner lines shows that.
 
Mangetsu said:
Of course Miura also still uses a brush and a maru pen, looking at the hair of the characters or at much thinner lines shows that.

I'm not so sure about this. There's a new wobbliness to some brush/brush pen-looking thick lines that looks very typical of digital lineart, and that also looks a lot like the wobbliness found on his digital paintings from the latest volume. Not to mention the slight change in style, which could mean he's adapting to new tools, and which happened around the same time he first showed his digital paintings. To be honest, I was pretty sure 344 was entirely digital (for some reason Gedflynn's face makes the use of a round brush with pressure sensitivity extremely obvious, look at his nostrils), but this time I don't know, maybe it's both. These filtered scans don't help.
 

Walter

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Eluvei said:
I'm not so sure about this. There's a new wobbliness to some brush/brush pen-looking thick lines that looks very typical of digital lineart, and that also looks a lot like the wobbliness found on his digital paintings from the latest volume. Not to mention the slight change in style, which could mean he's adapting to new tools, and which happened around the same time he first showed his digital paintings. To be honest, I was pretty sure 344 was entirely digital (for some reason Gedflynn's face makes the use of a round brush with pressure sensitivity extremely obvious, look at his nostrils), but this time I don't know, maybe it's both. These filtered scans don't help.
I would love to hear more from someone who has experience with these kinds of programs, so I created a sidebar thread here: http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=15089.msg242597#msg242597
 

Feeblecursedone

"This hammer has broken Daemons on my anvil, Elf.
Falconia is just a stepping stone? Jesus, Griffith is the most powerful being on Earth with his own kingdom and demon army. How much further can he go? Is there even a world left worth conquering?

Conquering entire world? Beyond even that? Striking against god himself.... ? :schnoz:I mean, we only assume Femto/Griffith is going to continue to play alongside the other side, what if he's playing it as long as it suits him? Guts says it perfectly in the last chapter, "He's the Falcon who flies as far as he can go, towards the highest possible goal. ( thanks Aaz/Puella) " Is being a God hand member truly the highest point? Will Griffith be satisfied by being equal to other God hand members? If he's the saviour, what are the other god hand's roles now that they're materialized/will be materialized? Can we assume they'll support Griffith in steering mankind to whatever goal Griffith has envisioned for them ( since IOE pretty much said he's going to decide their fate ), or will they have their own ideas as what to do ( so far they worked together to manipulate events for Griffith's reincarnation but who's to say its going to be like that forever ). Are we going to, at some point , see a clash of ideals? Or will they remain in shadows and support IOE's chosen champion?

Its not like Griffith's desire is the only one that matters, we have other 4 God Hands who were former humans as well and have ties to humanity that should manifest in their own vision/desire of/for the world. So why is it Griffith that gets all the fame ( aside being second main character ofc )? Not that I think they'll start to suddenly pull each other's hair, but I guess Im eager to see their background and what motivated them in life to become such grand figures. It ought to be especially interesting now that we might get to see their human forms ( and get an answer as to what the hell is going on with Void's weird skin-mouth mask ) :???:
 
I'm getting the same wonderful feels as I did the first read at Floras. We're gonna get some fantastic world building dialogue that will no doubt solve some questions that have gone unanswered for years.

What a time to be a fan! I personally am loving the island and all of its new and fascinating inhabitants. :ubik:
 

jackson_hurley

even the horses are cut in half!
What I'm wondering about the God Hand members now that they are in the physical world (or soon to be) is : will they keep their god hand look but with a physical presence or are they gonna turn like Femto/Griffith aka hiding in a human shell?

Griffith :" These are my new advisers..." :ubik: :void: :slan:

I personally think that Griffith will be the only one looking human. But I got curious about it.
 

Aazealh

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Feeblecursedone said:
I mean, we only assume Femto/Griffith is going to continue to play alongside the other side, what if he's playing it as long as it suits him? [...] Is being a God hand member truly the highest point? Will Griffith be satisfied by being equal to other God hand members?

Realistically, I don't think Femto could possibly turn on the Idea of Evil. They're not (at all) on the same level, and the difference is such that I don't think it would even fit his ambition. The Idea of Evil is literally a part of all mankind, an entity embodying a concept. It's too alien. And it's also what gave him his power, and I would expect that much like apostles can't really stand up to the God Hand, the God Hand can't stand up to what it's the hand of. But those considerations aren't even necessary if we follow the broad outline of how episode 83 defined their relationship. The Idea of Evil essentially created Femto to be what he is and to desire what he desires. He is its messenger and carries its will. His life was and still is the life it chose for him.

But anyway, regarding his ambition, it's not hard to think of more. He could covet total world domination. Every inch of the Earth. And he could also desire absolute control over mankind, not just as a king, but on a deep intellectual and spiritual level. Ranks upon ranks of lined up soldiers waiting for his command, busy workers scurrying everywhere to fulfill his wishes... Like ants obeying their queen.

Feeblecursedone said:
If he's the saviour, what are the other god hand's roles now that they're materialized/will be materialized? Can we assume they'll support Griffith in steering mankind to whatever goal Griffith has envisioned for them ( since IOE pretty much said he's going to decide their fate ), or will they have their own ideas as what to do ( so far they worked together to manipulate events for Griffith's reincarnation but who's to say its going to be like that forever ). Are we going to, at some point , see a clash of ideals? Or will they remain in shadows and support IOE's chosen champion? Its not like Griffith's desire is the only one that matters, we have other 4 God Hands who were former humans as well and have ties to humanity that should manifest in their own vision/desire of/for the world. So why is it Griffith that gets all the fame ( aside being second main character ofc )?

That is a good question and you half-answer it yourself, but you also give too much weight to what the Idea of Evil tells Griffith in episode 83 (which isn't canon, obligatory reminder). It doesn't tell him he'll decide the fate of mankind, but that his actions, whatever they may be, will be suitable. That is because his desire is Its desire, and It is a part of mankind. And this is also why the God Hand can work as a team. They each have their own desires, but those in turn fit the Idea of Evil's will. That is why and how they can work together. And I believe it perfectly fits all the story's developments so far. Femto was the one chosen to be incarnated, and the others supported him. But as you saw, his objective was not merely to become king of Midland. He opened a giant rift in the world, and through the rift his kindred came pouring. It's not a coincidence.

Obviously, we don't yet know what their goal is. Neither the global master plan hatched by the Idea of Evil, nor each of their individual objectives. But I'm quite sure that somehow, all of their personal interests will neatly fit together to help achieve the bigger scheme. That is why they are, literally, the Hand of God. Through their own desires, they do Its bidding. One thing to keep in mind is that Griffith is defined by his insatiable ambition, his desire to rule, but what of the others? Ubik seems to have a keen interest in the mind itself. Slan is fascinated by emotions and especially the baser instincts. We don't have all the details, but I believe this complementarity of sorts makes it possible for them to all be satisfied at once. And if not, well... that only makes Guts' work easier. :beast:

Feeblecursedone said:
get an answer as to what the hell is going on with Void's weird skin-mouth mask

I-it's..it's not a mask. :magni:

Salem said:
I'm getting the same wonderful feels as I did the first read at Floras. We're gonna get some fantastic world building dialogue that will no doubt solve some questions that have gone unanswered for years. What a time to be a fan! I personally am loving the island and all of its new and fascinating inhabitants. :ubik:

Yep, it's only just starting, the real heavy stuff is yet to come. :guts:

jackson_hurley said:
What I'm wondering about the God Hand members now that they are in the physical world (or soon to be) is : will they keep their god hand look but with a physical presence or are they gonna turn like Femto/Griffith aka hiding in a human shell? [...] I personally think that Griffith will be the only one looking human. But I got curious about it.

It's also possible that their presence and influence in the corporeal world may be reinforced without them having a body of flesh like Femto does.
 
This episode is an absolute treasure trove of information! Thanks for the summary. :daiba:

Slightly off-topic--the filter used on the Korean scans is dreadful. Totally kills all the fine lines of Miura's art. Sort of feels like looking at the Mona Lisa while slightly squinting your eyes.
 

Walter

Administrator
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Episode 77: Great Gurus (Ep. 345) (1h 54m)
We sit down with a bunch of old people to talk about a bunch of old people in Elfhelm for our review of Episode 345, including the secrets of Berserk's ancient world and Guts' value to the future. We even make some time at the end of the show to talk about the new anime with a guest who hasn't yet been exposed to its particular brand of terrible.
 
Wenliinvictus said:
Falconia is just a stepping stone? Jesus, Griffith is the most powerful being on Earth with his own kingdom and demon army. How much further can he go? Is there even a world left worth conquering?

Griffith, like many conquerors of history, is not satisfied after accomplishing his initial aims, and with his transformation, he is essentially an inhuman sociopath wearing a facade on top of that.

My theory is that his goal now is to use Falconia as a giant sacrificial altar to achieve even greater power; sacrificing almost the entire rest of the human species (and maybe even his army of Apostles) during a third eclipse event in order to transcend the God Hand, to become a true "god" himself that can wield omnipotent power over reality and magic.
 

Walter

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Defengar said:
Griffith, like many conquerors of history, is not satisfied after accomplishing his initial aims, and with his transformation, he is essentially an inhuman sociopath wearing a facade on top of that.

My theory is that his goal now is to use Falconia as a giant sacrificial altar to achieve even greater power; sacrificing almost the entire rest of the human species (and maybe even his army of Apostles) during a third eclipse event in order to transcend the God Hand, to become a true "god" himself that can wield omnipotent power over reality and magic.

If Falconia, and thus its residents, are merely a stepping stone for him transcending the God Hand, then why would they make valid sacrifices...? Particulary if you regard him as a sociopath (he's not -- he's a demigod who shed his emotions), it wouldn't work by the rules of what makes a sacrifice.
 
jackson_hurley said:
What I'm wondering about the God Hand members now that they are in the physical world (or soon to be) is : will they keep their god hand look but with a physical presence or are they gonna turn like Femto/Griffith aka hiding in a human shell?

Griffith :" These are my new advisers..." :ubik: :void: :slan:

I personally think that Griffith will be the only one looking human. But I got curious about it.

I don't think the world (ours or Berserk's lol) can handle a Slan in human form.

Walter said:
If Falconia, and thus its residents, are merely a stepping stone for him transcending the God Hand, then why would they make valid sacrifices...? Particulary if you regard him as a sociopath (he's not -- he's a demigod who shed his emotions), it wouldn't work by the rules of what makes a sacrifice.

I mean, there's always the chance that there are other ways of going about sacrificing, especially on this scale. Did anyone see the Ganishka thing coming? That was like watching the end of 2001 Space Odyssey! Also if he kills almost all of mankind, the idea of evil (if it's even still a thing) would become massively diminished. A spiritual power vacuum could potentially happen that Griffith sees himself as filling...

And yeah, he's not technically a sociopath since he's not a human, but as an entity he and most of the Apostles we have seen in general display nearly all of the symptoms of being a sociopath: http://www.decision-making-confidence.com/sociopath-symptoms.html

Maybe I'm reading to much into this, but Griffith is giving me a lot of vibes similar to Father from Fullmetal Alchemist.
 

Walter

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Defengar said:
I mean, there's always the chance that there are other ways of going about sacrificing, especially on this scale. Did anyone see the Ganishka thing coming? That was like watching the end of 2001 Space Odyssey! Also if he kills almost all of mankind, the idea of evil (if it's even still a thing) would become massively diminished. A spiritual power vacuum could potentially happen that Griffith sees himself as filling...

What Ganishka did wasn't a sacrifice. And what you propose doesn't sound very likely -- Griffith would rule over the... what, 5% left of the planet's population? That doesn't sound like a doable endgame for Berserk.

And yeah, he's not technically a sociopath since he's not a human, but as an entity he and most of the Apostles we have seen in general display nearly all of the symptoms of being a sociopath: http://www.decision-making-confidence.com/sociopath-symptoms.html

I think it would be very limiting, if not misleading, to subscribe to that way of thinking about these supernatural beings in a fantasy story. Were they once human? Certainly, but I think their lack of empathy for others doesn't weigh as heavily on their motivations as all the other factors at play.

Maybe I'm reading to much into this, but Griffith is giving me a lot of vibes similar to Father from Fullmetal Alchemist.

Meaning... what? That he has to abide by that character's arc?
 
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