Episode 347

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
I was cracking up at the DS on the laundry line. :guts:

What a fantastic episode, wow! This is one of those few times where we weren't completely spoiled on what to expect, and gotta say, seeing it all at once was nice.

I do think the imagery on the final page is supposed to be representative of the Beast and the Eclipse. The shape of its design is very evocative of the Beast's eye. But it's not just that, of course. Casca knows about Guts' dark side, and coming to terms with her exposure to it AND the Eclipse are likely to be key in the coming episode(s).
 

Mammon

Mangoku army
Time to re-re-read that episode, it gets funnier every time (notice new details, background stuff, etc).
What a time to be a Berserk enthusiast, a huge milestone in the story being so close...
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Well, holee sheet! I did not expect that to move forward so quickly, or surreally. I love the complete freedom Miura has given himself with his artwork and his storytelling technique overall. This is my favorite episode in a long time, and the previous few have been great as well (not to mention Rickert, Rakshas, THE SLAP, etc).

I'm a little worried where it's going though, this was so joyful, and we know it's not going to be that way next episode, and I also doubt this will all be so uncomplicated. As a matter of fact, the speed and ease, ok 25 volumes later, with which this is happening is giving me a bad feeling like something is going to go terribly wrong... but I hope that's all there is to it and Miura is just going to very pleasantly surprise us with a fully sane, mad as hell Casca. :casca:
 
Oh, Miura, you are truly the face of evil. Throwing that ominous page at us after spending four episodes straight lulling us into a false sense of security with your goofiness and your whimsy and your sense of wonder...

Definitely never expected to see anything like the childish scribbles in Casca's dreamscape though. Hell, I never expected to use the term "childish scribbles" to describe anything in Berserk before. But it works! It's funny, probably the singlemost hilarious thing in these past few episodes yet, and it perfectly encapsulate Casca's state of mind like nothing else. Which also makes it depressing as hell.

DANGERDOOOOM said:
You're looking into the last page too much. It's in no way the Beast of Darkness, since it only relates to Guts himself. The Beast of Darkness is used to symbolize Guts' revenge, deepest sorrows, and the immense hatred.

It has no purpose in Casca's dream whatsoever.
I'm going to echo Walter's sentiments here. The last page evokes some very recurring imagery.

Example 1
Example 2
Example 3

Images of Guts and his assault on her are likely going to be present in Casca's dreams, as are the Eclipse and her rape at Femto's hands. In her current state, she probably can't even differentiate between the two. And if that's the case, then Schierke and Farnese, the two people who arguably have the most respect and admiration for Guts, may see him perform his most depraved act yet, which so far, only he and Casca know about. As if the process of curing Casca won't be painful enough. :judo:

Ohhhhh, these next few episodes are going to be intense. Intense...and soul-crushing.
 

DANGERDOOOOM

Rest In Peace, Kentaro Miura. We will miss you.
Cyrus Jong said:
Images of Guts and his assault on her are likely going to be present in Casca's dreams, as are the Eclipse and her rape at Femto's hands. In her current state, she probably can't even differentiate between the two. And if that's the case, then Schierke and Farnese, the two people who arguably have the most respect and admiration for Guts, may see him perform his most depraved act yet, which so far, only he and Casca know about. As if the process of curing Casca won't be painful enough. :judo:

Great examples, and I do see what's being said here. But I don't think the Beast will actually be revealed at all in Casca's dreams, unless it somehow manifests because of Schierke's previous dealings with :beast:. Since this will be in Casca's deep suppressed thoughts and memories, I feel the main focal point of her thoughts will be of the Eclipse, since this event was the direct cause of her mental condition now.

Casca has always shown to be afraid of Guts immediately after he wakes up from the Eclipse. I don't know if it's been fully explained as to why she showed this much animosity towards him from the start, even before his consumed hatred took control of him to take aggression/frustration out on her.

It might show Guts as an evil dark shadow (maybe beast-like creature) attacking her, but I believe with Schierke's previous experience with Guts' uncontrollable frenzies, and her knowledge of who Guts actually is, she should be able to comprehend and understand how the Eclipse permanently ended up scarring both Casca and Guts' psychological state of mind. As for Farnese, I don't know how well she will handle what she sees.

It will be a traumatic experience for both Schierke and Farnese, but not enough I think to lose any respect for Guts. They might just end up despising Griffith as much as Guts. They will understand why Guts has been so inclusive towards his past.
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Walter said:
I do think the imagery on the final page is supposed to be representative of the Beast and the Eclipse.

I don't see it. The Beast of Darkness' eye has a characteristic shape, and it's not there. Could it morph into it later? Maybe. But as it currently is, I think that's seriously reaching. Remember, this is Casca's dream. Not Guts'. It doesn't have to revolve around Guts' own trauma.

Furthermore, this is Casca's deep consciousness. The part of her that's absent from her day-to-day self right now. Her "dream" is more likely to revolve around what she endured during the Eclipse and around her previous life. The big question is whether she's trapped in a nightmarish scenario, or has fashioned an alternate reality where it didn't happen.

However, that panel could still symbolize Guts' eye. You know how? Because him looking at her, seeing her in that vilified state, being powerless and abused, is the last thing she experienced before her consciousness faded. Much like Guts' last sight, forever burned into his dead right eye, was of her being raped... Her last memory is of him watching her... of that shame and guilt? Remember her words: "don't look". Only six months and we'll know.
 
DANGERDOOOOM said:
Great examples, and I do see what's being said here. But I don't think the Beast will actually be revealed at all in Casca's dreams, unless it somehow manifests because of Schierke's previous dealings with :beast:. Since this will be in Casca's deep suppressed thoughts and memories, I feel the main focal point of her thoughts will be of the Eclipse, since this event was the direct cause of her mental condition now.

Casca has always shown to be afraid of Guts immediately after he wakes up from the Eclipse. I don't know if it's been fully explained as to why she showed this much animosity towards him from the start, even before his consumed hatred took control of him to take aggression/frustration out on her.

Casca's initial fear of Guts didn't necessarily seem to be of him personally. According to Rickert, the only person she felt comfortable around was Erika, so it's likely her fear at that point extended to all males, or at least of people above a certain age or size range. After some time, she appeared to get better, in that she could at least tolerate his presence, but was still anxious about being in close proximity, and physical contact was still a big no-no. By the time she reached Albion, she seemed to get over most of her anxiety and only really showed fear of people and things that were trying to harm her, and after the events, had no problems with Guts whatsoever. It wasn't until Guts attempted to throttle Casca while possessed by a specter that she began to fear him personally, his treating her like a prisoner afterward fueled her resentment of him, and his attempt to rape her permanently cemented him as a monster in her mind.

While I don't for a second think we'll see the Beast either, I do think it's possible that we (and by extension, Farnese and Schierke) may see images representing Guts' attempted rape on Casca alongside or even blended with her rape at Femto's hands. Now, if they do see anything like it, I don't think Schierke and Farnese will necessarily turn against Guts. But there will be some pointed questions later on, questions that I don't think he'll be able to answer.

But I'm getting ahead of myself. Still too many ifs and buts to make a call about what's going to happen in these dark depths.
 
Usually I read through all the posts in the thread before posting myself but I just read this episode and OMG its so damn satisfying!!! I really REALLY love this episode! I cant emphasize it enough! I just adore how Miura can approach this in such a seemingly lighthearted fashion yet keeping the sentimentality and gravity of the moment. Even though we kinda had an idea of what was in store Im still baffled by how masterfully Miura is constructing this.

Im sorry it might sound generic and even cheesy at this point but he literally NEVER seizes to amaze me.

Now, Im pretty sure there should be a skullkast about it so Im looking forward to that AND reading all you guys' thoughts!
 
Well, what to say? Miura is a goddamn genius. Danann design, the capital sentence on Magnifico :ganishka:, the bizarre surreality of the dreams which reflected the experience and personality of the dreamers, and that last panel my god :magni:.

Even though i'm dying to know more after an episode like this it's just impossible to complain for the hiatus.
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Aazealh said:
The big question is whether she's trapped in a nightmarish scenario, or has fashioned an alternate reality where it didn't happen.

I'm replying to my own post to say that her "dream" could be both. Thinking of scenarios off the top of my head, she could be endlessly caring for her troops in there. She was still their commander, and I would expect that she feels responsible for their fate. Much more so than Guts. "I was a failure. I didn't protect them." She could even be trying to nurse then back to life, piecing them back together as they perpetually fall apart. Even Guts would be in there in his wounded state. Going further still, she might even try to get them to march or fight, to remain an army. Forever losing a fight against an invincible enemy.

Going in another direction, she could be trying to hide from the accusing glares they would all cast at her. "Your fault! Your fault!" Would we hear Corcus tell her she wasn't fit to be a leader? Or even Guts? Like I referenced previously, Guts' stare would be the worst by far. Maybe up in the sky, all-seeing. Or would that be Femto's own unwavering eye?

Going off the deep end, what if in her dreams, she was even... A man? A denial of her feminity as the result of her life of hardships. "Women are weak. I'm a warrior." In her confused mind, maybe that would fix it all. I'm expecting that a central theme will be feelings of guilt (something we also saw with Guts, to a smaller extent).

Now, the big unknown is whether events from after the Eclipse will be incorporated in the dream. I could see it go either way. Maybe it'll be the big moments, or maybe only the traumatic ones, when she was assaulted (including by Guts). That opens the question of the happier moments though, and much more importantly, of her son. Will he be there at all? If this includes post-Eclipse events, then I can't imagine that he won't be. He's too important to her. But those inclusions aren't guaranteed.

By the way, the fact the first thing some people thought when they saw the black sun in Casca's dream was "it's about Guts" cements the fact it's better he's not involved in her rescue. Guts will most certainly be present in a way or another, but this isn't his mind, and this isn't his time to shine. On that tangent, while it's maybe too early to say, I wonder if we'll see Casca's own version of a personified inner demon? It might not be needed, given that she's literally surrounded herself with it in a way... But interesting to ponder.

On another note, it'll be interesting to see whether the "Griffithian" conception of a dream is referenced at all in there, even if just in passing.

Lastly, I'm surprised no one mentioned how we were indirectly teased the last page of this episode with that picture of Miura's office in the guidebook. It's shown prominently! I was traveling all day yesterday and had limited access to the Internet, so I didn't take the time to post about it or even think too much, but I'd assumed it was a peak at a future episode... Wrong! And there's a line in that panel, from Farnese and/or Schierke: "The Black Sun illuminates..."
 
Such a fantastic episode!

I wonder if Schierke's dream, in addition to everything else, is also a reminder to the reader that she's still very young, and whether that could play a part in what's to come. I guess it's safe to say that she's grown a lot since joining Guts, but I wonder if what she will experience while helping Casca will be beyond what she's experienced before.

Aazealh said:
That opens the question of the happier moments though, and much more importantly, of her son. Will he be there at all? If this includes post-Eclipse events, then I can't imagine that he won't be. He's too important to her. But those inclusions aren't guaranteed.

I think it would make sense for her son to play a role in all of this. If anything he might might be incentive enough for her to "come back" and move past what happened. I don't know if the translation I read is accurate enough to be referred to, but he might be a key to the resolution that was mentioned by Danan.
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
m said:
I wonder if Schierke's dream, in addition to everything else, is also a reminder to the reader that she's still very young, and whether that could play a part in what's to come.

I don't know if it's a reminder, but it certainly does reflect her age. I found both her and Farnese's dreams to be very enlightening. That said, Farnese's is the more interesting one to me. Her doing chores and being happy with that, being praised for her good work, having done a lot of them and mixing in the Holy Iron Chain Knights along with more recent things... The focus on cleaning things, washing them, and Mozgus' bizarro presence (so fitting for a dream) as a means of cleansing them are all very interesting. Plus the representation of Guts and the armor in there. It both shines a certain light on her deep personality, but also carries that nonsensical and irrelevant aspect that dreams have.

And yes, I expect their encounter with Casca's inner self, as well as the world she's built in there, to be a difficult time for both of them.
 
I wonder what Farnese thinks about Mozgus now, does she still respect him since she's using him as a scrubbing stone, or does the fact that he is a scrubbing stone mean that he's something mundane and meaningless? :mozgus:
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Earthlingzing said:
I wonder what Farnese thinks about Mozgus now, does she still respect him since she's using him as a scrubbing stone, or does the fact that he is a scrubbing stone mean that he's something mundane and meaningless?

It's a dream. Dream stuff doesn't always have deep meaning. Maybe his peculiar facial features just reminded her of a stone.
 
What an amazing episode! A few scattered thoughts.

The limp Dragonslayer hanging up to dry had me laughing. The Berserker armor speaking to Farnese was great too.

The fact that it said "Don't prey!" tells me that that line really effected Farnese. I mean we already knew this based on what happened at the time and immediately after, but its presence in her dream really shows that she still carries the weight of that event.

The Magnifico/Puck scene was great. Genuinely funny and after years of speculating what Magnifico would try to do after getting to the island, this was a great conclusion to that little plot thread.

Guts taking a deep breath and counting on Schierke and Farnese to handle Casca is yet another example of how far he's come since the Black Swordsman arc.

Serpico telling Guts to have faith was almost fourth wall breaking. I feel like he was half speaking to us.

That last page though. I noticed it in the leaked Guidebook images too but it still sent chills down my spine.

Really, one of the most impactful episodes of Berserk in recent memory. I can't wait for 348.
 
Fantastic episode!

Wow did Miura move it forward quite naturally. We already had Guts recount his tale earlier offscreen to the Gurus, in which Danan was already there, so there was no need to repeat that. The tie up of Magnifico and Puck was pretty brilliant as well, with her putting their ridiculous plan in perspective. She really didn’t seem all that disturbed about someone planning the enslavement of a species though.

And l’m so glad we moved right into the corridor of dreams. I was fully expecting a quest that the party would have to go on to earn this from her, much like Flora asked the party to deal with the trolls before the talisman, but this feels much more natural. It’s very cool how the process is tied to the natural world with psychedelic magic mushrooms as opposed to some spell she casts. It makes it a little outside of Danan’s control. She’s guiding it, but not directing it, leaving plenty of room for potential danger.

Farnese’s dream has been covered pretty well to this point, but Scheirke’s is pretty interesting to me. A lot of insecurity and secrets in here. I love the more childish art style for it as well. And Casca’s art style is a genius way to show her state of mind.

An interesting thought on how dreams are actually a part of the astral world: If they visit the eclipse and the God Hand in Casca’s dreams, can the God Hand there sense them and interact since it’s more than just a memory? Perhaps a nightmarish gateway to Elfhelm. That could be terrifying.

Lastly, and I mean no disrespect here, does anyone think Miura’s art style has taken a pretty dramatic turn as far as character design? Especially with Guts. The backgrounds are just as detailed as ever, but I’m noticing extra big eyes and pupils on our party in almost an anime style, and with Guts I’ve notices a few panels where his face seems just a bit… off. A bit smushed at times. It’s not affecting my overall enjoyment of the story, it’s just surprising how different Guts looks lately.
 

Squiddot

The Falcon needs you. You don't need him!
It’s pretty interesting that Miura has chosen to link the Eclipse with an eye again, this time with a character with much less literary precedence to. Guts lost an eye. “The black sun” cruelly becomes his psychological replacement that only replays scenes of horror and loss. And it could be a way to represent the nature of apostles and the God Hand as “forbidden knowledge”, or a symbol of the new perspective of Griffith and the world that he was forced to witness.

When you apply the imagery to Casca you lose that literal connection that grounds the metaphor, and you can only connect it with the more abstract meaning, which doesn’t hold as much water.

Still, there was a reason Miura rendered out the sky in the shape of an eye again. And whatever reason that is will no doubt be explained (very satisfactorily if history repeats) during this adventure.

And while this eye is very different to the jagged lightning scar associated with Guts, that row of blowing flower petals is making it really hard not to see the beast grinning in there. Completely off the wall theory, but maybe the beast has grown into some sort of memetic creature that bleeds into other subconscious. It sort of works with Danan’s offhand comment about the connection between dreams and the spirit world. But personally I'm not feeling it. The Beast of Darkness doesn’t need this development to be any scarier and the purely psychological nature of it is a really great aspect. Thought it might be worth throwing out at least.

The sequence beginning the dream sequence is pretty confusing. One moment the characters appear regular sized and the next they’re smaller than Ivarella. Is it some sort of Alice in Wonderland style moment to indicate the dreaming has begun? Because there’s a much more fitting transition for that afterwards. So it’s actually happening?
 

DANGERDOOOOM

Rest In Peace, Kentaro Miura. We will miss you.
Squiddot said:
Completely off the wall theory, but maybe the beast has grown into some sort of memetic creature that bleeds into other subconscious. It sort of works with Danan’s offhand comment about the connection between dreams and the spirit world. But personally I'm not feeling it.

I doubt something like that could possibly be happening. If it were true, I'd feel Schierke would be the one most vulnerable to the Beast of Darkness since she's been the one restraining Guts' fierce and wild emotions using her astral body.
 
Aazealh said:
However, that panel could still symbolize Guts' eye. You know how? Because him looking at her, seeing her in that vilified state, being powerless and abused, is the last thing she experienced before her consciousness faded. Much like Guts' last sight, forever burned into his dead right eye, was of her being raped... Her last memory is of him watching her... of that shame and guilt? Remember her words: "don't look". Only six months and we'll know.

Honestly, I don't know how likely it is, but I really like the sound of that. So many things transpired that day, she was bound to be overwhelmed on many sides and considering her love for Guts, being raped specifically in front of him definitely left a lot of scars as it did on Guts.

I hope we will get to see a whole deconstruction of all the parts that traumatized Casca, it's probably the only way to help her cope.
In another post you mentioned Casca probably also thinking she failed as a leader, I hope this in particular is something we will get to see, especially since Judeau emphasized before dying that she was their commander and Rickert denied the Falcon of Light as his commander in vol 38.

Casca is still alive so the original Band of Falcon isn't completely annihilated yet (if we go by Judeau's words), meaning I'd really love to see what she's thinking of herself as a commander with everything that happened during the eclipse.
Of course the next few episodes are bound to be extremely painful (I was already saddened by how the first layer of her consciousness appeared, poor girl), but I am happy we will get to see things from Casca's point of view for the first time in a long while.

ApostleBob said:
An interesting thought on how dreams are actually a part of the astral world: If they visit the eclipse and the God Hand in Casca’s dreams, can the God Hand there sense them and interact since it’s more than just a memory? Perhaps a nightmarish gateway to Elfhelm. That could be terrifying.

Ah this is something I didn't catch on immediately so thanks for pointing that out, and interestingly maybe this is the trigger people who think Griffith and his apostles are going to attack Skellig Island are waiting for.

From what Danan said though, Farnese and Schierke entered Casca's dream and Casca is the one making the rules of her own dreams, so if her dreams are about everything she went through during the Eclipse, this sounds a bit too easy if the God Hand chooses this particular time to interact with the girls in my opinion.
 

Kompozinaut

Sylph Sword
A lot of people have mentioned Casca's dream and the child-like drawing style. I found this particularly interesting. I know it's a stylistic choice to convey her simple state of mind, but I think another interesting take-away from this is the passive breaking of the fourth wall (NOTE: I'm not making any ridiculous claims here, I promise). Schierke seems to acknowledge that the scribbles are actually perceptible though she doesn't outright mention them, but clearly she can tell the land(dream)scape has shifted. So are they actually seeing a child's drawing in her dream? Or is that more for us readers? I think it should also be noted that the style in Schierke's own dream appears to be more childish, especially compared with Farnese's right after.

It reminds me of diegetic and non-diegetic music in films; how some music, like a score, is meant for the viewers and the characters are unaware, while some music, like something coming out of a car stereo, is meant primarily for and recognized by the characters in the story. Then you get into the weird world of things when diegetic music suddenly shifts to non-diegetic and vis versa (usually using, again, a radio as a conduit for that transition), or how music within a scene may be revealing some kind of irony unknown to the characters.

Just something to think about :slan:
 
So are they actually seeing a child's drawing in her dream? Or is that more for us readers?

It would be interesting if that were the case but that's not the impression I got from it. It looks more to me like what they're seeing is the way Casca generally perceives things -- in a warped and unclear way. Like instead of looking at a person and hearing all the words they say, she sees a twisted, shadowy version of them, and simply hears mumbling. As if she's so trapped inside her own mind that the outside world in which she interacts is barely paid attention to. It's like the part of her mind that thinks clearly is completely shut down and only her base instincts are in action here. I've heard similar descriptions for how some forms of autism effect people: They see, hear, smell, and feel everything around them, but their brain won't focus on any one thing long enough to form a detailed image of it, which leaves them with a distorted and unclear view of the world and the people around them.

At least, that's about what I got from it.
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
ApostleBob said:
psychedelic magic mushrooms as opposed to some spell she casts

I also like how connected to nature and the tree the ritual is. However some people seem to think they're just hallucinating on shrooms or something, which isn't the case. This is still very much a magic ritual, they're not on drugs or anything.

ApostleBob said:
An interesting thought on how dreams are actually a part of the astral world: If they visit the eclipse and the God Hand in Casca’s dreams, can the God Hand there sense them and interact since it’s more than just a memory? Perhaps a nightmarish gateway to Elfhelm. That could be terrifying.

I don't think it works like that. Ubik would be the likely candidate for invading someone's dreamscape, but he's not Freddy Krueger. I do think he could theoretically appear in someone's dreams though, but here in this specific case it would detract from what matters in my opinion.

ApostleBob said:
Lastly, and I mean no disrespect here, does anyone think Miura’s art style has taken a pretty dramatic turn as far as character design? Especially with Guts.

I don't really think so. Style always evolves of course, but I think here what throws you off is that Guts is mostly in small panels, and a bunch of them were likely drawn by assistants. That's not usually the case. Plus there's the fact those images are heavily filtered. It doesn't look the same on paper.

Squiddot said:
It’s pretty interesting that Miura has chosen to link the Eclipse with an eye again

We don't know that. It's pure speculation for now. All we've seen so far is a sky covered in dark clouds, from which the only tight opening shows a black sun. Know what this is very reminiscent of? What the sky looked like during the Eclipse.

Squiddot said:
“The black sun” cruelly becomes his psychological replacement that only replays scenes of horror and loss. And it could be a way to represent the nature of apostles and the God Hand as “forbidden knowledge”, or a symbol of the new perspective of Griffith and the world that he was forced to witness. When you apply the imagery to Casca you lose that literal connection that grounds the metaphor, and you can only connect it with the more abstract meaning, which doesn’t hold as much water.

You're stretching this way too far. The Black Sun symbolizes the Eclipse first and foremost. It makes for great imagery when shown as an eye, sure, but it's not strictly limited to that. Besides, we've seen flashbacks of the Eclipse from Casca's perspective before, and the Black Sun was there as well. Some shots used her own eye as the catalyst, her pupil being the Black Sun.

Squiddot said:
And while this eye is very different to the jagged lightning scar associated with Guts, that row of blowing flower petals is making it really hard not to see the beast grinning in there. Completely off the wall theory, but maybe the beast has grown into some sort of memetic creature that bleeds into other subconscious.

I'm going to have to give you a
thumbdown.gif
on that one. This is ridiculous on many levels.

Squiddot said:
The sequence beginning the dream sequence is pretty confusing. One moment the characters appear regular sized and the next they’re smaller than Ivarella. Is it some sort of Alice in Wonderland style moment to indicate the dreaming has begun? Because there’s a much more fitting transition for that afterwards. So it’s actually happening?

The mushrooms are connected to the tree. It shows them being taken into the Corridor of Dreams through Danan's (and the tree's) magic.

Delta Phi said:
So are they actually seeing a child's drawing in her dream? Or is that more for us readers? I think it should also be noted that the style in Schierke's own dream appears to be more childish, especially compared with Farnese's right after.

Yes, the styles of both Schierke and Casca's dreams deliberately represent their state of mind. And they are indeed perceiving Casca's dream like we do: as an altered, childlike version of reality. I don't think it's meant to break the fourth wall.
 
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