Episode 358

You're mistaken about the meaning of "Idea" in the name "Idea of Evil". I don't blame you because it's easily confusing, but it's actually a Greek word (not an English one!) Miura uses in reference to Plato's theory of the same name. The meaning of the word is meant to be "source/origin", as in "Source of Evil". Our understanding of how that being was created is mostly informed by a part of the story that isn't cannon anymore, so it's hard to be fully autoritative about it, but in short, no it wouldn't be enough for people to think good thoughts or be happy for it to change.

If you're interested, you can find the dialog between the Idea of Evil and Griffith (from episode 83, that was removed from the story) here.

Furthermore, our undestanding is that Griffith is currently executing a plan that was conceived by the Idea of Evil, so it would make no sense for that plan to be detrimental to it.



Welcome to our community, we're glad to have you with us!
Thank you very much! I wasn't aware that part of the story was no longer cannon! I'm starting to re-read berserk and there's a lot that I need to remember. Either way, I appreciate your clarification~
 
Stayed away from social media for the last couple of days so I wouldn't get spoiler on the new episode (and Endgame). Just got my YA issue, so I'm going to dive into these conversations and the detailed podcast. Loving every bit of this episode.
 
Maybe it's wishful thinking, but I was thinking this episode could segue nicely back into Elfhelm. Griffith knows the child is eating into him now, possibly more and more as he continues to grow, and is probably going to do something about it.

So then we would go back to Guts and Casca. Since she can now speak, she mentions the personal significance of the boy, only for the elves/magicians to reinforce it by revealing they have been in some vague contact with its astral form, just as Schierke speculated, and that it is the only known creature that can meddle with the hawk. Maybe even Skull Knight has been in cahoots with them all along (hence Puck commenting on his aura) and gets to show up once more at last. SK's the one who saved Guts and Casca, so he's indeed responsible for the rebirth of the child himself to some extent. The entire birth and rebirth of the child seems to have taken place at the edges of causality (the God Hand outright said that they didn't expect Casca to survive) and yet it seems it has had some sort of butterfly effect-like expansion and now the demon child is more or less Ganishka-fied in its rebirth and directly able to interfer at the very least with the facade of Griffith's physical body.

That would tie the more personal journey of Guts with the overall objective of defeating Griffith and timely shift the currently accomplished group objective to protecting the boy. It also explains the Griffith episodes, as it sets up quite a bit of time passing in Falconia as well as fast travel, so that Griffith can sneak into the treetubes at a full moon night and try to assassinate the boy when it appears to Guts and Casca. This then would be the so-called confrontation with Griffith that Miura said is near. Maybe Sonia secretly follows him thinking he's going to see the princess or something, so that the prophecy about Sonia meeting Schierke again can too be checked on the list of loose threads. Or maybe he just gets there from Casca activating the behelit after remembering the eclipse, and asks her for her most valued (her child) as a sacrifice. We've seen the God Hand get rejected before so it's not out of the realm of possibility that a behelit would find an owner only due to the anticipated convenience of having someone be brought to their world. Or maybe the next episode will be Rickert, who knows.
 

Aazealh

そうはいかぬ
Staff member
Maybe it's wishful thinking, but I was thinking this episode could segue nicely back into Elfhelm.
Oh, you don't say! (That's been everyone's conclusion in this thread since last week)

SK's the one who saved Guts and Casca, so he's indeed responsible for the rebirth of the child himself to some extent.
Uhhh, what? You mean he saved Casca, and therefore she could give birth in the first place? Sure, I guess.

The entire birth and rebirth of the child seems to have taken place at the edges of causality
More like at the very center of it, actually. These occurrences at referred to as "junctions of time" in volume 34.

now the demon child is more or less Ganishka-fied in its rebirth
I wouldn't say that, no.

directly able to interfer at the very least with the facade of Griffith's physical body.
It could be argued that it's the actually the boy's physical body, and that Femto has overtaken it.

Griffith can sneak into the treetubes at a full moon night and try to assassinate the boy when it appears to Guts and Casca.
Uhhh what? You... you're aware that Griffith literally transforms into the boy when there's a full moon, right? That's why he disappears at the end of this episode. They share the same body, and when the moon is full, the boy can take over.

the prophecy about Sonia meeting Schierke again can too be checked on the list of loose threads.
I have a hard time understanding this kind of joyless approach to a series. There are no "loose threads" that need to be marked on a list. We're not doing a tractor's checkup.

Or maybe he just gets there from Casca activating the behelit after remembering the eclipse
:ganishka:
 

Griffith

My posts are better.
I have a hard time understanding this kind of joyless approach to a series. There are no "loose threads" that need to be marked on a list. We're not doing a tractor's checkup.
I'm only reading this series to see Theresia finally kill Guts, and to find out why he had sex with that Apostle that looks like the Alien Queen crossed with the vegetable gremlin from Gremlins 2. So many diversions since then; I want answers, Miura! :puck: :miura:
 
Honestly about the moon child, I though that it was due to the world merging with Griffith and him being "split" into 2 halves not sharing the "same" body, but meanwhile Griffith got the best deal, the moon child was only able to appear during full moon where the spiritual world is strongest. Similar to what happened with Ryu and Fou Lu that are 2 independent halves of the same being

So yeah, basically it confirms that Griffith and moon child are sharing body but Griffith being the one one in complete control aside full moon nights and aware that the moon child emerges then.
 

Aazealh

そうはいかぬ
Staff member
So yeah, basically it confirms that Griffith and moon child are sharing body but Griffith being the one one in complete control aside full moon nights and aware that the moon child emerges then.
He's called the "boy in the moonlight", which we tend to abbreviate as Moonlight Boy. "Moon child" is a step too far though, the boy doesn't come from the moon...
Also, if you go back and read volume 22, specifically when Guts and Griffith meet on the Hill of Swords, you'll find that Griffith isn't actually always in complete control of the body. When his parents are involved, the boy can take over, like he did when he saved Casca.
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Honestly about the moon child, I though that it was due to the world merging with Griffith and him being "split" into 2 halves not sharing the "same" body, but meanwhile Griffith got the best deal, the moon child was only able to appear during full moon where the spiritual world is strongest.
Not sure I understand your meaning here, but the worlds didn't merge until well after Femto appeared as Griffith. The world began to crack (the phrase used is ほころぶ) upon his appearance, but it doesn't have anything to do with the dual-ownership of the body Femto inhabited. In brief, the boy was added to the pressure cooker of the egg, and out came something of a hybrid. They share a body, with Griffith in a dominant role most of the time, but on full moons, the boy seizes control.

Also, wow, an uncited reference to BoF4?! Not something I see everyday.
 

RaffoBaffo

Ex-Newser of the late Berserk Chronicles
Regarding the Moonlight BOI, I'm curious to see his next appearance.
Using "appearance" in more than a sense.

He was like this the first time we saw it, and like this the last.
I'm not sure if it's only the changing of the drawing style, but to me it look like he has grown quite a bit.

Completely unrelated, I received a Trophy for my 10th Anniversary on the Forum.
I feel old.
 

Griffith

My posts are better.
Is it possible that Griffith's intentions are benevolent? Maybe he just wants to make the greatest civilization of all time, without the ulterior motives.
Well, Griffith could genuinely want the best for his human civilization and it's citizens, but that doesn't mean it's what's best for the world and the civilizations that currently exist, not to mention the ones that previously existed that he essentially already destroyed. So, while Griffith could very well be telling the truth about his intentions regarding Falconia, we've already seen there's other intended consequences at work.

Speculatiing further, as we discussed on the skullcast, creating this worldwide human civilization, Griffith/Femto would basically be destroying the fantastical, ethereal world that was previously partitioned off from humanity, creating a world where humans, and their desires, are supreme. I wonder how one could leverage the power and desires of such a world if they were so positioned. Of course, creating that world could easily be the aim rather than the means to something next, but we'll have to wait to see if anyone knows and/or if Griff even succeeds in his current proposals (would be kind of sad if he wiped everyone else off the map before Guts and friends even had a chance to intervene =).
 
Last edited:
Is it possible that Griffith's intentions are benevolent? Maybe he just wants to make the greatest civilization of all time, without the ulterior motives.
There exists a mental illness called Munchausen syndrome by proxy (MSBP). It's when a person causes another physical harm, then takes care of him and heals the harm he caused. What Femto is doing is very similar to this syndrome, albeit on a more planetary level. He might be saving some of the people from the terror that befell on the world, be he was the one that caused it.

To give an analogy, if one day you become violently ill and near death from an unknown to you reason, and your life is save by some person, you would regard this person as your savior. But if you where to find out that the reason you got sick was because the same person put poison in your food, I'm certain you would no longer think so highly of him. But the thing is, hi did save your life. If it wasn't for him, you would have died from the poison. So, he is both the poisoner and the savior. And, I guess, it's up to you to decide which outweighs the other.
 

Aazealh

そうはいかぬ
Staff member
Regarding the Moonlight BOI, I'm curious to see his next appearance. [...] I'm not sure if it's only the changing of the drawing style, but to me it look like he has grown quite a bit.
Yes, it also seemed so to me the last time we saw him. Will be interesting to see if he's grown since then.

Is it possible that Griffith's intentions are benevolent? Maybe he just wants to make the greatest civilization of all time, without the ulterior motives.
Nah.

There exists a mental illness called Munchausen syndrome by proxy (MSBP). It's when a person causes another physical harm, then takes care of him and heals the harm he caused. What Femto is doing is very similar to this syndrome, albeit on a more planetary level. He might be saving some of the people from the terror that befell on the world, be he was the one that caused it.
I think it's a little more complex than that. Femto did not merge the two worlds only so the people of Falconia would see him as a hero. It's one part of it (the most obvious one), but there are other aspects as well: bringing his brethren into the world, eradicating astral creatures, creating a new and very different form of human society... I believe these all form a coherent strategy with a clear objective in mind, but that we've yet to fully ascertain.
 
I think it's a little more complex than that. Femto did not merge the two worlds only so the people of Falconia would see him as a hero. It's one part of it (the most obvious one), but there are other aspects as well: bringing his brethren into the world, eradicating astral creatures, creating a new and very different form of human society... I believe these all form a coherent strategy with a clear objective in mind, but that we've yet to fully ascertain.
Oh, absolutely. I deliberately oversimplified Femto's actions to make a point that if we ignore some major aspects of what he's done, we could be fooled to think that his current actions are virtues. I still think that point still holds.

Just saying Femto did these things is an oversimplification, since it omits God Hand and Idea of Evil among other things.
 
Is it possible that Griffith's intentions are benevolent? Maybe he just wants to make the greatest civilization of all time, without the ulterior motives.
is it a thing that I also think more or less, I mean, without taking anything away from the fact that Griffith is a monster, are we really sure that humanity could survive in such a world without Falconia? I think it is good to remember that without the Griffith kingdom there would have been the Ganishuka kingdom, are we sure it would have been better for humanity?
ps I often read the forum and I wrote a couple of times a year ago, greetings to all!
 

Aazealh

そうはいかぬ
Staff member
are we really sure that humanity could survive in such a world without Falconia?
As far as we know it survived without it a thousand years ago. More importantly, you're seemingly ignoring that Femto was the one who merged the worlds together. This is what we were just talking about with BerserkPrime... You can hardly commend him for saving people from a situation he deliberately caused.

I think it is good to remember that without the Griffith kingdom there would have been the Ganishuka kingdom, are we sure it would have been better for humanity?
Ganishka was an apostle, a pawn of the God Hand whose main purpose was to be used by Femto to bring about Fantasia.
 
As far as we know it survived without it a thousand years ago. More importantly, you're seemingly ignoring that Femto was the one who merged the worlds together. This is what we were just talking about with BerserkPrime... You can hardly commend him for saving people from a situation he deliberately caused.

Ganishka was an apostle, a pawn of the God Hand whose main purpose was to be used by Femto to bring about Fantasia.
I understand your answer, certain that the world had lived millennia before Griffith, but there was no fusion of worlds, and it is also true that the cause of the fusion of the worlds is griffith, but then? Do you think it is possible for the world to go back to before the worlds merged?

ok, Ganishka was an apostle but if we admit that the whole flow of human history has been manipulated by the God Hand to reach this situation, what do you expect Guts to do? Even assuming that he manages to defeat Grittith, then what do you expect it to happen? that the fusion of the worlds will retreat and that everything will return as before?
 

Aazealh

そうはいかぬ
Staff member
I understand your answer, certain that the world had lived millennia before Griffith, but there was no fusion of worlds
The corporeal and astral worlds were once mingled together like they are now, according to what the great gurus told Guts and the group.

Do you think it is possible for the world to go back to before the worlds merged?
It's possible for the two worlds to be apart again, yes. However I don't expect it to happen until maybe the epilogue of the series.

Ganishka was an apostle but if we admit that the whole flow of human history has been manipulated by the God Hand to reach this situation, what do you expect Guts to do? Even assuming that he manages to defeat Grittith, then what do you expect it to happen? that the fusion of the worlds will retreat and that everything will return as before?
You're asking me to predict the end of the series for you? That's a bit of a tall order.
 
The corporeal and astral worlds were once mingled together like they are now, according to what the great gurus told Guts and the group.



It's possible for the two worlds to be apart again, yes. However I don't expect it to happen until maybe the epilogue of the series.



You're asking me to predict the end of the series for you? That's a bit of a tall order.
you're probably right, I just want to say that it's a story too twisted to expect a linear ending
 
Is it possible that Griffith's intentions are benevolent? Maybe he just wants to make the greatest civilization of all time, without the ulterior motives.
His entire track record points towards that goal. In the eyes of the human race he's ending global conflict and bringing about a new societey free of racism, class strife and fear of death. How will his people react of they knew the price of this blood stained utopia? Only time will tell... :femto:
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Episode translation is up, courtesy of Puella: https://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?threads/episode-358-dawn-of-the-empire.15731/

A few fantastic lines in here worthy of discussion that we didn't have before the podcast:

Griffith: In 5 to 10 years, if we manage to survive and prosper in this world, the standing army composed of the soldiers and mercenary of the current royal family and the nobles will be exorbitantly shorthanded. We need the power of the people… we must have an army made up of a large number of the people.
I didn't actually think about this line at first, but yeah it's kind of crazy that the military is currently composed exclusively of nobles and mercenaries of the royal family, and they're out doing fucking raids on astral creatures, each of which they're still learning the nuances of. Expansion among the rank-and-file is a matter of course. It's just beautiful that he solves the national economic, military, security, culture crisis all in one fell swoop via indoctrination to the state.

Griffith: Not just the orphans, all the children in the country …up to 8 years, no, 10 years should be in the care of the government, and in them should be thoroughly planted the sentiments of belonging to the nation, solidarity and morality. Reading, writing and education in many other fields should be given as well.
I love that just in the span of two sentences, he's doing two things with polar opposite moral implications. First he promises the state-funded care of tens of thousands of children — education, meals, etc. Then drops in that in the process of doing that, they will be indoctrinated and bound to the will of the kingdom — says the man wearing falcon armor, in the falcon room, in the kingdom named after a falcon :griffnotevil: .

Griffith: This country, Midland, could be the only one that still keeps the form of a state on this continent, probably.
Hm, interesting they're not already calling it Falconia. But the distinction is likely that this land is still "Midland," and the empire itself will be Falconia.

Minister: Anyway, we can't just sit and wait like this. We should squeeze the budget by all means.
Minister: I'll check with some of the powerful firms.
Minister: I'll ask the Holy See for help.
Minister: It's a stroke of good luck in the midst of misfortune that our loans from other countries have actually been extinguished,
Glad to get this page translated, and instead of expressing skepticism as I initially thought, they're really rallying behind Griffith and his grand plan. He planted the vision in their heads, and they're eager to scrape together what the can to make this vision happen, despite the obvious obstacles. Now that's a politician.

Sonia: I'm going far away! Don't follow me!
Mule: …She's really going.
I smell a reunion coming soon! :isidro::schierke:
 
Last edited:

Scorpio

Courtesy of Grail's doodling.
Having now read through the translation and seeing Griffith carefully explain his long term plans and the methodology for achieving them, I have to say that I don't think the earlier idea of Griffith disappearing for an extended period while on Skellig as the Moonlight Boy is so far-fetched. It would add a bit more drama to what's going on in the realms of man (as if it needed it), but it would be an interesting twist.

Even if it's 'just' exposition meant to elucidate the reader, it certainly instills a bit of menace in how Griffith is going about his new world order; in a way that seems difficult to argue with. Foss is a smart man and clearly sees through the illusion, but unfortunately he's just as into the kool-aid as everyone else.

Really appreciated this episode- a lot of information and numerous subtleties that will inform a lot of what is to come. Exciting times!
 
Last edited:

Aazealh

そうはいかぬ
Staff member
Hm, interesting they're not already calling it Falconia. But the distinction is likely that this land is still "Midland," and the empire itself will be Falconia.
Falconia is the name of the capital city (we've known that from the beginning). But I think he only speaks of Midland to cater to his audience. For all intents and purposes, Midland is the same as the rest of the world: ravaged, and therefore a "white map" to be redrawn on. I'm curious to know what he'll call his empire though. I proposed "Falconium" earlier in the thread, but it could also simply be the Falconian Empire, or even something else entirely.

instead of expressing skepticism as I initially thought, they're really rallying behind Griffith and his grand plan. He planted the vision in their heads, and they're eager to scrape together what the can to make this vision happen, despite the obvious obstacles. Now that's a politician.
I think what's interesting here is that, as I've said before, Griffith is in actuality already the ruler. He's kind of pretending he's not, but he speaks with absolute authority and everyone bends over backwards for him. His word is their command, and in that regard the contrast with Charlotte is quite stark. Also worth noting is how familiarly he addresses her, plus the fact she's basically already chosen which wallpaper will go in the kids' room (and I don't mean the orphans).

I smell a reunion coming soon! :isidro::schierke:
Definitely. I mentioned it on the podcast and I just can't see it not happening. Promises to be very interesting: there's a possibility of her encountering the boy, meeting witches, the gurus or even Danan, witnessing a hypothetical assault by her own camp...
 
His entire track record points towards that goal. In the eyes of the human race he's ending global conflict and bringing about a new societey free of racism, class strife and fear of death. How will his people react of they knew the price of this blood stained utopia? Only time will tell... :femto:
Sounds like Femto is crafting his own Tower of Babel.
 
Top Bottom