Episode 373

And there goes my theory about Berserk armor not activating against Femto. I thought it had something to do with barytes and Femto controlling the elementals, but no, turns out Studio Gaga just likes the rapey face from 300 chapters ago. I still don't understand why they insist so much on Guts' sword or his juvenile rivalry with Griffith. Guts knew about Femto being an Absolute being that can only be hurt by those outside history and thus can't just be bisected by conventional means. Skull Knight informed him about that, did he forget? He's going to need a special technique to kill him, like when the Merrows stunned the Sea God with their chant. And the Elfhelm characters being written away into irrelevancy is so...ugh.
 

puella

Berserk forever
Like many of you I've been really dismayed by the state of the continuation. As a result I've been seriously wondering whether I should continue translating the new episodes or not.

On one hand, it's extra painful to experience this poor level of writing in Japanese, and then to have to translate it. I'd rather focus my time on worthier endeavors, like translating Miura's old interviews or even older parts of the manga.

On the other hand, you can't really judge something without looking at it fully, and I do still hope there's some precious gems left by Miura somewhere in there if you keep sifting through the dirt long enough. So I guess I'll keep sifting for as long as I can muster the courage. But at least I wish they'd keep the dialog to a minimum. :puck:
 

Rhombaad

Video Game Time Traveler
Like many of you I've been really dismayed by the state of the continuation. As a result I've been seriously wondering whether I should continue translating the new episodes or not.

On one hand, it's extra painful to experience this poor level of writing in Japanese, and then to have to translate it. I'd rather focus my time on worthier endeavors, like translating Miura's old interviews or even older parts of the manga.

On the other hand, you can't really judge something without looking at it fully, and I do still hope there's some precious gems left by Miura somewhere in there if you keep sifting through the dirt long enough. So I guess I'll keep sifting for as long as I can muster the courage. But at least I wish they'd keep the dialog to a minimum. :puck:

Thank you for persevering, Puella! I wish they’d keep the dialogue to a minimum, as well. I keep going back and forth over whether to keep reading the continuation, as well.
 

Grail

Feel the funk blast
You're definitely not alone in your feelings about the continuation, Puella - but I really feel for you. They've got all of us long-time fans in a tough position, because we all want to see where this goes, but extracting the nuggets of meaning is getting harder and harder. With your time and effort potentially spent on information that wasn't even necessarily provided by Miura... It's just unfair. :judo:
 
I think any big Berserk fan will read the continuation regardless because this isn't a tangential piece of media or something like an anime, it's the manga and the main story itself, so people saying that they are debating on whether to continue it are probably lying :iva: . But yes it's not really the Manga technically it's another person's interpretation of Miura's story based on the morsels of the story Mori has. It's a sad state that I never expected my favourite series to be in, it's a tragedy that we'll never get Miura's beautiful art and writing again.

Everyone here is a fan of Miura and with this continuation we are following his series through the lense of someone else and to a fan it's really obvious and jarring when you read it, it's not Miura anymore you can't find him in the pages at least that's the first thing I thought. Also I'm not going to lie this isn't the direction I thought the story would go in, that coupled with the terrible execution of the events is even worse, and it feels hollow and empty. Even though this direction was surprising Miura would have done it flawlessly and i would have understood it, and it would have been monumental because the potential is there. But this is just a very flat and it lacks any emotion to me, there are just too many glaring problems and bad decisions.

I had a thought once would we be so against it if Miura was alive? And if the episodes just came out like usual and the answer is yes, I'm sure everyone would think something is off because everything we became accustomed to is gone and replaced with something inferior, the writing the art the panelling everything is lesser, there is a huge gulf between the continuation and Miura's Berserk. That being said like Puela said I think it still has some value because tiny fragments of Miura is still in the dirt.
 
So many pages for so little to happen. Most of this is 'As you know....' dialogue, with characters not advancing, and the plot spinning it's wheels. Of course Casca was taken back to Falconia. Of course The Dragon Path leads to Falconia. What are we learning here? Did the Gurus not already inform the group about this? As readers we've been aware of this for years. This is really poor economy of storytelling.

The art is quite nice throughout, but everything is mostly retreading what we already know. For a slowly released series, that is really annoying.

Guts has been crying about his sword for so many episodes now. I was expecting the Beast was going to give him a pep talk to wake up, and that we'd have the Kushans to bust in on an enraged Guts, happy to see enemies he can fight. But no... He's still depressed.

It does seem like Guts is going to be pushed to do something dramatic to come back from his stuper, like embrace the armor and maybe kill someone or else use the behelit, but honestly, that feels really unearned at this point.

Speaking of Kushans... this seems random. Remnants of Ganishka's army make a little sense... but in the middle of the ocean? I hope this leads to Rickert, just to speed things up, but I'm not confident. It just feels random and poorly set up.
 
Seriously, this continuation is doing more to diminish my passion for Berserk than Miura's death ever did. Well, no, that's not true; the true Berserk as it was written by Miura is still always lurking in the back of my mind like it has been for over half my life. I just don't have any interest in seeing any new content for it because all these new episodes hurt, and they make me fear for the series' legacy.

I recently read Hayao Miyazaki's emonogatari, Shuna's Journey. Sometimes it reads like a manga that employs word balloons to convey dialogue or inner thoughts, and sometimes it reads like a children's picture book (even though it really isn't for children) with captions written in to provide context for the accompanying illustrations. And I believe that's how this continuation should have been done. Mori and Studio Gaga can't imitate Miura, so they shouldn't have bothered. An emonogatari would have been just fine; they could have easily glossed over the details like Shuna's Journey did without feeling like they'd need to emphasize anything for dramatic effect (like having Guts mope in the same damn room for three episodes), they wouldn't need to write nearly as much (or even any) dialogue, and they could still let the pictures tell the bulk of the story without needing to rely so heavily on paneling. And best of all, it could get away with being brief and to the point, which this project should always have been from the start. It might not have felt like the epic that Berserk was, but more like a fable, and I would have been fine with that. It would have been better than the current abomination we're stuck with.
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
I think it still has some value because tiny fragments of Miura is still in the dirt.
I think that’s pretty charitable, given this release.

More like dirt on his gravestone.

And so as not to end on that lovely note, just a reminder of how Berserk actually ended in Miura's lifetime, which is becoming a more satisfactory conclusion by the month:


It really puts into perspective the difference between an incomplete sculpture by a grand master and one finished by relatively inexperienced apprentices. Which is actually more whole and artistically satisfying? At best the continuation may be an exercise in gratifying our curiosity, so hopefully it doesn't leave us with more uneasy questions about itself than satisfying answers about Miura's unfinished story.
 
Seriously, this continuation is doing more to diminish my passion for Berserk than Miura's death ever did. Well, no, that's not true; the true Berserk as it was written by Miura is still always lurking in the back of my mind like it has been for over half my life. I just don't have any interest in seeing any new content for it because all these new episodes hurt, and they make me fear for the series' legacy.

Yeah. I'm really gonna dislike having the "Well, Berserk WAS really good at some point. Everything after that was absolute shit" discussion I'm gonna be having with friends, or people that I meet. Though, I'm probably just being over dramatic about it since the internet seems to have liked the continuation thus far.

I miss Miura man. :sad:
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Yeah. I'm really gonna dislike having the "Well, Berserk WAS really good at some point. Everything after that was absolute shit" discussion I'm gonna be having with friends, or people that I meet.

It goes back to the conversation we had here some months ago, my take being that the biggest mistake that was made with this project was to keep it going as "Berserk" as if nothing had changed. This is very different from Miura's Berserk, and Hakusensha should have been smarter in this regard. Simply adding a subtitle (e.g. Berserk: Legacy; Berserk: The Final Chapter; etc.) would have distanced the continuation enough from the main series that its failings wouldn't have mattered nearly as much.
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
It goes back to the conversation we had here some months ago, my take being that the biggest mistake that was made with this project was to keep it going as "Berserk" as if nothing had changed. This is very different from Miura's Berserk, and Hakusensha should have been smarter in this regard.

Even Dark Horse seemingly backed away in the Deluxe Edition, "Uhhhh... IDK about this shit!" Or they're merely treating it like what it really is, a separate entity, however that changes future publishing, if at all. I'd love to know how this is all being negotiated behind the scenes. I guess it's really just a matter of how well the continuation maintains or grows Berserk's popularity. To paraphrase Skull Knight, what we want may not be what they [the masses] want. =)

Simply adding a subtitle (e.g. Berserk: Legacy; Berserk: The Final Chapter; etc.) would have distanced the continuation enough from the main series that its failings wouldn't have mattered nearly as much.

Well, I guess if the audience sentiment is strong enough in Japan they could still do that for the volume and retroactively going forward. Precedent isn't really permanently set until that first volume release.
 
Yeah. I'm really gonna dislike having the "Well, Berserk WAS really good at some point. Everything after that was absolute shit" discussion I'm gonna be having with friends, or people that I meet. Though, I'm probably just being over dramatic about it since the internet seems to have liked the continuation thus far.

I miss Miura man. :sad:
I'm afraid it's going to be worse and Berserk is going to go the way of Game of Thrones. While most noticed the sharp decline in that show's quality after the fourth season, most were perfectly onboard with it, thinking the seemingly badly-written bits would all make sense at the end and that the writers would improve substantially by then. Then the disastrous finale dropped on everyone's heads, proved them all wrong, and ever since, no one has had a kind word to say about the show and nobody thinks it's worth getting into regardless of how good they thought it was beforehand. Game of Thrones as a whole is tainted. Heck, I wouldn't recommend anyone watch it at this point. And I can't help but fear Berserk is being forced down the same path. People like the continuation currently (or at least think they do) and are willing to overlook its flaws because they think it's all leading to something great, but if it ultimately proves that it hasn't been and the ending is just as boneless as everything else Mori has made so far, minds will change very quickly. Not just for the continuation, but for Berserk as a whole.
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Game of Thrones as a whole is tainted. Heck, I wouldn't recommend anyone watch it at this point. And I can't help but fear Berserk is being forced down the same path.

I'm not sure the comparison to Game of Thrones is all that accurate, but this is a valid concern. The truth is that Berserk is unfortunately an unfinished work, which to us as fans is a great tragedy. This isn't really up for debate, even though Hakusensha made the boneheaded choice of pretending it's still going on like nothing happened.

But Berserk itself –the real Berserk– is still great despite that. The question you're asking is whether people in the future will be willing to pick up the series knowing it has no real/satisfying end. I would like to think so, but I'm afraid there's no real way to know at this point.

I'm mostly just impressed we're still in the honeymoon phase where The Masses™ are gaslighting themselves into thinking it's great, or at the very least making excuses for it. When will the other shoe drop, I wonder.

I don't think too much should be read into perfunctory displays on social media or the like, they're mostly a means of reinforcing one's feelings of belonging to a group. It's not unlike the sort of dynamics found in sport team fandom. They're also not strongly correlated with the actual heart of the fanbase (people who just buy the volumes when they come out).

That aside, as Walter likes to say, you can't argue against hope. For those who really care and also really want it to be good at all costs, as long as there'll be another episode around the corner, they'll be able to convince themselves that it might tie it all together and prove it was worth it. In that sense, Cyrus Jong nailed it in the post just above yours. It's only once it's over that they will be able to reassess the continuation.
 
So overall I thought this was good in terms of what this continuation is and what it's trying to do. Here's what we actually got from the episode progress-wise, in my opinion.

- Schierke taking meaningful action to try and locate Casca. That's in-character and feasible within the laws of the world right?

- Tying Guts' complete failure to touch Griffith back to the Beast of Darkness struggle. Yes, they're not very good at depicting Guts' emotions right now and are basically avoiding writing him at all. But at a high level, I would expect this plot point to be resuming now, Miura or otherwise, so it's good to see they're making the narrative connection.

- The Kushan invasion clearly serves as a catalyst to tie the main cast into the story moving "east" with Griffith.

The art quality of the episode for the most part was pretty good. Compared to that first episode after publication resumed I feel it's night and day. Kurosaki (assuming he does the bulk of work) has come a long way and is still gaining confidence each release? Yes, it's unlikely there will ever be the sheer genius creativity Miura had in his conceptual thinking and panel composition ever again, but we knew that. The art is still way beyond most series out there.

There are plenty of flaws of course. I think any reader can tell the "conversation" in the first few pages serves no purpose other then to say "don't worry, we remember these characters exist". The Guts' portrayal leaves a lot to be desired and whole "everyone needs to come to be around Schierke" thing clearly only happened so they could make the Kushan's silent takeover plausible.

However when people say "Awful" I can't help but think - really? For every episode of this continuation so far what I've seen is a heartfelt attempt by the team to do their absolute best to continue their mentor's work, but with the impossible task of matching the writing of a once-in-a-generation genius.

I saw some prior points that people thought Kurosaki was "disrespecting" Miura in a tweet but from what I've seen that tweet existed solely to show how grateful they are to Mori. Have any Japanese fans interpreted it as disrespectful? I also have absolutely no reason to doubt that Mori made this decision based on the genuine belief this is what his friend would have wanted. Not one of us here can claim to know more about what Miura would've wanted than his best friend and team.

So from that perspective I hold no cynicism towards this work and for every episode, I look forward to seeing how the team grows in their ability to continue this story. I'm rooting for them. This must be incredibly painful for the team to draw every single time.

You may then ask "then well why do it?" Because they knew otherwise they'd leave the world with an eternal "What if?" "What if Studio Gaga had done a continuation? Could they have pulled it off?" We live in the timeline where we get to find out that answer, and I'm glad. And in the end if everyone agrees "this wasn't a good way to end Berserk" - so be it. Miura's legacy will be eternal regardless of how good this continuation turns out to be. But at least we'll have an answer.
 
I think you guys are reading the new chapters wrong. The fine details and life that Miura's hand granted to the pages is gone. Expecting the same will lead to nothing but disappointment.

You should read them like this:

-Guts is at his lowest point
-Kushan arrive

And appreciate some alright art (which has at least getting better admittedly). Rinse and repeat until we see the ending.
 
I think you guys are reading the new chapters wrong. The fine details and life that Miura's hand granted to the pages is gone. Expecting the same will lead to nothing but disappointment.

You should read them like this:

-Guts is at his lowest point
-Kushan arrive

And appreciate some alright art (which has at least getting better admittedly). Rinse and repeat until we see the ending.
Of course, how could i be so foolish! It's my fault for reading a manga like it is a manga! I really need to be a better consumer.
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Schierke taking meaningful action to try and locate Casca. That's in-character and feasible within the laws of the world right?

Remembering Casca's existence and trying to locate her seems like it would be in character for Schierke, sure. However the way it's portrayed and explained is not convincing as far as the magical framework of the series goes (I go over it briefly here). There are several mistakes in the scene, and beyond that is the question of whether Schierke could track someone's Od halfway across the world in such a manner while the Great Gurus doze off.

As you noted yourself, her explanation about gathering people's consciousness feels like a transparent excuse for the attack and not something with any real basis in the rules of magic as established. In short, I don't think Miura would have done things like that. I also don't think a fancy ritual was necessary to figure out where Griffith headed back to, as previously noted in the thread.

Tying Guts' complete failure to touch Griffith back to the Beast of Darkness struggle. Yes, they're not very good at depicting Guts' emotions right now and are basically avoiding writing him at all. But at a high level, I would expect this plot point to be resuming now, Miura or otherwise, so it's good to see they're making the narrative connection.

Showing that the Beast of Darkness exists and factors in the equation is good, yes. But what's more important is getting the interactions right, which really isn't the case here. I don't think there's value in just checking a box whenever a core element of the story shows up, as if featuring it at all was an achievement. What matters is for the scenes to be meaningful and consistent, and for the characters to develop, which doesn't happen here as you mention yourself. The beast is reduced to a caricature and even the dialogue they paraphrase from volume 26 isn't quite right (e.g. ゆだねよ).

The Kushan invasion clearly serves as a catalyst to tie the main cast into the story moving "east" with Griffith.

Ah yes, the great Kushan adventure everyone has been waiting for. Forget Casca and Falconia, we're going east! Do you think they'll just sail the other way around to globe to get there? :iva: Sorry, I'm kidding a bit, but personally I'm more guarded about what this will amount to. We'll see!

The art quality of the episode for the most part was pretty good. Compared to that first episode after publication resumed I feel it's night and day. Kurosaki (assuming he does the bulk of work) has come a long way and is still gaining confidence each release? Yes, it's unlikely there will ever be the sheer genius creativity Miura had in his conceptual thinking and panel composition ever again, but we knew that. The art is still way beyond most series out there.

Actually, for what it's worth, I thought it was quite bad for this episode compared to the previous one. But that's subjective I guess. Still, I don't think the art is "better than most series" unless we're scraping the bottom of the barrel. It's very detailed, for sure, as a remnant of Miura's art style. But that doesn't automatically make it good. This is art course 101 stuff.

Anyway, speaking for myself, the art isn't what I'm concerned about at all. I have no expectations in that regard, but by extension it's also not something that, by itself, can bring me any satisfaction. There's a lot of nice fan art of Berserk out there, including some nicer than this. I can't speak for others, but it's the story elements from Miura that I personally care about from this endeavor.

For every episode of this continuation so far what I've seen is a heartfelt attempt by the team to do their absolute best to continue their mentor's work, but with the impossible task of matching the writing of a once-in-a-generation genius.

Doing one's best isn't a substitute for doing a good job. Personally, I care about the result on the page and what it means for Berserk and Miura's legacy. And I can't say that it's good. The woman who "fixed" the Christ painting was also doing her best.

I saw some prior points that people thought Kurosaki was "disrespecting" Miura in a tweet but from what I've seen that tweet existed solely to show how grateful they are to Mori. Have any Japanese fans interpreted it as disrespectful?

It's a bit weird to be bringing that up 2 months later and in a different thread, but that might explain why you're missing the point. Yes, that tweet is disrespectful towards Miura, including in Japanese, and that's because it's not his tone that's the issue but the content of what he says: that "Miura was nothing more than a coauthor for Berserk". That's disrespectful in any language because it's a falsehood, and the fact it was a hyperbole and that he was just sucking up to Mori isn't an excuse at all. It's rewriting history to try and appear more legitimate, which is distasteful. That doesn't mean Kurosaki is evil at heart, but words have meaning and what people say matters.

You may then ask "then well why do it?" Because they knew otherwise they'd leave the world with an eternal "What if?" "What if Studio Gaga had done a continuation? Could they have pulled it off?" We live in the timeline where we get to find out that answer, and I'm glad. And in the end if everyone agrees "this wasn't a good way to end Berserk" - so be it. Miura's legacy will be eternal regardless of how good this continuation turns out to be. But at least we'll have an answer.

I mean, to each their own, but I get no satisfaction from getting the answer "no" to the question "would this do Berserk justice?" I would have taken Mori at this word had he said that he didn't feel it would meet Miura's standards for the series, and preferred to go for another less risky format. Choices were made and it wasn't just "do I reveal what I know or not?"

As for what consequences it will have on Miura's legacy, that's an open question. To say nothing negative can possibly come out of this project would be delusional and has already been proven wrong as far as I'm concerned. This is really more a matter of what someone is personally willing to accept and overlook. Clearly it doesn't bother you... Good for you! But as you can see, that's not everyone's case.

I think you guys are reading the new chapters wrong. The fine details and life that Miura's hand granted to the pages is gone. Expecting the same will lead to nothing but disappointment.

You should read them like this:

-Guts is at his lowest point
-Kushan arrive

I get the point you're trying to make (and which I've myself made many times since the project was announced), but this is a discussion thread dedicated to this specific episode, on a discussion forum dedicated to Berserk. Guts has been "at his lowest point" for 5 episodes now, so by this logic there's simply nothing to say about episode 373 save for "Kushans, I guess? :shrug:"... In which case I would direct you to my first reaction to it, where it's not clear to me whether it's worthwhile to follow the continuation like this.

It's a real take that I agree with, but any actual discussion requires looking at the details, otherwise there's nothing to say. Variations of "the art's getting better at least" and "could be worse", aside from being debatable, aren't enough to sustain a conversation.
 
I'm at a loss for words at how bad this is. It reads like a bad fan fiction that serves no purpose except filling a void between two points. Given that none of this came from Miura, I'm seriously wondering whether there's a point in following the series episodically anymore.
I completely agree with you. For me this continuation it's mutating from a bad fan fiction to a crime against Miura legacy and humanity.
I don't think any of Miura assistants are to blame for what we were feed until now.... the only people who are to blame are the editor and Mori.
The editor because he left his greed tain one of their best products and the memory of Kentarou Miura and Mori because created by 'coincidence" a twitter account some days before this continuation was launched and in the main time used the legacy of what he says that was his best friend to promote his own name hoping to sell more of his own Mangas (yes somebody prefer to call the papers were he put his ideas Mangas but I personally prefer the term "toilet paper") over sea. Let's do not forget that he released a statement before this continuation started, and that as we all can see he already went against his own words time and time again.
I'm really sorry for the people on this forum that are reading this continuation hoping to extrapolate where Miura was headed with the story, because none of what was depicted until now would have happened with Miura in the driving seat....
 
Top Bottom