Episode 377

[Gambler]

Honestly at this point I think even fan fiction would've done a better job, or at least remembered the basic details of the world building.

The saddest part: they arguably know some points about the ending, but they are moving the plot with pure fanfiction, to not risk doing anything with characters like Guts or the Gurus

We are already in the final battle and those characters basically did nothing since Elfhelm

So I wonder what are getting now, swords swinging, Charlie Chaplin dialogues, and then the manga is over?

Now theyre discarding Rakshas... well, its better than pretending he didnt exist and Guts will finally do something, even if it is Charlie Chaplin style

 

[Aazealh]

We are already in the final battle

I wouldn't be so sure about that. I think this is just a prelude.

 

[jackson_hurley]

At this point, Im not even sure Inwould have prefered a detailed written version of the continuation. It would imo still be an incomprehensible mess considering how little Mori's memories remembers...

I'll keep following for the sake of it anyway. Morbid curiosity here.

 

[Vitris]

At this point, Im not even sure Inwould have prefered a detailed written version of the continuation. It would imo still be an incomprehensible mess considering how little Mori's memories remembers...

The problem isn't only Mori struggling to remember (though that's a huge problem); he knows a very outdated version of the story, and he never really paid attention to what Miura had changed over the years.
Had Mori written a summary with the preface that he didn't know how Miura would've changed the story, things would've been smoother.

 

[went]

In a story like Berserk where details are so important, it's clear that Mori only knows the surface of the story. I don't know how many more years of this torture can go on, but Mori only knows the ending, but that's superficial, so it's clear that he made the rest up (i.e. he knows which characters will die and live in the end, but looking at his interviews I can't be sure).

 

[Beelzebud]

Know what? That's the continuation episode that I feel the better while "reading"(can a figures book be read?).

Obviously not because it's better than others, neither it's worser, I just didn't feel sad, or frustrated, angry, or anything else. This is a mere shadow of what Berserk IS (and to be forever to me), now that things are advancing, in Mori's way but still, I can see hints of what we maybe might see under Miura-sensei hands, and what Mori probably know about the plot until now(I believe he really know some things, but got a little pressured by SG and his own sense of honoring his friend work).

I know what I'm seeing now, will be saw by our seniors here too, and I believe that things will get 'closed' in a way at each plot ending. Like:

• After Casca's kidnaping Guts lost his way and don't know what to do know that he can't hurt Griffith in what he believe it's his own peak
• Somehow, at some point, Guts crosses path with Rickert and Silat. (I believe we might get a in-between chapter like the Sea God before this)
• Somehow Silat gets Kushan remnants. Obviously not a complete empire but maybe More didn't know a number and guess the maximum
• At some point Rakshas sneak into Silat troops for some reason(I'm guessing it'll be just a inner destruction

This is what I can see, and I guess everything would take at least 15 episodes to deliver this under a normal pace, discarding the possibility of the in-between chapter.

Maybe you guys can see more possible bullet points, and I think in the future we might(or not) have enough to create a dedicated thread as it evolves(or not).

What I know is that I'll consume everything about berserk, and will continue to be in this forum even if just for read your conversations

 

[Aazealh]

The issue isn't whether Mori knows some things about the story though, because that's a given. It's whether he knows enough for this endeavor to make sense in its current form... which isn't the case.

Somehow Silat gets Kushan remnants. Obviously not a complete empire but maybe More didn't know a number and guess the maximum

I don't think Kentarou Miura would have done that.

Somehow, at some point, Guts crosses path with Rickert and Silat. (I believe we might get a in-between chapter like the Sea God before this)

This was already obvious in 2015.

At some point Rakshas sneak into Silat troops for some reason

Same as above.

 

[Beelzebud]

The issue isn't whether Mori knows some things about the story though, because that's a given. It's whether he knows enough for this endeavor to make sense in its current form... which isn't the case.

I can't disagree with facts.

I don't think Kentarou Miura would have done that.

Ah yeah, didn't meant to address what Miura would or wouldn't have done, I'm absolutely a fan but not the expert to do so, just saying that following the continuation we(fans, forum members and absolutely you) will be able to create a timeline linking plot points in the story that probably would have happened under Miura. That's just one example with the little we have so far.

Like,

This was already obvious in 2015.

Yeah that's obvious, but it is too obvious that it would not have happened the way we're seeing, but we can ignore the "how" and just think of it as a "timeline node" in the story that will inevitably lead us to unknown territory that Mori knows and we don't.


Then I think that will be the same as having the so called "book" that everyone wants just with Miura notes + what he told others, and just speculate how these points could've been connected.
To me that is what this continuation ultimately is, I can discard almost everything and just try to point out some events that seem inevitable while looking back from the end(of the story, saga or chapter).

And I'm for sure not the expert you Aaz, Walter and Griffith are, so it would be a pleasure to sometime read that type of analysis in the future(don't think we have enough now) from you guys.

 

[Aazealh]

didn't meant to address what Miura would or wouldn't have done [...} just saying that following the continuation we will be able to create a timeline linking plot points in the story that probably would have happened under Miura.

Well except that if Miura wouldn't have done that, one of those "plot points" is already wrong. That was my point.

Note that I agree with you in principle, and in fact I was probably the first to suggest that we might be able to reverse engineer the Continuation to surmise the core elements Miura actually thought of. However, given the direction the project has taken, identifying what's legit might turn out to be quite difficult.

Then I think that will be the same as having the so called "book" that everyone wants just with Miura notes + what he told others, and just speculate how these points could've been connected.

Except here we have to infer a lot of things, versus being told straight up. It actually makes a big difference, especially since Mori has said repeatedly that they're changing things because what they think they know "doesn't make sense" to them.

 

[Beelzebud]

However, given the direction the project has taken, identifying what's legit might turn out to be quite difficult.

A task only the masters of the Educational Test of Berserk Knowledge can possible accomplish.

I was probably the first to suggest that we might be able to reverse engineer the Continuation to surmise the core elements Miura actually thought of

Didn't doubt it, so, nice you though the same.

Except here we have to infer a lot of things, versus being told straight up. It actually makes a big difference, especially since Mori has said repeatedly that they're changing things because what they think they know "doesn't make sense" to them.

Indeed, but I believe that when the continuation comes to the point they are closing things it may be easier to infer such things, we possibly have around 75% of the story done by Miura, so looking at 1/4 of the way and then, at least, the finishing point there will be clearer possibilities of the missing path.

I didn't remember well of Mori interviews, did he really say "changing" things or that they are "making up" completely new things? The second seem more to be the case given what we're seeing. Not that his words is to be trust 100%, just curious.

 

[Aazealh]

Indeed, but I believe that when the continuation comes to the point they are closing things it may be easier to infer such things, we possibly have around 75% of the story done by Miura, so looking at 1/4 of the way and then, at least, the finishing point there will be clearer possibilities of the missing path.

That is a very optimistic outlook that I can't say that I share unfortunately.

I didn't remember well of Mori interviews, did he really say "changing" things or that they are "making up" completely new things? The second seem more to be the case given what we're seeing. Not that his words is to be trust 100%, just curious.

Well if you're asking for my opinion, it's pretty much both.

 

[ApostleBob]

Having now read the 'translations' I can't believe how little is conveyed in so many pages... When I saw that council meeting I thought that surely we are getting political details like we did in Vrittanis. But no... Apparently it's mostly just Silat humbly asking for control over an entire Empire's army after a council had a racist melt down about him even being there. How could they not know he was Bakiraka until now? The Emperor even calls him Royalty. Royalty of what exactly if not the Bakiraka clan...

And the Northern Clan guy seems like a puppet or spy or something from Griffith since he's also the carrier of Rakshas. My head-canon is they sent him in there to sow dissent regarding Silat as he's the most capable leader, and when that failed Rakshas burst out to kill the council. We'll see if we get a straight answer on any of this.

 

[TheItCrow]

And the Northern Clan guy seems like a puppet or spy or something from Griffith since he's also the carrier of Rakshas. My head-canon is they sent him in there to sow dissent regarding Silat as he's the most capable leader, and when that failed Rakshas burst out to kill the council. We'll see if we get a straight answer on any of this.

But why would he even care? It's not like these Kushans pose a threat to him, and neither would Silat. But alas, this whole place shouldn't even exist, so...

 

[ApostleBob]

But why would he even care? It's not like these Kushans pose a threat to him, and neither would Silat. But alas, this whole place shouldn't even exist, so...

I'm playing within the new flawed bounds that the Mori continuation is giving us. It is what it is. If I wanted to squint at it to have it make sense, I'd say:

A) Griffith has always enjoyed strategy and subterfuge rather than bulldozing his enemies. Infiltration and assassinating leaders seems in line with this.
B) If he can defeat their leaders without genociding the population he can incorporate them into Falconia as a vassal state, which fits his benevolent propaganda persona.
C) Killing or discrediting Silat is worthwhile as he is one of the few who knows Griffith's true nature.

But really, I think it's just clunky political drama inserted that won't have clever plot impacts.

 

[Ithier]

I'm playing within the new flawed bounds that the Mori continuation is giving us. It is what it is. If I wanted to squint and make sense of it I'd say:

A) Griffith has always enjoyed strategy and subterfuge rather than bulldozing his enemies. Infiltration and assassinating leaders seems in line with this.
B) If he can defeat their leaders without genociding the population he can incorporate them into Falconia as a vassal state, which fits his benevolent propaganda persona.
C) Killing or discrediting Silat is worthwhile as he is one of the few who knows Griffith's true nature.

But really, I think it's just clunky political drama inserted that won't have clever plot impacts.

The simpler answer is that they wanted to tie up the bigoted Kushan type in a character that would have a Rakshas Xenomorph burst out of them anyway putting the Bakiraka issue on ice. Rakshas actually puppeteering him seems a little too silly to me considering he already burst out of him uncharacteristically.

 

[Aazealh]

Royalty of what exactly if not the Bakiraka clan...

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, Silat is the head of his clan, but he's never referred to as "royalty" in the series. That's something they just made up without thinking.

The simpler answer is that they wanted to tie up the bigoted Kushan type in a character that would have a Rakshas Xenomorph burst out of them anyway putting the Bakiraka issue on ice. Rakshas actually puppeteering him seems a little too silly to me considering he already burst out of him uncharacteristically.

Yeah, the construction of the scene seems pretty clear to me. Two things needed to be done: find an excuse as to why the Kushan empire somehow still exists & start the hostilities with a preemptive attack from Griffith's side. This council was cooked up to serve both needs.

Speaking of which, I didn't want to make my big review post longer than it already was, but a better scene wouldn't have had the "mean guy" be the victim, but an inconspicuous bystander or even the "emperor" himself instead. They would have been arguing until suddenly the monster burst out, instantly rendering their squabble meaningless. The fact they used the one guy with an adversarial position to Silat just lessens the scene. But who cares at this point.

 

[ApostleBob]

The simpler answer is that they wanted to tie up the bigoted Kushan type in a character that would have a Rakshas Xenomorph burst out of them anyway putting the Bakiraka issue on ice. Rakshas actually puppeteering him seems a little too silly to me considering he already burst out of him uncharacteristically.

Could be. It just seems convenient that the very guy that's making a big issue out of Silat is the same guy carrying around Rakshas inside him. Seems like he was a deliberate plant for the situation for some strategy of Griffith.

But if we want to be meta, and say it's all just random things happening to wrap up plot holes and give neat visuals, that could be true as well.

 

[Walter]

The Kurultai were introduced as blood bags so the apostles can tear through some bodies that aren't main characters and for all of that to generate some gravity when Silat ultimately takes the reigns.

What's funny about this circumstance is that it feels like a retro-engineered solution for the discrepancy they introduced back in 374 when it appeared Silat was already in charge of the Kushan. But in the end, he'll be back where he started, after they've paved a way for him to be able to take charge.

 

[ApostleBob]

Speaking of which, I didn't want to make my big review post longer than it already was, but a better scene wouldn't have had the "mean guy" be the victim, but an inconspicuous bystander or even the "emperor" himself instead. They would have been arguing until suddenly the monster burst out, instantly rendering their squabble meaningless. The fact they used the one guy with an adversarial position to Silat just lessens the scene. But who cares at this point.

I completely agree with this point. That would even carry over some conflict of some still distrusting the Bakiraka, but that's effectively gone now.

It would even make the size of the Emperor play into the fact that he's eating for two :)

 

[Odeon]

after the thing finishes im sure mori will reveal all he knows in interviews. Then, using that we can use panels from the continuation and make a solid written book with illustrations that tries to piece together what miura had in mind. In fact, perhaps some of the users here who are very knowledgable about the work can take a look at that idea, I won't pretend that I am the best man for the job. Volume 41/ deluxe 14 ends with the last of miura's work, so there is no need to buy anything from the continuation if you don't want to. you could have up to that and this concept and leave behind whatever was conjured up

 

[TheItCrow]

after the thing finishes im sure mori will reveal all he knows in interviews.

I say that is very dependant on the outcome of the continuation. If it fails at even the casual reader, I'd argue he will "downplay" and maybe even hide some things he knew, as to relieve the team of any more responsibility. If it stays "successful", I say he'll be more inclined to give out any summaries or details he had. Though on second thought, this could also be reversed... either way: I wouldn't be so sure on him giving out this information anymore.

From his latest interviews, I've found myself to believe that his biggest concern is not Miura's legacy, but to cover his and the team's ass.

 

[Walter]

after the thing finishes im sure mori will reveal all he knows in interviews

That would be great for fans, but I really don't think we’ll see anything like a comprehensive list of all Mori knew going into this. Then we could definitively reveal what was real and what was artificial, which would devalue the work that Studio Gaga is doing to make this feel like a direct continuation. It would render any divergence from a strict, bullet-pointed list as unofficial (which it is...), and I just don't get the impression that they’d do that to themselves.

 

[Odeon]

That would be great for fans, but I really don't think we’ll see anything like a comprehensive list of all Mori knew going into this. Then we could definitively reveal what was real and what was artificial, which would devalue the work that Studio Gaga is doing to make this feel like a direct continuation. It would render any divergence from a strict, bullet-pointed list as unofficial (which it is...), and I just don't get the impression that they’d do that to themselves.

isnt mori just sticking to purely those bullet points? he seems very afraid of improvisation to me

 

[TheItCrow]

isnt mori just sticking to purely those bullet points? he seems very afraid of improvisation to me

You should read up on the latest interviews.

As @puella put it:

It just confirmed that he [Mori] is not a man of his word. At first he said he and the team wouldn't change anything to what Miura had told them, and that Miura hadn't changed his plans for more than 30 years.

Now he's saying they've modified the story very liberally and that Miura would change many things even just with a single episode. Which is normal of course! Miura was exceptional and unique as a mangaka and an individual, so his thoughts and inspirations can't be guessed or extrapolated by anybody.

So unfortunately, no.

 

[Walter]

isnt mori just sticking to purely those bullet points? he seems very afraid of improvisation to me

The continuation may have started with that solemn promise, but we are far from those days, now. Remember how we started with bizarrely scant dialogue, implying they weren’t going to make things up, and now we’re getting pages (of useless, vapid blabbing).

Given all the discrepancies and stilted character sidelining that’s happened just in the past 5 episodes, I find it hard to believe anyone could think we’re still on track. And if so, where do the bullets end and the made up shit begin? Welcome to the party pal!

I was about to post the thread to the latest Mori interview but someone beat me to it. By Mori’s own admission we’re at the tea-leaf-reading phase of his memories of Berserk.