They just magically got their magic back.I forgot that I said this back when 374 came out. Well, now I got my answer!
Episode 380
- Thread starter Aazealh
- Start date
The team flicks their MAGIC On / Off switch back and forth as the plot dictates. Same way they'll just bring back the Elfhelm inhabitants when they're needed. Watch this space.I forgot that I said this back when 374 came out. Well, now I got my answer!
While the young magicians being able to cast magic (again) contradicts what the Continuation had established not long ago, the bigger issue is that it's not how magic works in Berserk... They've pretty much completely changed the rules of the world as Miura had defined them. Simply put: it's not even the same magic anymore. It doesn't bode well for the future.
I think calling it magic is a bit of an exaggeration, because that implies a system. But it’s really just the one spell over and over.
BTW, am I misremembering, or were the Four Kings actually in two places at once? In the palace (Farnese) and out in the streets (student magic users).
BTW, am I misremembering, or were the Four Kings actually in two places at once? In the palace (Farnese) and out in the streets (student magic users).
It's either that, or the mages are "amplifying" Farnese's spell. Regardless, it's not conveyed well.
Why all the hate? Guts felt completely powerless after using his sword to hit Griffith and finding out he wasn't able to. Being able to slash things with his sword was the only thing he ever relied on completely. His sword was the amalgamation of his confidence. That was shattered. Once he could not trust his sword and having lost Casca again to Griffith, he fell into depression. This is completely plausible in the arc of Guts. I don't understand why all the hate, really.
Here, why don't you read some of these posts: Episode 367 / Episode 368 / Episode 369 / Episode 370 / Episode 371 / Episode 373 / Episode 374 / Episode 375 / Episode 376 / Episode 377 / Episode 378 / Episode 379 / Episode 380
They might help you understand a little. Although in truth if you can't tell why the Continuation isn't faithful to how Miura had established Guts' character, there isn't much that can be done for you.
Thank you for listing all the posts! I'll read them again and more thoroughly. Though it is ok to have a dissenting opinion on this, right? To me, and I don't mean this as an offense to anyone, Guts feeling overwhelmed and powerless after years and years of struggling only to find that the only thing he could ever rely on failed him, is not only believable but also relatable. He's tired. He, who's been rescuing his friends all along, will be rescued by them.
We're not in the business of policing people's opinions, but to be clear, you won't find much sympathy for your perspective on this forum. You might want to find another community if criticism of the Continuation is hard for you to understand or tolerate.
Furthermore, questioning reactions that have already been explicited over 8 pages of a thread (not to mention the other episode threads) is bad form and will not be allowed repeatedly. It never makes for worthwhile discussions.
No offense taken, but you're just repeating the Continuation's rationale here, without considering whether it actually fits Guts' character as it had been established by Kentarou Miura (it does not). You're also blatantly ignoring the Continuation's myriad other problems, starting with the fact Guts isn't really getting any character development (or much screen time).
Anyway, as I said above, let's not argue about it. Please focus your commentary on the episodes' contents, and not on what others think. Thanks!
Sure, I have seen this kind of plots several times in other stories, but it is not Miura's style in Berserk. I feel it is too surface-level compared to how Miura wrote Berserk and it even disregards previous character development. This is one of the reasons why I am convinced that the Continuation is not managing Guts' character well.
I personally think Guts' reactions here could have been plausible if slowly built up to, but him being so easily shattered in what seems to be a single event seems ridiculous to me. Why would he completely break now of all times and not at the eclipse? I feel like the idea of Guts eventually growing somewhat suicidal may have been a part of Miura's plan at some point if he truly was repeatedly broken by Griffith like this. Maybe if every other member of his group was picked off one by one, then it might have made sense depening on Miura's execution of it. But him just losing the will to keep fighting? Just like that? That isn't faithful to his character even a little bit.
If anything he'd sooner "kill himself" by continuing to fight Griffith until it kills him, as he did after the Eclipse. Even if it was hopeless. I'd sooner expect Skull Knight to reveal some form of theory he has on how to kill a member of the Godhand. But not this. This is ridiculous.
If anything he'd sooner "kill himself" by continuing to fight Griffith until it kills him, as he did after the Eclipse. Even if it was hopeless. I'd sooner expect Skull Knight to reveal some form of theory he has on how to kill a member of the Godhand. But not this. This is ridiculous.
There's no conceivable way Guts would be broken in this scenario, no matter what you attribute this state to:
1. "Guts' sword failed him": Why would this break him exactly? Not being able to harm Griffith is nothing new to him at that point - he'd already tried and failed miserably in the Black Swordsman Arc. He should know by now, from his experiences and from Skull Knight, that Griffith can't be challenged in a straightforward way as swinging a sword at him.
2. "He lost Casca": So what? He's been through worse - in the Conviction Arc, Casca was lost too, and she was a defenseless, branded, and broken. He'd had no idea where she was in the world, besides a hint from Rickert on where she may be. And people wanted her dead. And he was alone on top. Now, however, she's restored and able to take care of herself (Guts would say so himself I'm sure) and they know where she is (it's safe for them to assume she'd be in Falconia) and she wasn't in immediate danger of being killed (since Griffith would have done it already if he wanted her dead - from Guts' pov since he doesn't know about the child's protection). And he has companions and allies around him too. Given all that, why would Guts collapse and become the pathetic husk he is portrayed as in this trainwreck of a "Continuation"?
This is not even mentioning that he should be in relatively good spirits by now. Despite a few unfortunate circumstances, Guts is in as good a place as he's ever been - Casca's been restored after a long and arduous journey. It's not a small victory, but a whopper of an accomplishment. He should be in better spirits than this - so the argument that he's tired and reached his breaking point is nonsense.
If people want to defend the Continuation, they'd have to argue better than this, but that's never going to happen. It seems that whatever garbage you throw out in the world, there will be someone out there who will like it
1. "Guts' sword failed him": Why would this break him exactly? Not being able to harm Griffith is nothing new to him at that point - he'd already tried and failed miserably in the Black Swordsman Arc. He should know by now, from his experiences and from Skull Knight, that Griffith can't be challenged in a straightforward way as swinging a sword at him.
2. "He lost Casca": So what? He's been through worse - in the Conviction Arc, Casca was lost too, and she was a defenseless, branded, and broken. He'd had no idea where she was in the world, besides a hint from Rickert on where she may be. And people wanted her dead. And he was alone on top. Now, however, she's restored and able to take care of herself (Guts would say so himself I'm sure) and they know where she is (it's safe for them to assume she'd be in Falconia) and she wasn't in immediate danger of being killed (since Griffith would have done it already if he wanted her dead - from Guts' pov since he doesn't know about the child's protection). And he has companions and allies around him too. Given all that, why would Guts collapse and become the pathetic husk he is portrayed as in this trainwreck of a "Continuation"?
This is not even mentioning that he should be in relatively good spirits by now. Despite a few unfortunate circumstances, Guts is in as good a place as he's ever been - Casca's been restored after a long and arduous journey. It's not a small victory, but a whopper of an accomplishment. He should be in better spirits than this - so the argument that he's tired and reached his breaking point is nonsense.
If people want to defend the Continuation, they'd have to argue better than this, but that's never going to happen. It seems that whatever garbage you throw out in the world, there will be someone out there who will like it
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I think that's a bit hasty. It's not INCONCEIVABLE for Guts to be broken. The problem is the scenario that we've been presented by the continuation is heavily abbreviated. It lacks the development and details that would have made the resulting Guts state more convincing.
Not period, sure. Maybe later down the line, with a last pit of despair before he rises to the story's conclusion. But in this part of the story, in this context, or for those reasons (because "his sword failed him" or because Casca was taken)? I really doubt it. But you may be right. Miura may have portrayed it in a way that works. The Continuation's execution is lacking for sure.
This is the exact problem I expected, even before they announced the continuation:
You know, reflecting further on these discussions and the points many have raised, particularly regarding the impact on Miura's legacy... I have to admit, it's becoming harder to dismiss those concerns outright.
Initially, like many, I held onto the hope that having any continuation, guided by someone close to Miura, would be preferable to nothing. I still respect the immense difficulty of the task Mori and Studio Gaga undertook, and the desire to provide closure is understandable.
However, the more I analyze the direction the continuation has taken – especially considering the examples Aazealth has kindly listed and fleshed out in his many contributions (my heartfelt thanks), like the handling of the Elfhelm arc, the introduction of seemingly new plot points while established ones felt underdeveloped, the shifts in character portrayal, and the inconsistencies surrounding how much was truly known versus interpreted.. the more I worry about the cumulative effect.
Miura's legacy isn't just about the final destination of the plot; it's deeply rooted in the journey like the meticulous world-building, the incredibly nuanced character development, the thematic depth explored over decades, the unique pacing, and his unmistakable artistic voice. When the continuation feels rushed, or simplifies complex characters, or introduces elements that create narrative dissonance, there's a real risk it dilutes or even overshadows the brilliance of what Miura himself painstakingly built.
It leads me to also admit if the alternative that many have also mentioned – perhaps publishing Miura's remaining notes and Mori's recollections as a separate companion piece or illustrated summary, clearly distinct from the main manga – might have ultimately done more to preserve the integrity of Miura's original work, even if it left us without a fully 'completed' narrative in the traditional sense.
Initially, like many, I held onto the hope that having any continuation, guided by someone close to Miura, would be preferable to nothing. I still respect the immense difficulty of the task Mori and Studio Gaga undertook, and the desire to provide closure is understandable.
However, the more I analyze the direction the continuation has taken – especially considering the examples Aazealth has kindly listed and fleshed out in his many contributions (my heartfelt thanks), like the handling of the Elfhelm arc, the introduction of seemingly new plot points while established ones felt underdeveloped, the shifts in character portrayal, and the inconsistencies surrounding how much was truly known versus interpreted.. the more I worry about the cumulative effect.
Miura's legacy isn't just about the final destination of the plot; it's deeply rooted in the journey like the meticulous world-building, the incredibly nuanced character development, the thematic depth explored over decades, the unique pacing, and his unmistakable artistic voice. When the continuation feels rushed, or simplifies complex characters, or introduces elements that create narrative dissonance, there's a real risk it dilutes or even overshadows the brilliance of what Miura himself painstakingly built.
It leads me to also admit if the alternative that many have also mentioned – perhaps publishing Miura's remaining notes and Mori's recollections as a separate companion piece or illustrated summary, clearly distinct from the main manga – might have ultimately done more to preserve the integrity of Miura's original work, even if it left us without a fully 'completed' narrative in the traditional sense.
his sword didnt fail him against griffith before. griffith just pushed him away or he stopped his sword strike when he saw griffith holding casca in the hill of swords fight. he actually got to swing against griffith at elfhelm but it just went straight through him.
His sword didn't "fail him" here either. This idea in itself, that Guts would blame the Dragon Slayer for not being able to damage Griffith, is ridiculous because that's not how he thinks. He'd rather consider that he failed to protect Casca (which should be what he cares about). Plus he's not an idiot and would recognize that Griffith's supernatural powers simply allowed him to deflect his attacks. Yet that wouldn't make it less of a failure.
Honestly, there's no way around it: his portrayal by the Continuation team is just unfaithful and reveals an extreme misconception about his character.
No, it's Zodd who blocked his strike on the Hill of Swords (and Griffith wasn't holding Casca). Please make sure you remember what happens before commenting. It doesn't take long to refresh one's memory if necessary.
I doubt Guts would be broken by Griffith. Last time Guts felt powerless and in despair was when he attacked Casca. I think it is more plausible that the reason he would be in despair now is because something he himself would have done, not because of repeated attacks by Griffith.
Regardless of how you personally feel about Guts' present torment, the excessive amount of time he’s been left in this state is telling of an information gap. Instead of advancing his narrative, the Continuation stretches out the known beat—Guts being distraught over losing Casca and suspecting the boy as another of Griffith's ploys—as long as inhumanly possible until the next major moment that truly involves him, and is known to Mori, actually arrives. Who knows when that will be?
And I want to clarify that I am aware the Continuation is not executing the story beat as Guts being upset about Casca and his son in any way, shape or form. I'm just thinking about how Miura would've done it.
Guts is essentially in stasis; no meaningful character development is occurring. It feels as if Miura intended for him to be doing something else at this point in the story.
I toyed with the idea before, and so did the SkullKast, that Guts might be separated from the group right now, a decision (Guts' own decision) that could be driven by a major incident involving the Berserk's armor.
Several narrative cues leading up to, and within—Elfhelm could support this observation:
1. Skull Knight's our guy, but he's a harbinger of calamity and is now at the island, possibly in expectation of something (He did park his horse!). His ominous warning about converging causality foreshadows a major development on the island, and it finally came on Episode 364.
2. Numerous hints during the sea journey suggest that Guts’ inner beast is poised to emerge whenever one of his companions is hurt or lost, and that next time Schierke would be powerless to stop it.
2.1. So Many Developments About the Armor—All Right Before the Boy’s Arrival
We could have seen more of Hanarr, but that didn’t happen—at least, not yet. Gedring discusses the armor with Guts, but the conversation doesn’t delve deep enough. All of this feels like it’s building toward an inevitable breaking point.
Before these threads can be satisfyingly resolved—before solutions are found—it would have been crucial to see the worst-case scenario play out. Miura teased Guts losing control for so long that he *had* to deliver eventually, and I can’t imagine it happening after the island, too much of a distraction when clearly the final stretch was commencing.
3. Other beats at sea where Guts ponders setting out alone to confront Griffith once Casca is healed (He even has one of these moments right before seeing the boy in Episode 363!) He was going to have to act upon it at some point, and hey, what better moment than now? Nothing more to lose.
4. Finally, Elfhelm—a refuge of magicians and elven entities beyond the scope of the God of the Abyss—couldn't be left standing. Some of us were expecting a War Demon raid on Skellig, but it's so much simpler for Griffith to have bided his time and exploit the transformation as a perfect infiltration point (Pure speculation. Just rationalizing how the Fall of Elfhelm was seemingly telegraphed).
Put all these elements together, and it's likely that Guts was set up to fail at attacking Griffith (As we saw). But it wouldn't have ended there—the Beast would have taken over, unleashing catastrophe.
Based on how the Continuation recycles elements we've seen in the past (See the trolls as of recent), I just can't buy the idea of the gnawers tearing the island apart. It's fanfiction.
Here's my take: Guts wreaks havoc in paradise, and it topples over.
Though my idea is also fanfiction, lately I haven't been able to shake the mental image of Guts, burning with raw fury, senselessly attacking the cherry blossom tree with the Dragonslayer, cutting it down with unstoppable rage, yet unaware. Griffith is out of reach, he popped in and out with Casca in arms, Guts' wrath would be uncontained and it would've been directed towards something... And it would showcase his rage to the reader without having him kill a main character, that would be unsatisfying.
... He just swings and swings and no one could stop him. And if we accept that Gaiseric's lady was buried beneath that tree, and that her connection to it somehow allowed Danan to exist, then the tree's physical destruction would explain her disappearance in a way that makes a lot more sense than the Continuation's explanation (None at all).
Guts would have been absolutely torn up inside after all of this, yes. More than ever. But he would've stood up, and go forth to try to figure this out his style and without desiring to cause his friends more hurt. He would've had a lot of learning to do: Think over Gedfring's words, find his ideal relation to the armor, tame the Beast, come to terms with the fact the boy is his Son. Once he had worked towards these goals, then the character would've been ready to regroup with the others and bring everything to a closer.
I also believe that Guts and the others exploring the mainland separately would've been a great way to flesh out the world of Fantasia even more, which is also what we were expecting in the future. It makes me wonder though, who would've been the one to find the Bakiraka hideout first?
And I want to clarify that I am aware the Continuation is not executing the story beat as Guts being upset about Casca and his son in any way, shape or form. I'm just thinking about how Miura would've done it.
Guts is essentially in stasis; no meaningful character development is occurring. It feels as if Miura intended for him to be doing something else at this point in the story.
I toyed with the idea before, and so did the SkullKast, that Guts might be separated from the group right now, a decision (Guts' own decision) that could be driven by a major incident involving the Berserk's armor.
Several narrative cues leading up to, and within—Elfhelm could support this observation:
1. Skull Knight's our guy, but he's a harbinger of calamity and is now at the island, possibly in expectation of something (He did park his horse!). His ominous warning about converging causality foreshadows a major development on the island, and it finally came on Episode 364.
2. Numerous hints during the sea journey suggest that Guts’ inner beast is poised to emerge whenever one of his companions is hurt or lost, and that next time Schierke would be powerless to stop it.
2.1. So Many Developments About the Armor—All Right Before the Boy’s Arrival
We could have seen more of Hanarr, but that didn’t happen—at least, not yet. Gedring discusses the armor with Guts, but the conversation doesn’t delve deep enough. All of this feels like it’s building toward an inevitable breaking point.
Before these threads can be satisfyingly resolved—before solutions are found—it would have been crucial to see the worst-case scenario play out. Miura teased Guts losing control for so long that he *had* to deliver eventually, and I can’t imagine it happening after the island, too much of a distraction when clearly the final stretch was commencing.
3. Other beats at sea where Guts ponders setting out alone to confront Griffith once Casca is healed (He even has one of these moments right before seeing the boy in Episode 363!) He was going to have to act upon it at some point, and hey, what better moment than now? Nothing more to lose.
4. Finally, Elfhelm—a refuge of magicians and elven entities beyond the scope of the God of the Abyss—couldn't be left standing. Some of us were expecting a War Demon raid on Skellig, but it's so much simpler for Griffith to have bided his time and exploit the transformation as a perfect infiltration point (Pure speculation. Just rationalizing how the Fall of Elfhelm was seemingly telegraphed).
Put all these elements together, and it's likely that Guts was set up to fail at attacking Griffith (As we saw). But it wouldn't have ended there—the Beast would have taken over, unleashing catastrophe.
Based on how the Continuation recycles elements we've seen in the past (See the trolls as of recent), I just can't buy the idea of the gnawers tearing the island apart. It's fanfiction.
Here's my take: Guts wreaks havoc in paradise, and it topples over.
Though my idea is also fanfiction, lately I haven't been able to shake the mental image of Guts, burning with raw fury, senselessly attacking the cherry blossom tree with the Dragonslayer, cutting it down with unstoppable rage, yet unaware. Griffith is out of reach, he popped in and out with Casca in arms, Guts' wrath would be uncontained and it would've been directed towards something... And it would showcase his rage to the reader without having him kill a main character, that would be unsatisfying.
... He just swings and swings and no one could stop him. And if we accept that Gaiseric's lady was buried beneath that tree, and that her connection to it somehow allowed Danan to exist, then the tree's physical destruction would explain her disappearance in a way that makes a lot more sense than the Continuation's explanation (None at all).
Guts would have been absolutely torn up inside after all of this, yes. More than ever. But he would've stood up, and go forth to try to figure this out his style and without desiring to cause his friends more hurt. He would've had a lot of learning to do: Think over Gedfring's words, find his ideal relation to the armor, tame the Beast, come to terms with the fact the boy is his Son. Once he had worked towards these goals, then the character would've been ready to regroup with the others and bring everything to a closer.
I also believe that Guts and the others exploring the mainland separately would've been a great way to flesh out the world of Fantasia even more, which is also what we were expecting in the future. It makes me wonder though, who would've been the one to find the Bakiraka hideout first?
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That's an awfully big tree to be cut down like that. I find the idea rather implausible.
That's right, the next possible date for a new episode is May 9. Don't hold your breath though.
I still wonder if they'll publish something like this once the continuation is finished.
They could at least publish it in the final volume.
And let everyone know they didn't interpret it correctly? I doubt it.
I still think something similar to that will happen, but it will be extremely simplified and redacted. They won't let us see everything.
As much as I'd like this published out of curiosity, I suspect that the notes are scattered and incomplete, with Mori and Gaga also relying heavily on half-remembered conversations and impressions from Miura. It's not as if Miura had any indication that his death was imminent, and so his notes would have been just reminders to himself rather than a manuscript to execute should something happen to him.
On top of that, it would only invite the comparison to what Mori and Studio Gaga invented and open it wide open for criticism even more than now. I doubt they have the incentive for either exposing how little of Miura's notes really exist, nor for showing how much they carelessly made up.