Episodes 365 & 366

To me the points noteworthy of summarizing what was most likely Miuras intent with this portion would be these
  • Femtos existence is like a storm that sucks everything into it, even the inhabitants of Elfhelm and magic users get lost in his presence
  • Casca isn't ready to remember Femto yet, but pieced together the connection of the child and Griffith
  • Guts' Dragon Slayer isn't at a stage where it can physically hurt a God Hand yet, it's not completely useless either because we saw him get one strand of Griffiths hair
  • Zodd enters through the branches of the world tree, we have to see the rest, but i assume Sonia is on her way as well with possibly more apostles
When it comes to the whole ordeal of the Dragon Slayer, i love the idea in itself with complete disregard to the visual representation of what we saw in 366. I think the inability of Guts being able to hurt Griffith would be a good reason to upgrade the Dragon Slayer, but would also heighten the impact of him hitting Griffith for the first time even more. I also always wondered why Hanarr didn't take a look at it when they were in the cave, atleast it seemed like a missed opportunity to me. Now we might know.

Regarding Casca, i think the supression of that memory makes sense for now, and can only be tackled eventually with the help of Farnese who still has to learn healing magic from Dannan.

The whole ordeal of Zodd coming in, and the final editor note does somewhat re-assure me that more is to follow, and that Zodd pre-maturely breached the tree the moment Sonia led them to the Island.

When it comes to the execution of these story ideas, i think we can all say that some of it leaves something to be desired. Regardless, i am curious to see if the next few releases will (hopefully) be a bit more exposition and dialogue heavy, although obviously there should be some action too.
 

Aazealh

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That being said, I expect things to improve as the continuation goes on. I think the art will get better, and the visual storytelling will become less clumsy. Studio Gaga may even address some of the clumsiness we’ve seen when the volume comes out. They did some minor adjustments to episode 364 when volume 41 came out, after all. We’ll just have to wait and see (feels like a new motto we all share these days).

I'm sure they'll touch things up in the volume. As for the art "getting better" over time, I think it's more complicated than people may realize. This was drawn while the team was at their maximum dedication and likely with the clearest idea of what Miura envisioned next. It's still unclear to me how things will evolve once those initial six episodes are done. There's also the fact that art styles evolve over time, and it could be a struggle for them to stick to Miura's style instead of letting their own style develop as it normally would if the project goes on for a long time. One thing that I wish they had done is to onboard a new member that's really good at panneling, but it seems it's still just the same six people (at least for those first two episodes).

It always seemed to me that, similar to Cascas split personality, Guts' also recieved a split inside his mind, causing the beast to form and take in everything Guts despises in other people aswell as himself.

Casca didn't really have a split personality. Her mind was broken and so she appeared to have mentally regressed to an almost mindless state.

And maybe I paraphrased this a bit weird but I never ment the armour overtaking his mind but the beast of hatred using the armour to do so.

Well actually it's really the armor itself that makes him lose control. His feelings (embodied by the Beast of Darkness, not of hatred) are what fuel the armor, but without the berserk's armor on, he'd be like before.

I am really excited to see if the one hair he managed to cut is just an optical emphasis of his powerlessness or if it proves to be of greater significance to Griffith.

Actually, I think what's most important for the story is whether or not it will revert to a long, black hair after being cut.

Femtos existence is like a storm that sucks everything into it, even the inhabitants of Elfhelm and magic users get lost in his presence

It's described as a maelstrom, not a storm. The word used for it in Japanese specifically refers to a tidal current. It's a water connection, as Miura tended to do for the Astral World. That aside, like I said in the chat the other day, I think it's pretty clearly a reference to Schierke's introduction in volume 22 and what she witnessed in Shet. That same phenomenon is why she had to possess a small bird to observe the scene instead of going there directly with her body of light.

Casca isn't ready to remember Femto yet, but pieced together the connection of the child and Griffith

I don't think it's possible to assume what she "remembers" or not based on what we see in these two episodes to be honest. However she did see the boy transform into Griffith in episode 364, so it's a given she understands that or will understand it.
 
It's described as a maelstrom, not a storm. The word used for it in Japanese specifically refers to a tidal current. It's a water connection, as Miura tended to do for the Astral World. That aside, like I said in the chat the other day, I think it's pretty clearly a reference to Schierke's introduction in volume 22 and what she witnessed in Shet. That same phenomenon is why she had to possess a small bird to observe the scene instead of going there directly with her body of light.
That's actually amazing! Makes much more sense, i appreciate that detail.
 
I am really excited to see if the one hair he managed to cut is just an optical emphasis of his powerlessness or if it proves to be of greater significance to Griffith. Maybe even so that he would be kind of disturbed because not even a hair should be able to be cut if he does not allow it. Kind of showing first real signs of Guts becoming somebody moving outside of the waters surface without knowing.
Which hair? That Is just how Studio Gaga is portraying the effect of the sword passing right through Griffith body
 

Rhombaad

Video Game Time Traveler
I'm sure they'll touch things up in the volume. As for the art "getting better" over time, I think it's more complicated than people may realize. This was drawn while the team was at their maximum dedication and likely with the clearest idea of what Miura envisioned next. It's still unclear to me how things will evolve once those initial six episodes are done. There's also the fact that art styles evolve over time, and it could be a struggle for them to stick to Miura's style instead of letting their own style develop as it normally would if the project goes on for a long time.

Would you prefer they stick to Miura’s style as much as they can, even if it means the quality might not improve, or would you rather they develop their own style? It could make it easier for them to depict what Mori tells them if they developed their own style. (Even if they developed their own style, I’d prefer they stick to Miura’s character designs.)

One thing that I wish they had done is to onboard a new member that's really good at panneling, but it seems it's still just the same six people (at least for those first two episodes).

They may yet. I suppose it depends on how well they can handle the upcoming episodes. The only thing preventing them from ever doing so could be the fact that the new assistant never worked with Miura. They may want to keep everything in-house, so to speak, for the duration of the project.
 

Aazealh

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Staff member
That's actually amazing! Makes much more sense, i appreciate that detail.

No problem! And one more thing in response to your thoughts:

Guts' Dragon Slayer isn't at a stage where it can physically hurt a God Hand yet, it's not completely useless either because we saw him get one strand of Griffiths hair

I'm not a big fan of that idea. Completely putting aside how it was visually executed, I tend to lean more towards a specific power that Griffith has and that could be tied to the maelstrom Schierke and Farnese witness, rather than the Dragon Slayer simply being ineffective because it hasn't been plunged into enough evil spirits yet.

Something akin to what he did in Shet with the arrows. In fact I think these episodes would have been much more effective if we had seen the same sort of *white flash* effect and then Guts' incomprehension as Griffith stands there unharmed, instead of the phasing effect we got.

I do believe Hanarr will work on the sword and "crystallize" its power either way, but I'm uncomfortable with the idea that the same sword that had enough in it to send Slan away and wound Ganishka wouldn't do anything to Griffith despite the fact he has a corporeal body. That's why I lean more towards a sort of "reality distortion field", which is also congruent with his ability to manipulate matter (which we see during the Eclipse and also on top of Ganishka).

But... the phasing effect we see on the page, in and of itself, supports your interpretation more.

Which hair? That Is just how Studio Gaga is portraying the effect of the sword passing right through Griffith body

That's also what it had looked like to me at first glance, but I do believe it's a hair.

Would you prefer they stick to Miura’s style as much as they can, even if it means the quality might not improve, or would you rather they develop their own style?

Damn man, tough one! I guess... I think they should try to stick to Miura's style. I mean, the whole point is to give his work a conclusion, so he should remain the standard they're striving for.
 

Rhombaad

Video Game Time Traveler
I thought at first that maybe he was moving so quickly, he was leaving a sort-of after-image. The single strand of hair floating by after the second strike throws that idea into doubt a bit, but I still think it’s possible.

Could it be that he’s controlling the mist around them to make it look like he’s standing right there in front of Guts, even though he’s moved behind him? He seems to be manipulating the wind a bit towards the end of the episode, which is sending some mist swirling about Guts.
 

Aazealh

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Staff member
I thought at first that maybe he was moving so quickly, he was leaving a sort-of after-image. The single strand of hair floating by after the second strike throws that idea into doubt a bit, but I still think it’s possible.

Could it be that he’s controlling the mist around them to make it look like he’s standing right there in front of Guts, even though he’s moved behind him? He seems to be manipulating the wind a bit towards the end of the episode, which is sending some mist swirling about Guts.

Yeah the scene is a little confusing unfortunately, like on the page where Guts slashes him at the wrong angle, he's in front of him and in the next panel Griffith is suddenly standing way behind him. It looks like Guts went through him, and because there's no transition it's unclear exactly what's going on (at least to me).
 
That's why I lean more towards a sort of "reality distortion field", which is also congruent with his ability to manipulate matter (which we see during the Eclipse and also on top of Ganishka).

But... the phasing effect, in and of itself, supports your interpretation more.
I agree with you... I think that Studio Gaga did a poor job at portraying Griffith ability to distort reality
 

Rhombaad

Video Game Time Traveler
Yeah the scene is a little confusing unfortunately, like on the page where Guts slashes him at the wrong angle, he's in front of him and in the next panel Griffith is suddenly standing way behind him. It looks like Guts went through him, and because there's no transition it's unclear exactly what's going on (at least to me).

Well, at least we’re on the same page. :void: It’s possible that if Miura had drawn this episode, we might not have understood Griffith’s powers (for lack of a better word) any better, either. I’ve no doubt it would’ve been drawn, laid out, etc. in a way that was more aesthetically pleasing, but it always seemed like he tried not to divulge too much of what Femto or the other God Hand members could do. That scene with the arrows comes to mind. We know they missed, but we’re left to wonder how.
 

Walter

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To me the points noteworthy of summarizing what was most likely Miuras intent with this portion would be these
Thanks for distilling the episode to these short entries! Makes it easier to discuss.

Femtos existence is like a storm that sucks everything into it, even the inhabitants of Elfhelm and magic users get lost in his presence
This isn't necessarily new, but a close-up encounter of what Schierke would have witnessed back in Shet if she had gotten too close to Griffith.

Casca isn't ready to remember Femto yet, but pieced together the connection of the child and Griffith
I didn't get the sense that Casca did much piecing of anything in these episodes. She sensed and reacted to Griffith's overwhelming presence through her brand, pretty much simultaneously when Schierke did, and she had flashbacks of traumatic moments (one of which seemed a little nonsensical to me--why the Sea God?)

Guts' Dragon Slayer isn't at a stage where it can physically hurt a God Hand yet, it's not completely useless either because we saw him get one strand of Griffiths hair
I actually read the hair thing much differently. It's all he could do was displace a single hair. It emphasizes how far off Guts was from being able to actually damage him. The look on Guts' face says it all, to me. But as to what's actually happening with Griffith in this episode...

That's why I lean more towards a sort of "reality distortion field", which is also congruent with his ability to manipulate matter (which we see during the Eclipse and also on top of Ganishka).
I agree. It would make sense to be an extension of what he did in response to Skull Knight's attack. It just... ya know... doesn't look quite as cool here.

Zodd enters through the branches of the world tree, we have to see the rest, but i assume Sonia is on her way as well with possibly more apostles
Sonia has to be on the way, or already riding Zodd, yes. The way Sonia described traveling through the world spiral tree, anyone else would get lost. And beyond the rhetoric, we see what it looks like through the dolmens back in Ep 358. It's kaleidoscopic, not a straight A to B path.
 
Something i have noticed from these two episodes is the Art style is different. I assume it was drawen by two different assistants. They both look amazing but i can tell that its not just different as in "oh this isn't Miuras drawing" obviously but yeah not sure if others paid notice to that.
 
Another thing that crossed my mind after seeing the opening pages of 365, Isma's Mother did gave her that Shell as a means of communication once something happens. That detail should re-occur (hopefully) in the upcoming episodes.
 
(one of which seemed a little nonsensical to me--why the Sea God?)
In fact, I was thinking the same thing during the reading. Why? There wasn't an event so traumatic for Casca in that battle.
Another thing that crossed my mind after seeing the opening pages of 365, Isma's Mother did gave her that Shell as a means of communication once something happens. That detail should re-occur (hopefully) in the upcoming episodes.
Oh, yes, it's true. It will be interesting to know how Isma will use that.


Anyway, a new comment by Mori about new episodes.

 

Rhombaad

Video Game Time Traveler
The page with Casca recalling traumatic memories was the first page where I said to myself, "Oh, that's not how Miura would've handled this moment at all." The memories seemed pretty random to me. My understanding is that she's going through so much trauma in that moment, that she's just randomly recalling several moments when she was Elaine, as well as the Eclipse. It wasn't handled very well, visually. The eye should be following her text with the images, but you then need to back-track to see her charm breaking.

Speaking of which, I meant to bring up Casca's charm breaking on several different occasions, but it completely slipped my mind. I though it was a cool touch to the story. It's going to add some interesting elements of danger when they return to the mainland, given what happened when two branded individuals were present at Albion. I don't think things will get that bad; I can't imagine the group constantly running from a giant ocean of specters until they get to Falconia. Hopefully, Schierke will be able to apply the drawn-on charm to Casca that she used to apply to Guts, before he started wearing the Berserk's armor. That should lessen the effects a bit, however temporarily.
 

Aazealh

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Staff member
Speaking of which, I meant to bring up Casca's charm breaking on several different occasions, but it completely slipped my mind. I though it was a cool touch to the story. It's going to add some interesting elements of danger when they return to the mainland, given what happened when two branded individuals were present at Albion. I don't think things will get that bad; I can't imagine the group constantly running from a giant ocean of specters until they get to Falconia. Hopefully, Schierke will be able to apply the drawn-on charm to Casca that she used to apply to Guts, before he started wearing the Berserk's armor. That should lessen the effects a bit, however temporarily.

She could get another talisman before they leave the island. She might also need a "proper" armor and more importantly some new tricks so she can hold her own against what's waiting for them.
 
Speaking of which, I meant to bring up Casca's charm breaking on several different occasions, but it completely slipped my mind.
Another thing I kinda want to add about her talisman breaking is (In my opinion) how underwhelming it felt in the episode. I don't know if it was because it happened in a few panels of a single page, or because it looked like they sketched it last moment (They really need to redraw it for the Tankōbon). I mean of course they can get another one, they are at the perfect place to get one, but I still expected a bit more for something she had for so long.
 

Rhombaad

Video Game Time Traveler
She could get another talisman before they leave the island. She might also need a "proper" armor and more importantly some new tricks so she can hold her own against what's waiting for them.

Haha, duh. They’re on an island full of magic users and artisans. I’m not sure why I thought with Flora being gone they’d just have to go back to being temporarily shielded again. I think I need another cup of coffee. :ganishka:

Another thing I kinda want to add about her talisman breaking is (In my opinion) how underwhelming it felt in the episode. I don't know if it was because it happened in a few panels of a single page, or because it looked like they sketched it last moment (They really need to redraw it for the Tankōbon).

I hope they fix that page and the one where Guts is madly swinging the DS around. Both are very messy, even if the latter is by design.
 

Walter

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Based on the preview text, which implies more "darkness" is coming, we can presume that means more apostles, with Zodd at the front of the line.

Initially, I assumed this was a quick evacuation maneuver. But I don't think it's quite that obvious. Because not only does Griffith clearly not need his old bodyguard (never needed him in the first place, other than for PR, I guess), we also know that he can travel through the World Spiral Tree on his own. So then, why even need Zodd if Griffith simply needs to escape?

Here are just a few scenarios that are running through my head:

Scenario 1—Rescue Mission
Zodd and the apostles, led by Sonia, are here because their leader went missing mysteriously. Sonia tracked him telepathically and gathered the major apostles, using the World Spiral Tree to cross the distance between them. They're going to do a quick, violent, and effective evacuation of Griffith.

Scenario 2—Coordinated Incursion
Griffith and the apostles had planned for this moment, because Griffith was able to predict the boy's transformation. They're not here to evacuate Griffith, but because he had stowed away through the boy, and his now powerful presence can disrupt the island's defenses, allowing the apostles to find their way to the island. They're here to wreck shit.

Coloring these expectations are the limitations that we know we're working within. Namely, we know that there are only four episodes remaining in the Chapter of Elf Island. That's half the length of the assault on Flora's Mansion. If the apostles were really here to wreck the island and kill all inhabitants, would such a major event go down in just four episodes (particularly given that through this new team, 365-366 flew by)? I don't think so.

What other scenarios do you think there are?
 
Based on the preview text, which implies more "darkness" is coming, we can presume that means more apostles, with Zodd at the front of the line.
I might be wrong cause I haven't yet checked if we have a clear translation of that preview text, but could that preview be talking only about Zodd? Like Griffith being the first dose of darkness on the island and Zodd coming is the "More Darkness" it's talking about?

Just making sure cause I personally don't think they have enough episodes for a full invasion of some sort, and dropping in a ton more apostles just to take them away almost immediately would feel kind of pointless.
 
Coloring these expectations are the limitations that we know we're working within. Namely, we know that there are only four episodes remaining in the Chapter of Elf Island. That's half the length of the assault on Flora's Mansion. If the apostles were really here to wreck the island and kill all inhabitants, would such a major event go down in just four episodes (particularly given that through this new team, 365-366 flew by)? I don't think so.

What other scenarios do you think there are?
I think whatever happens, the events are going to fly by regardless. The apostles may come through and wreck havoc in just a few episodes
 
Based on the preview text, which implies more "darkness" is coming, we can presume that means more apostles, with Zodd at the front of the line.

Initially, I assumed this was a quick evacuation maneuver. But I don't think it's quite that obvious. Because not only does Griffith clearly not need his old bodyguard (never needed him in the first place, other than for PR, I guess), we also know that he can travel through the World Spiral Tree on his own. So then, why even need Zodd if Griffith simply needs to escape?

Here are just a few scenarios that are running through my head:

Scenario 1—Rescue Mission
Zodd and the apostles, led by Sonia, are here because their leader went missing mysteriously. Sonia tracked him telepathically and gathered the major apostles, using the World Spiral Tree to cross the distance between them. They're going to do a quick, violent, and effective evacuation of Griffith.

Scenario 2—Coordinated Incursion
Griffith and the apostles had planned for this moment, because Griffith was able to predict the boy's transformation. They're not here to evacuate Griffith, but because he had stowed away through the boy, and his now powerful presence can disrupt the island's defenses, allowing the apostles to find their way to the island. They're here to wreck shit.

Coloring these expectations are the limitations that we know we're working within. Namely, we know that there are only four episodes remaining in the Chapter of Elf Island. That's half the length of the assault on Flora's Mansion. If the apostles were really here to wreck the island and kill all inhabitants, would such a major event go down in just four episodes (particularly given that through this new team, 365-366 flew by)? I don't think so.

What other scenarios do you think there are?
This entire scenario reminds me of Floras line regarding Causality and it being a spiral.

We know that in the past Elfhelm already withstood an attack by what was most likely Gaiserics Kingdom.

Now i imagine something similar might happen, and it makes me think back to the wicker men storage that we saw when we got introduced to Volvaba.

I always assumed the target would be the spirit tree located in Elfhelm to fully maximize the power of the world spiral tree. And that Griffith landing there would lead to such an agenda.

There is also Skull Knight's line regarding Causality converging.

There being only room for 4 episodes is what worries me the most. This just seems way too short, unless they produce episodes that span around 23-25 pages each.
 
I don't know if the loss of Casca's charm is going to have that large of an effect on the story. It wasn't going to last forever and its warding abilities were going to wear off sooner or later. I think the more important thing is that it's not only another demonstration of the sheer magnitude of Griffith's power (and the God Hand in general), but also leaves a strong implication on what will happen to Guts in this fight when the charm in his armor, which has other, more important functions, also inevitably breaks (if it hasn't already).

Anyway, I think these episodes demonstrate that while Miura's assistants are doing an admirable job trying to emulate his art style, that really isn't enough, because at the end of the day, what exactly is Miura's style? I couldn't tell you. Miura knew enough about the rules of art to know how and when to break them, which gave him the freedom to functionally change art styles on the fly to convey a proper mood and atmosphere. He would oftentimes use rougher and more sketchy lines to illustrate speed, motion, rage, and instability, darken everything in shadows to imply more quiet dread, or even make the imagery borderline surreal if he really wanted to make things look shaky. And he would even switch styles on the same page, making the shifts pop out even more. The artists are honestly trying, but they feel very restrained in comparison. They just don't go to the same lengths Miura did. In particular, the shots of Guts getting all Beast-eyed feel like they're being arbitrarily thrown in for variety's sake, rather than conveying any increased levels of savagery in him (never mind how they look like bastardizations of the times when he would be depicted in silhouette with just that one blank white eye glaring at you).
 
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Based on the preview text, which implies more "darkness" is coming, we can presume that means more apostles, with Zodd at the front of the line.

Initially, I assumed this was a quick evacuation maneuver. But I don't think it's quite that obvious. Because not only does Griffith clearly not need his old bodyguard (never needed him in the first place, other than for PR, I guess), we also know that he can travel through the World Spiral Tree on his own. So then, why even need Zodd if Griffith simply needs to escape?

What other scenarios do you think there are?

To be honest, 4 episodes seem to me a little few to start a fight. I don't know what to think about the ending of this arc and the way could conclude.

The only thing I can think is someone by the Guts' side has a so strong power (Danann?) to surprise Griffth that orders retreat from elfs island. But I don't believe be a convincing idea.
 
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