Friendly advice about P2P networks

[Walter]

Just a point of information I won't go into any further, and don't ask me to: Torrentspy.com has been compromised. If you are downloading from them, stop now. Seriously.

 

[Sparnage]

Thanks for the heads up.

Edit from Torrentspy page;

Hello Friends of TorrentSpy,

This message is to inform you about recent efforts by the motion picture studios to shut down TorrentSpy. As you may know, in February 2006 the major movie studios and their Washington lobby, the Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA), filed a lawsuit against TorrentSpy and other search engines.

We guess that hiring hackers and turning a blind eye to identity theft is not enough for the movie studios and the MPAA. Now they want to know who you are, what you search for, and what you download. In short, it is the view of the movie studios that websites should not allow anonymous use and your activity on the Internet - anywhere - is their business.

The really scarry thing is that if we lose this court battle, the movie studios will be able to go after any search engine or website and force them to collect data about YOU. It is not an exaggeration to say that losing this fight is a nail in the Internet's coffin.

We have spent the last year challenging their relentless campaign against the 1st Amendment and personal privacy laws Worldwide. We have succeeded in delaying the court order to turn on logs while we appeal it. TorrentSpy will not create logs of what you do on the site without your consent.

While we use Google Analytics for website statistics, TorrentSpy servers have never tracked your IP Address, the searches you make, or how you use the site. We are dedicated to your privacy and we are fighting for your rights!

That's pretty fucked.

 

[Aazealh]

That's pretty fucked.

Well these organizations (MPAA, RIAA, etc) have been taking action and doing this sort of thing for a long time, even back then with Napster. Today it's with torrentspy.com, the last time it was suprnova.org, the list goes on.

I can't really blame them for it, they're protecting their interests and they're mostly in their right to do so. It's just too bad they're targeting individual users and resorting to disputable methods, but then again that's what all these sites/companies' hypocritical excuse for existing relies on: they just provide a free file sharing service out of love for freedom (and not ads revenue of course) and it's not their fault if the evil users that they can't possibly monitor do illegal things.

 

[SaiyajinNoOuji]

Well these organizations (MPAA, RIAA, etc) have been taking action and doing this sort of thing for a long time, even back then with Napster. Today it's with torrentspy.com, the last time it was suprnova.org, the list goes on.

I can't really blame them for it, they're protecting their interests and they're mostly in their right to do so. It's just too bad they're targeting individual users and resorting to disputable methods, but then again that's what all these sites/companies' hypocritical excuse for existing relies on: they just provide a free file sharing service out of love for freedom (and not ads revenue of course) and it's not their fault if the evil users that they can't possibly monitor do illegal things.

Like you said, its their right to protect their products. Thats the name of the game when you deal with P2P. You take your chances!1 Can't cry about it if you get caught.

 

[Waychel]

I think that they have a right to protect their intellectual property, but just where do their rights begin and ours end? I don't think that what I am searching for or downloading online should be the MPAA's business. Where the copyright infringement is taking place is with the illegal distribution of these movies, so the MPAA should be tracking down the people behind the IPs actually uploading that type of material. Those are the people who should be subpoenaed and pursued on an individual basis. Targeting an entire P2P network, or demanding logs of the activity of all P2P users, is a despicable way of seeking to protect intellectual property rights when it involves trampling all over the privacy rights of innocent Internet users. I understand that privacy is still a relatively new concept in law, but in order for the Internet to exist, some level of privacy and anonymity must be allowed. I really disagree with how these companies are handling the file sharing issue.

 

[Aazealh]

Well to the best of my knowledge they do try to shut down distributors, but since it doesn't work all that well they do their best to terrorize downloaders in parallel. Fighting on all fronts basically.

 

[Waychel]

Well to the best of my knowledge they do try to shut down distributors, but since it doesn't work all that well they do their best to terrorize downloaders in parallel. Fighting on all fronts basically.

TBH I dunno what legal grounds they have to go after downloaders... unless the downloaders are also simultaneously uploading while downloading (like with some Torrents). Either way, it really bothers me that the MPAA and RIAA can go after an entire website like this while making such broad demands. If they were subpoenaing the site for information on specific users that they had evidence/pending action against, I would be more sympathetic. Sometimes I wonder if we should re-think our current definition of "cyber terrorism."

 

[Aazealh]

it really bothers me that the MPAA and RIAA can go after an entire website like this while making such broad demands.

I don't know, I mean the website in question is basically dedicated to infringing copyright and everybody knows it... Don't mistake me, I don't agree with the MPAA, RIAA and all their friends when it comes to their dreams of controlling everything transiting on the Internet, but here we're looking at people who are illegally exchanging their property in broad daylight, and far from shying away of revealing it they practically brag about their accomplishments.

 

[chaoscontrol]

Doesn't really bother me anyway, in the Netherlands you're allowed to download anything you like. It's the uploading of copyrighted stuff that isn't allowed.

 

[Waychel]

I don't know, I mean the website in question is basically dedicated to infringing copyright and everybody knows it... Don't mistake me, I don't agree with the MPAA, RIAA and all their friends when it comes to their dreams of controlling everything transiting on the Internet, but here we're looking at people who are illegally exchanging their property in broad daylight, and far from shying away of revealing it they practically brag about their accomplishments.

Oh... sorry, I dunno much about sites like Torrent Spy TBH. I just assumed that it was a P2P type of site where people could create Torrents for just about anything. If it is pretty much just another version of Pirate Bay though, I can understand why the RIAA or MPAA might target it specifically.

Just my opinion, but I believe that whenever a Torrent pops up dedicated to like, Spider-Man 3 for example, either the MPAA or RIAA should send a C&D notice to Torrent Spy, at which point the Torrent should be removed and efforts should be taken to preveny any others from popping up to replace it. IE, what YouTube is doing right now to comply with copyright holders. There needs to be some level of cooperation between the copyright holders and website owners/maintainers.

I think that keeping logs of all user activities, including searches, and making them available to the MPAA or RIAA unconditionally, is going a little too far though. TorrentSpy does have a right to collect such data if they wish and hand it over to whomever they please, but I don't believe that the MPAA or RIAA has any right to demand it from them. What business is it of the MPAA or RIAA what people are searching for on the website?

Doesn't really bother me anyway, in the Netherlands you're allowed to download anything you like. It's the uploading of copyrighted stuff that isn't allowed.

That is more or less the way that it is here in the US to my knowledge. My understanding is that Torrents function by having users upload while they simultaneously download, so that could be what they are catching people on so far as distribution is concerned. I don't know all the details about how Torrents work though, so take whatever I say with a grain of salt...

 

[Aazealh]

I just assumed that it was a P2P type of site where people could create Torrents for just about anything. If it is pretty much just another version of Pirate Bay though, I can understand why the RIAA or MPAA might target it specifically.

Well there aren't many, if any, torrent websites that aren't another version of "The Pirate Bay". Peer to Peer file sharing is hardly used for anything other than illegal distribution of copyrighted material.

Just my opinion, but I believe that whenever a Torrent pops up dedicated to like, Spider-Man 3 for example, either the MPAA or RIAA should send a C&D notice to Torrent Spy, at which point the Torrent should be removed and efforts should be taken to preveny any others from popping up to replace it. IE, what YouTube is doing right now to comply with copyright holders. There needs to be some level of cooperation between the copyright holders and website owners/maintainers.

But Torrentspy doesn't host anything, it only lists torrents, you see. They just can't do anything about it! The owners of such sites obviously don't want to cooperate with copyright holders since their purpose is to distribute copyrighted material. They're just taking advantage of the lack of efficient legislation applying to new technologies.

I think that keeping logs of all user activities, including searches, and making them available to the MPAA or RIAA unconditionally, is going a little too far though. TorrentSpy does have a right to collect such data if they wish and hand it over to whomever they please, but I don't believe that the MPAA or RIAA has any right to demand it from them.

Yeah obviously, but it's not like they'll get what they demand anyway. I imagine they ask as much as they can in the hopes they can get something, anything. I don't think anybody disagrees that they shouldn't watch over the Internet like Big Brother.

That is more or less the way that it is here in the US to my knowledge. My understanding is that Torrents function by having users upload while they simultaneously download, so that could be what they are catching people on so far as distribution is concerned.

Yeah, you usually upload when you download with BitTorrent. I'm not sure it's unpunished to just download anymore though, in fact I doubt it.

 

[Waychel]

Well there aren't many, if any, torrent websites that aren't another version of "The Pirate Bay". Peer to Peer file sharing is hardly used for anything other than illegal distribution of copyrighted material.

Ah... I play a few Korean online games and the way I get patches for them are Torrents. The companies officially release the patches for foreign players as Torrents (due to lag issues between the servers of different countries) and that is how I was initially introduced to this kind of P2P. I didn't realize until now that so many of these different Torrent sites exist solely to distribute copyrighted material without permission, like Hollywood movies or music. The situation reminds me of Napster and KaZaA with the way you describe it.

But Torrentspy doesn't host anything, it only lists torrents, you see. They just can't do anything about it! The owners of such sites obviously don't want to cooperate with copyright holders since their purpose is to distribute copyrighted material. They're just taking advantage of the lack of efficient legislation applying to new technologies.

I've forgotten where I read it exactly, but I recall either law or precedent where the act of simply linking to copyrighted material hosted elsewhere makes one equally liable for its distribution. If I were to link to a Warez/cracked installer for Adobe PhotoShop on my website for example, I could be held liable for distributing copyrighted material, even though I wasn't the one actually hosting the file. I'd have to look it up though...

Where I would assume Torrent websites skirt the line is that some considerations are given to websites that allow user-posted content. Webmasters cannot be expected to monitor all the activities of their users, which is why laws exist protecting them from litigation so long as they comply with C&D to remove such content. You're probably right that this ultimately comes down to the Torrent sites taking advantage of the lack of proper legislation regarding this kind of technology. When a site exists solely for users to post copyrighted content (such as with sites like Pirate Bay), it makes you question where the line should be drawn... which I assume is why Torrent Spy is being taken to court now.

Yeah obviously, but it's not like they'll get what they demand anyway. I imagine they ask as much as they can in the hopes they can get something, anything. I don't think anybody disagrees that they shouldn't watch over the Internet like Big Brother.

TBH I have downloaded the occasional fansub or scanlation using Torrents though... so maybe I am just a little bit bias/hypocritical regarding this subject. LOL

 

[Aazealh]

Ah... I play a few Korean online games and the way I get patches for them are Torrents. The companies officially release the patches for foreign players as Torrents (due to lag issues between the servers of different countries) and that is how I was initially introduced to this kind of P2P. I didn't realize until now that so many of these different Torrent sites exist solely to distribute copyrighted material without permission, like Hollywood movies or music. The situation reminds me of Napster and KaZaA with the way you describe it.

The situation is exactly like the one with KaZaA, eDonkey and any other P2P system. The few times it's used legally it's either to distribute patches in online games like you mentioned or to share Open Source and similar projects.

You're probably right that this ultimately comes down to the Torrent sites taking advantage of the lack of proper legislation regarding this kind of technology. When a site exists solely for users to post copyrighted content (such as with sites like Pirate Bay), it makes you question where the line should be drawn... which I assume is why Torrent Spy is being taken to court now.

Yes, but TorrentSpy is one of many and would be replaced in a matters of days were it to disappear.

TBH I have downloaded the occasional fansub or scanlation using Torrents though... so maybe I am just a little bit bias/hypocritical regarding this subject. LOL

We're all guilty of that kind of thing in one way or another, but I like to think it doesn't prevent me from being objective about it. I don't think you're very biased, it's true the MPAA, RIAA, etc shouldn't be allowed to turn the Internet into a giant spyware. On the other hand they do have a right to defend their property. We can only hope that an evolution in distributing means (cheap legal downloading) will bring an end to this problem.