Game of Thrones TV [spoilers]

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Griffith said:
I don't know, the show doesn't seem to be following the books' or even its own rules on this. Isn't it literally murky water anyway? =)

All I know is Jorah sure isn't being cautious. I assume he's confident he's not putting his object of devotion in danger, suggesting, he thinks, it takes direct exposure to the infected area, but again, it allegedly passed from the material of a doll, so not something to fool around with.

I just meant that there's a particular thing about Dany (and someone else, who I'm not sure if it's a spoiler to mention yet...) bloodline that make them pretty exceptional. It's "the blood of the dragon" after all,
so a little thing like Greyscale probably isn't a real threat (is this something worth spoilering...?). Not dissimilar to how Valyrian steel is effective against the wights because of magic dragon stuff.
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Walter said:
I just meant that there's a particular thing about Dany (and someone else, who I'm not sure if it's a spoiler to mention yet...) bloodline that make them pretty exceptional. It's "the blood of the dragon" after all,
so a little thing like Greyscale probably isn't a real threat (is this something worth spoilering...?). Not dissimilar to how Valyrian steel is effective against the wights because of magic dragon stuff.

Ah, yeah, she's likely immune, but does Jorah know that for a fact? Plus, he's just getting his cooties all over her and her friends. =) Also, I don't think someone else is going to be on the show (and Jorah's plot has been combined with a related character). I don't know what that says about their future in the books, since they regularly cut, combine, or kill off all sorts of seemingly important characters that are still alive and active there. I guess it depends on how much you believe Martin is telling them/how much they care (there already seems to be some disagreement about the Night's King). Like, do the producers hold up a flash card with a name and he shakes his head if it's a dead end? "Oh, them? I wouldn't worry about them." Some stone hearted fans are still hoping for the big reveal we didn't get last season in the finale, "Mother's Mercy." =)
 
Last night's episode was ... fun.

Dany -
so she's back with the Dothrakis ... will that be a bad thing or would she gain more allies ... that's to be seen ... but if it's a different island or wherever they are how are Jorah and Daario supposed to get to her.

Daario to stranger - "Did you see a dragon fly by?"
Stranger - "Not sure, it was quick.
Jorah - "Which way did they go? TELLLL MEEEEE (in Christian Bale's Batman voice)".

Wouldn't it be quicker and effective for them to hop on those 2 chained dragons to track Drogon :troll:?

Glad to see Varys back. Dany's plot was not particularly interesting to me but Tyrion coming into her life made her story go from meh to yeah (!) ... but now, they're separated. Goddamnit.

Cersie -
she confessed to the High Sparrow but she didn't tell him about Jaime and I was wondering why he let her go without that confession, presuming that was the secret Little Finger told him that got her locked up in the first place. When she's walking and she breaks, crying, was a big moment for her. The King wasn't there to greet her though ... hmmm was that a tamed zombified Mountain?!

Jaimie -
gotta feel for him! His first official father-daughter moment and a bittersweet end to it. Will he turn back and fight but it's just the 2 of them ... or will he go to Kings Landing and come back with full force? If he turned around and came back, met the King, they could go after Elliara. Cersei's going to be pissed :magni:.

Stannis -
I felt bad for what happens to him in this episode more than anyone else :sad:. I guess it comes full circle with Brienne killing him.

Jon -
Hooray. The final stab coming from Oly was heartbreaking. With Melisandre coming back and being there coincidentally, is she going to bring him back somehow? With Jon gone, I wonder how or who's going to be there to control any Night's Watch vs Wildlings conflicts. Last thing they need is a war among themselves when the Whitewalkers are comin for em.

IncantatioN said:
Not reading the books as yet, so my opinion of Jon Snow is based out of the TV series and I can't stand the guy. Is he hinted anywhere in the books to actually being
the Lord Of Light
?
Walter said:
Since you presumably haven't read the books for fear of being spoiled, do you actually want an answer...?

After last night's episode, I remembered these posts ... and yeah, I think I'm ready to know whats going on with his character. Spoil me as you please.

Arya -
brutal stabbing. She paid such a high price for not letting go of Arya and being no one ... but she got some revenge I guess. I mean, she has so many people on her kill list that I think if she knew this would happen, she wouldn't pay the price for a semi-small fry.

Sansa -
I hope she breaks a leg or something ... or better - Bolton knows she escaped, finds her and well, does what he does best :ubik:

Next season, Hodor?

Where's the show at in terms of the books published?
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
IncantatioN said:
After last night's episode, I remembered these posts ... and yeah, I think I'm ready to know whats going on with his character. Spoil me as you please.

Book spoilers ahoy:

You could read hundreds of posts on the subject just by googling for Jon Snow's heritage, but to summarize, it's implied as early as book 1 that
he's a Targaryen, the son of Lyanna (Stark) and Rhaegar (Targaryen). I'm not sure if the TV show goes much into Rhaegar, but he was pretty much the biggest badass in the series. Their union itself is part of the series' title (Song of Ice and Fire), with the Starks being of the North, whose mantra is "Winter is Coming"; and Targaryens whose house mantra is "fire and blood." Because of how special he is, and how Targaryens traditionally inter-breed, I've always felt it was likely that the union of Jon and Dany would bring about the Lord of Light. And I'm also not so certain that's necessarily a good thing.

This is a pretty key thing to understand if you read the books, since it colors a lot of Jon's character interactions, particularly those with Aemon. If he weren't blind, he would probably have immediately recognized the Targaryen resemblance, even with Jon's dark hair. I think he intuited it before he died.
 

Kompozinaut

Sylph Sword
IncantatioN said:
Where's the show at in terms of the books published?

We have arrived (essentially). There are some bits and pieces that I don't know if the show will incorporate or not, but otherwise, all the major events from the books have been played out with last night's episode.
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Well, it was a pretty lousy season overall, though it contained a couple of series highlights; too bad after it seemed like they figured it out last year.

Walter said:
Book spoilers ahoy:

You could read hundreds of posts on the subject just by googling for Jon Snow's heritage, but to summarize, it's implied as early as book 1 that
he's a Targaryen, the son of Lyanna (Stark) and Rhaegar (Targaryen). I'm not sure if the TV show goes much into Rhaegar, but he was pretty much the biggest badass in the series. Their union itself is part of the series' title (Song of Ice and Fire), with the Starks being of the North, whose mantra is "Winter is Coming"; and Targaryens whose house mantra is "fire and blood." Because of how special he is, and how Targaryens traditionally inter-breed, I've always felt it was likely that the union of Jon and Dany would bring about the Lord of Light. And I'm also not so certain that's necessarily a good thing.

This is a pretty key thing to understand if you read the books, since it colors a lot of Jon's character interactions, particularly those with Aemon. If he weren't blind, he would probably have immediately recognized the Targaryen resemblance, even with Jon's dark hair. I think he intuited it before he died.

Also book-centric:
Do you mean like R'hllor or the traditional Azor Ahai promised prince thing? I don't like the idea of waiting for another kid, let alone for them to to grow up. Hopefully, the "dragon being three-headed" thing means Dany, Aegon, and Jon. Also, isn't it possible that Dany is barren?

Delta Phi said:
We have arrived (essentially). There are some bits and pieces that I don't know if the show will incorporate or not, but otherwise, all the major events from the books have been played out with last night's episode.

What about Kevan's fate?
 
Walter said:
Book spoilers ahoy:

You could read hundreds of posts on the subject just by googling for Jon Snow's heritage, but to summarize, it's implied as early as book 1 that
he's a Targaryen, the son of Lyanna (Stark) and Rhaegar (Targaryen). I'm not sure if the TV show goes much into Rhaegar, but he was pretty much the biggest badass in the series. Their union itself is part of the series' title (Song of Ice and Fire), with the Starks being of the North, whose mantra is "Winter is Coming"; and Targaryens whose house mantra is "fire and blood." Because of how special he is, and how Targaryens traditionally inter-breed, I've always felt it was likely that the union of Jon and Dany would bring about the Lord of Light. And I'm also not so certain that's necessarily a good thing.

This is a pretty key thing to understand if you read the books, since it colors a lot of Jon's character interactions, particularly those with Aemon. If he weren't blind, he would probably have immediately recognized the Targaryen resemblance, even with Jon's dark hair. I think he intuited it before he died.

Thanks Walter.
I wouldn't have had the slightest idea he wasn't Ed's son or that he was half Targaryen even, especially with his appearance and that Targaryen silver hair trait. With Ed and both parents dead, does anyone else know of this secret? If Aemon could've potentially recognized Jon, think there's anyone else who might recognize him too, just that they haven't come face to face yet?

Delta Phi said:
We have arrived (essentially). There are some bits and pieces that I don't know if the show will incorporate or not, but otherwise, all the major events from the books have been played out with last night's episode.

Nice. Hope there's a new book by next season cos it might suck for readers if the TV show spears ahead with spoilers before the book's out. Then again, that's bound to happen ... the show's going to end before the books are done, right?
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
IncantatioN said:
Thanks Walter.
I wouldn't have had the slightest idea he wasn't Ed's son or that he was half Targaryen even

From what I remember about the first season, when Jon leaves for the Wall and Ned is leaving for King's Landing, Ned tells him that he has something important to tell him when they next meet -- alluding to there being more to Jon than meets the eye. And then of course, they never get to meet again. Ned also ruminates on what happened with Lyanna many times throughout the first book, drawing attention to her circumstance. It's not spelled out plainly, and that's what I respect about it.

Nice. Hope there's a new book by next season cos it might suck for readers if the TV show spears ahead with spoilers before the book's out. Then again, that's bound to happen ... the show's going to end before the books are done, right?

I believe the sixth book is supposed to be done before the next season, but who knows.

I don't count myself as a fan of either the show or the books, but I am invested in seeing how they end up addressing everything that I've described, since to me, it's the only thing that hasn't been soured over the course of the series.
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Walter said:
I don't count myself as a fan of either the show or the books, but I am invested in seeing how they end up addressing everything that I've described, since to me, it's the only thing that hasn't been soured over the course of the series.

And that's why it'll turn out to be something completely different, as a last :isidro: TWIST :isidro: to cap it all off. :void:
 

Deci

Avatar by supereva01 @ DA
Any one wanna bet Mellisandre breaths life back into Jon ala Beric Dondarrion from the Brotherhood Without Banners? I figure since Lady Stoneheart is pretty much stricken absolutely it's a way they can "AHA!" fans with what the fuck exactly was the point of having that subplot in the series. "It was to set up a way to bring Jon back to life duh!" I could be wrong of course, supposedly Kit Harrington isn't signed on for next season but I feel it's pretty certain either way that's what'll happen.

Also let's hope we get to see Bran again, and in fantastic fashion.
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Well, last night's episode was already better than most of last season's, so that's a good start (they managed to reconnect to every plot thread I cared for and ignore or tie up those I didn't).
It was nice to see what surely seemed like more dreadful times with the Boltons ("Now I'm REALLY gonna torture you!") denied by Brienne for now, and for Theon Greyjoy to show a bit more of his old self by putting those sword skills to use (this guy was professionally trained since childhood, no reason he should be a cowering ninny with a sword in his hands). Speaking of rebirths, the make or break element for me though is how long they drag out Jon Snow's Stark's inevitable resurrection. I put the over/under at 3 episodes, at which point I start getting very impatient.
 
Griffith said:
Well, last night's episode was already better than most of last season's, so that's a good start (they managed to reconnect to every plot thread I cared for and ignore or tie up those I didn't).
Good pacing too. Good episode.
Curious about Bran though ... while I don't care much for Daenerys' plot.

It was nice to see what surely seemed like more dreadful times with the Boltons ("Now I'm REALLY gonna torture you!") denied by Brienne for now, and for Theon Greyjoy to show a bit more of his old self by putting those sword skills to use (this guy was professionally trained since childhood, no reason he should be a cowering ninny with a sword in his hands). Speaking of rebirths, the make or break element for me though is how long they drag out Jon Snow's Stark's inevitable resurrection. I put the over/under at 3 episodes, at which point I start getting very impatient.
The season before last for The Walking Dead, they stretched out and kind of trolled fans about the whole Glenn thing, dragging it out a couple of episodes right upto the second last episode of the season. Now that you mention about Jon, yeah I hope they don't drag it out. Curious to know why Daavos stared a little longer than usual at the blood in the snow after they moved Jon. Some of that Dothraki dialog felt like I was watching Conan The Barbarian and kinda silly. I wonder what the other 4 best things in life for a Dothraki are! Fighting in a small room with a whip ... she should be glad the fight didn't go through. Brienne bowing down and delivering her lines after the fight was pretty touching, Sansa better not screw things up.
 

Kompozinaut

Sylph Sword
Griffith said:
Speaking of rebirths, the make or break element for me though is how long they drag out Jon Snow's Stark's inevitable resurrection. I put the over/under at 3 episodes, at which point I start getting very impatient.

I almost, almost, thought they might do it this episode. At this point, it's all but confirmed to happen, but I think we'll have to go through Melisandre "finding her purpose" again before we get to the payoff. Hell, does she even know how to do that kind of ritual? She was awfully surprised when she saw Barric Dondarion.

Speaking of the red woman, so her collar keeps her young? Anyone else a little put off by this reveal? I kind of liked the idea of her being young and naive about the true workings of the Lord of Light. Now she just comes off to me as not being a very good priestess if she still can't get this stuff right at her age!

IncantatioN said:
Brienne bowing down and delivering her lines after the fight was pretty touching, Sansa better not screw things up.

I feel like for the first time since she left Winterfell, Sansa is in a safe-enough position. However, to-bad-for-you when she gets to the Wall and finds Jon dead.
 
Delta Phi said:
I almost, almost, thought they might do it this episode. At this point, it's all but confirmed to happen, but I think we'll have to go through Melisandre "finding her purpose" again before we get to the payoff. Hell, does she even know how to do that kind of ritual? She was awfully surprised when she saw Barric Dondarion.
Good point.
I watched it again last night and the other thing that struck me about Davos was his faith in her and her abilities. He's always had his doubts about her or questioned her methods. So it was a little unconvincing, then again I haven't gone back to re-watch past seasons and it's possible I'm not remembering something she may have done/ said to change his opinion.

Speaking of the red woman, so her collar keeps her young? Anyone else a little put off by this reveal? I kind of liked the idea of her being young and naive about the true workings of the Lord of Light. Now she just comes off to me as not being a very good priestess if she still can't get this stuff right at her age!
I looked her up out of curiosity and found
a picture of her in a bathtub. She isn't wearing her collar and she's shown to be her same young self. So it's a little interesting and maybe there's more going on in that scene. I think it's when Stannis' wife confronts her.

I feel like for the first time since she left Winterfell, Sansa is in a safe-enough position. However, to-bad-for-you when she gets to the Wall and finds Jon dead.
Awww man, stuck with such bad luck!
 

Oburi

All praise Grail
Griffith said:
Well, last night's episode was already better than most of last season's, so that's a good start (they managed to reconnect to every plot thread I cared for and ignore or tie up those I didn't).
It was nice to see what surely seemed like more dreadful times with the Boltons ("Now I'm REALLY gonna torture you!") denied by Brienne for now, and for Theon Greyjoy to show a bit more of his old self by putting those sword skills to use (this guy was professionally trained since childhood, no reason he should be a cowering ninny with a sword in his hands). Speaking of rebirths, the make or break element for me though is how long they drag out Jon Snow's Stark's inevitable resurrection. I put the over/under at 3 episodes, at which point I start getting very impatient.

Yea I though the opening episode was miles better than 90% of the episodes last season. From a technical standpoint also. Better pacing, unique composition, cinematography, lighting, music etc. The whole episode had a weight to it, perfectly paced. All doom and gloom. With a few exceptions from some standout moments, last season was overall pretty bland and uninspired. I tried re-watching it before the new season started and it was really difficult to get through some of those storylines again. It's such a drag. Hopefully it just turns out to be that slump season overall.

As to you're prediction
with Jon, I'm going to say it'll be even longer than that. Over half the season even. I have a gut feeling that they're going to do exactly that and drag that resurrection for as long as humanly possible for maximum payoff. They managed to go a whole season without Bran, so I wouldn't be surprised if we went most of this season without Jon (being alive at least). Plus with rumors going around about lengthy flashbacks possibly in the form of Bran's visions, I think they might pad out some episodes to put more time into Jon being lifeless. Other than that though, I think this season will be a redemption from the last. It kind of HAS to be. They clearly meandered last year and were just killing time (and characters(pointless Ser Barristan death scene)) to get to the good stuff, and considering the end is pretty much in sight at this point (the writers said that despite HBO asking for more seasons, they'd ballpark it at about a season and a half remaining, I'm guessing Soprano's style final season part 1 and 2) all that's left is the good stuff.

BTW, I thought the scene with the Sand Snakes was really surprising. I wasn't expecting them to take over through so quickly with such ruthlessness. The whole storyline with them last season bored me to tears and yet they are already quite exciting this time by starting with such a bang.
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Oburi said:
As to you're prediction
with Jon, I'm going to say it'll be even longer than that. Over half the season even. I have a gut feeling that they're going to do exactly that and drag that resurrection for as long as humanly possible for maximum payoff.

Oh, that was no prediction, just the point when it will really start to annoy me. My gut tells me the same thing and I hope we're wrong.

Oburi said:
BTW, I thought the scene with the Sand Snakes was really surprising. I wasn't expecting them to take over through so quickly with such ruthlessness. The whole storyline with them last season bored me to tears and yet they are already quite exciting this time by starting with such a bang.

It was quite shocking and ten times more entertaining than anything to do with them did last season, it just makes less than zero sense.
Why didn't the Prince execute them the first time they betrayed him, let alone treat them, particularly Oberyn's whore, like close family? Bastards and concubines are treated terribly otherwise but they were treated with dignity and respect here, yet completely lived down to the rest of the world's expectations; is the rest of the world supposed to be right? Why would they avenge Oberyn by murdering his family, including his totally innocent nephew and their blood cousin (this is worse than what he died for in the first place)? Why would they travel, in secret on a tiny boat, all the way to Westeros to needlessly do this, but not kill Jaime, Cercei, Tommen, or any other number of enemies whose loss would destabilize the Lannisters and the seat of power there? Why were the Dorne guards, save the giant one that instantly died from a single stab wound, not loyal to the Prince but to a whore? Do the people of Dorne, including the royal guard, hate peace so much that they instantly betray their ruler for not throwing away said peace over his personal losses ("Your people despise your peace and prosperity!")? This only makes sense as a naked power grab, except that's not the stated intent, and it makes no sense because nobody would follow whores and bastards over a successful and wrongly killed Prince. Also, Oberyn assured Cercei that her daughter was safe because of the nobility of his culture, one that would not condone the hurting of little girls. His brother and nephew seemed to exhibit this same attitude and corroborate this, and yet his beloved and own children completely betray that standard (I guess they don't hurt their little girls because they'll stab you in the heart). It's so bad it makes me think of bad writing that went largely unnoticed before, like why Cercei would have ever allowed the Mountain to fight and kill Oberyn when her daughter was already literally a HOSTAGE to his family. Realistically, given her concern and hatred for Tyrion because of that, she would have at least had to have considered and rationalized it somehow (or more likely call off The Mountain), but it was just ignored because it doesn't work. This is all so not credible, including the attitude and prowess of the Snakes, who act more like cartoon cutie tough girl parodies, "you selfish bitch, stealing the murder of our innocent cousin" than actual trained, disciplined and dangerous people. If it sounds like I'm really ragging on the show for this, it's because this plot is just irredeemably awful.
 

Oburi

All praise Grail
No you're definitely right about that.
It makes zero sense that they'd kill off Oberyn's own blood family. They might as well be the powerpuff girls at this point. This whole storyline was a mess since it was first introduced last season and it really bogs down the show. Here's to hoping that it doesn't overstay it's welcome or at worst, go back to being boring.
 
Oburi said:
As to you're prediction
with Jon, I'm going to say it'll be even longer than that. Over half the season even. I have a gut feeling that they're going to do exactly that and drag that resurrection for as long as humanly possible for maximum payoff.

I'm glad you were wrong!
 

Kompozinaut

Sylph Sword
Griffith said:
Why didn't the Prince execute them the first time they betrayed him, let alone treat them, particularly Oberyn's whore, like close family? Bastards and concubines are treated terribly otherwise but they were treated with dignity and respect here, yet completely lived down to the rest of the world's expectations; is the rest of the world supposed to be right?

I don't remember if they go into much detail in the last season about it, but I believe Dorne values bastards and women much more than the rest of the the Seven Kingdoms. I know that their succession isn't male dominant, it's just whoever is oldest. And whores and bastards are still considered in how the lineage plays out.

Griffith said:
Why would they avenge Oberyn by murdering his family, including his totally innocent nephew and their blood cousin (this is worse than what he died for in the first place)?

I never got very far in Dance with Dragons so I don't know how things play out past A Feast for Crows, but I remember the Sand Snakes being very pissed that Doran wouldn't crown Myrcella queen which would bring the Westeros under Dornish control at risk of starting yet another war (a way more interesting strategy than the murder we got). Basically Doran refused to do anything to avenge Oberyn, which left the Sand Snakes without any ability to act with Dorne's support. So I guess they decided to remove the stumbling block from their path.

Griffith said:
Why were the Dorne guards, save the giant one that instantly died from a single stab wound, not loyal to the Prince but to a whore? Do the people of Dorne, including the royal guard, hate peace so much that they instantly betray their ruler for not throwing away said peace over his personal losses ("Your people despise your peace and prosperity!")?

I think the general consensus was that the Dornish liked Oberyn a lot more than Doran. How exactly that translates to Oberyn's paramour is awkward, but my guess is they felt she was an acceptable proxy. To add to the complexity (which again, I can't remember if they covered in the show), Dorne is technically an independent kingdom unlike the North, Lannisport, The Eyrie, etc. If memory serves, the Targaryeans weren't able to conquer Dorne during their big conquest, and instead, it entered into the Seven Kingdoms by marriage alliances. So it naturally has more of a footing for rebellion than the other regions. All that said, I'd hazard a guess that all the guards were fed up with pacificity and sided with what's-her-name.

Of course, you shouldn't have to read the books to know what's going on in the show. Ever since the show got closer and closer to surpassing the books, the story and motivations have become increasingly inconsistent. The whole Dornish subplot (which has a lot of intrigue potential in the book) is just a fucking mess now.
 
I've been guilty of consuming the contents of this thread without providing anything back. Now that their hasn't been any new discussion for several weeks I will add in my renewed excitement for the series after watching last week's S6E07 "The Broken Man"

Series Speculation:
I'm excited to see further confirmation that the long time fan theory regarding "Clegane Bowl" is looking more likely than ever. The hound is back with the beginning of a humble religious affiliation. For the uninitiated, the speculation is that Cercei will indeed choose the Mountain as her Champion for Trial by Combat rather than stand trial, and the Septum will in turn call on the Hound to represent their side.

Riverlands speculation for the rest of season 6 and spoilers for those who haven't read any of the books:
After last season I had pretty much given up hope that we would ever see Lady Stoneheart in this show. In the book timelines it should have happened during season 4, but with Jaimie and Brienne finally getting to their Riverlands story arc (The promo for Episode 8 shows that Brienne will be there), its appearing ever more likely. To further support this theory we have the Brotherhood without Banners being re-introduced in this episode, and Thoros of Myr is rumored to be cast for at least one episode in season 6. I may be setting myself up for more disappointment, but the writers have put all the right pieces into place for her storyline to take hold.
 

XionHorsey

Hi! Hi!
I would just like to say that if Berserk was EVER made into a Live Action show, I would like Miguel Sapochnik to direct it.

Easily one of the best episodes of any show EVER.
 

Feeblecursedone

"This hammer has broken Daemons on my anvil, Elf.
Delta Phi said:
I feel like that's basically been this entire season.

True. I prefer when they kill off characters to advance plot or develop characters instead of just not needing them anymore. With that said,
Ramsey's death was freaking brutal.I guess you reap what you sow with the dogs eh?
 
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