The Index Finger
The Spatula of the Chef Hand
Just a question of how he even is still living in the armor and the full process behind it.
How did Skull Knight's spirit transfer work?
- Thread starter The Index Finger
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We don’t know exactly how. It’s just a supposition of ours that it is likely to have occurred that way, due to what Hanarr said about him, inferences about Flora’s exile, and the introduction of the Volvaba, all in close proximity to Miura revealing the death of Gaizeric.
He's a dead spirit encased in a magical armor. Not really "alive" per se. As for details of the exact process, like Walter said above, we don't know what it was like. We can only surmise.
Pure speculation:
Gaeseric was mortally wounded after fighting (and potentially defeating) some members of the GodHand using the Berserker armor, most likely after an Eclipse Sacrifice that destroyed his kingdom. He survived long enough to get back to the safety of allies. Flora, a close ally and friend, and the witch Volvaba may have used taboo magic to prevent his spirit from passing on to the Vortex, long enough for Hanarr to construct a special armor set to house his spirit. They performed a ritual to house his spirit in the new armor, trapping him between life and death.
Most of this is implied, but not outrightly said.
Gaeseric was mortally wounded after fighting (and potentially defeating) some members of the GodHand using the Berserker armor, most likely after an Eclipse Sacrifice that destroyed his kingdom. He survived long enough to get back to the safety of allies. Flora, a close ally and friend, and the witch Volvaba may have used taboo magic to prevent his spirit from passing on to the Vortex, long enough for Hanarr to construct a special armor set to house his spirit. They performed a ritual to house his spirit in the new armor, trapping him between life and death.
Most of this is implied, but not outrightly said.
It's a bit vague how long after the confrontation with the God Hand it is. I doubt he rushed up to them and killed the proto-apostles with the priestess in his arms. I read this as two separate moments. My speculative assumption is that his death occurs once back to relative safety where allies can do a last-ditch effort at soul transference.
FYI, there's no case for his name being spelled "Gaeseric". Anyway, that part above isn't really speculation. It's clearly implied to be the case by the sequence of events, and I don't think Miura constructed it to trick the reader.
Given the way the Volvaba refers to Flora, it's not clear to me that she was an active participant in that whole thing. She didn't get exiled herself, for one thing.
He didn't have the woman in his arms, but it can still occur directly afterwards. Also, the process of encasing his soul in the armor probably didn't happen right after his death. Hanarr would have had to create the armor to begin with.
Sorry about the spelling.
There's a lot open about this sequence. I think we know there's a gap between running up to seeing the new God Hand, and then looking down at the woman and dying. It sure seems like there was a confrontation in between.
That being said, it's certainly possible that he died right after whatever confrontation occured. It just seems simpler to have his dying spirit directly transferred into the armor, versus having him die and then resurrect his spirit from the Vortex. I assumed that he'd be destined there, and therefore the armor was a way to prevent that.
There was no resurrection because he's still dead. And he did die according to what we know; he wasn't "saved at the last moment". Clearly his soul didn't make it to the Vortex, or else he couldn't have come back.
It's implied that this is the taboo Flora did
But what i'm more interested in, is why these important people cared so much for him
Because it's said (implying he's Gaiseric) he was a selfish and greedy king at some point, but at the same time he was friends with magical users that did all that for him
But what i'm more interested in, is why these important people cared so much for him
Because it's said (implying he's Gaiseric) he was a selfish and greedy king at some point, but at the same time he was friends with magical users that did all that for him
That's hearsay from a thousand years after the facts. The whole tale is unreliable and presented as such in the first place (e.g. there's uncertainty as to how many "angels" were there).
Mages and God Hand are able to guide and control spirits of dead. Femto does it as a public spectacle. Volvaba does it to power those Wicker Men. Not to mention, spirits of dead kind of hang around in interstice too. Just ask Guts about it. Then powerful emotions can manifest itself in physical and spiritual world. Just look into Conviction arc about how ghosts and negativity of people in Albion was put to some interesting use.
SK died with massive regret, love and hate at the same time. No wonder he haunted some place after dying without passing peacefully. He even says that : "A Ruin of Love and Hate" , "Forever Bound to one Place". These are all signs of becoming a haunting spirit.
I believe Flora in her light body form guided him to a purpose build armour and put a spell to bind him there. I believe that armour has some part of his physical remain too. Wicker Men had skulls of the sacrificed soldiers and they collectively powered it, moving according to a Mage's wishes. This is likely why that armour is derided as a coffin by Fernirr (forgot his correct name). Meaning an enchanted magical object can act as a body moving by the motive of the bound soul. I believe Flora did something more than that too... so that SK can retain his identity and memories or parts of that too. Likely this was the forbidden part. Or directing the soul itself since it messes up whatever the natural flow of souls is.
The Volvaba uses spirits of the dead as helpers, and I guess that's what you're referring to. But the actual Wicker Men are from an older age and we don't know how they were created or by whom.
That's a misinterpretation of what he's saying. His point to Danan is that he's only a remnant of who he was as a human, and is fixated on a single thing: destroying the God Hand. But of course, that might not be entirely true.
I really don't think the process by which Gaizeric's soul is enclosed in Hanarr's armor is similar to how Wicker Men were created. And I'm not convinced it's proper to compare him to random ghosts in the first place.
The question becomes whom can you trust in this manga because there are unreliable narratives mixed with reliable ones.
Morda said these Wicker Men were put into use with sacrifices of captured enemy soldiers (in ch 361). In ch 343, our party was discussing that they have read it in a book that these Wicker Men were fetish that use "life force" of a sacrifice.
Visually they have skull faces inside the wicker men when it is deployed and when it is broken ghost figures escape (ch 343, last page).
The only logical conclusion is that Wicker men are holding sacrificed humans (may be other creatures) souls to move them.
As for who made them... Volvaba is an expert in necormancy (as described by Morda)... and she keeps these near her. She is old as hell (atleast as old as Flora when she died). Wicker Men look very necromancy products to me. So, circumstantially, she or her former teacher is the one who made them.
I don't think that comes in consideration here. It's clear the Wicker Men are powered by human sacrifices, but we don't know exactly how that worked, and more importantly, I don't think that has anything to do with the procedure that was used to create the Skull Knight.
Like I said, we don't know who created them. I don't think it's safe to assume the Volvaba did it.
Just to be sure:
Do you mean that we do not have evidence that the process of Gaizeric being bound to that armor is similar to how Wicker Men work?
OR
Do you mean that we have some evidence that it is dis-similar?
If you believe it is the first then I do agree, my belief is merely a conjecture guided by what I know. If it is the later, then I will love to know what are the reasons.
You are right. I looked at the original japanese text.
Denan : "Are you here to visit the grave of lady priestess cherry blossom, sir Knight?"
SK : "I am a harbinger of doom, a ruin of love" "Forever Bound for one Place" "I can not bask in the afterglow of my past".
"Forever Bound for one Place" (official translation) is rather poor choice of words for this translation...
目指す地は常に一つ
This is better translated to : "My aim is always one".
@puella does a much better job!
"I have always been heading towards a single thing."
Basically, the idea was SK is so darned full of regret and hate that he can not even willingly visit the grave of those whom he loved dearly in this past and his coming to the island is all his (vengence) business. This is his monomania now.
I do believe he is a bit more than random ghost, since he retains his identity and cognition rather very well as compared to ghosts who just seek Casca and Guts out of pure instinct. This is why I had also said that Flora did something more than just binding the soul. She preserved his identity, his memories (or atleast parts of that) and his cognition somehow. I think that part may be the reason she was (self?)-banished.
That being said, I do believe he has a lot more in common to those ghosts and their haunting and possession (**
! I can never see horses normally now! **). The basic idea feels the same, only augmented by whatever additional pixie dust 
Flora sprinkled.Now that we are discussing.... Flora... hangs around in dream world too.... wonder how is she pulling a Yoda (ie being a Daimon).
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What I said doesn't require clarification: "I really don't think the process by which Gaizeric's soul is enclosed in Hanarr's armor is similar to how Wicker Men were created."
There are many reasons for why that is, starting with the fact SK is an independently operating character and a very powerful one at that, while the hundreds of souls used to power a Wicker Man are just fuel for it, since as Molda says it's a puppet to be ordered around. It's very obvious from even a quick look that they are completely different and were created in completely different ways.
It's "Danan".
Not to be harsh but unless you're fluent in Japanese I don't think you're qualified to evaluate the quality of @puella's translations.
You don't say.
That being said, I do believe he has a lot more in common to those ghosts and their haunting and possession (**
I really don't think so.
This is explained in the manga: she became a Daimon. And as I said when the concept was introduced: it's quite possible that being a Daimon played a large part in how the Skull Knight was created. So there you have your answer.
I guess it did not come out right in writing.
I was appreciating and being thankful for her work. I found her translations to be way more clear than those in official ones.
My reasoning is this (and let me say from the onset, since the passing of Miura-sensei at such a critical point in the story, all I can do is make conjectures/reasoning around the rules of the world he has created):
The most striking part of SK to me was his ability to freely interact with physical and astra world. As a comparison as powerful as Godhands -- the quintessential astral beings with God like powers -- are, they can not normally interact with the physical world. They (or at least one of them) require either to be incarnated OR part of physical world to be pulled into deeper parts of astra world.
I believe Flora currently is similar. She can not really interact with physical world normally and even communication with her can happen in dreams only OR with special magical abilities.
I do not have a reference right now in my mind, but I remember reading SK is rooted in interstice, unlike Flora ie a Daimon rooted in much deeper part of astra world.
This in my opinion is the critical difference between SK and Daimons. Daimons are rooted deep in astral world and can not normally interact with physical world while SK is rooted in interstice. So the closest astral entities to SK are ghosts IMHO. They can interact with physical world like he does. They are also denizens of interstice like he is.
And thats why I believe he is more similar to ghost and Flora sprinkled some unknown pixie dust on his ghost after binding him to the armour like they do it with Wicker Men.
Now why do I believe interaction with physical world is such a big deal? Because two of the pivotal point of this world building hang on it. Incarnation of Femto AND restrictions on Flora after her death.
Alright, gotcha.
This is a weird comparison. The Skull Knight is never shown going deep into the astral world, say like Schierke does in her body of light. And the quintessential astral beings would rather be the four elemental kings!
Fantasia was very specifically created by the ethereal world washing over the corporeal, like a tsunami covering the land. And if you're talking about Slan in the Qliphoth, it's not that the corporeal world was "pulled into" the ethereal world either, more like a connection was created between them which allowed Guts' group to travel there. So she didn't actually manifest in the corporeal world at that time, but in an upper layer of the ethereal world.
"Rooted" feels like a strange way to put it. He just exists within the Interstice.
Looks like you're missing the obvious here: the reason SK can subsist within the Interstice is because he was encased in that magical armor Hanarr created. An act which got Flora expelled from Skellig. See? It all fits.
Your whole thing with "oh Flora just sprinkled dust on a ghost or whatever" is not serious. It sounds ridiculous. Same with insisting on comparing him to a Wicker Man.
Beelzebud
[...] Into the abyss will I run [...]
First of all, Gaiseric should have retained his individuality, I thing we didn't see at Berserk ghosts, they are only driven for some primal emotions, desires.
Remember there's no plan ahead for Gaiseric death, probably the armor already existed yeah, but in order to his soul the be incased in it, first he should've been able to retain his individuality after death for himself(or whatever is required in order to became a Daimon, that's to be a Hero for humans afawk).
There's one other important point, may sound dumb, but: What about the horse? How can the horse Soul/Ghost still be around? My suggestion is that Gaiseric became a Daimon with the shape he was know by humans: A Knight with Skull-faced Helmet, so there's no two separated souls, the horse is part of his spirit as a Daimon.
- I don't think the Skull Knight ever was a Daimon, but I guess it sounds kind of plausible
- I doubt an answer was ever planned regarding the horse's soul transfer
Beelzebud
[...] Into the abyss will I run [...]
Well, knowing Miura attention for details, he surely planned an answer to what is the horse and a how. But it's weird topic to talk about haha
- I doubt an answer was ever planned regarding the horse's soul transfer
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There's no grounds to believe his armor existed prior to his death. There would have been no need for it. It's pretty clear it was created specifically so that he could remain in the corporeal world even after death.
Beelzebud
[...] Into the abyss will I run [...]
You're absolutely right, we even saw what's probably the POV of his own death while wearing the Berserker Armor.
I was just over thinking about he already using a skull helmet before(like my on profile picture).
Anyway that just strengths the idea that his death wasn't anticipated.