Mass Effect 2

Aazealh said:
Hahaha, busted! You should email them about it, try to pressure them into giving you something for your trouble.

Oh, they'd probably just give me an EA Seal Of Approval or something like that. Probably much worse looking than yours, too. :guts:

Aazealh said:
Makes me wonder what the Mass Effect Galaxy bonus will be. I hope it won't be redundant with the contents of the Collector's Edition...

My guess is it'll be much like the game itself: small but awesome. Don't forget to report here when you guys find out what the bonus is, I'm also looking forward to seeing what I'll miss!

Aazealh said:
Indeed, BSG nerds will finally be able to play as a Cylon centurion.

Haha, yeah. And that light on the visor always seemed too sci-fi on Dragon Age. Now it's the blood painting that will look too medieval. :ganishka:
 

Aazealh

Administrator
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Eluvei said:
Probably much worse looking than yours, too.

Hehe, all the credit goes to CnC. :ubik:

Eluvei said:
My guess is it'll be much like the game itself: small but awesome. Don't forget to report here when you guys find out what the bonus is, I'm also looking forward to seeing what I'll miss!

Count on it!

Eluvei said:
Haha, yeah. And that light on the visor always seemed too sci-fi on Dragon Age. Now it's the blood painting that will look too medieval. :ganishka:

I don't know, it looks good to me. :guts:

Blood_Dragon_Armor.jpg
 

Walter

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Staff member
Ok, finally we have details on the DIGITAL deluxe edition, which is likely what I'll be getting once it's officially announced on Steam. Direct2Drive was the first to get it: http://www.direct2drive.com/3/8859/product/Buy-Mass-Effect-2-Digital-Deluxe-Edition-Download

Details are:

* Preorder Bonus: Inferno Armor

* Collector Armor and Assault Rifle
Two bonus in-game items: advanced regeneration armor and a powerful shield-shredding assault rifle.

* Incisor Rifle
Firing three shots with each pull of the trigger, the Incisor Rifle is designed to decimate shields before the enemy even realizes they have been hit.

* Original Soundtrack
The Mass Effect 2 original soundtrack features 12 pieces spanning the entire Mass Effect 2 experience.

* Digital Art Book
The art book contains 48 pages of stunning full color artwork including captions from the Mass Effect 2 team.

* Digital Mass Effect Redemption #1 Comic
Featuring a limited edition cover, this issue of Redemption is the first part of a four part series as Liara T’Soni embarks on a dangerous mission to find Commander Shepard.

* Documentary Video
Featuring over 30 minutes of behind-the-scenes and making-of videos, the Mass Effect 2 documentary takes an exclusive look at how Mass Effect 2 was made.

* Cerberus Network
Included in the Digital Deluxe of Mass Effect 2 is a code to granting access to additional bonus content via the in game Cerberus Network.

=========
Sounds good to me! Basically it's everything you get in the standard Deluxe edition, only digital. Makes sense.
 

Aazealh

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Walter said:
Sounds good to me! Basically it's everything you get in the standard Deluxe edition, only digital. Makes sense.

Actually, like I said in a previous post, the physical Collector's Edition doesn't get the OST nor the Incisor rifle. It's unfair. :judo:
 
Sweet, pre-order bonuses! I wonder if Steam's is gonna be the Terminus Assault armor and that bonus weapon, since stores had different bonuses for the physical copies.

Aazealh said:
It's unfair. :judo:

At least you'll get your hands on physical copies of the art book and first comic book! Plus, the tin case must be beautiful to look at, all shiny and stuff. :SK:
 

Aazealh

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Eluvei said:
At least you'll get your hands on physical copies of the art book and first comic book! Plus, the tin case must be beautiful to look at, all shiny and stuff. :SK:

Yeah and I can always get the full OST (the version included in the Digital Deluxe Edition will likely be truncated) separately if I want to. Still, I could have done with that nifty rifle! :puck:
 

Walter

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Staff member
"If players start a New Game + after beating the game they will be able to re-use the same character import file they did for their first playthrough. Yes New Game + is making a return to Mass Effect 2!" - Chris Priestly of BioWare.

That's a new stance BioWare has taken on ME2's endgame stuff compared to what was said in June:

"We have been working very hard to make sure we design the abilities system to offer smooth progression into ME3 from ME2. Allowing double progression on characters makes that almost impossible. We replaced that feature with playing after you were done because it preserves progression and allows for smoother downloading of PRC." - Preston Watamaniuk, ME1's lead designer.

In the end, we'll see. Though I'm not going to really knock the game for not including the feature. I'd much rather just start a new character than play through it with New Game +.
 

Aazealh

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Staff member
I don't really see the interest of starting again from scratch with the same character you used to beat the game. I guess that'll depend on what the New Game + offers... Still, I prefer the idea of just continuing to play after finishing the main storyline.
 
Like Walter, I prefer to remake a character completely. But it's a welcome addition, let's say I want to make a quick replay just to see some different dialogue and different choices. Much faster to just go with your old character, with a good armor, weapons and stuff.

Aazealh said:
Yeah and I can always get the full OST (the version included in the Digital Deluxe Edition will likely be truncated) separately if I want to.

You're right, that's how it was with Dragon Age's OST.

Does anyone know if the first game's composers are returning? I've still heard nothing about it.
 

Aazealh

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Eluvei said:
Does anyone know if the first game's composers are returning? I've still heard nothing about it.

Jack Wall composed it. However I don't know if the other people (Sam Hulick, Richard Jacques, David Kates) who had worked on ME1's OST returned. All I can tell you is that each one of them had originally expressed interest in working on the second game. In any case Jack Wall was the main composer on Mass Effect and so we can expect the same level of awesomeness this time around.

ME2-OST.jpg
 

Walter

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Staff member
More details on the bonuses of importing your ME1 save game. Apparently your level will matter:

source: http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3177472
"If you finished ME1 as a high level character you will receive greater bonuses than those who finished at lower levels," explained community coordinator Chris Priestly. "Ex, if you finished ME1 as a level 35 character, you will receive a bonus, but if you finished ME1 as a level 50 character, your bonus will be larger."

Exactly what this "bonus" will be wasn't fully specified, although Priestly mentioned it could include "a monetary boost at the start of the game, or additional research resources for use at the Normandy's Tech Lab." But Priestly also made clear the bonuses won't be so great as to put new players without a save import at a disadvantage.

And another nice touch: If you completed Mass Effect with either the Paragon or Renegade title, a portion of the alignment will carry over into Mass Effect 2, "making it easier to access certain dialogue options."
Nice! My guy is only level 55 or so, but that's fine with me. Now, to import my Renegade or Paragon Shepard.... hmmmmm....
 
Aazealh said:
In any case Jack Wall was the main composer on Mass Effect and so we can expect the same level of awesomeness this time around.

It' be great if all the original people returned to compose the score for the sequel. Tracks like 'Sovereign' and 'Vigil' were just so awesome to listen to.
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Walter said:
More details on the bonuses of importing your ME1 save game. Apparently your level will matter:

Nice! My guy is only level 55 or so, but that's fine with me. Now, to import my Renegade or Paragon Shepard.... hmmmmm....

Sounds good to me! I don't think I had reached both Paragon and Renegade levels on the playthrough I'll import though (only Paragon), bummer. :sad:

Proj2501 said:
It' be great if all the original people returned to compose the score for the sequel. Tracks like 'Sovereign' and 'Vigil' were just so awesome to listen to.

I agree. For info, here are the tracks Sam Hulick worked on for Mass Effect according to his website:

- Bring Down the Sky
- A Very Dangerous Place
- Protecting The Colony
- Uncharted Worlds
- Uplink
- Victory
- From The Wreckage
- Protecting The Colony (pt. 2)
- Encounter on Ilos (was not used in the game)

From Richard Jacques' website, his contribution:

- Unexplored Worlds (was not used in the game)
- The Ice Planet (was not used in the game)
- The Citadel
- Beneath the Ice World(was not used in the game)
- Exit
- The Alien Queen

As for David Kates, Jack Wall had asked him to score 15 minutes of cinematic music for the game, and they worked together on a track they call "Battle against Sovereign" that isn't in the OST but is in the game. He also did "Infusion", which is included in the OST. Keep in mind those lists aren't necessarily exhaustive though, it's just stuff I put together from what they each showcase on their website.

And now just because I'm super cool here's an old interview of the composers I pulled out of the grave:

http://www.music4games.net/Features_Display.aspx?id=191 (now defunct) said:
12.3.2007
Interview with Mass Effect Music Composer Team


From the creators of the critically-acclaimed Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic and Jade Empire comes Mass Effect, an epic space saga exclusively for the Xbox 360 that spans the entire galaxy. Combining a rich and engaging narrative with intense sci-fi tactical combat, Mass Effect features an immersive and cinematic gameplay experience rarely seen before in video games.

Inspired by classic sci-fi movies such as ‘Blade Runner’ and ‘Dune,’ the Mass Effect soundtrack was composed by Jack Wall and Sam Hulick with additional music by Richard Jacques and David Kates. The score blends 80’s electronic music with modern orchestral scoring to enhance the dramatic storyline and beautiful visuals set in an epic futuristic universe. M4G interviews the full composer team to find out more about their collaboration and the making of the score.


M4G: How did you get involved with Mass Effect? At what stage were you brought in to write music?

Jack Wall: Originally I was the only composer on Mass Effect, until I effectively became lead composer of this team between January and July of this year. I auditioned way back in October of 2005 and wrote the first sketches and themes just prior to E3 of 2006 – the last big E3. When the production of this massive project ran overtime to January of ‘07, the scoring schedule was compressed, I had some other commitments and with BioWare’s permission I brought in Sam Hulick to help finish the score. Sam and Richard both had auditioned for the game as well and they wrote some really dynamite cues for that. I kept thinking that their music would work just as well as what I did, so the fact that they ended up working with me on the final score just seemed right! In January when Sam started, he and I kept expecting all of the 40+ minutes of cutscenes to be coming in that month, but of course, it was delayed until July. Then we only had 2 weeks to complete all of that. That’s when I brought in the very talented Richard Jacques and David Kates to help Sam and I with that workload. Both Richard and David just really brought it and wrote some great stuff under intense pressure. I just want to say that I really appreciate what the other composers did in the end to create that glue with their individual work. They all did a really great job.


M4G: Aside from classic sci-fi soundtracks such as 'Blade Runner' and 'Dune,' what were some of the other references that the audio director and the dev team provided? Was the music brief the same for each of you?

Jack Wall: I worked directly with Casey Hudson, Project Director, on the direction of the score. The day-to-day was managed by Steve Sim and Mike Kent, the audio directors on Mass Effect. From the beginning, Casey wanted a late 70’s/early 80’s treatment – similar to 'Blade Runner' with other influences like Tangerine Dream and Cliff Martinez’ 'Solaris' score. It became really fun for me to work with the other composers on maintaining the melodic structure that had already been created. The brief was the same for everyone of course. Sam ended up coming up with the opening, which unlocked the entire remainder of the score.


M4G: How much music did each of you write and how long did the process take? How did BioWare decide who wrote what?

Jack Wall: Total music written was about 110 minutes, of which I directly wrote approx. 55 and collaborated with the others on the rest. Sam also wrote a bunch on his own. But all of us also mixed tons of stems for all cues that got used and broken up and slotted in at various parts during the RPG conversations. That helped to keep the melodic content meaningful to the characters and situations, much like a film. Since Mass Effect is almost like an interactive film, this worked quite nicely. For the most part, I decided who wrote which pieces, but there were times when BioWare would ask Sam to write something specific when I was otherwise occupied. It worked out nicely.

Sam Hulick: I myself wound up writing just over 30 minutes of music, with roughly 10 minutes of that being cinematics.

Richard Jacques: I wrote about 25 minutes of cinematics, some of which are also being used for gameplay. I had around 3 weeks to do the work, which was pretty tough I can tell you!

David Kates: I wrote about 15 minutes over a three week period. Considering where we were in the schedule, I wrote what I was asked to write, and got straight to work. The challenge of coming in toward the end of a production is learning quickly how everyone works together, the protocol of communication and product delivery, and of course, the creative needs that are expected of you. There’s little time for experimentation, but everyone from Jack, Sam, Richard, and the entire production team were continually supportive as I got up to speed.


M4G: Employing several composers to create the soundtrack for AAA titles seems to be a growing trend. How do you ensure that a score created by multiple composers is a cohesive listening experience? Can you describe the collaboration process for Mass Effect?

Jack Wall: I’d love to hear what the other guys will say about this! As lead composer, I worked with the others to help make sure that melodic content was used in the right places. I would get on the phone with them and explain what I wanted their cues to do both emotionally and melodically. Mac Walters would also get on the phone with them and explain, in depth, the story point of view to give each composer the sense of what was happening at that point emotionally and with each character.

I’d listen to their first drafts and provide feedback if I thought it would be helpful. It was actually a lot of fun to help guide their talents in a way that was, most of the time, transparent to the team at BioWare. It’s important to point out that by the time the other guys came on the project, I had a really solid idea of what the game needed. Most of the melodies were already written and approved and it was just important to keep it all sounding like one score. Though we each have our own sound, I think those differences end up working out well with a variety of sound as long as we can keep our melodic content focused. That was the goal.

Sam Hulick: Jack is spot on as far as making sure there’s melodic cohesiveness. On top of that, it helps to use the same--or very similar, at least--sounds as well, and we all did make a point to use the same virtual synthesizers. I’m looking forward to us working on Mass Effect 2, because next time we’ll all be going into the project together from the beginning, and I think that, along with being armed with our collective experience from the previous collaboration on Mass Effect, will really result in something even stronger than the score for the first game. Jack has a knack for quickly picking up on our individual styles, and knowing each of our strengths and how to best utilize the team’s talents. The collaboration process felt really efficient to me.

Richard Jacques: I was already familiar with what the project was needing, so when I came on board I already had somewhat of a head start. It was quite a challenge to remain cohesive from the production and mix standpoint, as everyone has their own ‘sound’, and styles of production. Musically it just worked out great, as we had a library of themes and melodic ideas, and everyone rose to the challenge and showed their strengths in their contributions to Mass Effect.

David Kates: As Jack points out, by the time I came on board, most of the themes were established, as were their placement in the game. I found this to be quite a relief considering the time I had, and was able to focus on the style and dramatization of my scenes….it didn’t hurt either that Jack’s and Sam’s themes were extraordinary and easy to apply to different settings. Before I wrote a note, I listened carefully to what Jack, Sam, and Richard had already written, and then I just had at it. It was a pretty simple process. I was given a scene, a theme, and an overall motivation. After I composed the cue, I would marry it to its video file, get feedback from Jack and the BioWare production team, make the changes, if any (ha!), and wrap it up with a final mix. Jack really does get special points for being an awesome team leader, and I would also like to mention how supportive the production team and all the composers were with each other. Everyone was working for the good of the project, and that definitely shows through in the final product. We were a great team.


M4G: Was it a conscious decision not to record live in order to maintain the overall scifi synth aura?

Jack Wall: Absolutely not! I’d always want to record to make everything as good as it can be. In fact, I’m really not used to doing it any other way. In this case, we really could get away with it because of the electronic nature of the score and though we had the backing to do the recording, we just didn’t have the time at the end of the production to make it happen. Again, the electronics are paramount so it worked out well.

Richard Jacques: I think all of us are used to both recording live and synth orchestration. Because we were all very pressed for time, and the score is more weighted in the electronic genre, it actually made much more sense to do it this way, as we were all able to keep writing right up to the wire. Of course we are already talking about ways to improve upon the Mass Effect score, and this is one area we will certainly be looking at.


M4G: What were the virtual synths you used to create the score?

Sam Hulick: I used a few of Arturia's software synths (CS-80, Moog, miniMoog), and Spectrasonics' Atmosphere. I know the other guys used some of that too and probably even more..

Jack Wall: Yeah, all the Arturia stuff, Trilogy, Stylus RMX, Albino, Reason, Korg Legacy...


M4G: What are the differences scoring an RPG compared with other gaming genres? How do these factors affect the way you write the music?

Jack Wall: You have to pay quite a bit of attention to what the storyteller is doing and in this way we all had direct access to Mac Walters, one of the writers for the story. He always helped us to piece together what would come before and what would come after what we are doing at any one moment in the game. Melody is key to me to keep the story grounded and to mean something important to the player as they progress through the story.

Sam Hulick: Yep, the weight is placed heavily on story and flow. RPGs naturally have more of a focus on story-telling, so the music has to serve as an aid to that cause and, in fact, can sometimes move the story along independently of the visuals and dialogue.

Richard Jacques: With any dialogue driven game it’s important to score the music subtly around the dialogue. Most RPG’s have quite sparse music during the game, especially in terms of orchestration, yet highlight pivotal story moments with more heavily orchestrated music during the cinematics.

David Kates: Yes, our access to Mac was essential to keep us on track. Even though I often had a visual guide, the sub-text and intentions of the scene were not necessarily obvious. Mac would clarify the back story and intentions of the characters in a given scene making composing the cue that much easier. The storylines were so complex, I have no idea how he kept all that information straight.

M4G: What is your favorite track that you composed for the Mass Effect score and why?

Jack Wall: There are a lot of cues that I really liked by everyone on the team. But if I’d have to pick one, it would still have to be a toss up between "The Presidium" theme and "The Citadel" that Richard Jacques wrote. Even though I didn’t directly write that one, Richard used Sam’s opening theme (which I also really love!) and the Presidium Theme to create the perfect reveal of this most important moment. I worked really close with Richard on this one guiding his talent through it, but he certainly deserves the credit for his compositional and arranging skill putting it together. It is a great moment in the game and it was really satisfying to hear how he developed those themes there. I really like the way David’s "Infusion" track came out, but you’ll have get the soundtrack to know which that is!

Sam Hulick: Tough question, but I think of the tracks I wrote, "From The Wreckage" is my favorite, hands down, just because I’m a sucker for the somber orchestral stuff, and I’m really happy with how it turned out: the writing, the orchestration, everything. The big climax at the end is great, too (thanks to Jack for a couple suggestions there that made a big difference)! "The Presidium" and "The Citadel" are my favorites of Jack’s and Richard’s, respectively. "The Presidium" has a really amazing blend of fantasy, majesty, mystery, and darkness, all in one. I think it gives the player a sense of the grandness of the place we’ve just arrived at, and simultaneously foreshadows something dark in the near future. "The Citadel" is a wonderfully written piece, Richard did a killer job at taking the main theme and "The Presidium" theme and making them his own. It succeeds really well at pumping up the player and preparing them for the adventure ahead. It’s definitely one of my favorites.

Jack Wall: Yes, "From the Wreckage" is awesome! I love how it’s understated at the top and tells the story. Yes, nice track.

Richard Jacques: "The Citadel" did indeed come out really well, you really get a sense of awe, majesty and wonder, with a continuing sense of exploration. I also really enjoyed working on "The Alien Queen." I’m just playing that section of the game right at the moment and it works really well. I also love hearing the Title Screen music and the Galaxy Map cues.

David Kates: A favorite of mine is a cue I collaborated on with Jack called "Battle of Sovereign." It’s based on Sam’s "Sovereign’s Theme" and dramatically complex with different layers of intensity constantly being added. Collaboration is a fascinating endeavor. It’s like "tag team" composing, and in this case, the two of us discovered things about the piece we might never have alone. I’m also very fond of Richard’s "The Citadel" cue, and frankly all of my colleagues’ work is really super and top notch…what a mutual admiration society we are.


M4G: What do you think is the most unique aspect of the score for Mass Effect?

Jack Wall: I’d say Casey’s vision and direction for the music. The score is really unlike anything I’ve ever heard. I also think the mix of all of our work complements each other well. We all have our strengths and I like how that played out.

Sam Hulick: It’s not that orchestral/electronica hybrids haven’t been done before, but I think the approach is really fresh, so yes, kudos to Casey on that! I think what makes the score unique is the fact that we’re mixing a 70s/80s sci-fi sound with a modern orchestral palette, and putting that in a modern setting.

Richard Jacques: I would agree that it’s not necessarily that we are using electronic and orchestral elements together, it’s how they’ve been used, and the tonality of the whole thing. We were also all very focused on how the electronic elements were going to be treated, especially with regard to production and mix and I think this makes a big difference to the overall sound.

David Kates: I recall listening to Jack’s early sketches long before I had any idea I would participate. I was very turned on by the retro/futuristic stylization he was developing, and then combining that with classic orchestration was the icing. The score is a uniquely, evocative portrayal of this futuristic story, one that brings you inside the world of the characters in a truly transparent way… the sign of a successful score!


M4G: Will you be scoring the rest of the Mass Effect trilogy together?

Jack Wall: I think that would be great. We’re in discussions and everyone seems to have the philosophy that if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it!

Sam Hulick: I’m definitely on board! It was a really great experience working with these guys, and having Jack bring it all together.

Richard Jacques: I’m there. I feel that we all bring a great deal to the table, and have a number of different skills. Plus I have nearly finished the game so I need another installment soon!

David Kates: It would be awesome to work with you guys again as a team…..wait, let me check my schedule…..hmm…..hey next time, can I start at the beginning?


M4G: What other scoring assignments do you have coming up that you can mention?

Jack Wall: Nothing that I can mention. On another note, I am very busy with VGL this coming year. I think I’d like to focus on that a little more next year and definitely put some Mass Effect music in the show!

Sam Hulick: At the moment, I'm working on music for some upcoming downloadable content for Mass Effect, and I’m wrapping up work on Rise & Ruin, a 3D web-based multi-player combat trading card game. Beyond game stuff, in my few spare moments I’m working on producing an album, kind of an electronic/neo-classical mix.

Richard Jacques: I’ve just finished on The Club and Conflict: Denied Ops, both which are due out early next year, and I am already incredibly busy on another score which will be announced soon.

David Kates: I’m currently working on 2 unannounced projects and a documentary film.
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Wow! Still reading, but that's a great find. I loved hearing their descriptions of their favorite tracks. :ubik:
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Walter said:
Wow! Still reading, but that's a great find. I loved hearing their descriptions of their favorite tracks. :ubik:

I'm surprised they didn't mention Vigil or the Virmire assault track to be honest, as these are my favorite.
 
Nice interview, thanks for posting. I'm glad Jack Wall is returning, let's just hope the other guys return as well! Based on the info you collected, Sam Hullick wrote some of the most epic tracks, like the last ones on the game, I love 'em.

Oh, I forgot Jack Wall was the conductor for VGL. I saw the man live in my city before I was a fan! :troll:

How did you guys feel about Faunts' song, M4 Pt. 2? I enjoyed it... but I'd probably like any song that played
in the game's credits
, since I was too amazed, happy and excited to dislike anything at the moment I first heard it.
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Eluvei said:
Nice interview, thanks for posting. I'm glad Jack Wall is returning, let's just hope the other guys return as well! Based on the info you collected, Sam Hullick wrote some of the most epic tracks, like the last ones on the game, I love 'em.

I like "Uncharted Worlds". :iva: Anyway this time around it seems Jack Wall is credited as the only composer (see the OST cover I posted). I don't really know how this works but maybe the others worked under him and each was credited for individual tracks or something.

Eluvei said:
Oh, I forgot Jack Wall was the conductor for VGL. I saw the man live in my city before I was a fan!

Did they play Mass Effect music? I know they did once in Brazil. Not so in Paris. :judo:

Eluvei said:
How did you guys feel about Faunts' song, M4 Pt. 2? I enjoyed it... but I'd probably like any song that played
in the game's credits
, since I was too amazed, happy and excited to dislike anything at the moment I first heard it.

I think it's pretty rad, especially the guitar riffs. I wouldn't mind a new track in the same vein for ME2's credits.
 
Aazealh said:
I don't really know how this works but maybe the others worked under him and each was credited for individual tracks or something.

Yeah. Well, Jack Wall is the most famous of the group, so maybe they decided to make it cleaner and put just his name there for commercial purposes or something. Anyway, I'm really glad the music will kick ass again, his presence is enough to make that clear to us!

Aazealh said:
Did they play Mass Effect music? I know they did once in Brazil. Not so in Paris.

Wow, I didn't even know they played Mass Effect music. Apparently they played it here in 2008... I went in 2006. :judo:
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Eluvei said:
Yeah. Well, Jack Wall is the most famous of the group, so maybe they decided to make it cleaner and put just his name there for commercial purposes or something.

I highly doubt that. It's not good form (might even be illegal for all I know) and Jack Wall's not popular enough that it would make a difference. Besides all 4 guys were credited on the cover of the previous OST, with Sam Hulick equally credited as composer.
 

Vampire_Hunter_Bob

Cats are great
Walter said:
That's what I like to see.

I was talking to Grail about this the other day, this game has some seriously mad replay value. I'm going through it on my 7th time and this is the career i'm taking with me. Also i'm going for the max lvl.
 
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