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residentgrigo

Excitement and Enjoyment!
Zack Snyder's Justice League fully delivered. The time I spent on the RTSC campaign was justfied. The fans and I are getting this train back on the road. #RestoreTheSnyderVerse is clearly going places. Ayer Cut next. I also love how bad the new, well old, version makes Joss Whedon and the old WB executives look. This Cyborg is blockbuster material. WB abused both Ray Fisher and his/Zack´s take on Cyborg in 2017.
 
Zack Snyder's Justice League fully delivered. The time I spent on the RTSC campaign was justfied. The fans and I are getting this train back on the road. #RestoreTheSnyderVerse is clearly going places. Ayer Cut next. I also love how bad the new, well old, version makes Joss Whedon and the old WB executives look. This Cyborg is blockbuster material. WB abused both Ray Fisher and his/Zack´s take on Cyborg in 2017.
To be honest, I had no intention of watching the movie but a critic whose opinion I respect published a positive review, so I got curious. Having just watched it, I have to say that Snyder’s version is, in my opinion, the better movie without a doubt (not that the other version set the bar too high, mind you). This version is much more coherent and handles the plot points in a better way.
I knew that the movie was almost four hours long before going in, so I was a bit worried, but the movie doesn’t feel that long. Yes, there are some scenes that could be shortened, but the movie didn’t feel at all like a chore. To me it felt more like binging a mini series (the movie is even divided in parts, so that makes it feel more episodic).
All in all, an unexpected and pleasant surprise. :shrug:
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
I was actually looking forward to this because I kind of like the story of the Internet simping it into existence, but then I saw an interview with Snyder where he made Joss Whedon seem humble. He was actually saying BvS was the highest level cult movie ever made and that it created so much more discourse than, say, Aquaman, etc. I mean, besides the fact The Last Jedi was a much bigger phenomenon by this bizarre metric (and still made big money), that's one insane way to justify your relative failure, "The problem is I'm such an integrity-filled iconoclast. Sure, Aquaman was fun and made a billion dollars, but who cares, did half the Internet hate it!? Now that's how you know TRUE ART!"

But I digress, I got 15 minutes in last night and had to quit when Lois was getting her coffee in desaturated slow motion to operatically sad music in the rain. I'm sure this will be a more cohesive movie for not being Frankenstein'd together from two directors with diametrically opposing visions (Whedon was literally coming off a movie that was in part a critique of Zack Snyder's Superman movie!), but I'm still highly skeptical it will be substantively improved and not just Zack Snyder's epic slow motion version of essentially the same bad plot (same writer as The Rise of Skywalker, folks). Anyway, I'll watch more, but I get the impression this thing is really just for true believers, and for the rest of us it's merely the bizarre novelty of restoring something that was mediocre in the first place. What a cinema franchise where even the hardcore fans feel that every movie needs to be remade for it to be truly viable. Maybe it's a testament to DC being too big to fail.:shrug:

BTW, the best movie they could probably make out of this would be a behind the scenes documentary about its making, especially if they got any footage of Whedon being a dick and Ray Fisher clearly swearing revenge in his eyes. Only problem is I think we've all heard enough about this to last the rest of our lives.


Update: An hour in now, just to PART 3. So far it's gotten better than some of the opening awkwardness (the first couple of scenes are cringey, and the Wonder Woman intro was like the platonic ideal of a deleted scene). Steppenwolf 2.0 (or is it actually 1.0?) is a big improvement, and the nicest way I can describe the space this potentially works in is Infinity War meets The Lord of the Rings. We'll see if it can actually pay that off though and not become The Hobbit instead... later. Now it's time for D00M ETERNAL: THE ANCIENT GODS, PART II. :badbone:
 
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I was actually looking forward to this because I kind of like the story of the Internet simping it into existence, but then I saw an interview with Snyder where he made Joss Whedon seem humble. He was actually saying BvS was the highest level cult movie ever made and that it created so much more discourse than, say, Aquaman, etc. I mean, besides the fact The Last Jedi was a much bigger phenomenon by this bizarre metric (and still made big money), that's one insane way to justify your relative failure, "The problem is I'm such an integrity-filled iconoclast. Sure, Aquaman was fun and made a billion dollars, but who cares, did half the Internet hate it!? Now that's how you know TRUE ART!"

BTW, the best movie they could probably make out of this would be a behind the scenes documentary about its making, especially if they got any footage of Whedon being a dick and Ray Fisher clearly swearing revenge in his eyes. Only problem is I think we've all heard enough about this to last the rest of our lives.
I must live inside a bubble because I had no idea about any of the above besides the fans willing this move into existence (Snyder's opinions, Ray fisher, etc). I'm not sure I want to know more about it, other than what you've already mentioned, though...

Update: An hour in now, just to PART 3. So far it's gotten better than some of the opening awkwardness (the first couple of scenes are cringey, and the Wonder Woman intro was like the platonic ideal of a deleted scene). Steppenwolf 2.0 (or is it actually 1.0?) is a big improvement, and the nicest way I can describe the space this potentially works in is Infinity War meets The Lord of the Rings. We'll see if it can pay actually that off though and not become The Hobbit instead... later. Now it's time for D00M ETERNAL: THE ANCIENT GODS, PART II. :badbone:

Yeah, I think I should have mentioned that the movie's hardest part to get through is the beginning, up to and including the Wonder Woman intro. Sorry about that.
 

Fervent Enigma

Loveless
Made it to Part 3 of Snyder Cut and I’m enjoying it so far. There are strong improvements upon the original release and I enjoy the episodic nature of it. I’ve actually always been a fan of Snyder’s larger than life take at action films and this is no exception. I’ll probably finish it tonight.
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
I Iust finished Part 5, and the material is largely fine, aside from those earlier bad examples and Flash's dumb introduction, otherwise, it's better by virtue of everything naturally making more sense because all the nonsensical shorthand from the theatrical cut is expanded on and explained now. BUT, it's still an underwhelming slow burn and not a very exciting or propulsive story for the whole world, and even the multiverse, being at stake, and I doubt the last hour is going to turn the tide (well, we'll see, I feel like there's a big surprise in store given what I haven't seen from the trailers yet).

However they pay it off though, three hours of exposition and multiple origin stories before your third act does not a good movie make. They actually should have split this into a proper miniseries with, like, "the Aquaman episode," "the Cyborg episode," and "the Flash episode," etc, because weaving in and out of these establishing arcs in addition to the plot at large is obviously really cumbersome and naturally in conflict with each individual element. They do about as good a job as possible editing all this shit together, but over 4 hours it's obviously not paced for working in concert, so it's actually lesser than the sum of its parts. The scenes are also merely adequate to well done, it's not like anything is really special or transcendent (if only slo-mo and a pop hymn could make it so), which becomes boring over multiple hours. In any case, some of these stories should been told separately and then naturally converged into this one, but it's like they tried copying the Avengers model in one huge single fucking movie (at least it's much improved from BvS where they tried doing it in one scene of Diana checking out Batman's .mov files of all heretofore unknown heroes =).

Anyway, it's better that this version of Justice League exists than not so we can actually see these characters together in a not completely embarrassing, albeit overlong and kind of boring, package. I'll finish it tomorrow and see if they can blow my mind with the ending so I'm clamoring for the Synderverse to be restored, but if they do that then let him edit this into a real two and half hour movie as it actually would have been and make the rest supplementary material as it should be.
 
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Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Finished it all last night. It was about what I expected so what I said above holds true. The final battle and climax are still underwhelming because they're basically just fighting Steppenwolf in a big empty industrial space and the world doesn't even know we're on the brink, and Superman takes most of the drama out of it save for some cool Flash shenanigans. They do a pretty good job highlighting everyone's vital role in the battle, save for Batman who just seems totally out of his depth compared to the team he built, and this is the case the whole movie. Anyway, again, it was alright but kind of the equivalent of a big warehouse fight at the end of the day. As a matter of fact, the title of Part 6 is an allusion to something having nothing to do with the climax itself, but essentially a future theoretical movie, so even the Snyder cut is preoccupied with looking ahead to something more interesting than what it's offering.

The epilogue was a return to the messy, all over the place exposition of the first half of the film and kind of a bad last impression (the much ballyhooed conversation between awkwardly portrayed versions of two iconic characters is, well, just awkward, and almost completely out of place with the rest of the movie), so in the end we're basically left with teasers for at least two more movies that probably won't exist? Uh, #RestoreTheSynderverse, I guess? =)

The biggest compliment I can give this, more than merely being better than the crappy theatrical cut, is I think it shows there probably is a decent two and half hour Justice League movie somewhere in here, just waiting to be extricated from what should be a separate origin stories anthology. I know they're rolling out more versions onto HboMax; a black and white one for instance (of course :schierke:). They'd be better off also releasing a Snyder "theatrical cut" truly showing what the original movie would have been, which I think would be more definitive than this ALL THE CONTENT assembly-style cut. As it stands, viewers are still left with two suboptimal choices, the butchered theatrical version that's bad, and the new everything-and-the-kitchen-sink cut that's overlong and meandering. So, in a way, we've only come full circle... #ReleaseTheSynderCut!


Actually, forget that, where's the made up JJ cut of Episode IX? Or the completely fabricated Lucas cut!? Or better yet, the not even filmed Trevorrow cut (another filmmaker I don't even like, yet whose supposedly less bad version of a terrible film I yearn for =)! It is an online comic book now, though:
 
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I don't really like superhero movies, it just doesn't do it for me, generally speaking. But I didn't hate the snyder cut, it was a well made fan service movie, and it leans Into that. I can't hate it on those grounds. Much better than the original cut.

Of course I had many issues with it as a movie on its own merit, but I don't care enough to nitpick about every little stupid thing I didn't like. It was enjoyable enough I think.
 
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Oburi

All praise Grail
I haven't seen any of the DC movies and have no desire to watch this new cut but I will say I'm glad it was done and I'm actually surprised it ever came to be in the first place, with the time and money it takes to cobble together a new cut for a movie that wasn't exactly a smash hit. I think it sets a good precedent. I've always felt that studios should stand by the director they very carefully hired in the first place, whether they agree with the vision or not. Especially during production. Instead of getting cold feet and trying to mash together some Frankenstein movie, let the artists do the job you hired them to do and stick by it, sink or swim. Even if it does fail, at least it'll have some integrity. Even for big studio franchise movies, there's always the chance a filmmaker could do something unique and memorable with it.
 
I haven't seen any of the DC movies and have no desire to watch this new cut but I will say I'm glad it was done and I'm actually surprised it ever came to be in the first place, with the time and money it takes to cobble together a new cut for a movie that wasn't exactly a smash hit. I think it sets a good precedent. I've always felt that studios should stand by the director they very carefully hired in the first place, whether they agree with the vision or not. Especially during production. Instead of getting cold feet and trying to mash together some Frankenstein movie, let the artists do the job you hired them to do and stick by it, sink or swim. Even if it does fail, at least it'll have some integrity. Even for big studio franchise movies, there's always the chance a filmmaker could do something unique and memorable with it.
Totally agree, it sets a nice precedent for creative control over movies. Studio interference is almost always terribly detrimental to a movie.

Not necessarily a fan of Zack Snyder either but I'm glad he got to release his completed vision, especially after going through something as awfully tragic as he did. Much love towards him and his creative endeavors.
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
I agree with all of the above, but, considering this is a relatively remarkable and successful feel-good redemption story, they had to remind us which director and studio we're still dealing with here and release the JUSTICE IS GRAY edition! Snyder says this is his true vision for the movie, which is an odd one: calling it IMAX even though it's still most likely to be viewed on phones and tablets, and shooting it in color, with no apparent black & white film contrast or cinematography, and then just completely desaturating it into a flat, opaque square. Gray indeed! It just seems like more superficial epicness filters being added.

Anyway, it's not a big deal, this version will be largely ignored by all but the most clueless dorks swearing it's true cinema art because B&W (eat your heart out, Kurosawa!), but, like a lot of cool scenes in Snyder's movies, it does sort of undermine the larger premise, namely the Snyder Cut's primacy, first by underscoring just how mutable and capricious his supposed vision is, and second by how much WB is willing to clog up their bandwidth with miniscule alternations of "different" versions of four hour movies which apparently still aren't definitive (and suddenly not so special).

Actually, the runtime was about 30 seconds shorter, and I didn't see the supposed new Joker "society" line (dumb idea anyway), so couldn't one just watch the regular edition with the color turned off on their screen? Maybe they uploaded the wrong version! Whatever... Zack, WB, quit while you're ahead already. =)
 
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Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
So glad they removed it dude. Even with it gone, leto is still the worst joker on screen.

Yeah, he is all sizzle and no steak, I can't take him seriously and wish he wasn't in Blade Runner 2049 either because he always takes me out of the movie. I saw him in The Small Things too this year where his affected style actually made thematic sense; mediocre movie though.

Even still, though I didn't think Leto or the scene was particularly effective, I appreciate the gesture of Snyder shoehorning all this in as kind of a last chance make-good on his little cinematic universe and all these performers that thought they were going to be an ongoing part of something big only to be chewed up and spit out by the malfunctioning WB/DC movie machine (which includes pretty much everyone in that scene to some degree). I don't like Leto, but I didn't see the point in hiring him to play the role a certain way only to edit out and humiliate him, even hiring a better actor to simultaneously portray the character in a completely different, Oscar baity, interpretation (remember how insane that was on its face before the Joker film phenomenon overshadowed it?). BTW, what that film was doing, shamelessly copy/pasting 70's Scorsese, was no less phony and pretentious than Jared Leto.

In any case, it was nice of Snyder to make sure Leto wasn't just a shamed one and done, which I actually think Snyder thinks about (for example, he mentioned he didn't want the last thing people remembered about Cavill's Superman to be the bad CGI moustache removal; you can understand why his actors like him). Anyway, credit to him for spreading the redemption wealth here.
 
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I don't like Leto, but I didn't see the point in hiring him to play the role a certain way only to edit out and humiliate him, even hiring a better actor to simultaneously portray the character in a completely different, Oscar baity, interpretation (remember how insane that was on its face before the Joker film phenomenon overshadowed it?). BTW, what that film was doing, shamelessly copy/pasting 70's Scorsese, was no less phony and pretentious than Jared Leto.
I mean it basically was a copy of taxi driver, which everyone has said over and over again. But for me, taxi driver is in my like top 3 films of all time, and my no.1 scorsese. So it was definitely kinda weird seeing joker. I saw it in theaters just before they all shut down and everything went to doodoo. It was entertaining enough, but didn't have any of its own ideas, really. Just taxi driver with a DC coat of paint, except done worse.

Which actually makes me think about something, when I watch older films, I really like how grainy and surreal they are. I'm having a hard time thinking of how to explain what I'm thinking of, but if you've seen a movie from 50 years ago compared to now you probably know what I mean.

An example: if you watch something like alien, or bladerunner, the actual quality of what you are seeing has aged in a way that it almost feels like it hasn't aged a bit. If not for costume designs and some language choices, I probably wouldn't be able to tell they were THAT old. The cinematography and video quality have aged in a way that feels like it hasn't even aged at all. But if you compare it to something like the godfather, or taxi driver, or the good the bad and the ugly, stuff like that. It just feels kinda surreal and beautiful to me.

Maybe it's the difference between film and digital? I don't know. I love movies but I don't know much technical lingo at all.

This isn't a dig on alien or bladerunner either, bladerunner is my favorite sci fi movie of all time. I'm just saying I like the aesthetic of older movies looking that particular way quite a bit.
 

Matteo Metallo

Veritas Non Verba Magistri
Mind you I've never dug deep on what the critics had to say about Joker, but I never once thought about Taxi Driver when I watched it. Now that you mention it I can see the gritty NY aesthetic being lifted, but the character of Travis Bickle and Joker just don't equate with me. Antisocial for sure, but different MO altogether.

Leto played a good role in American Psycho and Dallas Buyer's Club, but I can't say I'm a fan and was put off by all the hype with his role as the Joker.

Maybe it's the difference between film and digital?
I am much more partial to film and definitely believe it enhances the viewing experience, but there are also many variables that play into that. It could be that I prefer films from that era for nostalgic reasons or that creative freedom among directors was higher and thus their true art came through without being overshadowed by profits. However, that's a whole other discussion to have...
 

Dar_Klink

Last Guardian when? - CyberKlink 20XX before dying
As much Taxi Driver as there was you have to see The King of Comedy to get the full picture of what was plagiarized from Scorsese. :troll:

I did enjoy Joker though, no reaaaal interest in watching Snyder League, maybe if I have some boring Sunday I'll throw it on, but I don't pay for whatever streaming service it's on anyway.
 
As much Taxi Driver as there was you have to see The King of Comedy to get the full picture of what was plagiarized from Scorsese. :troll:

I did enjoy Joker though, no reaaaal interest in watching Snyder League, maybe if I have some boring Sunday I'll throw it on, but I don't pay for whatever streaming service it's on anyway.
King of comedy is a close 2nd scorsese favorite for me, such a good movie. Its slept on quite a bit because it doesn't really have the typical scorsese aesthetic but imo it's one of the best movies ever made. Perfectly done satire and character piece.
 

Oburi

All praise Grail
King of comedy is a close 2nd scorsese favorite for me, such a good movie. Its slept on quite a bit because it doesn't really have the typical scorsese aesthetic but imo it's one of the best movies ever made. Perfectly done satire and character piece.
It's got some great performances too. One of Robert De Niro's best. As well as Jerry Lewis and Sandra Bernhard.
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
QqI saw it in theaters just before they all shut down and everything went to doodoo. It was entertaining enough, but didn't have any of its own ideas, really. Just taxi driver with a DC coat of paint, except done worse.

Same, I saw it at the dollar theater on date night and it was surreal for all of the above reasons (not least of which the families that came with small children, etc =).

Which actually makes me think about something, when I watch older films, I really like how grainy and surreal they are. I'm having a hard time thinking of how to explain what I'm thinking of, but if you've seen a movie from 50 years ago compared to now you probably know what I mean.

They have an almost... documentary style quality to them. They're not as slick or visually dynamic, but sometimes that makes them more real.

An example: if you watch something like alien, or bladerunner, the actual quality of what you are seeing has aged in a way that it almost feels like it hasn't aged a bit. If not for costume designs and some language choices, I probably wouldn't be able to tell they were THAT old. The cinematography and video quality have aged in a way that feels like it hasn't even aged at all. But if you compare it to something like the godfather, or taxi driver, or the good the bad and the ugly, stuff like that. It just feels kinda surreal and beautiful to me.

Yeah, movies from the 70s, with the exception of Star Wars, are like different animals. I still get that feel from the early 80s too, those Scott films are still far more methodically paced than today's go-go-go fare (compare action movies like the Road Warrior too, which is pretty slow outside the fantastic car stunts, or fuck, glacial 60s Bond). I feel like that kind of dramatic slow burn build up became a lost art after the 90s. They just don't make them like that anymore, even the talk heavy dramas.

Mind you I've never dug deep on what the critics had to say about Joker, but I never once thought about Taxi Driver when I watched it. Now that you mention it I can see the gritty NY aesthetic being lifted, but the character of Travis Bickle and Joker just don't equate with me.
As much Taxi Driver as there was you have to see The King of Comedy to get the full picture of what was plagiarized from Scorsese. :troll:

It's a pastiche, and though the MOs are different they're definitely riffing on both. I believe Scorsese was even a producer, and maybe even prospective director, at one point but dropped out to be a superhero movie antagonist! :zodd:

I did enjoy Joker though, no reaaaal interest in watching Snyder League, maybe if I have some boring Sunday I'll throw it on, but I don't pay for whatever streaming service it's on anyway.

It's not worth it unless it's free. Having access to HBO Max during the pandemic has been great with WB releasing all their new movies on it though. Next up is Kong vs. Godzilla and then Mortal Kombat. I'm going to see every shitty movie that comes out this year from the comfort of my couch!
 
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Fervent Enigma

Loveless
I recently rewatched Kill Bill, The Good The Bad And The Ugly, along with Django Unchained. Quentin Tarantino is FAR from my favorite director, but I can appreciate the bit of western spice he adds into his films, especially when it comes to the spicy dialogue. It’s so entertaining and jaw dropping when he just catches your attention in the middle of nothing.
 

Oburi

All praise Grail
I recently rewatched Kill Bill, The Good The Bad And The Ugly, along with Django Unchained. Quentin Tarantino is FAR from my favorite director, but I can appreciate the bit of western spice he adds into his films, especially when it comes to the spicy dialogue. It’s so entertaining and jaw dropping when he just catches your attention in the middle of nothing.
The Good the Bad and the Ugly might be my favorite movie of all time. I love spaghetti westerns. Some great movies in that genre.
 
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