PlayStation 5 launch line-up impressions

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
What, a new thread?! Well why not. Here are my feelings on the line-up.


Spider-man 2: Still need to play the first one (which I bought ages ago)
Horizon Zero Dawn 2: Still need to play the first one (which I bought ages ago).
Stray: I'm in.
Deathloop: Same old Arkane shit, but looks good.
RE VIII: Looks good to me!
Demon's Souls remake: Looks good, but not sure I wanna replay it.
Project Athia: My curiosity is picked.
Ghostwire Tokyo: Mayyyyybe.
Returnal: Mayyyyybe.
Pragmata: Ehhhhhh whatever.
Everything else: Ehhhhhh whatever.

Design of the console itself: not stellar but whatever. The price will be the big deal.
 

Lawliet

Awkward Artist
Honestly, I was underwhelmed with the showcase overall. It was filled with too much irrelevant stuff. I mean, I wanted to see more "next-gen" material, something that may give some impression of the console's performance amd so on. Instead we got a whole bunch of games that can run just as well on a ps4 (and this is after some guy talks about how technological limitations are not as big an issue for ambitious projects anymore or something like that).

Still, I was happy to see Demon's Souls, RE8, and Horizon Forbidden West. That Tokyo game looked kind of nice too. Spider-Man should be good, though I'd rather they make a game about another Marvel hero at this point (an Ironman game would be nice). Everything else ranged from meh to slightly interested.

I liked the console design. Wish they'd gotten rid of the touch pad on the controller though, as it pointlessly consumes battery for no reason imo. They also haven't revealed the price. Not sure if that means anything (like they're not comfortable revealing it yet because it may be ridiculous?). We'll see.

Still, I'm looking forward to the PS5. But it's not a good first impression that I'm excited mostly about a remake of all things!
 

Griffith

My posts are better.
In order of interest:


VII_I_AGE Resident Evil 8 VIII VII.I.? - Looks... interesting, lots of potential there, and expanding the RE7 concept to a small village is cool and possibly still focused enough, but I worry it'll get too broad and become a hot mess again, especially from that ending.



Demon's Souls - It seems... off to me, like the vibe, settings and overall aesthetic just ain't quite the same, but maybe that's the new graphical presentation playing tricks on me? I feel sorry for Walter; they continue to make this game as inaccessible as possible despite being the infamous forebear of a renowned action sub-genre owned by the biggest gaming company on Earth (I guess that's the problem, if Sony didn't own it there'd have been a shitty PC port a decade ago =). Only available on systems that cost 599 US dollars! Otherwise, this is sort of too little, too late, isn't it? Like, announce Bloodborne II or DS4 if you want to actually turn some heads. Frankly, this is a remaster of a ten year old game they could have done on PS4 at any time.



Spider-Man 2 - Eh, Miles should have been available in the original, but now we don't get to continue Pete's story? He'll probably show up and be playable at some point, but unless you can switch, which would be really cool, not the optimal setup to keep them separate.



Horizon Zero Dawn 2 Westside Pride - I couldn't even get 30 seconds in without skipping through all the BS, and I played the first one to completion. Maybe I had my fill, or fighting robot dinos is just way better than any of the "big ideas", nature is good, these games sort of grasp or wave their hands at.


Everything else I don't care about, and overall I wasn't impressed visually either. This stuff, at least perceptually, didn't look like some huge jump requiring a new platform. Like, I'd play these games if they were on PS4, maybe (I could probably happily pass on three out of four, and that fourth one is coming to PC), but no must-have system selling exclusives there for me yet.
 
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Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Honestly, I was underwhelmed with the showcase overall. It was filled with too much irrelevant stuff. I mean, I wanted to see more "next-gen" material, something that may give some impression of the console's performance amd so on. Instead we got a whole bunch of games that can run just as well on a ps4 (and this is after some guy talks about how technological limitations are not as big an issue for ambitious projects anymore or something like that).
How can you say that when we were just introduced to the next Rockstar game!

I'd rather they make a game about another Marvel hero at this point (an Ironman game would be nice).
The PSVR is getting an Iron Man game in like 2 weeks.

VII_I_AGE Resident Evil 8 VIII VII.I.? - Looks... interesting, lots of potential there, and expanding the RE7 concept to a small village is cool and possibly still focused enough, but I worry it'll get too broad and become a hot mess again, especially from that ending.
Here comes the BLACK GOO!! :schnoz:
 

Griffith

My posts are better.
Here comes the BLACK GOO!! :schnoz:
From the console trailer even the system itself is really made of black nano goo like from a bad Terminator movie! I thought it looked like a slender X-Box 360 too, and like I said, graphically it appeared more like THE PRESENT OF GAMING than the future.
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
From the console trailer even the system itself is really made of black nano goo like from a bad Terminator movie! I thought it looked like a slender X-Box 360 too, and like I said, graphically it appeared more like THE PRESENT OF GAMING than the future.
Well you know what I think the future is. :slan:
 
Great show. Can't wait for remake of Demon's Souls and Horizon Forbidden West. Console itself hmm, looks cool! I will get used to it probably. I still have my hopes high for new Bloodborne like game out of From Software and Sony studios - aesthetically wise, with similar and maybe even more intense combat with different Lovecraftian, cosmic and gothic horror settings.
 
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Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Decent event, all things considered! They showed a lot of good exclusives, but clearly didn't demonstrate their whole hand. I felt like what was missing in my viewing of the trailers was a justification of a next-generation upgrade. Nothing I saw in the visual fidelity was so significant that it jumped off the screen, screaming YOU NEED 2 UPGRADE. Instead, charging ahead with platform exclusivity is the reason to purchase, I suppose?

Of the games shown, the ones that stood out to me as interesting were Deathloop (even though literally nothing Arkane has done has ever grabbed my attention) and Pragmata. I'm of course down for the Demon's Souls remake (I'm never getting over the oddity of that possessive s in the title), since I never owned a PS3. I'll also add that it's nice that BluePoint is doing it, as has been rumored for years, because they did an excellent and faithful remake of Shadow of the Colossus for PS4.

But none of this adds up to a red hot desire to purchase the console early in its life cycle. I'll probably coast on my recently upgraded PC until the lineup accumulates into something more demanding of my attention.
 
I'm not particularly interested in any of the games they've shown so far, aside from Demon's Souls maybe, as I've never got to play the original either. Right now, what's hard to tell from footage alone and what I'm most curious about (like everyone else apparently) is how the custom hardware and features they've been teasing will influence the actual gameplay experience. From what I've read, the custom SSD and audio chip, next-gen geometry block and ray tracing technology are bound to make a noticeable difference to how immersive and expansive environments can get (open world games will likely benefit the most from these upgrades). The ability to render more visual information faster and smarter has been PC front line stuff up until now, so if they give this thing an accessible price as well consider me impressed.
 

Griffith

My posts are better.
Instead, charging ahead with platform exclusivity is the reason to purchase, I suppose?
The issue to me is the lack of necessity or significant progress. These titles could have been, and some ARE, on PS4, and hardware companies already do Pro or S versions of their consoles where one is basically buying like a marginally upgraded PC, except it's a PC they can now make their future games specifically not run on in order to sell you another upgraded platform, the PS5 in this case. Buy it because, well, fuck you, we already sold you a PS4 but we want to sell this now! I guess I just liked the pitch better when it was purportedly about some sort of necessary or cutting edge progress rather than strictly commerce. I mean, at least let me fool myself. =)

I'll also add that it's nice that BluePoint is doing it, as has been rumored for years, because they did an excellent and faithful remake of Shadow of the Colossus for PS4.
I concur on the SotC remake, and others from BluePoint; this is pretty much their corner now.

Right now, what's hard to tell from footage alone and what I'm most curious about (like everyone else apparently) is how the custom hardware and features they've been teasing will influence the actual gameplay experience. From what I've read, the custom SSD and audio chip, next-gen geometry block and ray tracing technology are bound to make a noticeable difference to how immersive and expansive environments can get (open world games will likely benefit the most from these upgrades). The ability to render more visual information faster and smarter has been PC front line stuff up until now
That's the big question, and the counterpoint to my necessity complaint above is this does relieve the console bottleneck or plateau on developers not only for PS5 but for PC as well because, Valve aside, you're not going to see many heavy hitters investing tons of development money and resources into games that can't run on current generation console hardware to generate revenue. So, whether we're seeing it now or not, it's potentially facilitating the next big advancements to come, including things that will be optimal beyond the PS5 but close enough to run on it.

so if they give this thing an accessible price as well consider me impressed.
That's where I'm really skeptical, but we'll see. Like Walter, I'm going to be taking a wait and see approach until I'm basically compelled to get it by the absolute dominance of its lineup or market position, much like PS4. Otherwise, why would I? I think before the PS4 the last console I bought was a Wii for $50 off eBay to play Zelda: Skyward Sword, and before that the GameCube for $20 from a friend that was moving so I could play Twilight Princess, RE4, REmake, Metroid Prime and half a dozen other used games. That was a good deal!
 
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I've never had a console from around the 360 onward have launch games I must buy. That's pretty normal and if there is something, then that's usually followed by a bunch of nothing spectacular. Anyone remember ps3 and ps4? Never stopped me from buying one, but for myself there are more interesting titles than most next gen systems as a whole. Could be sequels to games I enjoy.

On another note, having another 4k player is a must. That's always a nice deal in retrospect and I've been waiting for this reason. Between the oled and the uhz65 in the basement, I won't have to haul around another player! :)
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
I've never had a console from around the 360 onward have launch games I must buy
That's generally the rule. But Breath of the Wild breaks it, for me.

I think we were talking beyond the launch window of games though, and how this event failed to showcase the value of the console itself. Usually they'd showcase a technology upgrade or feature that makes the case for the next generation compelling enough even without a stellar lineup. But they spent barely any time on the console here. Maybe later along with price, I guess.

That's pretty normal and if there is something, then that's usually followed by a bunch of nothing spectacular
That being said, console architecture and development systems like Unreal have become more developer friendly over the years, which should minimize the learning curve for devs on new platforms. I don't think it's necessarily the same paradigm as it was in the older days of devs not being able to tap the potential of the new hardware until they've had 3-4 years to tinker with it. They should be equipped to straddle the generations and still make this upgrade feel significant.

Let's also not overlook that the last 2 years or so have been pretty slim on first party material. So they've had time to spin up some bangers. Devs have clearly been busy. But what did Sony show us for that time investment other than bizdev?

I think the issue might be that this event was about a splash of new titles. And the new upgrades may be difficult to capture in trailers. Back around GDC, Sony demonstrated how the PS5 hard drive could be utilized in Spider-Man to make a seamless world without any loads. That's tough to show off, I think.
 
That's the big question, and the counterpoint to my necessity complaint above is this does relieve the console bottleneck or plateau on developers not only for PS5 but for PC as well because, Valve aside, you're not going to see many heavy hitters investing tons of development money and resources into games that can't run on current generation console hardware to generate revenue. So, whether we're seeing it now or not, it's potentially facilitating the next big advancements to come, including things that will be optimal beyond the PS5 but close enough to run on it.
That's a good point and one that must be brought up when thinking about the value of the system. Right now it's more potential than anything, but just the limitations it lifts from game developers and the fact that it's future-proof are important aspects. Just imagine if this were the case when they worked on Dark Souls II, we might have actually got the complete visual and atmospheric package (dynamic lightning and environments remaster for Dark Souls II on PS5 when!?).

I think the issue might be that this event was about a splash of new titles. And the new upgrades may be difficult to capture in trailers. Back around GDC, Sony demonstrated how the PS5 hard drive could be utilized in Spider-Man to make a seamless world without any loads. That's tough to show off, I think.
Yeah, it's gotta be tricky to show it all off in full effect, although they did focus more on the games and making cool trailers for them this time around, rather than showcasing the new tech in greater detail, so there's still room for that. What I'm wondering is whether this will be a case similar to ultra-HD resolutions on consoles or early VR kits, which were both things you had to try first-hand to get a clear understanding of why they make a difference and are the next link in the chain. Marketing around this one will be something to look out for.


Here are some sneak peeks of next-gen Demon's Souls I've seen floating around on Twitter:




These are in-game screenshots, and I would say it looks pretty damn good, even for still images. You can tell there are some extra layers to the visuals, which will likely have an amplified effect once you actually play through the game.
 
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Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Yeah, it's gotta be tricky to show it all off in full effect, although they did focus more on the games and making cool trailers for them this time around, rather than showcasing the new tech in greater detail, so there's still room for that. What I'm wondering is whether this will be a case similar to ultra-HD resolutions on consoles or early VR kits, which were both things you had to try first-hand to get a clear understanding of why they make a difference and are the next link in the chain. Marketing around this one will be something to look out for.
Let me be a party pooper and caution you against buying their marketing too literally. The biggest difference with this hardware is going to be in loading times and 3D sound (if well exploited by developers). I don't foresee ray tracing making much of a difference for example. I would also say that UHD hasn't been as big of a deal as HD was back then, with HDR and 60 fps being more significant. As for VR, it's different because it's not just about the visuals or technical aspects, it's another kind of experience.
 

Griffith

My posts are better.
Just imagine if this were the case when they worked on Dark Souls II, we might have actually got the complete visual and atmospheric package (dynamic lightning and environments remaster for Dark Souls II on PS5 when!?).
Here are some sneak peeks of next-gen Demon's Souls I've seen floating around on Twitter:
Those look good, still more Dark Souls 3ish than Demon's Souls to me though (from these and the trailer it even looks like they changed the iconic armor and helmet to look more like that Dark Souls), but speaking of Dark Souls II's infamous prototype, well, we know how that turned out...

Preview:


Reality:


I'm always wary of preview screenshots or images, from any game these days, really. Not just because the final product often changes but too often screenshots seemingly get mixed interchangeably with promo shots that are clearly enhanced, basically project artwork, compared to the actual product. I've observed it with Souls, Nioh, Witcher 3, and probably a dozen others where I just didn't care enough to compare. It's a fine line sometimes where even a selectively picked legit still image can look so good that it's unrepresentative of the actual look of the game in action. To that end these don't look too dissimilar to some of the Dark Souls 3 promo screenshots:







Let me be a party pooper and caution you against buying their marketing too literally. The biggest difference with this hardware is going to be in loading times and 3D sound (if well exploited by developers)
Yeah, they're literally selling something, and the biggest benefit I see is it allows developers to push more boundaries now, but how far that takes them and whether it's going to result in dramatic differences, and benefits, remains to be seen. I don't really care to drop half a grand because it makes it easier for developers not to have to worry about hiding load times or increase draw distance on PS4, etc.:shrug:
 
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I would also say that UHD hasn't been as big of a deal as HD was back then, with HDR and 60 fps being more significant
Most people have no clue about nits, dolby vision, a proper hdmi, etc. They go buy a crap 65" "4k" tv from wal-mart and can't understand how this HDR is an upgrade. Too many new learning curves of tech jargon. Paired together (I don't know how a uhd disc would be worth its weight without hdr) I think it's as dramatic, so long as you are willing to get what you pay for.

With VR, the quick solution would be ps4, but if I ever jump it would have to be worth it in a decent pc set-up.

Regarding to upgrading now vs. later, I'm not getting it. Half a grand isn't much once every 8 years...for anything.
 
Let me be a party pooper and caution you against buying their marketing too literally.
Yeah, they're literally selling something
To be clear, I'm not hyping up their marketing campaigns or anything, in case I was giving that impression. What I was trying to say is that it's gonna be interesting to see how they go about presenting these features further, aside from just generic After Effects montages, in order to give a clearer picture of what they can do. Something like side by side footage or a live demonstration pointing out the improvements, akin to the UE5 demo, for example.

The biggest difference with this hardware is going to be in loading times and 3D sound (if well exploited by developers). I don't foresee ray tracing making much of a difference for example.
I think you're too quick to trivialize the visual aspect. Whatever partial ray tracing they've added probably won't make much of a difference on its own, but combined with the other custom GPU functionalities and the smart storage, there's no question about it. Consider this is the first generation of consoles to implement rendering technologies you could only properly run on expensive desktop components up until now, which is really what this next-gen stuff is all about. It's gonna be a big equalizer for console developers once they learn how to take full advantage of the hardware capabilities.

I would also say that UHD hasn't been as big of a deal as HD was back then, with HDR and 60 fps being more significant. As for VR, it's different because it's not just about the visuals or technical aspects, it's another kind of experience.
I wasn't necessarily making a case for which was more significant. The reason I went with higher resolution as an example is because that's harder to sell to people if they haven't seen what it looks like on a proper setup, and the difference might not be as immediately impressive. HDR and higher frame rates are easier to showcase and appreciate without necessarily trying them first.

Although VR is indeed in a category of its own, the same idea applies to it as well. Some things are more effectively marketable than others, is the point I was making.

Those look good, still more Dark Souls 3ish than Demon's Souls to me though, but speaking of Dark Souls II's infamous prototype, well, we know how that turned out:
There seems to be some dissatisfaction with the atmosphere and art direction. I don't have strong feelings on it, as I didn't get a chance to become accustomed in the first place.

As for Dark Souls II and its tragic development story, that's one of the more extreme examples of a downgrade. Leading into what you said bellow...

I'm always wary of preview screenshots or images, from any game these days, really. Not just because the final product often changes but too often screenshots seemingly get mixed interchangeably with promo shots that are clearly enhanced, basically project artwork, compared to the actual product.
My hope is that this kind of stuff can now be avoided altogether or at least be greatly reduced. I'm not sticking my hand in fire that the game will look just like it does in the previews, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were perfectly capable of it, honestly.

To that end these don't look too dissimilar to some of the Dark Souls 3 promo screenshots.
I don't know about that. Aside from the cinematic camera angles those shots are pretty representative of how the actual game looks if you ask me, and it looks much worse in comparison.
 

Griffith

My posts are better.
Most people have no clue about nits, dolby vision, a proper hdmi, etc. They go buy a crap 65" "4k" tv from wal-mart and can't understand how this HDR is an upgrade.
I can get just as into this stuff as anybody, and did with my new PC and monitor, but when most people can't tell the difference it's because it's probably not that noticable unless you're truly immersed. Like if you have to compare side by side to really see the difference, which might only be subjectively better depending on how you like motion, contrast, and vibrancy displayed, it's not dramatic for most people. Whereas a 40" TV versus a 70" TV literally is a big difference. I wouldn't invest in a nice TV, big or not, anyway because my toddler has decided she likes drawing on them.

With VR, the quick solution would be ps4, but if I ever jump it would have to be worth it in a decent pc set-up.
I've tried PSVR and have a decent PC setup and I definitely wouldn't go for the PSVR if you have a PC that can handle it, and besides the HMD I don't think most games require too much juice unless you want to play Alyx or something.

Regarding to upgrading now vs. later, I'm not getting it. Half a grand isn't much once every 8 years...for anything.
As the biggest money waster I know, speak for yourself. =) Also, it's only been 6 years since PS4 and they sold another, non-amateur PS4, in between so they're coming back with their hands out every 3 years now basically. They technically don't even need to other than... the market's saturated because they won? But you buy the PS5 at launch anyway and three years later the PS5 Pro comes out, except now their making the distinction even more stark and practically speaking it can play games the PS5 really can't handle. That's also not counting the continuing cost of buying new games, which is probably at least another half grand if you're getting anything out of it, and potentially thousands more. I don't mind spending the money if necessary, but I don't like giving it away when they're arguably abandoning a still very viable platform for incremental improvements, and I'm definitely not until they have the actual goods in their library, not just a gaming PC you plug in your TV, especially when they'll have the "real" one out three years later. And again, why isn't that lineup on PS4 again? Oh yeah, they wanted me to buy a new platform to sell me the games on.

To be clear, I'm not hyping up their marketing campaigns or anything, in case I was giving that impression.
Nah, I'm just super skeptical of this shit, looking for anything to scrutinize, but Sony PlayStation is about as close to a sure thing as there is; even if they botch it, it'll be a success and worthwhile. But the last console I didn't buy used was Sega Dreamcast; the burn scarred me for life. =)

Although VR is indeed in a category of its own, the same idea applies to it as well. Some things are more effectively marketable than others, is the point I was making.
I think VRs big thing is plug and play ease of use and making everything compatible for big fat slobs to do it from the couch, which from what Aaz has told me is the gateway AR holds the key to. That's my marketing strategy: BIG. FAT. SLOBS.

There seems to be some dissatisfaction with the atmosphere and art direction. I don't have strong feelings on it, as I didn't get a chance to become accustomed in the first place.
It's a weird thing, because Dark Souls/Bloodborne is the natural progression of Demon's Souls, and this looks like the next step in that progression rather than a super high quality reproduction of that first step. I see too much of its successor's influence rather than the original. It's kind of a catch 22. As I mentioned from the armor design, that looks intentional too, they want this to be seen as the NEXT Souls, not some stupid fucking remaster of an old ass game you'd sell new for $40. I don't know, even just the colors seem off though. DeS is more... beige and desaturated, while everything here looked too bright, vibrant, and blue. This was actually a thing in the SotC remake and they even allowed you all sorts of custom filters, so I wouldn't be shocked to see that here.

My hope is that this kind of stuff can now be avoided altogether or at least be greatly reduced. I'm not sticking my hand in fire that the game will look just like it does in the previews, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were perfectly capable of it, honestly.
That's the trick, if they can make the real thing look as good as the promo shots we're golden, but we gotta see it to know.

I don't know about that. Aside from the cinematic camera angles those shots are pretty representative of how the actual game looks if you ask me, and it looks much worse in comparison.
Depends on how you look at it, technically it is worse of course, but the details in those new shots aren't doing much for me if they're not dramatically altering the presentation in a significant, cinematic or realistic way, like the dynamic lighting in that DSII that could have been, or motion/facial capture. It's the big screen versus the smart screen again and how it's all actually hitting your eye; which at some point becomes the ultimate bottleneck to how much visual fidelity you can practically appreciate. At some point the big picture just needs to look better because my eyes can't even detect all the little details.

Now, on the other hand, something can look great in its time, and even comparable to today without directly comparing, but once you see the difference you can never unsee it. I had this experience recently with MKX and MK11 where I went from kind of preferring the style of X, thinking they were at least comparable (they even use the MKX Reptile model in this game), to it looking worse and worse the more I played 11. I think the biggest difference besides incremental graphical improvements and animation is the faces. There's just no comparison between the two, and once you see it you can't go back.
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
With VR, the quick solution would be ps4, but if I ever jump it would have to be worth it in a decent pc set-up.
The best way to experience VR currently is the Oculus Quest. It's a standalone device, no PC or console needed. It's a better experience than PSVR in every way. And as a bonus it can also connect to a PC by cable to play PC games.

Regarding to upgrading now vs. later, I'm not getting it. Half a grand isn't much once every 8 years...for anything.
That depends on people's financial situation and their priorities.

Something like side by side footage or a live demonstration pointing out the improvements, akin to the UE5 demo, for example.
Don't expect anything as dramatic as that UE5 demo in the future. Microsoft has done some side by side stuff for the loading, and I think Sony might have as well during Cerny's ultra boring tech presentation at the beginning of the year, and that's probably the extent of what a side-by-side comparison will show. Better loading times and slightly finer visuals that don't amount to much unless you're hyper focused on it. By the way, that UE5 demo ran at 1440p with 30 fps, and featured no ray tracing. It did a good job showcasing new UE features, but I found it too focused on Quixel, which is of limited use for AAA titles.

I think you're too quick to trivialize the visual aspect. Whatever partial ray tracing they've added probably won't make much of a difference on its own, but combined with the other custom GPU functionalities and the smart storage, there's no question about it. Consider this is the first generation of consoles to implement rendering technologies you could only properly run on expensive desktop components up until now, which is really what this next-gen stuff is all about. It's gonna be a big equalizer for console developers once they learn how to take full advantage of the hardware capabilities.
I don't think I am. And I mean, you do agree with me that "partial ray tracing" won't make a difference on its own, right? I don't want to get into the technicals of how ray tracing works and the limitations of what's currently labeled that way, but I really don't think it'll matter much for this gen. And I say that as someone using a 2080 Ti. "RTX On" is a marketing gimmick. Now obviously, more powerful/faster components (CPU, GPU, RAM) will allow for better graphics and more objects on screen at once, but I don't foresee that being as big of a deal as, say, moving up from PS2 to PS3. And that will be especially true at first, given that Sony has chosen a strategy of slowly transitioning from PS4 to PS5, with games working on both at first (same for Microsoft). However I do think moving on from HDDs will make for a notable qualify of life improvement. From that perspective, I found the Ratchet and Clank demo to be a good showcase, with seamless world loading.

I wasn't necessarily making a case for which was more significant. The reason I went with higher resolution as an example is because that's harder to sell to people if they haven't seen what it looks like on a proper setup, and the difference might not be as immediately impressive. HDR and higher frame rates are easier to showcase and appreciate without necessarily trying them first.
You know, speaking of that, I'll be curious to see which PS5 games will truly run in 4K at 60 fps. I suspect a non-trivial amount will stick to either an upscaled 1440p or 30 fps, but time will tell.

Although VR is indeed in a category of its own, the same idea applies to it as well. Some things are more effectively marketable than others, is the point I was making.
I got your point, but even within that context I don't think VR is comparable to a bump in resolution. People more easily get visual enhancements without experiencing it than they do "presence". Anyway, like Griff said above, I do think UHD is objectively less of a step up than SD to HD was, especially if you don't go for a much bigger TV. And it'll be even less dramatic when we go from 4K to 8K. It's normal, it's diminishing returns given the amount of information the retina can take. That's also why smartphone screens don't move up to 4K, because it doesn't make a difference at such a small screen size.

As for Dark Souls II and its tragic development story, that's one of the more extreme examples of a downgrade. Leading into what you said bellow...

My hope is that this kind of stuff can now be avoided altogether or at least be greatly reduced. I'm not sticking my hand in fire that the game will look just like it does in the previews, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were perfectly capable of it, honestly.
Misleading trailers and promotional pictures (commonly called "bullshots") are a staple of the video game industry, especially with Sony. Remember Killzone 2? It's not some unfortunate thing they couldn't avoid before.
 
I find myself desperate to play Ratchet and Clank as I liked this series from childhood and was amazed by what they showed at presentation. Want to play Horizon 2, but have still to buy and play throught the first one. I would definetly check out Spider Man 2, but I am not very exited about it, don't think they can improve their gameplay formula and I was pretty bored after all those DLCs. Also I'm quite impressed by the look of indie games trailers, but I am not sure about gameplay, so will wait until I will be able to see it.
 
I think VRs big thing is plug and play ease of use and making everything compatible for big fat slobs to do it from the couch, which from what Aaz has told me is the gateway AR holds the key to.
Plug and play was not really an option 4 years ago, and I would say even today it's still mostly enthusiast territory. Unless people got the chance to try it from a friend or at an event or something most of them would just sleep on it. I'm guilty of that as well as I've been following the VR scene on and off since its reintroduction to the market but never had the ideal circumstances to set one up for myself.

That's my marketing strategy: BIG. FAT. SLOBS.
Remember me after you get rich. :ganishka:

Now, on the other hand, something can look great in its time, and even comparable to today without directly comparing, but once you see the difference you can never unsee it.
To be completely honest, Dark Souls III has never really looked that good, even when it first came out. Graphics weren't exactly the strong point or main focus of any FromSoftware game, so comparing it with this remake which clearly puts much more accent on that aspect of the experience is not ideal.

Don't expect anything as dramatic as that UE5 demo in the future.
Of course not, the engine itself is not even out yet, but they could create something similar to specifically show off how the new features look on a PS5, like graphics manufacturers commonly do.

Microsoft has done some side by side stuff for the loading, and I think Sony might have as well during Cerny's ultra boring tech presentation at the beginning of the year, and that's probably the extent of what a side-by-side comparison will show. Better loading times and slightly finer visuals that don't amount to much unless you're hyper focused on it.
I haven't snooped out Microsoft in a while, but Cerny's tech presentation I had watched almost in full when it came out, and there was no side by side gameplay, which is what I'm thinking of. Taking old and new Spider Man or Horizon and comparing the way they look and run, something like that, although the differences might not be that obvious for those, as they are transitional launch titles, which is why a dedicated demo taking full advantage of the hardware would be a better idea.

By the way, that UE5 demo ran at 1440p with 30 fps, and featured no ray tracing. It did a good job showcasing new UE features, but I found it too focused on Quixel, which is of limited use for AAA titles.
Not surprised by that. As for the Quixel assets, it's their demo after all, it only makes sense for them to use in-house software to make it, but I get your concern.

I don't think I am. And I mean, you do agree with me that "partial ray tracing" won't make a difference on its own, right? I don't want to get into the technicals of how ray tracing works and the limitations of what's currently labeled that way, but I really don't think it'll matter much for this gen. And I say that as someone using a 2080 Ti. "RTX On" is a marketing gimmick.
I'm not putting all my expectations into the ray tracing alone, even though compared to Nvidia's RTX-ON crap which doesn't work properly without optimization and even DXR, games made to specifically run on the PS5 and make use of its GI and RT features might not be too bad actually. As I said though, it's this stuff combined with the other functionalities like the shading and rendering of more detailed assets and textures in real time without sacrificing performance or memory, which is in no small part made possible by the SSD, by the way.

However I do think moving on from HDDs will make for a notable qualify of life improvement. From that perspective, I found the Ratchet and Clank demo to be a good showcase, with seamless world loading.
The seamless loading is significant and will make designing games easier (the Ratchet and Clank gameplay was indeed a pretty cool demonstration of that, now that you mention it), but the custom flash controller will also help on the visual front, as I detailed above, so it's really more than just quality of life stuff.

Now obviously, more powerful/faster components (CPU, GPU, RAM) will allow for better graphics and more objects on screen at once, but I don't foresee that being as big of a deal as, say, moving up from PS2 to PS3. And that will be especially true at first, given that Sony has chosen a strategy of slowly transitioning from PS4 to PS5, with games working on both at first (same for Microsoft).
Raw graphics quality improvements nowadays are hardly ever drastic. The real advancements will be more on the functional side of things, which will influence visual immersiveness in other ways than just a sharper image.

The PS5 will be backwards compatible with the PS4, but not the other way around. The first games will be transitional indeed, but you won't be able to just pop them into a PS4. I might have misunderstood you though, so feel free to clarify.

You know, speaking of that, I'll be curious to see which PS5 games will truly run in 4K at 60 fps. I suspect a non-trivial amount will stick to either an upscaled 1440p or 30 fps, but time will tell.
I agree, that will likely be the case for most AAA titles, especially the ones that choose to utilize the next-gen functionalities. True 4K at 60 FPS is probably gonna be reserved for indie games.

Anyway, like Griff said above, I do think UHD is objectively less of a step up than SD to HD was, especially if you don't go for a much bigger TV. And it'll be even less dramatic when we go from 4K to 8K. It's normal, it's diminishing returns given the amount of information the retina can take. That's also why smartphone screens don't move up to 4K, because it doesn't make a difference at such a small screen size.
Technologically speaking, it's actually a bigger step-up, but because of the diminishing returns you mentioned which I had also wanted to bring up, it's not really perceived as such a revolutionary shift by the general public as HD was in the 90s. If I had to choose what's more important I would go with higher refresh rates and color accuracy rather than pixel counts, but again, this is not why I mentioned Ultra HD in the first place.

Misleading trailers and promotional pictures (commonly called "bullshots") are a staple of the video game industry, especially with Sony. Remember Killzone 2? It's not some unfortunate thing they couldn't avoid before.
In terms of a downgrade due to the wide performance gap between consoles and PC, which is why I brought up Dark Souls II as an infamous example and what we were saying will hopefully not be a problem anymore, that's a different thing. Now, for the bullshit screenshots and misleading promotional material, there's an argument to be made that the better games look on their own, the reasons to embellish them and the amount of embellishments that can be added on top without making it too obvious will also diminish. So even if they are enhanced, the original is probably not much worse.
 
I’m thankful that it seems like this hardware will be very developer friendly. At least that’s what all the dev kit people say. The PS3 and to a much lesser the degree the PS4 were notorious for having architecture that made developing and porting certain titles very difficult. It makes me wonder if MGS4 will ever be re-released. But seeing them able to work with demons souls at least is nice. I always hear it has the best “world” out of the souls games. Makes me wonder how much of a remake vs. remaster it will be? Down that rabbit hole we go again it seems.
 
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