PlayStation 5 launch line-up impressions

Aazealh

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I haven't snooped out Microsoft in a while, but Cerny's tech presentation I had watched almost in full when it came out, and there was no side by side gameplay, which is what I'm thinking of. Taking old and new Spider Man or Horizon and comparing the way they look and run, something like that, although the differences might not be that obvious for those, as they are transitional launch titles, which is why a dedicated demo taking full advantage of the hardware would be a better idea.

This kind of stuff is what I'm talking about. Microsoft did a few of them.

Not surprised by that. As for the Quixel assets, it's their demo after all, it only makes sense for them to use in-house software to make it, but I get your concern.
I mean I have no beef with Megascans, it's just that the average viewer might not understand their limitations.

I'm not putting all my expectations into the ray tracing alone, even though compared to Nvidia's RTX-ON crap which doesn't work properly without optimization and even DXR, games made to specifically run on the PS5 and make use of its GI and RT features might not be too bad actually. As I said though, it's this stuff combined with the other functionalities like the shading and rendering of more detailed assets and textures in real time without sacrificing performance or memory, which is in no small part made possible by the SSD, by the way.
Well it's what I said in the beginning, I think asset loading is going to make a bigger difference than RT or other such gimmicks. Rasterizing isn't going away. Obviously more compute power will make for higher resolution, more FPS, bigger textures and more objects on screen, but in terms of generational gap I don't think that will be as significant as the thoroughput improvements from storage to DRAM to compute.

The seamless loading is significant and will make designing games easier (the Ratchet and Clank gameplay was indeed a pretty cool demonstration of that, now that you mention it), but the custom flash controller will also help on the visual front, as I detailed above, so it's really more than just quality of life stuff.
I don't see how the flash controller will help anything besides getting assets from the NAND to the chip? They have that big 5.5 GB/s thoroughput that allows them to load assets directly, which is great, but that's still all about pumping out more assets faster. Anyway, I think the proper way to look at this is really as a system and not individual components. The point for them was to eliminate DRAM and storage bottlenecks.

Raw graphics quality improvements nowadays are hardly ever drastic. The real advancements will be more on the functional side of things, which will influence visual immersiveness in other ways than just a sharper image.
Isn't that what I was saying? Though I don't know what you mean by "visual immersiveness". For immersion I stick to VR. :iva:

The PS5 will be backwards compatible with the PS4, but not the other way around. The first games will be transitional indeed, but you won't be able to just pop them into a PS4. I might have misunderstood you though, so feel free to clarify.
I'm not talking about disc compatibility but the fact it will take a while for games developed specifically to take advantage of that custom hardware to come out.

Technologically speaking, it's actually a bigger step-up, but because of the diminishing returns you mentioned which I had also wanted to bring up, it's not really perceived as such a revolutionary shift by the general public as HD was in the 90s. If I had to choose what's more important I would go with higher refresh rates and color accuracy rather than pixel counts, but again, this is not why I mentioned Ultra HD in the first place.
How is it a bigger step-up technologically? It's just more pixels. A real technological step-up would be the switch to MicroLEDs. Now that's a big deal. Anyway, we seem to be in agreement that HDR and FPS matter more.

In terms of a downgrade due to the wide performance gap between consoles and PC, which is why I brought up Dark Souls II as an infamous example and what we were saying will hopefully not be a problem anymore, that's a different thing. Now, for the bullshit screenshots and misleading promotional material, there's an argument to be made that the better games look on their own, the reasons to embellish them and the amount of embellishments that can be added on top without making it too obvious will also diminish. So even if they are enhanced, the original is probably not much worse.
There will always be a performance gap between consoles and top of the line PCs, if only because PC parts get updated more frequently and can be priced much higher. And you can be sure misleading trailers and screenshots will keep popping up even with this new generation. But yeah, maybe as graphics get so good it will eventually disappear.

The PS3 and to a much lesser the degree the PS4 were notorious for having architecture that made developing and porting certain titles very difficult.
It's mostly the PS2 and PS3 that were horrible because of their custom chipsets. Once Sony moved to a more PC-like architecture (x86 + Radeon GCN GPU) things got much simpler.

But seeing them able to work with demons souls at least is nice. I always hear it has the best “world” out of the souls games. Makes me wonder how much of a remake vs. remaster it will be? Down that rabbit hole we go again it seems.
I like Dark Souls' world better for what it's worth. Demon's Souls had a hub which connected to separate zones (you teleport to them). It's a great game with a great atmosphere and Dark Souls is clearly its sequel, but as far as the world goes, I'd say Dark Souls wins. I do like Demon's Souls ending better however.
 

Griffith

My posts are better.
*tries to read Aaz's and Victor's posts*

>_<



I would say even today it's still mostly enthusiast territory. Unless people got the chance to try it from a friend or at an event or something most of them would just sleep on it.
My journey there was pretty traditional, I heard all about it from a friend, Aaz, tried PSVR at my brother-in-law's to get my feet wet, then I just needed a game I wanted to play to take the plunge, which I found in Half-Life Alyx. It was as much about the platform as the game though, I'm not sure I would have got Alyx if it wasn't for the high end VR experience it entailed. Was the perfect storm for me. VR needs more opportunities to grab someone like that as it improves ease of use. I actually don't think it's going to be an incremental thing, it'll niche until it becomes a no-brainer overnight because your AR shades let you play VR games in the blink of an eye.

To be completely honest, Dark Souls III has never really looked that good, even when it first came out. Graphics weren't exactly the strong point or main focus of any FromSoftware game, so comparing it with this remake which clearly puts much more accent on that aspect of the experience is not ideal.
Well, not technically speaking, but that's only half the graphical equation and I think the art design for those games, particularly Bloodborne, more than make up the difference and helped make them iconic. Plenty of graphically cutting-edge games don't have anything interesting to show for it.

It makes me wonder if MGS4 will ever be re-released.
Just curious, why MGS4 of all games?

But seeing them able to work with demons souls at least is nice. I always hear it has the best “world” out of the souls games.
I like Dark Souls' world better for what it's worth. Demon's Souls had a hub which connected to separate zones (you teleport to them). It's a great game with a great atmosphere and Dark Souls is clearly its sequel, but as far as the world goes, I'd say Dark Souls wins. I do like Demon's Souls ending better however.
In terms of interconnected world's:

Bloodborne > Dark Souls > Dark Souls II

I think the case for Demon's Souls "world" is it has arguably the largest and most in-depth areas once you travel to them (though not in all cases), therefore one could argue it has the best environments. Plus, all its shit got ripped off and repackaged in later Souls games, so those worlds owe a lot to Demon's Souls as well.

Makes me wonder how much of a remake vs. remaster it will be? Down that rabbit hole we go again it seems.
I'm guessing it'll be a pretty faithful remake based on BluePoint's version of SotC. I wouldn't be surprised if they update the controls to play more like DS3 or better though (with a "classic" option For traditionalists); they'll try to modernize it without fundamentally changing the approach to gameplay. There's actually at least one really cool major addition they could make, especially if they got input from FromSoftware. Who knows though, in a post FF7 Remake world maybe Sony will tell them to make the game twice as big with triple the bosses, "Add Bloodborne material for good measure, we own that too!" :ganishka:
 
Well it's what I said in the beginning, I think asset loading is going to make a bigger difference than RT or other such gimmicks. Rasterizing isn't going away. Obviously more compute power will make for higher resolution, more FPS, bigger textures and more objects on screen, but in terms of generational gap I don't think that will be as significant as the thoroughput improvements from storage to DRAM to compute.
You did mention faster loading times, but seemingly looked at it as more of a quality of life improvement. I expect the increased rate of visual information on screen at any given time to make some sort of difference in how graphic quality is perceived, besides just faster loading of regular assets. In any case, I don't disagree that this is the most significant advancement of the next-gen. The RT and other functionalities could amount to something cool if developed for properly as well, even if they're not exactly generation defining, so we'll just have to wait and see.

I don't see how the flash controller will help anything besides getting assets from the NAND to the chip? They have that big 5.5 GB/s thoroughput that allows them to load assets directly, which is great, but that's still all about pumping out more assets faster. Anyway, I think the proper way to look at this is really as a system and not individual components. The point for them was to eliminate DRAM and storage bottlenecks.
I don't know why I said flash controller specifically, when the buffed up I/O would probably be the main attraction anyway, but whatever. You are right about looking at it as a whole.

I'm not talking about disc compatibility but the fact it will take a while for games developed specifically to take advantage of that custom hardware to come out.
Yeah, that's what transitional implies, but the part about "games working on both at first" confused me a little bit, as that clearly won't be the case.

How is it a bigger step-up technologically? It's just more pixels. A real technological step-up would be the switch to MicroLEDs. Now that's a big deal. Anyway, we seem to be in agreement that HDR and FPS matter more.
I used the wrong word, what I was thinking about is technically (looking strictly at pixel counts). My English comprehension shat the bed after skipping a sleep cycle.

There will always be a performance gap between consoles and top of the line PCs, if only because PC parts get updated more frequently and can be priced much higher.
Naturally, what matters though is that the gap gets sufficiently small for developers to not have to spoil their games. Hilariously enough, PC graphic quality levels might be the biggest offender rather than cross platform porting.

VR needs more opportunities to grab someone like that as it improves ease of use.
Having more serious and fully realized titles like Half-Life Alyx to play could surely raise the interest bar.

Well, not technically speaking, but that's only half the graphical equation and I think the art design for those games, particularly Bloodborne, more than make up the difference and helped make them iconic. Plenty of graphically cutting-edge games don't have anything interesting to show for it.
I was only talking about the quality of the assets (or lack thereof) in the first place, because as you pointed out, the art direction and visual identity are what really matters.
 

Aazealh

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Staff member
*tries to read Aaz's and Victor's posts*

>_<
Haha sorry about that.

VR needs more opportunities to grab someone like that as it improves ease of use. I actually don't think it's going to be an incremental thing, it'll niche until it becomes a no-brainer overnight because your AR shades let you play VR games in the blink of an eye.
Lightweight consumer devices that will allow you to switch from AR to VR on the fly are still a little far off. I think VR adoption will keep growing (it's been slow but steady) over time as ease of use improves and more titles get released. But to the average person who doesn't care much, it might indeed seem like someday it will just explode out of nowhere. In the more immediate future, I think affordable standalone devices like the Oculus Quest are where we'll see the most market growth.

What's striking with VR to me is it's something that's still primarily limited by technological advancement, so using VR today is like having a cellphone in the 1980s. In that regard, we'll see big strides in the next five years as the tech gets better. And of course big titles matter as well. Things are good on that front for now: there's already many great games and more are coming.

I think the case for Demon's Souls "world" is it has arguably the largest and most in-depth areas once you travel to them (though not in all cases), therefore one could argue it has the best environments. Plus, all its shit got ripped off and repackaged in later Souls games, so those worlds owe a lot to Demon's Souls as well.
No argument from me here. Plus it still has some of the best moments in the series in my opinion.

Yeah, that's what transitional implies, but the part about "games working on both at first" confused me a little bit, as that clearly won't be the case.
I can see how that turn of phrase would be confusing, I meant that a good amount of games will be released on both new and old consoles for a while.

I used the wrong word, what I was thinking about is technically (looking strictly at pixel counts). My English comprehension shat the bed after skipping a sleep cycle.
No big deal.

Naturally, what matters though is that the gap gets sufficiently small for developers to not have to spoil their games. Hilariously enough, PC graphic quality levels might be the biggest offender rather than cross platform porting.
Honestly I think that's more of a complaint high-end PC gamers would have, because usually for AAA titles the developers will use consoles as their main performance target, and the "Ultra" graphics settings tend to be minute cosmetic enhancements, at least in my experience. What I'm personally most looking forward to on these new consoles is probably higher frame rates.
 

Griffith

My posts are better.
I expect the increased rate of visual information on screen at any given time to make some sort of difference in how graphic quality is perceived, besides just faster loading of regular assets.
I'm curious about this as well, like how it will conceptually change the way games are designed and presented. Will they be able to create far larger, more active/alive and dynamic environments that fluidly change in real time? Will they be capable of new things I don't even think about because I wasn't aware of the obstacles, will it fundamentally alter the rhythm and pace of games, or will it simply make things easier for developers so they can put their efforts into something else? We'll see.

Having more serious and fully realized titles like Half-Life Alyx to play could surely raise the interest bar.
It would help if every studio released a mainline game in their AAA franchises for the platform, but probably not gonna happen yet. =)

I was only talking about the quality of the assets (or lack thereof) in the first place, because as you pointed out, the art direction and visual identity are what really matters.
Yeah, I figured we were really talking about different things. I'm just a bottom line, "do I like what I see" kinda guy on this stuff, they're free to fool me into thinking it looks good with the sloppiest methods or gimmicks. Recording the pod yesterday Walter and I briefly discussed Bloodborne and why his enthusiasm for playing it waned over its infamous framerate issues, but I didn't even notice them. That isn't literally true of course, but it just wasn't enough to even give me pause considering the rewards the game otherwise had to offer.

Haha sorry about that.
It's ok, I'm growing...



What's striking with VR to me is it's something that's still primarily limited by technological advancement, so using VR today is like having a cellphone in the 1980s.
Good comparison, cell technology obviously wasn't invented with smartphones, but that's when it seemingly became ubiquitous overnight after decades of growth. By the way, I'd been meaning to tell you but forgot on the Pod, but my dad ordered an Oculus Quest!

No argument from me here. Plus it still has some of the best moments in the series in my opinion.
Yeah, including maybe the best ending as you alluded to before, and probably the most mysterious and esoteric lore as well, with connections to later Souls games and even Bloodborne (the whole franchise is just taking place in different realms of Demon's Souls =). There's already a lot of hopeful chatter about restored content that was famously, and quite obviously in-game, cut from DeS. I'll believe it when I see it of course, but there's already a lot of apparent changes in that trailer, from the design of the fluted armor to the Flamelurker (which I didn't even recognize at first), so this won't merely be a recreation with the extra details extrapolated from what's already there, they're augmenting it. I'd be pretty disappointed if they didn't do anything at all with that material.

a good amount of games will be released on both new and old consoles for a while.
Except the one's Sony arbitrarily holds exclusively to PS5. =)
 
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Just curious, why MGS4 of all games?
In terms of interconnected world's:

Bloodborne > Dark Souls > Dark Souls II

I think the case for Demon's Souls "world" is it has arguably the largest and most in-depth areas once you travel to them (though not in all cases), therefore one could argue it has the best environments. Plus, all its shit got ripped off and repackaged in later Souls games, so those worlds owe a lot to Demon's Souls as well.
MGS4 sticks out like a sore thumb as the only mainline MGS game that can be played on one platform. I’ve heard various reasons why it hasn’t been ported. Everything from the PS3 architecture, Sony funding it and product placement. My guess is that Konami just doesn’t see the profit in bothering to port it. They might have to make some small alterations that don’t justify the cost of porting it. I don’t think that they’ve ever come out and officially said why. So people are left to speculate.

I read a bit more into what people say about the Demons souls world. Some consider it more believable. Like all the shortcuts in the palace are doors that open from the inside and not the outside. Which makes a lot of sense for protecting a castle. The shortcuts work seamlessly with the world. That approach is the whole game atmosphere and lore.

I agree the connectivity of the dark souls 1 world (and probably blood borne I haven’t played it) are top notch.

If it does turn into more of a remake, than I’m curious what they’ll bring to the table? Without Hidetaka Miyazaki being heavily involved.

Either way, I’m thankful this will help move, and maybe elevate, the title out of its current difficult to play status.

Now maybe if I write some letters to FromSoftware they will work on remastering/remaking their Lost Kingdoms GameCube games :azan:
 
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Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Good comparison, cell technology obviously wasn't invented with smartphones, but that's when it seemingly became ubiquitous overnight after decades of growth. By the way, I'd been meaning to tell you but forgot on the Pod, but my dad ordered an Oculus Quest!
:isidro: Nice! I've got a list of games to play if he needs one!

Yeah, including maybe the best ending as you alluded to before, and probably the most mysterious and esoteric lore as well, with connections to later Souls games and even Bloodborne (the whole franchise is just taking place in different realms of Demon's Souls =).
Don't forget the fairest lady of the realms!

I'll believe it when I see it of course, but there's already a lot of apparent changes in that trailer, from the design of the fluted armor to the Flamelurker (which I didn't even recognize at first), so this won't merely be a recreation with the extra details extrapolated from what's already there, they're augmenting it.
I was watching the show live and when that trailer came up I told Walter "This looks like the new From Soft game... wait, no, it's... a Demon's Souls remaster?!" as I recognized the bosses.
 

Griffith

My posts are better.
:isidro: Nice! I've got a list of games to play if he needs one!
The ripple effect of your efforts! And sure, I'll pass it along. I'd emphasize games that can be played seated or with less standing movement because he's turning 79. It's never too late. :daiba:

Don't forget the fairest lady of the realms!
Maiden Astraea? Quelaag's sister? Chest ahead!?

I was watching the show live and when that trailer came up I told Walter "This looks like the new From Soft game... wait, no, it's... a Demon's Souls remaster?!" as I recognized the bosses.
I'm really interested to see how far they lean into this being the "latest Souls release" rather than just a remake (not to FF7 levels though, please =). I mean, there's already a good case for Demon's Souls supremacy, so if they basically upgrade everything else this could be really special. My worry though is they end up dumbing down or basically eliminating stuff like World Tendencies. If anything I'd like them refine that and make the differences more stark while clarifying to the player what and how it's happening. Imagine if the world's appearance drastically transformed with your World Tendency. Basically, make World Tendency work like the Moon Phases in Bloodborne or the sun in DS3 except instead of it being a linear progression they can change anytime based on your actions and conditions. I hope they approach this with the intention of keeping what makes Demon's Souls weird and unique intact while adding quality of life enhancements, because if they try to streamline all that stuff to the standard of later Souls they'll just end up remaking Dark Souls 3 basically.
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
The ripple effect of your efforts! And sure, I'll pass it along. I'd emphasize games that can be played seated or with less standing movement because he's turning 79. It's never too late. :daiba:
Well, Star Wars Squadrons is coming in October! Hopefully it's as good as X-Wing vs Tie Fighter.

Maiden Astraea? Quelaag's sister? Chest ahead!?
I'm simultaneously amused and embarrassed that I get these references. But yeah, Saint Astraea stands above them all (or is it below?).

I'm really interested to see how far they lean into this being the "latest Souls release" rather than just a remake (not to FF7 levels though, please =). I mean, there's already a good case for Demon's Souls supremacy, so if they basically upgrade everything else this could be really special. My worry though is they end up dumbing down or basically eliminating stuff like World Tendencies. If anything I'd like them refine that and make the differences more stark while clarifying to the player what and how it's happening. Imagine if the world's appearance drastically transformed with your World Tendency. Basically, make World Tendency work like the Moon Phases in Bloodborne or the sun in DS3 except instead of it being a linear progression they can change anytime based on your actions and conditions. I hope they approach this with the intention of keeping what makes Demon's Souls weird and unique intact while adding quality of life enhancements, because if they try to streamline all that stuff to the standard of later Souls they'll just end up remaking Dark Souls 3 basically.
World Tendencies on steroids sounds good, I have to say. I'm still not necessarily looking forward to this game though. I've already played it and I'm feeling a bit of Souls fatigue to be honest. It'd be fine by me if Elden Ring came out five years from now.
 

Griffith

My posts are better.
Well, Star Wars Squadrons is coming in October! Hopefully it's as good as X-Wing vs Tie Fighter.
That could be good, I'll also recommend he try No Man's Sky in VR since he already has it (and I think he's interested in Fallout 4 as well). Wing Commander is his favorite game series so anything like that is a good choice. I need to pick a VR game to get him for Father's Day now.

BTW, I had to unplug my HMD the other day because for some reason it kept randomly activating the WMR portal during MK11 (last straw was when it happened during a ranked online match =). This had me thinking I should buy extension cables for it so I can easily plug/unplug it from the front, but then I thought if they're long enough I can run them up the wall and off a hook in the middle of the ceiling for a true DIY VR chamber. :ganishka:

I'm simultaneously amused and embarrassed that I get these references. But yeah, Saint Astraea stands above them all (or is it below?).
I should have just called her Quelaan. :slan:

World Tendencies on steroids sounds good, I have to say. I'm still not necessarily looking forward to this game though. I've already played it and I'm feeling a bit of Souls fatigue to be honest. It'd be fine by me if Elden Ring came out five years from now.
Well, you might get your way on that for all we've heard; maybe George RR Martin is still working on the backstory. :carcus: Anyway, it's a question I've asked myself recently with Sekiro, which I wasn't nearly as into as the Souls series, Bloodbourne, or even Nioh, of which I've put at least thousand hours into this decade. It might just be I've had my fill, or it could be Sekiro was different enough, and emphasized a specific style I'm not as into, that my passion for it was relatively lacking. I don't know though, if they brought out Dark Souls IV or Bloodborne 2 tomorrow I'd be all over them at the expense of everything else and doubt I wouldn't finish them and then some. There's only one way to know for sure: I have to sink half a grand or more into a PS5 to play a 20 hour PS3 game! I hope I still like it. :guts:
 
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Not to turn this into the DS remake topic.. But I’ve been reading on how they didn’t have an estus system similar to dark souls does. I’ve heard the DS system is somewhat easy to “abuse” compared to the estus system. I’m wondering what others who played the game thought? Do you think they’ll keep that system or change.
 

Griffith

My posts are better.
Not to turn this into the DS remake topic.. But I’ve been reading on how they didn’t have an estus system similar to dark souls does. I’ve heard the DS system is somewhat easy to “abuse” compared to the estus system. I’m wondering what others who played the game thought? Do you think they’ll keep that system or change.
In DeS you heal with consumables called "grasses," the most similar comparison is probably Dark Souls II with its healing crystals or whatever they were, except these are faster and more effective. You can completely refill your health with a high level one and unlike blood vials in Bloodborne you can carry like 99, plus 99 of all the other types and there's like six varieties. So yeah, it can be abused if you manage to farm a lot of them (that's the trick though) and play carefully; of course, most people die in these games with plenty of Estus left, so if you're disciplined enough to abuse it, you probably don't need to. On the flipside, if you suck, and most of us do to start these games, you can also run out of them. I wouldn't be surprised if they do some kind of tweak to the mechanic, but I don't just want to see them give you an Estus equivalent and make the distinction between this and Dark Souls even less. I guess it depends on if their goal is to release a state-of-the-art iteration of a "Souls game," or retain the unique character of Demon's Souls.
 
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Griffith

My posts are better.
So, nothing we didn't expect for PS5, $399 for digital, $499 for disc, November 12th release, Demon's Souls at launch for $69 (yeesh), and it's also coming to PC and other consoles after a limited time... Wait, WHAT!?


So, at the end of this gorgeous next-gen DeS gameplay trailer it says precisely that, *Not available on other consoles for a limited time. Also available on PC*, then Sony pulled it from their accounts and said it was a "human error" and that it was a PS5 exclusive... but now the question is, is that forever like we thought, or maybe like a year or something? That's an odd error to make if it's just out of thin air, no truth to it at all, the opposite in fact. Sounds more like it was an error to tell people about that while they're trying to sell systems with this game (and what other consoles... PS4? Might as well confirm it for X-Box if they really want to fuck this up =). Anyway, it sure gives me pause. I wouldn't have thought this was coming to any other platforms, but if they don't strongly affirm that it's a lifetime exclusive to PS5 that'll certainly be interesting.

The game looks beautiful too, but hard to tell if it'll feel as good to play. Next gen graphics with last gen gameplay might not mesh well in practice, but changing the formula too much risks messing it up and suddenly this is just another Souls-like instead of the real deal.
 
I’m also a bit confused about their strategy, the new spider man and Horizon Forbidden West apparently also coming to PS4, too.
It didn’t surprise me that many games just won’t be on Xbox (“console” exclusive) because the publishers obviously want the pc sales but I thought exclusives would from now on be PS5 only.

I wish we would've gotten a look on the UI with its new features, maybe that'll be revealed at yet another event.

But at least we got the Void-mobile, new Berserk game incoming:troll:
 

Walter

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So, at the end of this gorgeous next-gen DeS gameplay trailer it says precisely that, *Not available on other consoles for a limited time. Also available on PC*, then Sony pulled it from their accounts and said it was a "human error" and that it was a PS5 exclusive... but now the question is, is that forever like we thought, or maybe like a year or something?
I think the fine print was probably included by mistake. Perhaps the text was a remnant from a previous template as their video team quickly stitched on the bumpers ahead of the event. And as you said, Sony has clarified that it's "Just PS5" ... but what I'm proposing is ... maybe it isn't? :shrug:

There's precedent for PS exclusives to come to PC. They did it with Horizon: Zero Dawn earlier this year, along with Death Stranding and Journey. Of those three, two are first-party exclusives—Death Stranding was a timed exclusive, but was partially funded by Sony, making it a somewhat special case. Most significantly, Sony said just last month that they're going to continue exploring ports of exclusives.

Other than Demon's Souls, I've seen nothing that made me want to buy a PS5. I barely played my PS4. I think the only game I completed on it was The Last of Us — a PS3 game. So my hope, despite all evidence to the contrary, is that in this case they simply lifted the veil too early. Because the best business strategy is to declare this as a console exclusive, bat away any questions about future platforms but keep those hopes afloat, milk all they feasibly can out of one audience, then open it up to a hungry new audience (PC). The worst business strategy is to announce a game is coming to several consoles, and then sit on a timed exclusivity hoping that's a tasty enough lure to move the needle (it isn't). Case in point, I haven't bought Spelunky 2 yet because I know it's coming to PC next week.
 

Griffith

My posts are better.
I barely played my PS4. I think the only game I completed on it was The Last of Us — a PS3 game.
Play Bloodborne you wiener. The Chalice Dungeons are like, uh... Spelunky meets Dark Souls (this may actually be true for all I know =)!? You ain't cool unless you play Bloodborne.

Because the best business strategy is to declare this as a console exclusive, bat away any questions about future platforms but keep those hopes afloat, milk all they feasibly can out of one audience, then open it up to a hungry new audience (PC). The worst business strategy is to announce a game is coming to several consoles, and then sit on a timed exclusivity hoping that's a tasty enough lure to move the needle (it isn't).
Unfortunately for them, they've now initiated the worst business strategy whether it's true or not. And frankly, it seems pretty true:
https://www.pcgamer.com/hell-yeah-the-demons-souls-remake-is-coming-to-pc/ said:
When pressed on whether Demon's Souls is actually a lifetime exclusive to the console or a timed exclusive like Death Stranding, Sony declined to elaborate further, reiterating "Demon’s Souls is exclusive to PlayStation 5."

At least I'm worried it was true but now they WILL make it a PS5 exclusive because more is at stake than just how many total copies of DeS they can sell, though I don't know what sort of deal they have with Bluepoint. Anyway, maybe it's not that big a deal to most prospective PS5 buyers as long as that's still the place to get it for the foreseeable future. Also, it may be the only thing of interest to us, but despite the Souls series nascent mainstream popularity I don't know that a remake of a decade old cult game is the reason millions of people are going to drop $4-500 on a PS5. It just happens to be the only reason I would.
 

Aazealh

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Man, what a blunder. They practically had @Griffith's money and lost it just like that. =) I guess they don't care that much though given the rush to buy it that seems to be happening. Reminds me of the PS2's launch.
 
I'm conflicted between choosing Xbox and PS from next gens. There's a lot of unconfirmed features for PS still like Dolby Vision/Atmos, Xbox is gonna have it.

When it comes to games PS has only slight advantage, I've played Demon's Souls but I would like to play it again, it looks dope on next gen obviously thanks to stronger hardware.
 
There are no exclusives on xbox in the last gen I've wanted that weren't available on steam. Demons souls now. I'm gonna be all over, but then it'll be a bit for anything else. Good for fans of Horizon and MM if they don't want an upgrade right away.

I have atmos in my basement, but dtsx decodes very close for object based movies and attempts games. Highly doubt it matters that much.

Guess that preorder for the preorder from gamestop last year was complete nonsense. Turds.
 
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Griffith

My posts are better.
To me the only choice as of now is if getting PS5 is worth it or not (and right now I'm cancelling the check, Aaz =). The X-Box would need to prove to me its features and services make it more than just an inexpensive gaming PC. Hell, I already have the X-Box app on my gaming PC and like 'bodies said their library is available, which is nice, but not much incentive to plunk down another $500 on an X-Box however nice their sound system is (at this money it better vibrate at the perfect frequency to make me climax). There needs to be some games I desperately want to play that only they have, and a track record of success helps ease worries about future uncertainty, but right now I'm not seeing anything to make me have to jump.
 

Aazealh

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What I just don't understand about Xbox' strategy is they should know that exclusives are what sell consoles. Anyone that's been in the industry, even just as a player, knows this viscerally. For the current gen they ended up in a terrible spot because the corporate C-Suite geniuses decided that financing content wasn't smart and that good hardware and side services would suffice to bring in the customers. Phil Spencer managed to convince Satya Nadella that actually, content does matter, and so they bought all these studios... But aren't willing to put their foot down and give their consoles full exclusives. So I feel like they're in for another fiasco. Sure, the Xbox Games Pass is great value, and gaming on Windows is great too, and their cloud gaming service looks like it's going to steamroll everyone else... But they need to face the facts.
 

Oburi

All praise Grail
Also, it may be the only thing of interest to us, but despite the Souls series nascent mainstream popularity I don't know that a remake of a decade old cult game is the reason millions of people are going to drop $4-500 on a PS5. It just happens to be the only reason I would.
Me too. I didn't buy the ps4 until Dark Souls 3 came out. Like Walter, I've only played a handful of games since then. This gives me pause.
 

Griffith

My posts are better.
they bought all these studios... But aren't willing to put their foot down and give their consoles full exclusives. So I feel like they're in for another fiasco.
Well, whatever madness they have at least they seem to have infected Sony with it!


It's a tale of two companies, one that's seemingly more interested in spending money than making it, and one that's winning this particular battle but seems... somehow desperate for cash? Hmmmm.

Me too. I didn't buy the ps4 until Dark Souls 3 came out. Like Walter, I've only played a handful of games since then. This gives me pause.
Yeah, until recently I only played a few select games a year, and I have to really want it or have it come highly recommended. If there's nothing I'm interested in I'll skip out on multiple generations. The last home console I've opted to get new was... the Sega Dreamcast! =)

The rest have either been gifts, giveaways or ebay purchases, and if purchased it was always to play a specific game or a few, never to have the system. That's just more shit in your house you're gonna want to get rid of one day. Actually, speaking of which, after my PS Now experience I think Microsoft is right that the real threat and future is streaming, just like everything else, but we'll see how long it takes to truly "arrive."
 
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Aazealh

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It's a tale of two companies, one that's seemingly more interested in spending money than making it, and one that's winning this particular battle but seems... somehow desperate for cash? Hmmmm.
I figure they realized it could seriously hurt their launch so they went back to the devs with a big fat check to make these games even more exclusive. Problem solved!
 

Griffith

My posts are better.
I figure they realized it could seriously hurt their launch so they went back to the devs with a big fat check to make these games even more exclusive. Problem solved!
Exactly my fear, whoever fucked up that card may have cost us Demon's Souls remastered on PC. =)

I do hope they still eventually want to bring it to the 100 million plus PS4 owners out there. This would have been a good racket for Sony until someone let the cat out of the bag. :carcus:
 
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