Skullknight.NET Podcast: Episode 78

[Walter]

Episode 78: Elfhelm (Ep. 346) (1h 14m)

We've finally made it to Elfhelm proper, where we meet a character we've been anticipating for more than a decade. Hear our thoughts on this grand reveal, and another huge revelation about the Berserk world.

Timestamps via @Luizao

00:00 Introduction
01:16 Sovereign of the Flower Storm (Gender)
05:36 Character Design
08:45 Ivalera attitude
10:45 Inhabitants of Elfhelm
14:57 Elves and magic users relationship
19:00 Scale of the tree and the origin of elves
21:23 Sovereign vs God Hand
24:13 Chich
25:08 SFS influence on the Gurus
27:22 SFS implication on the current world
30:23 Rosine design resemblance to Sovereign
34:14 Sovereign coloring
36:02 Dark Horse and other mistranslations
40:10 Barytes discussion
50:52 Puck's brothers
54:31 Puck and Magnifico's coup attempt
1:00:56 Magnifico's future
1:05:44 The throne room
1:06:35 Sovereign and Guts' past
1:09:51 Current state of Berserk

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[Androyd]

I anticipate these almost as much as new episodes. Thanks.

 

[Patrick]

Thanks so much, guys!

I can't wait to listen to this on my way to school tomorrow.

 

[Kaladin]

Great podcast as always guys!

 

[Pink-Dark-Boy]

Great podcast, felt enlightened after listening to Guts and his relationship with Barytes, Magnifico and the Vortex being akin to that of a gravity well? May need some clarification on that last one

 

[Walter]

Guts and his relationship with Barytes, Magnifico and the Vortex being akin to that of a gravity well? May need some clarification on that last one

That's one of those comma usage jokes, right?

Aaz explains it on the podcast, but basically if Barytes are indeed the tiny particles that compose evil power, exhibit weight when gathered, and the Idea of Evil is the source of evil power (something we already knew), then suddenly the Vortex of Souls' conical shape is perfectly explicable, and comparable to a gravity well forming around an object exhibiting great mass.

 

[Pink-Dark-Boy]

That's one of those comma usage jokes, right?

Aaz explains it on the podcast, but basically if Barytes are indeed the tiny particles that compose evil power, exhibit weight when gathered, and the Idea of Evil is the source of evil power (something we already knew), then suddenly the Vortex of Souls' conical shape is perfectly explicable, and comparable to a gravity well forming around an object exhibiting great mass.

Ah alright, they do share definate similarities. Thanks for the explanation

 

[Kompozinaut]

I had my suspicions about the implications of barytes and I'm happy y'all validated my notion in this podcast. While I was excited before, this has put me way over the edge. It is really cool how Miura is tying his fantasy world to a little bit of science (I wonder if his development of Gigantomakhia spurred him in this direction?). I cannot wait to learn even more or see how this develops within the story's plot.

Excellent podcast, guys and gal!

 

[Trance]

First post time!

Walter and Aaz's attempts at explaining concepts in general relativity kind of made my eye twitch, but I definitely love the idea of the connection between the human world and its negative emotions with barytes.

A couple of wild speculative ideas:

An event like the Eclipse would draw an immense amount of barytes into one place, and perhaps the sacrifices release the stored barytes for use in obtaining evil power.

The Vortex of Souls takes on the shape of a gravity well, perhaps filled with barytes. Interestingly, the extremal case of a gravity well, a black hole, even more closely resembles the Vortex because it is infinitely deep and acts as a sort of discontinuity in spacetime. The Idea of Evil resides within the bottomless depths of the Abyss, a place that is "filled with all kinds of blurred negative feelings." Is there any connection there?

 

[Aazealh]

Walter and Aaz's attempts at explaining concepts in general relativity kind of made my eye twitch, but I definitely love the idea of the connection between the human world and its negative emotions with barytes.

Thank you. One of the things I find most interesting about it is that Miura seems to have somewhat modeled Barytes' relationship to the other elements around what Æther was historically believed to be. But instead of its connotation of purity and a "clear sky" (or a void), he went for the opposite. I'm eager to know more about how it fits in Berserk's cosmology.

An event like the Eclipse would draw an immense amount of barytes into one place, and perhaps the sacrifices release the stored barytes for use in obtaining evil power.

I'm always cautious when applying partial knowledge to situations we know little about. In this case, I would recommend to not try to completely redefine our understanding of the Eclipse (or other events) around Barytes. I don't think sacrifices work like what you're describing, for example. If you're interested, I plan to dedicate a thread to Barytes whenever I find the time (probably next week).

Interestingly, the extremal case of a gravity well, a black hole, even more closely resembles the Vortex because it is infinitely deep and acts as a sort of discontinuity in spacetime. The Idea of Evil resides within the bottomless depths of the Abyss, a place that is "filled with all kinds of blurred negative feelings." Is there any connection there?

I don't really think the Vortex of Souls resembles a black hole, to be honest. It's always interesting to wonder about things like that (e.g. Could the Idea of Evil be a kind of singularity?), and I have done so before, but we must beware of going too far with unproven ideas. In truth, I made that comment about gravity wells privately to Walter because the visual similarity was interesting, but I didn't really intend to mention it on the podcast.

That's because parallels are often superficial. In this case, my main problem with the comparison of the Vortex of Souls to a gravitational well is that a vortex, a whirlpool, does not need an outside explanation. It makes sense in and of itself. There is an ocean of souls, and there is a vortex in that ocean, in which lies the Idea of Evil. This is a matter of fluid dynamics, not gravity. In fact, in episode 83, the Idea of Evil is shown to be what creates/sustains the vortex (although that isn't canon anymore).

So even if we absolutely must include Barytes in the equation, and even though Barytes play a key role in the way gravity works in Berserk's universe, I don't think there's much to be made of the passing visual similarity between the conceptual representation of a gravitational potential field and that of a whirlpool. Sorry if I'm kind of a hardass here but I'm trying to be clear about what to expect and what's realistic or not.

 

[Oburi]

Thank you all for another great podcast! I must say I really enjoy the addition of Grail to the lineup.

About the puzzling Dark Horse translation "Hanabufuku King", I've had this theory in the back of my mind, at least the way I always imagined it happened.
I first remember seeing the "Hanabufuku King" translation on forums in the early days, and certain members would throw that term around because they didn't know any better. Now I'm sure some members here remember many years ago we had some guy who was something of an outside resource for Dark Horse translators. I don't think he was on their payroll, but he without a doubt gave input to their official translations, despite not reading or speaking Japanese, to our dismay (we have him to thank for things like "groovy"). I've always chalked up this ridiculous translation error to either him, or somebody like him. As Griff said in the podcast, it ultimately is do to laziness or pure negligence on Dark Horse's part. But for my own piece of mind, after seeing how things were done, I can imagine a scenario were some "outside specialist" was looking for a translation for that part (probably browsing sk.net to see if anyone threw out the correct translation) and just kept seeing people throw around Hanabufuku King, and so gave his expert advice to whomever and their it is, in print in our books.

Not that it really matters, but it is amazing how these things happen sometimes.

 

[Aazealh]

I first remember seeing the "Hanabufuku King" translation on forums in the early days, and certain members would throw that term around because they didn't know any better.

Not on SK.net. Puella posted the correct translation on the day Young Animal came out: March 26, 2004.
In fact, I had never seen that translation abomination until someone reported it's what Dark Horse had decided to use.
I think what you remember might be that we used the untranslated title at first (I did for a long while in particular), but the difference is it was "Hanafubuku Ô". Untranslated, not half-translated. And we stopped using it in 2006, so 3 years before Dark Horse released volume 28.

 

[Walter]

I can imagine a scenario were some "outside specialist" was looking for a translation for that part (probably browsing sk.net to see if anyone threw out the correct translation) and just kept seeing people throw around Hanabufuku King, and so gave his expert advice to whomever and their it is, in print in our books.

I remember, but I just doubt that's the case. It doesn't add up. Why would they ask a non Japanese-speaking consultant to do research on how they should translate a name, and then end up using a non-translated name?

I think it was just misguided laziness, or perhaps it was similar to when they were "forced" by the publisher to translate Skull Knight as "Knight of Skeleton."

 

[Oburi]

Not on SK.net. Puella posted the correct translation on the day Young Animal came out: March 26, 2004.
In fact, I had never seen that translation abomination until someone reported it's what Dark Horse had decided to use.
I think what you remember might be that we used the untranslated title at first (I did for a long while in particular), but the difference is it was "Hanafubuku Ô". Untranslated, not half-translated. And we stopped using it in 2006, so 3 years before Dark Horse released volume 28.

Ah yes, that's right.

Also about Puck and his brothers Pick, Peck, Poock and Pock, it reminded of one of my favorite games of all time Suikoden 2, which has well over 100 characters that you can recruit with a good portion of them being secret and difficult to find. Among these are the five squirrels, the first of which, Mukumuku, is obtained pretty early on. Then much much later in the game, you can find his brothers Makumaku, Mikumiku, Mekumeku and Mokumoku, if you're patient. It's pretty silly and they all look the same except for slight variations such as different color capes, but together they can execute a unite attack that's an instant kill (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6tI2kPtACU).

http://suikoden.wikia.com/wiki/5_Squirrel_Attack

I'm holding out hope that Puck and his family will have a chance to fight together at some point, I'm sure they have a coordinated attack of their own.

 

[Aazealh]

I'm holding out hope that Puck and his family will have a chance to fight together at some point, I'm sure they have a coordinated attack of their own.

They must show Isidro the true power of the Elf Dimensional school of swordsmanship.

 

[Trance]

Thank you. One of the things I find most interesting about it is that Miura seems to have somewhat modeled Barytes' relationship to the other elements around what Æther was historically believed to be. But instead of its connotation of purity and a "clear sky" (or a void), he went for the opposite. I'm eager to know more about how it fits in Berserk's cosmology.

I'm always cautious when applying partial knowledge to situations we know little about. In this case, I would recommend to not try to completely redefine our understanding of the Eclipse (or other events) around Barytes. I don't think sacrifices work like what you're describing, for example. If you're interested, I plan to dedicate a thread to Barytes whenever I find the time (probably next week).

I am very interested to hear your thoughts on this subject. I completely understand that there is far too little information to draw any kind of concrete conclusions yet. Honestly though, barytes have provided one of the more interesting things to speculate about in recent memory.

How did you come to the conclusion that he was modeling Barytes' relationship to the other elements around archaic views of the aether? I am aware of that (Aristotelian?) view of Earth/Wind/Fire/Water being the fundamental substances reality is composed of, but not in relation to any aether. Perhaps I am not well-read enough on these topics. If you are going to explain that in a full topic later, don't worry about explaining it here of course.

 

[Aazealh]

How did you come to the conclusion that he was modeling Barytes' relationship to the other elements around archaic views of the aether? I am aware of that (Aristotelian?) view of Earth/Wind/Fire/Water being the fundamental substances reality is composed of, but not in relation to any aether.

It was viewed as a "fifth element" that composed the heavens, from Ancient Greece up until Newton basically. It also bears strong similarities with Quintessence (probably inspired it), which is how alchemists called the fifth element that bound the four others.

 

[JMP]

They must show Isidro the true power of the Elf Dimensional school of swordsmanship.

Thanks for the podcast. It was some good listening! I especially liked the discussion about Barytes, very interesting. I enjoyed your talk about Puck and Magnifico's hilarious usurpation-gone-wrone, too.

 

[luizao]

Very nice podcast!

Timestamps

Episode 346
00:00 Introduction
01:16 Sovereign of the Flower Storm (Gender)
05:36 SFS (Character Design)
08:45 Ivarella attitude
10:45 Inhabitants of Elfhelm
14:57 Elves and magic users relationship
19:00 Scale of the tree+Origin of elves
21:23 SFS vs God Hand
24:13 Chich
25:08 SFS influence on the Gurus
27:22 SFS implication on the current world
30:23 Rosine design resemblance to SFS
34:14 SFS colouring
36:02 Dark horse and other mistranslations
40:10 Barytes discussion
50:52 Puck's brothers
54:31 Puck and Magnifico usurpation plan
1:00:56 Magnifico
1:05:44 The throne room
1:06:35 SFS knowing Guts' past
1:09:51 Current state of Berserk

 

[Walter]

Thanks as always, Luizao! I incorporated that into the OP.

 

[buttonmasher]

Great podcast, folks, as always. It's nice to share this momentus time in Berserk with familiar voices. Life has been crazy busy and I've been completely off the boards since I finally gave up the ghost on the anime, but finally got around to the podcast and thorougly enjoyed it. Podcast speaks DIRECTLY to what makes these boards special - your insights and ability to keep the big picture in focus.

I feel a bit underwhelmed by the episode (Manga, not podcast)only because so much has changed (personally and narratively) since we set out on this adventure. The stakes are bigger than ever, and as much as I want to see Casca restored, there's more in play than ever before. A bit of a backhanded compliment but, because Miura has done so much world building, Casca's restoration isn't my end game anymore. A masterful reveal of the world behind the curtain and yet another notch on Miura's fantasy god author belt.

Thanks for all you do and here's to another 20 volumes!

 

[Aazealh]

Great podcast, folks, as always. It's nice to share this momentus time in Berserk with familiar voices. Life has been crazy busy and I've been completely off the boards since I finally gave up the ghost on the anime, but finally got around to the podcast and thorougly enjoyed it. Podcast speaks DIRECTLY to what makes these boards special - your insights and ability to keep the big picture in focus.

Thanks for the compliments.

I feel a bit underwhelmed by the episode (Manga, not podcast)only because so much has changed (personally and narratively) since we set out on this adventure. The stakes are bigger than ever, and as much as I want to see Casca restored, there's more in play than ever before.

Hehe, we just got started though. Just wait and see, I bet you won't be underwhelmed very long.

 

[Guy]

I apologize for bumping on old thread, but what is the name of the opening song for this podcast?

I would be interested in a thread with all Berserk-related themes if it doesn't already exist.

Thanks!

 

[Walter]

I apologize for bumping on old thread, but what is the name of the opening song for this podcast?

I would be interested in a thread with all Berserk-related themes if it doesn't already exist.

Thanks!

Sure, that's the end of Aria, from the Golden Age movies.