Something I find interesting is the user score through RT. Critically, we’re at 93%. USER score however is sitting at 58% and dropping. This, along with the comments I’m reading, has my expectations quite low now.
I think over time, TLJ will be looked upon kindly. Hell, when Empire came out it didn’t have a quarter of the praise it has today.Salem said:Want.....to.....press.......spoilers....
But really, the fact no one on here is freaking out tells a story. Sometimes we over react with joy and sometimes we know right away we don’t like something. This just has one big “eh, it’s ok” written all over it. Much like the games I’ve played in the last few months (not you, odyssey!) Luke warm is not gonna sit well with my stomach.
I could see that, but I could also see it sharing a fate more akin to the other Jedi and its more mixed reputation, or worse... The Prequels! Time will tell, though.Johnstantine said:I think over time, TLJ will be looked upon kindly.
Yeah, but that's because Empire is one of the best sequels ever and that good. As your own observations note TLJ is not and has little in common with Empire to warrant a comparison besides relative sequential order. I'd also quibble with the idea TLJ has any more of an ending than Empire, which has one of the most memorable climaxes and resolutions in film history despite people focusing on it not ending with a literal explosion like its predecessor and most of its successors (that's part if what makes it better). By contrast, TLJ doesn't go anywhere but where it should have started and a goofy feel good non-sequitor that ties into the least essential part of the movie for better or worse (more reason for that part to exist I guess). Give me the weathered mains staring resolutely out a window any day. Miura should end Berserk that way. =)Hell, when Empire came out it didn’t have a quarter of the praise it has today.
I didn't even think that many questions were raised, more like questionable stuff resulting in questions like, "what's up with the force?" (That's not how the force works =) Anyway, I was sort of counting on this one to get a new story arc into motion, but it kind of reset us to starting positions yet again.Proj2501 said:Hated it. So, so many lingering questions remain.
I've been trying to put my thumb on it, but that about sums up how I feel. Although I'm not entirely disillusioned, I just wish we had more.Griffith said:There's no powerful narrative force propelling it along, it's just sort of existing and reassserting its existence.
but I'm not a fan of where they're going unless Abrams reverses course, "Not so fast."
Yeah, it's like they're admitting you can't really come home again, just create inspiring allusions to that effect. If that was intentional I can almost talk myself into it. =)Johnstantine said:I've been trying to put my thumb on it, but that about sums up how I feel. Although I'm not entirely disillusioned, I just wish we had more.
Spoiler alert:he won't.
Hopefully we get an animated series that centers around Luke post-RotJ, pre-TFA. Clone Wars and Rebels actually feel like Star Wars. I'd love to see a Luke-centric series, but for whatever the hell reason the franchise continually shits all over using him outside of the movies or books. As opposed to the movies, I have a lot of faith in an ongoing series.
That's for sure. For me so far, this new set of films just can't even touch the original trilogy for connection with and believability of characters, the sense of spontaneity and naturalness in the humor, interactions, and plot, and just plain good story telling. For all the money they're throwing at this it just hasn't got the heart and soul those first films possessed. I felt like The Force Awakens set it up with some good potential, but The Last Jedi just didn't do it for me. I really wanted to love it, but a lot of it felt fakey, forced, and therefore flat. There was a lot of junk thrown in there, but little of satisfying substance. I hope Abrams can salvage something decent out of the 3rd installment. I think the acting talent and capacity is there if they would just write a story that would use it effectively. Cut out the junk food overload and get to the meat and taters!Griffith said:Yeah, it's like they're admitting you can't really come home again, just create inspiring allusions to that effect.
Now that's funny!Skeleton said:
Oh man, some of that stuff would sound so much worse in print.Sareth said:I read some spoilers on Reddit that I thought at first were jokes...
What's funny is I ultimately came away with the same feeling: maybe JJ can salvage this, he gets it! That's pretty funny since Rian Johnson was that last hope before he wasn't. =) I don't think it's meant to be, or TFA is the closest thing to it; that was a pretty impressively jam packed yet fast paced action adventure movie with likable characters, Star Wars or not (also co-written by Kasdan and Michael Arndt). If TLJ wasn't Star Wars on the other hand, I'd find little of it independently compellingly (I sure didn't while watching). Though, it might even be more about Star Wars than TFA was, to the point the nuts and bolts of the plot seem secondary and pointless. I'm trying to decide if it was Rian's intention to make some meta Star Wars deconstruction, a lens which makes the movie sort of work, but the rest is so straightforward that's giving him a lot of credit.JMP said:I felt like The Force Awakens set it up with some good potential, but The Last Jedi just didn't do it for me. I really wanted to love it, but a lot of it felt fakey, forced, and therefore flat. There was a lot of junk thrown in there, but little of satisfying substance. I hope Abrams can salvage something decent out of the 3rd installment. I think the acting talent and capacity is there if they would just write a story that would use it effectively.
Nope, and that was the main attraction for me too. Like I said, the fanfic everyone had in their head, including the screenwriters, of him showing up to save the day in the third act of TFA would have been a much more fitting return (but I actually think what they did was better, TLJ just doesn't pay it off properly). Still, it's Luke Skywalker! And they do some interesting things with him regardless, just not what I (or anyone?) hoped. It's like they want him to be bigger than life but then don't know how to reintergrate him into the regular action of Star Wars; like every scene with Luke has to be about "Luke!" and to treat him otherwise is some sort of blasphemy (but he ends up being worse as a result). I think they talked about this making TFA and why they kept pushing his reveal back from the first act to the third to ultimately right out of the movie basically. They would have been better off just ripping off the Band-Aid and sticking him in there so they could move forward with him as a regular character again quicker.ThePiedPiper said:Should I go in with any expectation with Luke?
Grail said:Star Wars cannot be the story of the Skywalkers alone. Star Wars is a story about nobodies saving the galaxy
It had an emotionally manipulative ending to give the audience a cheap release of dopamine. The next movie will just have pictures of puppies and babies holding Yoda plushies during the credits. Nu-Star Wars is for everybody and the whole family! =)It's hard to explain. It just felt good coming out of this movie.
I do remember hearing people 2 years ago wishing Luke did 'save the day', or at least come in right after that one death. I don't think I wanted anything to happen in particular besides having all of the old characters involved.Griffith said:Nope, and that was the main attraction for me too. Like I said, the fanfic everyone had in their head, including the screenwriters, of him showing up to save the day in the third act of TFA would have been a much more fitting return (but I actually think what they did was better, TLJ just doesn't pay it off properly).
Agreed. If this was a different film series, I wouldn't care. In fact, I'd even say the movie was decent. But I hold every bit of SW content to a high standard. It doesn't always have to be legendary in quality, but it needs to use the old characters responsibly.Griffith said:I think they talked about this making TFA and why they kept pushing his reveal back from the first act to the third to ultimately right out of the movie basically. They would have been better off just ripping off the Band-Aid and sticking him in there so they could move forward with him as a regular character again quicker.
Yeah, those are some important ones!MrFlibble said:There were several characters who were ruined in this film.namely Luke and Yoda
I didn't mind the humor, but yeah, there's no scary villain in this movie, and they had the potential for at least two or three here.MrFlibble said:TLJ, for a film that was being marketed as dark and foreboding, had way too much humourGone are the days where the audience were disturbed by a sith lord so ruthless he killed his own subordinates for their incompetence. Now they get to bust a gut as giant angry holo Snoke literally wipes the floor with General Hux
And many more, on a practical level the movie made absolutely no sense.MrFlibble said:By in large the films characters made a lot of really poor decisions, Poe's bravado costs the resistance all of their bomber class ships (which incidentally are far more cumbersome and large than the bomber class fighters they piloted 30 years ago) , all so he can destroy one dreadnought, presumably of many. The first order impotently shoots at resistance freighters without ever considering cutting of their escape route by surrounding them, or destroying the rebel base of Krait using their remaining star destroyers, rather than using a ground force assault, Finns love interest, in an act of self sacrifice, prevents Finn from destroying a battering ram cannon, vital to the First Order's plans. Finn and co, on a mission to recruit a code breaker, instead choose to recruit a shady guy whom they never met, who ends up betraying them in the end anyway.
It's interesting because it really is two competing visions of how to do a modern Star Wars revival, with Abram's representing traditionalism and Johnson a not-quite radical break into freer territory. Frankly, the only way this movie makes sense to me is as an allegory for this argument and a deconstruction of the modern state of Star Wars itself, and a case for the "necessary" rejection of traditionalism. You can see that theme through almost every subplot of the film, old Star Wars tropes and traditions being subverted in favor of a new way that may not be altogether satisfying to old fans at the moment but is arguably inevitableSalem said:After sleeping on this I’m quite a bit more negative. J.J. brought up interesting ideas and Rian has no love for them. I think this is the problem at its core. Where both trilogies originally were Lucas, both good and bad, we have no real direction worth talking about. It’s happening for the sake of happening. Two visions colliding in the middle of the story.