Things that have surprised you in Berserk

Aazealh

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Kentarou Miura had a lot of talents, one of which was his ability to keep things fresh and surprise the reader, even when he had foreshadowed what was to come. This makes me curious to know about things that surprised people when they first read Berserk, elements they didn't expect. It could be the development of the characters, the evolution of the narrative, anything really.

To start it off, I'll list two of the things that immediately come to my mind, one a minor detail, the other a major development. During Guts' fight against Boskone, he reflects on how tough of an opponent he is, and how that fight is more difficult than the one against the hundred mercenaries. But then he recalls his encounter with Zodd and that heartens him (which Boskone notices), because it's not as bad as it was then. All these years later I'm still amazed at what a thoughtful detail that is.

It just feels so real, like an actual thought someone in that position would have. And it's unusual, because the common thing to do when introducing a new enemy in a story is to dramatize it, to say they're the strongest ever (yet), so as to ramp up the tension. But here Miura defuses it somewhat by having Guts calm himself. Of course it's countered right afterwards by the fact Guts' sword breaks, and then is capped by Zodd intervening in the fight. A brilliant sequence from beginning to end.

My second example is the advent of Fantasia. By the time that battle occurred, I had been telling people for years and years that there was more to Griffith's objectives than just retaking Midland. I'd explained countless times that as a member of the God Hand, as their vanguard into the corporeal world, there was no way he merely wanted to take the crown as if he were still human. There had to be more to it than that, there had to be a bigger plan.

But for all that I understood and had anticipated, I didn't quite know what was in store, nor what form it would take. From Ganishka's final, gigantic form to the Great Wave of the Astral World, I didn't expect the sheer magnitude of the events that took place, nor the extent to which the world would be changed. It's a great example of the limits of conjecture, and how a skilled storyteller can surprise and delight even though he's hinted at what's to come.

There are many more examples I could give, but now I'd like to hear from you!
 
Great thread idea.

The one that comes immediately to mind for me is something I talked about during our re-read of Vol 27: How Miura created an apostle vs apostle (and God Hand) scenario, and how that despite it being a middle chapter of sorts, it still plays out so unexpectedly.

I think Ganishka often gets short shrift in discussions, because he was always a pawn; not only unable to escape the grasp of the God Hand, but ultimately used as a tool to achieve their ends. But this was a mad scientist + apostle + emperor, who for a time led a kind of apostle rebellion that seemed very unrepredictable. He had an inside knowledge of the God Hand, willfully fighting against their inertia, and he even (for a split second) invites Guts to join him.

Another is the Corridor of Dreams sequence. We knew Casca was going to have her mind restored. But we didn't know what that process was going to be like, or what the result would be. The sequence also serves to introduce the true Casca (and her relationship with Guts) to Schierke and Farnese, so that when they're all reunited again in the real world, they're familiar. Which was a welcome (and unexpected!) touch to what in another creator's hands might have simply been a compressed flashback sequence.

From Ganishka's final, gigantic form to the Great Wave of the Astral World, I didn't expect the sheer magnitude of the events that took place, nor the extent to which the world would be changed. It's a great example of the limits of conjecture, and how a skilled storyteller can surprise and delight even though he's hinted at what's to come.
What's most galling to me in retrospect, having seen these episodes come out one by one, is that Miura telegraphed what would occur to the world through the events in and around Enoch Village. Schierke even addressed the world having begun to change when they're in the Qliphoth, addressing the reason for the incursion of astral creatures. But we STILL didn't make the obvious conclusion: That rift would continue to grow, creating a scenario of "Enoch writ large."

Another interesting aspect is the sequence of events: A) Flora's Mansion (where we are explained the overlapping worlds) -> B) Enoch (where we see the result of astral creatures spilling over into the corporeal world) -> C) Qliphoth (the source of the incursion) -> D) Flora's Mansion. That sequence ended with Flora's tree being burned down, which was one of the prerequisites for the World Spiral Tree's emergence, and thus, solidifying that state of the world we just got a preview of. It seems elementary looking back, but we couldn't see the bigger picture, that Miura was subtextually laying out how the world would change and why.
 
I had the privilege of experiencing Berserk without the many, many spoilers that existed by the time I got into it. So the number of things that surprised me is quite uncountable.

The first surprise that comes to mind is Skull Knight’s introduction. He came out of nowhere and I had never seen nor heard about him before since I managed to dodge the spoilers. I thought Guts was fucked, that Skully was one of the bad guys. That he turned out the opposite was quite surprising. From the initial warning he gave to Guts, to saving him on many occasions, to being a mentor-like figure at times, Skull Knight defied first impressions by quite a margin!

In fact, defying first impressions is one of Miura’s strongest merits. It applies to many: Guts turned out far deeper and more tragic and sympathetic than his first impression as the Black Swordsman gives. Farnese is one of the best examples of this too. And Puck, my favorite character, is shown initially as a mostly serious, compassionate figure, which was natural considering his circumstances. I didn’t expect him to turn out to be the mischievous little shit he is when he finally got to chill more later on.
 
It may seem commonplace, but the episodes “Confession,” “Wound (1),” and “Wound (2)” are the most emotional part of Berserk. And the part I remember most fondly from the entire manga.

It surprised me because I didn't expect something so sweet, delicate, and deeply moving from such a raw and violent read.

Guts completely naked in front of someone... for me, it was surprising. In these episodes, he was free to be himself. With a person who accepted him as he was.

Wonderful.
 
Rickert bitchslapping Griffith. I think that one elicited a collective gasp from the Berserk fanbase! I honestly thought Griffith would use his charisma to manipulate Rickert, and he would be left emotionally-tangled about the Eclipse. Instead, we get an absolutely badass moment where the youngest remaining Falcon delivers one of the most earth-shattering slaps in manga history.
 
I agree with what everyone has posted so far.

The big one, to me, is the moment that helped set this series apart from other comics in my eyes. It's the scene in volume 3 when Guts cries. We all know the face at this point; it's been memed to death, but it's honestly such a heartbreaking expression. So vulnerable, and almost childlike. Up til that point, we knew Guts was tough as shit, trying to stomp out his sensitive side in order to kill more monsters. But after impulsively saving Theresia and just taking all her threats and insults, there it was: our beast of a black swordman is exposed before our eyes as a human being. This moment was ballsy to me and cemented that I was in for something truly unique. When I first got to this scene, I had already seen the '97 anime, so I already knew Berserk was fucking cool. I kept seeing people say, "Read the manga, read the manga, read the manga," and Guts' tearful face in volume 3 was what signaled to me that I was in for a real masterpiece.
 
It may be really basic, but I went into Berserk via the manga with essentially no foreknowledge, so I was genuinely surprised by the whole concept of the Golden Age Arc. When we first cut to baby Guts I thought it would just be a brief flashback and then we’d pick up where we left off after the Count’s death, but boy was I (gladly) wrong. I remember telling the friend I was borrowing volumes from at the time that, “yeah I just got to the flashback about little Guts,” as if that flashback wouldn’t last till volume 13 and infinitely deepen and improve what was presented in Black Swordsman.

I was also genuinely surprised a few times by how quickly the story would payoff expected set ups. It would set the dominoes and then topple them way sooner than I anticipated. For example, Skull Knight tells Guts “the Eclipse will come in 1 year” and I thought oh okay so we have a little breathing room… and then it cuts to 1 year later and it’s coming any day now. Same with after Griffith’s incarnation. Once Guts doesn’t bum rush him the second he spawns in, I expected it to be a long time until the two of them directly cross paths again, but then the Hill of Swords confrontation happens almost immediately. Finally, Griffith showing up on Skellig in 364 was a huge surprise for the same reasons. Now that Casca has been restored, I expected them to have to wrap up their time on Skellig and then travel and who-knows-what-else before Guts, Casca, and Griffith would ever be face to face. In all these cases I felt like I had a grasp on the pacing of major events and was pleasantly surprised by how quickly Miura upped the ante.

Finally, the “Spring Flowers of Distant Days” mini arc (I’m sure that’s not the optimal translation of the title but idk what is) surprised me in just about every way. I never really expected to see young Guts again, and tonally it was so different compared to the pirate chapters that came right before. Personally I wasn’t a huge fan of those pirate chapters in the Boat arc so I was primed and ready for something else entirely, and boy did I get it. I love this mini arc. It was a surprise to be sure, but a welcome one.
 
Hmmm quickly. I'd go with everything surrounding Silat (except continuation obviously).

The fact he survived his fight against Guts was astonishing. It felt good seeing someone not getting trashed by Guts and it was my first clue that somehow he would be important.

What astonished me the most with Silat was his first fight against Rakhsas with the help of Rickert and the tapasa. I was so afraid he would bite the dust against him since well, not a lot of characters fares well against an apostle.

So seeing him fight with that many skills against one of the toughest apostles in my eyes was very surprising and of course satisfying.
 
It's the scene in volume 3 when Guts cries.
I came to the manga spoiler free besides the 97' anime, and this part was such a gut punch (pardon the pun). It was such a fast swing in mood that caught me completely off guard. Every time I recommend the manga to a friend, once he gets to this point I congratulate him for really starting Berserk.

For me, one of the most surprising aspects of the story is the "show, don't tell" approach. Specifically the more philosophical aspect of it. During my first (and second tbh) watching of the 97' anime, the worldview of the characters, and mostly Griffith, left me in awe. But when I reflected on it, I initially thought that these moments were so few and far between.

It took me a good 1-2 years or so (and another rewatch) of the story living in the back of my head to realize that Miura didn't need a grandiose monologue in front of a princess to convey this stuff - it is everywhere if you just open your eyes and look for it.

In hindsight, I'm glad it took me some time to move on to the manga, because when I did I came to understand and appreciate it the way it really deserved to be.

(for the CSM fans - I basically had a contract with the media literacy devil)
 
To me it was corruption of Guts + Casca's child and its consequences. It created a thread of causality that has yet to show its complete effects till date. And the best part is that Griffith/Femto, Godhand and perhaps even God of the Abyss --speculatively-- did not properly understand the consequences. As otherworldly influential, knowledgeable and powerful they were. Otherwise they would have never let it happen. (Or would GotA? I dunno! We do not know GotA's motivations fully yet).

Guts meeting with Casca and their union was not just progression of their emotional journey, something bigger was happening as well. Was it causality's counter-current that this forum and @Aazealh have talked about in past (https://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?threads/causalitys-countercurrent.15946/)? I don't know, we did not get that far for obvious reasons. Their union and conception of Guts's child is perhaps the single biggest initial event going against Femto/Godhand's plan.

Raping Casca was perhaps the last purely "emotional" act of Femto as a hangover of the time when he was Griffith. And that becomes his most fatal mistake, making him extremely vulnerable in otherwise perfect god like incarnation to the point, he has to actually HIDE himself and let Zodd ferry him around secretly while he takes that form BY A FORCE not under his control.

Corruption of Casca's unborn child was something that no one, even Skull Knight fully appreciated. Not even Flora understood this, though she was as knowledgable as they come in universe. And even Flower Storm Monarch Danan did not have a real clue on this matter. Yet, it is the last plot point which we saw fully manifest in the last panel of the last chapter that Miura authored and I am more than certain it would have played out in a grand way had Miura lived.

This is where I am true in awe of Miura's story telling. Imagine the scenario.

Early in 90s he thought about Guts and Casca's relationship, her conceiving of Guts Child.

leads to

Corruption of that unborn child in the last emotional act of supreme evil and misdirected anger by "Griffith/Femto". (Slan's comment was spot-on : I was quintessential basest and lowest human action, supremely evil; done by what is now essentially a godlike demon who just met the only(?) "God" of that universe!). Initially I thought it was another very intimate struggle that Guts have to face and perhaps some kind of protection for Casca.

leads to

Assimilation of Demon child into the body of Femto's reincarnation via Egg of the Perfect World. Infact it happen because Casca travelled to the Holy land and was about to die! Become part of the sacrifice leading to reincarnation. Perhaps a plan of Godhand or Femto? I dont know (or may be I have forgotten that part, I should read it again).

leads to

Reincarnated Femto finding his "apotheosis" and reincarnation has flaws (Hill of Swords fight).

leads to

Femto transforming into child... periodically with Zodd literally have to babysit and ferry him around. whats more, he is always drawn back to Casca.

And none of it was plan of in-universe Gods! Miura's master in building the entire causality chain of events right under the nose of the strongest forces of the universe so inconspicuously that it hits the hardest and those whom it hit are not aware of it. Even though they are literal Gods of the universe! This is masterwork on a very different level! Very very subtle and yet so beautifully and intricately and finely woven into the causal fabric of this story.\

As a comparison, I will compare it to (I know it is very low bar but hey, kill me if you hate it), JKR's Harry Potter. The entire god damned arcana was known to more than one central figure early on. Infact, the final reveal was fine but it was not really this intricate. We all knew, it will be fight to death and a heroic sacrifice. It was very much in your face. Markings, survival of big bad last time etc. This is where Miura shines and surprises me a lot. His plot around moon light child was subtlety in front of us all this time. There may be few items added but its machination were there since Guts and Casca met. They were going to be an item. They were going to have sex. But there was always a much bigger flow under that.

I would have loved to know what was the force shaping this chain. Was it a conscious entity at work? I doubt that. Is it some kind of arcane law of this universe? May be (see : https://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?threads/causalitys-countercurrent.15946/). Is it something totally unknown? Perhaps... We have seen Miura bring in many motifs from western and eastern occults. Was he planning to explain that in forth coming episodes? Perhaps... I don't know obviously but I can see something grand was brewing. Perhaps on the lines of @Aazealh counter current thinking but may be something even more surprising. A thread we did not see the end of.

My own wildest thought on this is ... perhaps... Miura was inspired by something. As eclectic his sources of inspiration were.

paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśhāya cha duṣhkṛitām
dharma-sansthāpanārthāya sambhavāmi yuge yuge
 
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For this subject, there are too many things to list. Since many of them have already been mentioned, I'll just add a bit, focusing on the characters.

When Magnifico first appeared in the manga, I never expected him to become such a character. :sweatdrop: Like Puck said, this kind of character had never been shown in Berserk. I'd even say Magnifico is really a unique character. It represents well Miura's great characterization.

Another surprising characterization is Daiba. It was very unexpected to see him portrayed as such a typical old man who even matched well with Erika. And of course I can't overlook Danan's first appearance. I had imagined ten thousand depictions of the Elf Sovereign but none of them were even a bit close to her character.

In my opinion, Miura's characterization is rooted in the harmonious combination of various traits. Basically, there's no monotonous character. I had long given up on anticipating things in Berserk when Miura was alive. Instead, it was my great pleasure to be SUPRPRISED each time. :guts:
 
Another surprising characterization is Daiba. It was very unexpected to see him portrayed as such a typical old man who even matched well with Erika.
NGL, when I first saw Daiba, I was reminded of this personality.

images-1.jpg


He is a fake "spiritualist/sorceror/mystic". He often talks a lot of woo like they do. Though listening to him is entertaining.
 
What does bhagavad gita verse has to do anything with berserk?
The counter current of causality. When ever god hand and IoE will push order and suppress free will by evil and dark forces, the counter current of causality will bring forth struggler and oppose it. Ofcourse with ample help of others too like elves, like mages etc.

Lemme be honest. Its "out there" kind of analogy.

Geeta itself says (extremely loosely), Whenever it will be too unjust, "I" will come and establish justice and destroy evil.

I in Geeta is God. That being said, one can keep the motif while removing a personal or personified or even conscious form of God. It can be just a property of the world or universe itself.

I think it *might* (emphasis on speculative part here) be the motif Miura took inspiration from.

Again, it does not HAVE to be Bhagwat Geeta itself, there are other texts as well that have this kind of motif but then, that is my speculation, so it is Geeta.
 
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the appearance of Danan. like, I was fully expecting to see a generic elf king, and I feel like that expectation was semi- validated by the mention of hanafabuku, who never actually appears.
 
I know, its just that Danan isn't called hanafabuku. I honestly don't have a problem with it, its just a strange inconsistency.

Danan is absolutely called like that. It's her title. "The Sovereign of the Flower Storm". That's what 花吹雪く王 ("hanafubuku ou") means in Japanese.

You're probably confused by the fact Dark Horse botched that translation when this title is first mentioned, in volume 28. For some incomprehensible reason they had it as "King Hanafubuku", which makes no fucking sense.
 
Danan is absolutely called like that. It's her title. "The Sovereign of the Flower Storm". That's what 花吹雪く王 ("hanafubuku ou") means in Japanese.

You're probably confused by the fact Dark Horse botched that translation when this title is first mentioned, in volume 28. For some incomprehensible reason they had it as "King Hanafubuku", which makes no fucking sense.
thank you for the clarification, I didn't know it was a translation error, and I thought I was going insane. now it makes a lot more sense.
 
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