USO: Special Edition Theory Collection

[Griffith]

Ultimate Strong One: Special Edition Theory Collection

A collaboration of Griffith & Walter

Part 1: The Facts

First, some interesting facts before we get to the theory (If any are incorrect, just say so):

1 - We don't know all of Griffith's feelings, loyalties, or intentions at this point.

2 - Although Skull Knight and Zodd officially oppose each other, they have no personal animosity and even seem friendly towards each other.

3 - Zodd's loyalty to God Hand is lax at best.  He allows Skull Knight, God Hand's biggest threat and Guts, a sacrifice , to escape from the Eclipse ceremony. Zodd serves God Hand because it suits his purposes, but he does not seem to believe in or care about they're cause.

4 - When Zodd was pondering about the identity of the "Ultimate Strong One", he thinks of Skull Knight but then dismisses the idea. He then thought of Guts.

5 - Skull Knight thought he might have subconsciously held back against the Egg-Apostle because of a strange feeling that it needed to live a little longer, but he didn't know why.

6 - The Egg-Apostle's dream was to usher in a perfect world. He gives "birth" to the new Griffith.

7 - God Hand/Idea control man's fate.

8 - Zodd believes that Griffith is the "Ultimate Strong One".

9 - We see Zodd and Skull Knight meet after Skull Knight rescues Luca.  Skull Knight draws his sword and the next time we see Zodd he has transformed, but we never actually see or hear about what took place during their encounter.

10 - The next time either Zodd or Skully are seen is when they show up at the site of Griffith's rebirth. They arrive at the same time as a matter of fact, or you could say they arrived together.

11 - Skull Knight does not attack Griffith at his rebirth even though he has plenty of opportunity.  Also, Zodd does not even seem concerned that Skull Knight will try.

12 - Zodd seems to follow Griffith because he thinks he is "The Ultimate Strong One", not because he is a God Hand Reborn. In any case, it is doubtful that Zodd even knows about the 'once in 1000 year' eclipse.

13 - The significance of the "Ultimate Strong One" is unknown. In other words, its unknown whether or not the concept of an "Ultimate Strong One" is Zodd's alone or shared by others. Also unknown is the "Ultimate Strong One's" purpose, if any.

14 - Zodd's interest, motive and loyalty to the "Ultimate Strong One" are unknown.

15 - Skull Knight's motivations and ultimate goal are unknown.  He has attempted to kill Void, he eats Behelits, he is Zodd's rival, he warned and saved Guts, and he opposes God Hand, or just "evil" in general as said in volume 18.

16 - Skull Knight's initial (in volume 9), and continued interest (in volume 13-14) in Guts is unknown.

17 - "He is the One who Struggles. That's why he was able to survive." - Skull Knight at the end of volume 13. Skully has repeatedly called Guts the 'One who Struggles'. In volume 9, when we first see Skully, it is one of the first things out of his mouth. Again, in volume 18 when Skully appears once again to tell Guts of the coming Eclipse, he calls him 'The One who Struggles' right off the bat.

18 - Almost Fact (This isn't really a fact, it's debatable): The entire philosophy of Berserk seems to be gaining the ability to defy one's destiny or fate : to control one's own life. What someone's particular dream may be, whether it's, "I want to learn how to ride a bike!" or "I want my own kingdom!" is really inconsequential.  In the words of Guts, "It's something you win for yourself." In the words of Griffith, "It's not living just because you were born."

(Not all these facts are essential to our speculations, but many other theories can be drawn from them, so go nuts people!)

 

[Griffith]

Ultimate Strong One: Special Edition Theory Collection

A collaboration of Griffith & Walter

Part 2: The Theories

Rather than fumble around asking rhetorical questions and losing the point like we usually do, we’re just going to state our damn theories, since we’ve already listed the facts that support it.  The way we’re presenting it is a bit strange. We’re presenting it as if it's fact rather than speculation, that's just to simplify things for us.

What is the "Ultimate Strong One"?

The "Ultimate Strong One" is some kind of mythological figure, a legend of one who struggles without aid from Idea, or apostles; seperate from causality. Its purpose, to put it bluntly, is to destroy God Hand or more importantly, Idea.  I believe that both Zodd and Skull Knight were in search of the Strong One. Zodd has been grown tired of his immortality and wishes to die with honor, and he believes the strong one can do this for him.  Skull Knight may have even thought that it was possible he, himself was the one, or it was said (somewhere along his long lifespan) that he was the one, but Zodd didn't concur.  Even if Skull Knight thought it was himself he, like Zodd, was still scouting possibilities, this is what led him to Guts, maybe because of Guts' battle with Zodd or for other reasons only known to Skull Knight. This is also why he rescued Guts, and why Zodd allowed them to leave.

At the rebirth ceremony (volume 20-21) Zodd and Skull Knight meet each other alone.  They do not fight, but instead Zodd convinces Skull Knight that he has in fact found the strong one, and that it is the reborn God Hand.  Skull Knight doesn't like it, but he can't risk being wrong. He agrees not to interfere at the site of rebirth. Then, Zodd and Skull Knight head there together.  So, at this point Skull Knight is allied with Griffith, which of course complicates his relationship with Guts who probably wouldn't understand, believe or even want to hear this "Ultimate Strong One" mumbo-jumbo even if it means the destruction of God Hand.  

Main Points:

The above was kind of a story, one way to fit our theories into the plot. These are our main points and can work with a lot of different theories.

1. The "Ultimate Strong One" is supposed to bring about the end of Idea and free humanity of fate.

2. Zodd and Skull Knight are on the same page.

3. Zodd serves the USO because it can free him from his immortality honorably.

4. Guts, is the One Who Struggles, who will eventually become the Ultimate Strong One, by using only his own power. Griffith cannot be the USO (assuming it is the thing that will cause Idea's downfall) because he has already given in to the power of Idea, his strength is borrowed in a sense.



“The Ultimate Strong One; savior of the sinful black lambs and emissary of the blind white lambs, the one that will bring about an age of dreams.”

 

[MAD]

Zodd is searching for USO so he can destroy Idea and once idea is destroyed Zodd would be released from being and apostle maybe he will die or become human again. The speculation is very well thought of and I think it could possibly be true.

 

[Wereallmad]

Hmm...... some of these statements are just a bit off, this looks like a job for.............

.........Anal retentive man to the rescue!!!!!!!!!

7 - God Hand/Idea control man's fate.

Well, they influence it (heavily). But neither God Hand, nor Idea have "complete" controll over man's fate. At least this is what I understood it to be.

8 - Zodd believes Griffith is the "Ultimate Strong One".

Does Zodd actualy say this? It's most definately inferred, but unless he says it outright, then it's an opinion, not a fact.

12-13 are more or less supporting fact's for this statement, and also really don't qualify as "facts", regardless of how likely they are.

 

[Griffith]

Hmm...... some of these statements are just a bit off, this looks like a job for.............

.........Anal retentive man to the rescue!!!!!!!!!

Ha Ha! It is I, your arch-nemesis; Slippery Weasel Man! (And, I'm an ass to boot ;))

Well, they influence it (heavily). But neither God Hand, nor Idea have "complete" controll over man's fate. At least this is what I understood it to be.

7 - Control can mean to direct or have power over, the same as heavy influence.  God Hand does control fate, they just don’t have absolute control; that would be incorrect.

Does Zodd actualy say this? It's most definately inferred, but unless he says it outright, then it's an opinion, not a fact.

8 – Actions speak louder than words, my friend.  When confronting the Falcon of Light, Zodd said that he seeks only one thing, the Ultimate Strong One.  Afterwards, the Falcon tells him where he can find the (one) thing that he seeks.  Zodd follows the Falcon’s directions and they take him to the site of Griffith’s rebirth, where he proceeds to bow down to Griffith upon meeting him!  By bowing to Griffith, Zodd acknowledged the fact that he believed him to be the Ultimate Strong One, because that’s all he went there searching for.

12-13 are more or less supporting fact's for this statement, and also really don't qualify as "facts", regardless of how likely they are.

12- It may be awkward, but since we used the words “seems” and “doubtful”, it’s admittedly not a fact in the true sense of the word to begin with, thereby, making it a fact, albeit an unorthodox one..  

NOT A FACT: Zodd follows Griffith because he thinks he is "The Ultimate Strong One", not because he is a God Hand Reborn.

FACT: Zodd seems to follow Griffith because he thinks he is "The Ultimate Strong One", not because he is a God Hand Reborn.

See, it’s all in how you word it.  So, don’t worry, with those words in place no misinformation will contaminate the board, as that’s your only concern here.  

13 – Can’t find anything confusing about that statement to explain.  It is simply and truthfully unknown to us. Unless you thought I meant the characters don't know?

Ha Ha!! The power of the Slippery Weasel (and the ass) has triumphed, Anal-Retentive Man, I have defeated you and your ‘corrections’, you amateur Olivier!

-Griffith

P.S. Despite what seems to be an undeniable victory by ‘Slippery Weasel Man’, some changes might still be made to clarify things a bit (I guess we'll call it a draw, so thanks for the info Wereallmad). ;D But in the future everyone, it would be preferred that errors be reported via private IM’s, so as not to clutter the thread with silly debates on what is and isn't a fact (this post for example :-/).

P.P.S. Now, lets get back to the speculations.

 

[Walter]

preach it, bro

 

[Cronus]

You know a post is scary when it was previously edited IN WORD, then posted.  [H]ardcore fans, here.  ;D
I'm going to put my stance on these issues, then get some lunch.

1- Obviously.  He's only said a few things, but the likely direction is from here to go to Midland and hang with Charlotte.
2- Agree.  Rivalries can always be friendly in a way.
4- a) SK stands at least on the same level as Zodd, but Zodd has known him for some time, and may know things about him that he knows will put SK well over the top. b) Guts is the only human in 300 years able to wound him in one-on-one combat if I recall, and that's definitely worth a mention in his book, I'm sure.
6- By offering the world as his sacrifice, of course...
7- *Idea* controls *fate*.  God Hand make sure the threads of causality continue, at least that's what I think.
11- Maybe SK has a way he could 'use' Griffith?
12- Zodd's been with the GH for a while, I'm pretty certain he's not blatantly clueless.
I could probably go on and on, but I won't.  Bottom line: I believe it could go either way.  Just because Griffith was granted a second chance doesn't mean he can't turn on the being that gave it to him.  A nifty counter point here is that since Idea basically pulled some string to make Griffith what he is today, Idea would know that in the future Griffith would betray him(I'm using HIM just for the sake of argument here).  But according to the unpublished Chapter 83, Idea was born of negative emotions/thoughts from humans since they basically lived in Suckassville, Midland.  If Griffith can bring the world united under one empire and things not suck when he takes over, will Idea necessarily be needed anymore?  Idea may not disappear, as he is an astral manifestation of human thought...if human thought changes, wouldn't Idea?  Sure, he wouldn't be the sexy pile of bloody flesh anymore, but hey...
As far as Guts being USO: I think this would be kind of cheesy.  "Hey, mogakumono!(struggler)  The laws of causality just told me you're the USO and you need to save the world and stuff!"  Looking at his character, he survives and continues to fight for his own dream, which I think is the restoration of Casca's memory and ultimately some sort of inner peace.  Whether that inner peace comes from killing Griffith or re-enacting Rurouni Kenshin OVA 3 remains to be seen.  I think that the Skull Knight may believe Guts is the one, if anything simply because of the brand.  There aren't really many other people walking around with a brand on them and surviving and going on as long as Guts has.
Guts' and Griffith's *strengths* are on two sides of a coin.  Which is why I believe it could go either way, but if I had to lean right now, it would be Griffith.

 

[fletch]

Let me start this post by warning that here it is 4am & i cannot sleep. that being said, i shall continue. i have just a couple things to add...
skull knight & zodd "teaming up" is not terribly unlikely, but then again, i have an alternate explanation for why SK didn't attack/interfere at the rebirth ceremony. if zodd had, in fact, told SK about his "encounter" with the hawk of light... well, i hate to imply cowardice in one of the cooler characters of the series, but hey, if somebody had kicked zodd's butt so easily & without even a scratch to show for it in return, i think i'd be hesitant to go against him. besides which, griffith's current abilities as a god hand reborn are totally unknown to us, as well as what exactly the fate of a god hand reborn is, or even really WHAT a god hand reborn is. first, if SK had any sense about him, it would seem wise to first observe griffith's new capabilities to see what he's made of before just rushing into battle with him, even if he didn't take zodd's warning. you know, discretion & valor & such.
anyway, i don't think SK is exactly supporting griffith, he just knew better than to fight him right then. for all things there is a time & a place, & the rebirth ceremony was neither (not to mention, how anti-climatic would it be if the rebirth ceremony ended with SK killing griffith right off the bat? that'd just be sad).
that being said, i have my own take on the USO theory. i don't have too much evidence on this one, but i think it's rational nonetheless.
i think the USO is just a conception of zodd's. that doesn't mean it's not important... it's just a title that zodd will refer to the ultimate victor with. that being said, griffith is just the winner of the latest battles. he may be stronger than zodd & sk & gatts, but who's to say that he will end up being the strongest one of all? gatts may learn to raise his power level a la dragonball... seriously though, griffith is just the big guy of the moment. so yes, zodd is following griffith, but is it because he thinks that griffith is USO? i don't think so, but i may be wrong.
ok, i'm distracted by my roommates' foolery now so i lost my train of thought. but eventually, i'll tie all my various unposted theories together into one... i'll probably just end up restating theories from you guys for the most part, but hopefully i'll throw something original in there too.

 

[Walter]

if zodd had, in fact, told SK about his "encounter" with the hawk of light... well, i hate to imply cowardice in one of the cooler characters of the series

Cowardice? How? note the theory that "Zodd and SK are on the same page" which implies that they were together on finding 'the one' the whole time. Zodd wouldnt be a coward looking for a way out, he would just be helping along his 'colleague' in a sense. One thing Id like to add to this part of the theory: Why would Skull Knight have to be 'told' that Griffith is the USO? I mean, he knew it would be Griffith that would be the one for the 1000 year rebirth ceremony, he even told Guts about it. Was there something 'else' that he couldnt know that Zodd knew?

gatts may learn to raise his power level a la dragonball...

Well, maybe. But If Guts is going to be the USO, I still hold my opinion that it will be for the sole fact that he gained his power BY HIMSELF, and not throught a Beherit,sacrifice, or Idea.

seriously though, griffith is just the big guy of the moment. so yes, zodd is following griffith, but is it because he thinks that griffith is USO? i don't think so, but i may be wrong.

Why else would he have followed him so adamantly after the scene in volume 17? For all Zodd knows, Griffith has just promised him that 'he is the one'.

 

[fletch]

but why would zodd trust griffith on this? something just doesn't seem right about that... i still think zodd has his own agenda that he's following. plus, you even argue against yourself, near as i can tell... you think the USO is supposed to be somebody who gains his power without aide from Idea. griffith didn't do that, so wouldn't zodd automatically discount griffith? basically, i just have trouble with the whole mess...

& i didn't mean that zodd was a coward, sorry, like i said, made the post round 4 or 5 my time. i meant to speculate that, as an alternative to zodd & sk being totally on the same page at the rebirth ceremony, SK might have left griffith alone for other reasons. not zodd.

& the dragonball comment wasn't really serious, & if gatts does become stronger, i agree with you, it'll just be through struggle. after all, he does seem to always get stronger throughout the series. which would, of course, make sense since he's gaining exp & excercising more & such.

this'd be longer, but my girlfriend wants to go to the store & is dragging me along & is glaring at me impatiently so i must leave.

 

[Griffith]

plus, you even argue against yourself, near as i can tell... you think the USO is supposed to be somebody who gains his power without aide from Idea. griffith didn't do that, so wouldn't zodd automatically discount griffith? basically, i just have trouble with the whole mess...

Well, I think it's made perfectly clear that Zodd doesn't know that in this theory?  It’s known that the strong one is supposed to destroy idea, but not how.  Also, I don’t think Guts has to gain any power, it’s all perspiration, he has to keep working, fighting and surviving, not raise his ki or anything.

basically, i just have trouble with the whole mess...

Feel free to disprove it then, I’ll be waiting. ;D

-Griffith

 

[fletch]

course, the problem with that is that miura has all the answers & is a stingy little bastard with them, so nobody can prove nothin. & just for the record, the dragonball reference was made in jest... unless it's the coolest picture ever committed to paper, & accompanied by the most magnificent gore fest ever depicted, AND has a satisfactory explanation, i'd probably kill myself in protest if miura made gatts into a super saijin or had him raise his chi in any inhuman way (though i might just bitterly accept apostle gatts, i most certainly will not accept super elf man gattsu unless it fits the above criteria).

& sorry, i missed that part about the theory, i thought you meant that zodd was supposed to know about the power of USO coming without aide of Idea bit. i was confused about that since i've always assumed the USO was something zodd came up with by himself.

i actually do like you & walter's theory for its evidence & such, it is very well reasoned, i just have some serious reservations about it. of course, i'm picky as hell with theories

oh, & also for the record, i do think gatts is currently lacking in his abilities. true, he stood up to zodd, but not very well. & if griffith is stronger than zodd, & Idea is (probably) stronger than griffith (at least for now)... well, seems to me that gatts needs SOMETHING more, even if it's just a better diet or training regimen or something...

plus, in volume 3, we see gatts try to attack femto, but he fails rather miserably as femto is strongly telekinetic... we also see void perform a nice trick against SK during the eclipse. gatts really doesn't have anything to counter telekinesis or space warps. i mean, the dragonslayer is the coolest sword ever, but... & believe me, i hate to say this... how is it supposed to kill when it can't even connect?

in short: nice theory, i'm just not convinced on all the points yet. & gatts a tune up before he can be the USO

 

[Griffith]

i was confused about that since i've always assumed the USO was something zodd came up with by himself.

That is the simplest and most likely explanation still,  I kind of wish I knew what the Falcon of Light said to the other Apostles…like Locus?

oh, & also for the record, i do think gatts is currently lacking in his abilities. true, he stood up to zodd, but not very well. & if griffith is stronger than zodd, & Idea is (probably) stronger than griffith (at least for now)... well, seems to me that gatts needs SOMETHING more, even if it's just a better diet or training regimen or something...

I don’t think Idea’s power can't be measured like Zodd’s or Griffith’s, I think it’s different…but we’ll see, the nature of Idea and God Hand are still rather unknown to us, but you’re right, physical attacks haven’t worked well (to say the least) in the past.  Anyway, Guts has always been underpowered compared to the opposition, Guts will never be stronger than a transformed Zodd, but physical strength isn’t how he wins battles. Guts always gets the shit kicked out of him against Apostles, but...he always gets back up.

in short: nice theory, i'm just not convinced on all the points yet. & gatts a tune up before he can be the USO

Well, no theory should be taken too seriously, they’re all just different possibilities, and usually Miura is at least ten steps a head of whatever we can come up with.  But I don’t think Guts needs a stronger body to be the USO, if anything he just needs to get his head together.

“GUTTS, LOOK OUT, YUOS GOTZ A FATIL NICK IN YUORS BRAIN!!” -Godo

Thanks Acclimate Solutions! ;D

-Griffith

 

[Wereallmad]

“GUTTS, LOOK OUT, YUOS GOTZ A FATIL NICK IN YUORS BRAIN!!” -Godo

Thanks Acclimate Solutions! ;D

-Griffith

Guts (Guts@midland.net) Quit (Killed (Nickserv (you have a fatal nick in........

aww, fuck it.

 

[White_Hawk]

I kinda hope Gatsu is the ultimate, and that he will cut off everyone's balls, and by killing griffiths the sun will shine again. But, why does that not convince me?

 

[fletch]

you know, i never much thought about gatts actually being able to kill griffith. if he ever did... damn that'd be a sad moment for the series. very cool, though, it'd make for great reading.

almost as good as when charlotte killed griffith, eh?

& as far as what the falcon of light said to the other apostles: come with me, & you get what you most desire. that's pretty much what he said to zodd, i don't see why it'd be much different with the others. well, at least i think that'd be the most likely thing. & i agree with whoever speculated that it'll be most entertaining to watch whatever happens when the apostles realize that griffith is in it for himself & they're not necessarily going to get everything they want out of this bargain.

 

[paradiselost]

...well, then consider a point...

...it's true, Gatts seems to be normal...of course...

...but, what about the elves then? I'm sure that there so much we don't know still of the story...

...this is my opinion...

...Gatts is a part of elf, and this is the reason why he can resist so well to damages that for all the other people couold be imppossible to resist to...

...in my opinion, Gatts is the Ultimate Strong One, or, at least, for Gatts is easier to be that one...'cause I believe he is has part of elf..or he is in a kind of relation with them...

...but, listen again...

...if to be the USO it's necessary to die at the end, like in the movie "Gladiator", for instance?
...why don't, at the end, the "father", Gatts, 'll kill the son, "Griffith", to save all, and the son, "GRiffith", 'll kill the father, "Gatts" at the same time? Diying together?
...like King Arthur and his son in the story of "Excalibur", and in the movie Excalibur, to put down Idea, and an old world?

...all speculation about the USO...

;)

 

[eintrigga]

...if to be the USO it's necessary to die at the end, like in the movie "Gladiator", for instance?
.

;)

oh man, did anyone else thought maximus was a real moron?

being a fan of griffith, it was obvious the right thing to do is swear the pledge of loyalty and then rebel right afterwards...

maximus had the popularity and the power to kill off that bastard by summoning all the army that night and declare that emporer's son (forgot his name) the murderer of the father

and maximus knew that the emporer was murderd too! that pathetic fool! because of his stupidity, he lost his family, his life and many a friends....

 

[paradiselost]

...well, we'll see...

it was only a speculation, I'll send soon others...!

;D

 

[Fishbomb]

oh man, did anyone else thought maximus was a real moron?

;D Don't get me started on Gladiator...

http://www.geocities.com/storm_of_hatred/docs/gladiator.html

 

[paradiselost]

...hey, where did you find it?

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

 

[Fishbomb]

...hey, where did you find it?

Oh... just a website I'm webmaster of... www-storm-of-hatred.com

 

[paradiselost]

...you could work for me then...!!!

;D ;D ;D

 

[Fishbomb]

...you could work for me then...!!!

;D I wouldn't work in the fabulous world of IT if I so was threatened with a slightly pointed stick... I've seen what it has done to my friends. ;)

I am sticking to my nice and cozy little job thanks...

Ahem... wasn't this subject about the USO? *blinks*

Ahem... reread Griffith's revival yesterday, and the more I think about it I think that Zodd is under the impression that Griffith is the USO how should one otherwise interpret the narration when he bows before reborn Griffith...

 

[floydboy]

This is taking something from what Griffith (the admin) said about Zodd and the Falcon of light

If Zodd was taken to the rebirth of Griffith...was there anyone else there at the ceremony? I am relatively new to the manga, so I don't remember. If there was, could that person have the opportunity to be the USO? If there was, why did Zodd assume that Griffith would be that person?

Of course if there wasn't anyone else there at the seremony that could be the USO, this is pointless, but let me know please. Thx.

Also, is it possible to become tired of being immortal? Yes, life does have tedium and seemingly endless moments, but is death a better option? for me, Zodd doesn't want the USO to eventually become mortal or human, but that's just me!

To each his own!