What Are You Playing?

[Lawliet]

Well, it was no The Last Guardian, it also just didn't feel strictly necessary but was done precisely to get illicit that emotional response. So yeah, I'm just a hard-hearted bastard that way, spitting on bums asking for food, etc, "Stop trying to exploit my good nature, you filthy peon!"

I need to lift a page from your book and be tougher then haha.

I assume the scientist "father" either rebuilt/rebooted him or they engage in some kind of culturally encouraged adoption to create familial bonds.

So kinky robot sex is off the table, eh? Hmmm.

Oh hell no, I can't even play Souls and Nioh simutaneously and I play Nioh with the Souls control scheme. I don't even like when dodge/dash is moved to X!

Well, if you ever wanna try some insane shit, go for that combo. I know you can do it, seeing as you're the guy who beat Malenia on level 1, which I still can't comprehend.

I will smash her to a bloody pulp with a giant wheel and laugh gleefully like a madman.

A...Alfred? Is that you? As Hank Schrader once said "All along it was you!"

Don't do it! You'll go mad and commit suicide after!

Now you're talkin'!

Hell yeah

I would actually think Dark Souls II would be more fun with friends, especially with all the bosses and that unique NG+ with more enemies, traps, etc. The only thing is then you're playing Dark Souls II twice in a row.

True, but they didn't want to. That's democracy for ya!

No, didn't that opportunity already pass at the end of August? Yeah, I don't know why they don't just give it the DSIII 1080p 60fps treatment, but for whatever reason it's not happening. Maybe its exclusive PS4 code is too much of a mess, but modders have already gotten the frames that high at least.

Heard a rumor it is being given to Bluepoint to remake, which I don't really take seriously. But after Last of Us, I can't tell anymore.

Anyway, I would have done the first five in chronological order because everything to that point culminates in Dark Souls 3, aka Demon's Souls 5, Bloodborne 2. After that Sekiro is pretty unique and Elden Ring basically is the whole series in one game.

True. It's easy to shift the order, but like we discussed, Bloodborne is the problem child here, making a mess for everyone haha.

I thought it was already credibly leaked: Barbarians of the Badlands, 2023. No mystery as to what it's going to be about.

Woah, I didn't hear about this. Exciting!

Half-Life is pretty dated at this point and will ironically feel like an old school FPS even though it was a game that revolutionized the genre; one might still recognize this today, but ironically its interactive advancements and cinematic presentation will feal like they're in a retro package. Half-Life 2 may be getting closer to that inevitable fate now but I think one can still recognize how remarkably special it was for the time and surprisingly modern still, and I've written at length about Half-Life Alyx; it's the best game you'll never play.

I see. What about from a storytelling standpoint? Worth it? Should I just play 2?

Enough of this revisionist "it was overlooked" history, just play SotN, it's one of the best games ever.

I'm very tempted!

You should try the original Resident Evil game on the PlayStation next. You'll love it.

You're a sadistic man, Aaz. Anyone ever told you that before?


Anyway, back to Rondo of Pain Blood.

 

[Dar_Klink]

Anyway, back to Rondo of Pain Blood.

Look up how to get Maria playable and it'll make the game a lot easier for you but there's a great joy in getting good with Richter.

 

[Lawliet]

Look up how to get Maria playable and it'll make the game a lot easier for you but there's a great joy in getting good with Richter.

I mean, I'm not against difficulty, in fact I love challenging games. Read my posts and you'll see I'm a huge FromSoft whore

It's just that I think difficulty should come from genuine challenge, such as great odds and strong bosses, not from fighting the game itself when it has clunky controls or shitty camera or bad frame rate, and so on.

Anyway, I see what you mean though. I am absorbed in the game, despite all that. Improving little by little until finishing a stage is a familiar and enjoyable experience.

I'm gonna add that I couldn't resist the temptation and I started SotN...and holy shit what a difference! This game is light-years ahead of Rondo. Everything is just...better. Alucard is awesome!

Yeah, fuck Richter.

 

[Aazealh]

I'm gonna add that I couldn't resist the temptation andnl I started SotN...and holy shit what a difference! This game is light-years ahead of Rondo. Everything is just l...better. Alucard is awesome!

It's a much easier game, that's for sure. You should look into Kirby's Epic Yarn next, its difficulty level should match your expectations.

 

[Walter]

Eh, I love how Richter controls. Those moves. That flip! If this was your first Belmont-era CV I can sort of understand that it was frustrating to learn, but that’s how those older games control, and I don’t feel that it’s unfair to the player. And besides that, Richter is the most fluid controlling of them all.

 

[Lawliet]

Eh, I love how Richter controls. Those moves. That flip! If this was your first Belmont-era CV I can sort of understand that it was frustrating to learn, but that’s how those older games control, and I don’t feel that it’s unfair to the player. And besides that, Richter is the most fluid controlling of them all.

Well, I wouldn't call it unfair in the sense that it is deliberately designed to screw with the player (though I can imagine someone else making such a claim). It just feels clunky to me, as an old machine feels clunky to operate. And yeah, this is my first Castlevania if we don't count the Lords of Shadow duology.

(I will add though that there is an argument to be made as to how much it's the game actually being clunky vs how much it's simply the player who has to learn it. I mean, a lot of folks complain about the horse in Shadow of the Colossus, which I can control flawlessly, and I think they just need to learn to ride it. Maybe it's the same case here? I'm not sure yet. It seems to be the former to me, just as how RE4 was shit to control.)

My other frustration is that you get damaged if you so much as touch the frame occupied by enemies, such as when I was killed simply touching the tip of the lance of Stage 4's boss. But as I said above, this is a problem that still exists today, even in my favorite games, so I'm not holding it against Rondo, even if it feels worse here.

That flip is awesome though, not gonna lie.

 

[Walter]

My other frustration is that you get damaged if you so much as touch the frame occupied by enemies, such as when I was killed simply touching the tip of the lance of Stage 4's boss.

Ever tried to hug a goomba?

 

[Lawliet]

Ever tried to hug a goomba?

No idea what that is, I'm afraid.

Edit: Looked it up. Yeah I recognize this thing but didn't know its name. No, I wouldn't hug something like that

 

[Walter]

No idea what that is, I'm afraid.

Edit: Looked it up. Yeah I recognize this thing but didn't know its name. No, I wouldn't hug something like that

Right but that's how most games work, isn't it? In Mario, even if you have good intentions, if you touch an enemy, you lose power. Now, I know that From Soft games allow you to caress all the undead you want to, as long as you don't get in the path of their swing, but in 2D sidescrollers, they don't like to be touched. Are you just saying you aren't used to having to get out of the way of enemies?

 

[Lawliet]

Right but that's how most games work, isn't it? In Mario, even if you have good intentions, if you touch an enemy, you lose power. Now, I know that From Soft games allow you to caress all the undead you want to, as long as you don't get in the path of their swing, but in 2D sidescrollers, they don't like to be touched. Are you just saying you aren't used to having to get out of the way of enemies?

Not at all. I've already said above that this is a recurring thing in modern games too, including my favorite side-scroller Hollow Knight. It also exists in a lot of my childhood games. In other words, I'm used to it, but I really dislike this convention. Personally, I think it's dumb to be damaged by mere physical contact with enemies, especially if the game is not fluid to control, but that's just me.

I played some side-scrollers that eliminated this issue, but they are in the minority.

It's a much easier game, that's for sure. You should look into Kirby's Epic Yarn next, its difficulty level should match your expectations.

OH! I thought you were recommending another sadistic game but then I looked it up and realized I was being roasted HAHAHAHHAHA

Anyway, I barely played SotN to note its difficulty; I was referring to its better controls. In the first place, I never complained about difficulty, you guys turned the conversation about it. My issue was the controls, same as when I played RE4. Difficulty is only a side-effect of shit controls.

 

[Aazealh]

OH! I thought you were recommending another sadistic game but then I looked it up and realized I was being roasted HAHAHAHHAHA

Anyway, I barely played SotN to note its difficulty; I was referring to its better controls. In the first place, I never complained about difficulty, you guys turned the conversation about it. My issue was the controls, same as when I played RE4. Difficulty is only a side-effect of shit controls.

My point was that Rondo of Blood doesn't have "shit controls". That's kind of a ridiculous thing to say. It's just a different game design. I can understand not being a fan of that type of games, they're a relic from the past when arcade dictated many game design rules, but saying they're not well-made is just untrue.

Anyway, Symphony of the Night is indeed pretty easy (but great nevertheless). But you know, I was thinking, you still haven't played Super Metroid, have you? You really should, it's the game that created that whole genre. It's got pretty good controls, too.

 

[Goat]

SoTN OST is something else, top 5 material for me.

 

[Walter]

SoTN OST is something else, top 5 material for me.

Check this out, one of the most technical songs of the soundtrack (most?) performed live by Michiru Yamane herself:

 

[Lawliet]

My point was that Rondo of Blood doesn't have "shit controls". That's kind of a ridiculous thing to say. It's just a different game design. I can understand not being a fan of that type of games, they're a relic from the past when arcade dictated many game design rules, but saying they're not well-made is just untrue.

I hate to be pedantic, Aaz, but I will still say I didn't claim the game itself was bad as a result of the controls, and I did acknowledge that it may just be game design instead of shit controls when I mentioned SotC and its horse as an example.

Anyway, it's not a big deal anymore, really. I've gotten used to the controls by now and I'm enjoying the game, though I won't say I mastered it or anything. I breezed through Stage 4 yesterday and now I'm struggling my way through Stage 5, but I've grown to appreciate the game more regardless.

Anyway, Symphony of the Night is indeed pretty easy (but great nevertheless). But you know, I was thinking, you still haven't played Super Metroid, have you? You really should, it's the game that created that whole genre. It's got pretty good controls, too.

I haven't played it yet, no, but it's on the list. I am concerned every time you use the Ivalera emote though, as I know you're up to no good haha!

 

[Griffith]

So kinky robot sex is off the table, eh? Hmmm.

These were some unsexy robots.

Well, if you ever wanna try some insane shit, go for that combo. I know you can do it, seeing as you're the guy who beat Malenia on level 1, which I still can't comprehend.

What I really want to do one day is get killer with Sekiro. To paraphrase Apollo Creed, "I won... but I didn't beat [it]!"

A...Alfred? Is that you? As Hank Schrader once said "All along it was you!"

Don't do it! You'll go mad and commit suicide after!

Does he? I think I've always killed him immediately, "For my queen!" lol

Only I'M allowed to massacre everyone I meet.

Heard a rumor it is being given to Bluepoint to remake, which I don't really take seriously. But after Last of Us, I can't tell anymore.

Nothing would surprise me, as long as it's not that illegitimate sequel rumor.

Woah, I didn't hear about this. Exciting!

Yeah, it's happening! Sounds like a good premise for a new location, etc.

I see. What about from a storytelling standpoint? Worth it? Should I just play 2?

The story in 1 is pretty straightforward, but bears knowing, 2 is where it's really at though. So, do with that info what you will.

Aaz and Wally will probably tell you you need to play every FPS before Half-Life 2 first though, "What about Spear of Destiny and Blake Stone!? These are ESSENTIAL by any standard but the definition of the word!"

I'm very tempted!

Anyway, back to Rondo of Pain Blood.

I'm gonna add that I couldn't resist the temptation and I started SotN...and holy shit what a difference! This game is light-years ahead of Rondo. Everything is just...better. Alucard is awesome!

Yeah, fuck Richter.

Yeah man, Alucard after Richter is like going from a semi-truck to a Corvette. Aaz and Wally are clearly severe CV purists, acting as if Richter is perfection and the controls have been watered down since or something. I love old school CV too but these games are rigid as hell. Additionally, Wally will drop any game at a moment's notice (look at Stray for the most recent example =), even 95% of the way through, so take his Rondo judgements with a grain of salt, "I can sort of see why you hate the controls that get you killed all the time, harrumph." He quit Bloodborne after Father Gascoigne because the framerate wasn't high enough and claimed he played it enough to "get it," like the whole thing everyone's been raving about for years. He's a heretic of the Healing Church!

All that being said... As of last night I'm now playing Rondo of Blood too and am at stage 3! With the intention of doing it and SotN back to back just as Wally recommended! Like Schierke once observed of Guts, we're all fools for him in the end. My Captain. =)

Btw, I already figured out an exploit in this edition to make it trivial, so let me know if you want the secret. Also, they fixed the voices in SotN... I don't like it! That's like fixing the voices in RE1, to coincidentally follow Aaz' joke. That badness is canon, they even reference the lines in later CV games!

 

[Aazealh]

Anyway, it's not a big deal anymore, really. I've gotten used to the controls by now and I'm enjoying the game

See? Not so shitty after all. Give it a few more days and you might even start realizing Hollow Knight's controls aren't all that.

I haven't played it yet, no, but it's on the list. I am concerned every time you use the Ivalera emote though, as I know you're up to no good haha!

I'm just saying, would make more sense to play it first, since it's the oldest one and originator of the genre. Then you can better appreciate how it informed those that came after.

And BTW, I'm only sticking with Stray because you said the ending was good, so it better deliver!

Aaz and Wally are CV clearly severe CV purists, acting as if Richter is perfection and the controls have just been watered down since or something.

Who's the guy collecting arcade sticks again? Tell me about perfecting controls please.

And it's not like I'm a huge Rondo fan at all either, I just recognize that it's a pretty damn good game and was a standout at the time. You already know which old school Castlevania game I'm all about, and it sure as hell doesn't control smoother than Richter!

 

[Griffith]

Who's the guy collecting arcade sticks?

My insanity was never in question.

Also, it genuinely depends on the game, like I would never play Mortal Kombat with a stick, it's been specifically designed for gamepads for a long time, but that's actually the opposite for a lot of arcade fighters.

And it's not like I'm a huge Rondo fan at all either

That's why it's funny we're all dying on this hill, like, three decades later.

I just recognize that it's a pretty damn good game and was a standout at the time. You already know which old school Castlevania games I'm all about, and sure as hell doesn't control smoother than Richter.

Yeah, it's great actually, just none of us us played it at the time. The handdrawn cinematics have obviously aged much better than SotN's dogshit 90s CGI too. I just continue to be amused that Rondo rose from the ashes of international obscurity. Dracula's war to exterminate mankind had raged for decades, but the final battle over Rondo of Blood would not be fought in the past. It would be fought here, in our present. Tonight.

Anybody get that reference? =)

 

[Rhombaad]

Yeah, it's great actually, just none of us us played it at the time. The handdrawn cinematics have obviously aged much better than SotN's dogshit 90s CGI too. I just continue to be amused that Rondo rose from the ashes of international obscurity. Dracula's war to exterminate mankind had raged for decades, but the final battle over Rondo of Blood would not be fought in the past. It would be fought here, in our present. Tonight.

Anybody get that reference? =)

You know I do.

 

[Aazealh]

That's why it's funny we're all dying on this hill, like, three decades later.

Yeah, it's great actually, just none of us us played it at the time. The handdrawn cinematics have obviously aged much better than SotN's dogshit 90s CGI too. I just continue to be amused that Rondo rose from the ashes of international obscurity. Dracula's war to exterminate mankind had raged for decades, but the final battle over Rondo of Blood would not be fought in the past. It would be fought here, in our present. Tonight.

Yeah for real lol. But I can't quite bring myself to tell Lawliet he should be playing Castlevania II: Simon's Quest, which was both a real innovator as far as game mechanics are concerned, introduced some of the most iconic Castlevania music, and is thematically and conceptually the closest to Symphony of the Night out of the traditional Castlevania titles, or as I'll be referring to them for the rest of this presentation, the 悪魔城ドラキュラ series.

Page 1 of 297

 

[Lawliet]

These were some unsexy robots.

True! But some people out there have weird fetishes (not me, I promise!)

What I really want to do one day is get killer with Sekiro. To paraphrase Apollo Creed, "I won... but I didn't beat [it]!"

I know the feeling! But I think you can easily get good with that. Again, you've accomplished much more difficult things!

Does he? I think I've always killed him immediately, "For my queen!" lol

Yeah, you find his body where you first met him. He commits suicide after killing the Queen.

Only I'M allowed to massacre everyone I meet.

You are Griffith, after all

The story in 1 is pretty straightforward, but bears knowing, 2 is where it's really at though. So, do with that info what you will.

Aaz and Wally will probably tell you you need to play every FPS before Half-Life 2 first though, "What about Spear of Destiny and Blake Stone!? These are ESSENTIAL by any standard but the definition of the word!"

Hahaha. I'm trying to experience all the good shit, not become a video-game historian!

Yeah man, Alucard after Richter is like going from a semi-truck to a Corvette. Aaz and Wally are clearly severe CV purists, acting as if Richter is perfection and the controls have been watered down since or something. I love old school CV too but these games are rigid as hell. Additionally, Wally will drop any game at a moment's notice (look at Stray for the most recent example =), even 95% of the way through, so take his Rondo judgements with a grain of salt, "I can sort of see why you hate the controls that get you killed all the time, harrumph." He quit Bloodborne after Father Gascoigne because the framerate wasn't high enough and claimed he played it enough to "get it," like the whole thing everyone's been raving about for years. He's a heretic of the Healing Church!

That's some disturbing stuff to read. We need you to do something about Walter's heresy, Executioner Alfred Griff!

All that being said... As of last night I'm now playing Rondo of Blood too and am at stage 3! With the intention of doing it and SotN back to back just as Wally recommended! Like Schierke once observed of Guts, we're all fools for him in the end. My Captain. =)

Yeah, the charisma is undeniable, as fitting a member of the God Hand.

Btw, I already figured out an exploit in this edition to make it trivial, so let me know if you want the secret.

Let me guess...turn the game off?

Do share!

Also, they fixed the voices in SotN... I don't like it! That's like fixing the voices in RE1, to coincidentally follow Aaz' joke. That badness is canon, they even reference the lines in later CV games!

Okay, this I have to hear. I'm gonna look up the original then.

See? Not so shitty after all. Give it a few more days and you might even start realizing Hollow Knight's controls aren't all that.

Yeaaaaah, that's not gonna happen. I really hope you're just trolling me here LOL

I'm just saying, would make more sense to play it first, since it's the oldest one and originator of the genre. Then you can better appreciate how it informed those that came after.

Fair enough.

And BTW, I'm only sticking with Stray because you said the ending was good, so it better deliver!

I am very flattered that you take my opinion seriously, but just to manage your expectations, read what Griff said above about it. It may not move you as it moved me, as I'm a sucker for that kind of emotion!

 

[Aazealh]

Yeaaaaah, that's not gonna happen. I really hope you're just trolling me here LOL

No, Hollow Knight's controls really aren't super great. I just didn't want to break your heart before, but it's not the game's biggest strength. It's still neat though and I enjoyed it.

 

[Lawliet]

No, Hollow Knight's controls really aren't super great. I just didn't want to break your heart before, but it's not the game's biggest strength. It's still neat though and I enjoyed it.

Haha, it's okay, my man. I've always admired your candor. Anyway, it's not like I made the game, so I wouldn't take criticisms on it to heart.

As for HK, I never thought about its controls while playing it to begin with, which is a good thing. It means they are neither bad nor special enough to bring up, which is fine by me.

 

[Griffith]

I know the feeling! But I think you can easily get good with that. Again, you've accomplished much more difficult things!

Yeah, but I was suited to those things, or they were flexible enough to allow me to do it a way that suited me. Sekiro demands, "you're going to git gud at defensive timing, precision blocking and ripostes or this is really going to suck."

Yeah, you find his body where you first met him. He commits suicide after killing the Queen.

Wow, that sounds vaguely familiar but I've beaten this game about a dozen times and maybe only seen it once.

Hahaha. I'm trying to experience all the good shit, not become a video-game historian!

Rondo definitely falls into that 'real' category though.

That's some disturbing stuff to read. We need you to do something about Walter's heresy, Executioner Alfred Griff!

Well, that shoe is on the other foot around here, so better I not lose my head with too much of my good-natured jestering.

Let me guess...turn the game off?

Do share!

Basically, yeah! If you use the "Quick Save" feature it confusingly exits you from the game immediately (it's basically a "resume state"), and when you reload you're at the start of the segment with your health restored to where it was at that point (the save is actually automatic to that point)! So, even if you get to the boss with barely any health but at least 1 rest you can die to reset your health and then "quick save" whenever things aren't going your way, as long as you don't let yourself die you have infinite attempts. This works through any and every segment of a level.

Okay, this I have to hear. I'm gonna look up the original then.

Careful what you wish for, some miserable secrets are best left to the ash pile of history.

 

[Lawliet]

Yeah, but I was suited to those things, or they were flexible enough to allow me to do it a way that suited me. Sekiro demands, "you're going to git gud at defensive timing, precision blocking and ripostes or this is really going to suck."

Well, you don't have to play defensively or get good at parrying to make it work. A combination of aggressive play, with prosthetics (especially the right ones against specific bosses), and tools can get you through the game. Have a look at this crazy bastard:

Wow, that sounds vaguely familiar but I've beaten this game about a dozen times and maybe only seen it once.

I just discovered some new things in Dark Souls during the current playthrough. Amazing how many times you go through these and still miss some details.

Rondo definitely falls into that 'real' category though.

Hahaha. Yeah, it fits alright. Those other games you mentioned next to Half-Life though? No idea; I haven't looked them up yet and I'm afraid to lol.

Well, that shoe is on the other foot around here, so better I not lose my head with too much of my good-natured jestering.

Tyranny! Tyranny, I say!

Basically, yeah! If you use the "Quick Save" feature it confusingly exits you from the game immediately (it's basically a "resume state"), and when you reload you're at the start of the segment with your health restored to where it was at that point (the save is actually automatic to that point)! So, even if you get to the boss with barely any health but at least 1 rest you can die to reset your health and then "quick save" whenever things aren't going your way, as long as you don't let yourself die you have infinite attempts. This works through any and every segment of a level.

That is fucking brilliant! And I'm totally using that. Especially against that bastard Death, boss of Stage 5.

Careful what you wish for, some miserable secrets are best left to the ash pile of history.

"A corpse... should be left well alone.
Oh, I know very well. How the secrets beckon so sweetly.
Only an honest death will cure you now.
Liberate you, from your wild curiosity."

 

[Dark Emperor]

I'm currently trying to go through the three Fromsoft "Souls" games that I haven't played, so I'm starting with Sekiro. I finally got my hands on a PS5, so now I can play the Demon's Souls rerelease. That just leaves Bloodbourne. I'm willing to wait for a year to see news of a Bloodborne release for PS5. If not, then I'm just gonna buy a PS4 off ebay or something and play it there.