What are you watching? (television thread)

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
That's Saul, Folks! -

Really liked the episode. One thing that really stood out to me was the Kim flashback scene when they are signing the papers, I was honestly waiting for a look on Saul's face of maybe sadness and regret as Kim walks out the door, but no, at this point he's completely Saul Goodman not a shred of Jimmy is in there, and Kim knows he's no longer the man she knew.

I think the closest we got was the look on his face before he had her sent in, but even that was a bit enigmatic. Otherwise, yeah, he was a complete prick.

For some reason during the episode i was expecting an accidental death of one of the characters I guess that's a bit cliché, like Marion slipping and breaking her neck.

Hey, it's not a bad thing to consider the unexpected to happen on this show.

But Gene is really unhinged at this point, he was about to hurt that guy with the dog's ashes and he had murderous intent with Marion, really interesting, I think he's having an identity crisis too, he's definitely not an evil person to me, I knew he wouldn't directly murder someone maybe indirectly but he'd never strangle someone to death for example.

Well, I guess it depends on your point of view at this juncture; was that moment of pause when he let Marion push the life alert the kindness of an ultimately good man, or just the weakness of truly a bad one?

The message of the last few episodes has been the opposite of a redemption story, more a story of the unredeemable. Like this guy potentially had some kind of greatness inside him, but when the chips were down always reverted to slippin' Jimmy or Saul Goodman. He was even doing the Saul hands at the phone, and basically treating Jeff and Marion like he was his old untouchable criminal-lawyer self.

This is all in response to the phone call though, so maybe this is his way of turning himself in, but going on a Saul spree first and seeing how long he can get away with it before he gets caught. I like how for all his slickness he was ultimately just an awful criminal here though; assaulting an old woman in her home! What an ignominious end.

Also did everyone notice how monotonous and basic Kim's life became, even how she gave basic answers to everything

It was worse than that, she was basically passively agreeable to everything, even if it was moronic. Like her boyfriend with his miracle whip, yups and Outback, both a simple, "good man" and completely beneath her, perfect for her purgatory where she just goes along with these Florida yokels (no offense to any Floridians =) and does her shitty sprinkler copy-writing job with completely unnecessary rigor.

Now after her confession nothing is really weighing her down anymore so I'm interested to see if we'll see her again or if her story is concluded. I have a suspicion she will meet with Saul again in person I think just talking on the phone isn't the end of it.

Oh yeah, I definitely think we need a post-Gene resolution here. They'll meet again.

Maybe she'll testify against him or vice versa, since now there IS going to be a corroborating party to her affidavit, so maybe they'll go to prison together for framing Howard and working with the cartel; happy ending! My only question is does the show end with Jimmy in prison for life or is there still an afterlife here? Do we see 70 year old Jimmy try to make good with Kim? :ganishka:

It would be full circle if she basically came to visit him like Chuck, since she, like Chuck before her, wants him to face the consequences. If he does that, and finally recognizes he's the problem, can he then have a life after? Or would he then just be a schnook like Henry Hill? He kind of already rejected that life with Gene, but maybe that's because he couldn't live with the lie, or without her, after Kim called him out.

BTW, the Jesse/Kim scene was a nice surprise since they're the most morally aligned by the end of their arcs, and it kind of fully establishes her existence as a contemporary in the Bad universe.

Doing the right thing was Kim's way of "breaking bad."

Well, it's my old joke title for this show, Breaking Good, but I was looking at the wrong character.

Kind of bummed that due to how much screen time they gave Gene fumbling around, we're left with just one episode to wrap absolutely everything up.

Strongly disagree; Gene is Saul ascended to final form and the coolest shit since Heisenberg; he's basically Saul on a Walt-like bender, completely off the chain, practically strangling old comedy icons! When he did the fucking Saul fingers over the phone I lost it. Muah, magnifico. This IS the absolutely everything wrapping up. Also, unlike most ensembles, they really only have two characters left that need any wrapping, it's already a wrap for everyone else at this point. :carcus:

I think what I'm still missing, now that we're absolutely in the home stretch, is what actually happened to Jimmy internally after he and Kim broke up. The heartlessness we ultimately see him embrace once he's splurged his Sandpiper money on his shitty McMansion is not where we last saw that character—when Kim says she and he aren't good for each other. So that when we get to that divorce papers scene, they've edited around what should have been the downward spiral of a broken man. Instead, we got the jump-cut version where it's just "Broken Man, enter stage right."

I can rationalize it myself, (without Kim, and without Chuck, there's nothing holding his bad instincts back), but it's not satisfying.

The rub to me is that, if anything, they showed too much work in six seasons and not enough solutions until now, so it seems disproportionate. We didn't get "the Saul show" until like season 5, or arguably 4 episodes from the finish! Then after 6+ years of slow burn character work, we get one scene to cover the break-up precipitating his fall and there's not even any aftermath of it until this episode. Fundamentally though, I think it's all fine, but it's incongruent with the pace and rigor of the previous seasons, perhaps for the better though. In my estimation the show has drastically improved the last two to three seasons, and these episodes have me more excited than anything this group has made since the last days of Bad. So I'm finding it very satisfying if a little off-kilter (but like I said, I don't mind it).

I recognize that if this were Berserk, it's where Griff-Aazealh would tell me to re-read the series, because all the components are probably there, scattered around. And I suppose the problem I have with that is that I don't intend to re-watch this series. I've really found it all pretty boring, a few highlights aside. Some great acting, a few fun characters (Lalo is memorable, to me).

Yeah, lord no, I could barely get through the "early going" (seasons 1-3? =) the first time, and I wouldn't even wanna watch BB again and that's like a roller coaster ride compared to this show. But that's part of the reason I'm loving this; they have nothing left to burn slowly. Continuing your analogy though, you're basically a Guts' Band truther when it comes to Gene, "I hate these women and children RUINING the revengeance!" :troll:

But right now I'm more interested in if it's just me that feels they fudged the math a bit on how Jimmy truly adds up to Saul.

Like I said, objectively it's fine, better even, just not consistent with the endless math that came before it. They basically did advanced calculous for 5 seasons only to ultimately show us that two plus two indeed equals four. I also think they've now changed the equation though, at least from how I previously perceived the show: it's not about Jimmy becoming Saul, it's the revelation that Jimmy was always Saul underneath, and he's just been getting worse, not set up for redemption or a return to being good ole Jimmy. The whole "he's really a sweet guy with a heart of gold underneath" narrative was the ruse, not Saul Goodman. This was actually a pretty good long con!
 
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Doing the right thing was Kim's way of "breaking bad."

Kind of bummed that due to how much screen time they gave Gene fumbling around, we're left with just one episode to wrap absolutely everything up.

I think what I'm still missing, now that we're absolutely in the home stretch, is what actually happened to Jimmy internally after he and Kim broke up. The heartlessness we ultimately see him embrace once he's splurged his Sandpiper money on his shitty McMansion is not where we last saw that character—when Kim says she and he aren't good for each other. So that when we get to that divorce papers scene, they've edited around what should have been the downward spiral of a broken man. Instead, we got the jump-cut version where it's just "Broken Man, enter stage right."

I can rationalize it myself, (without Kim, and without Chuck, there's nothing holding his bad instincts back), but it's not satisfying.

I recognize that if this were Berserk, it's where Griff-Aazealh would tell me to re-read the series, because all the components are probably there, scattered around. And I suppose the problem I have with that is that I don't intend to re-watch this series. I've really found it all pretty boring, a few highlights aside. Some great acting, a few fun characters (Lalo is memorable, to me). But right now I'm more interested in if it's just me that feels they fudged the math a bit on how Jimmy truly adds up to Saul.
BCS was always a bit boring, not gonna lie. Most people ran away when the law episodes got more complex as the first seasons progressed... I mean, I really like what we got so far (in the entire series), but these last two episodes have been bad to me, mostly because the tone went too dark too fast. I really liked Nippy for example, felt like a great conclusion even, but these two? I just don't want to rewatch them, cameos and all (these were ehhh. Even the Koyama cameo that laster for a couple ended up being the best one.) They have good parts, but overall, feel weak for a final season that started really well, unless they are saving the last tweeest for the end the show will probably only end in dark note and that's it.
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Better Call Saul! Finale: Saul Gone - It's Saul over! - So, if you hadn't noticed, I already precognitively wrote my analysis for this episode:

I worry he's going to end up getting himself caught, if that's not what he secretly wants deep down, and back in the ABQ being represented by his old prosecutor buddy that's taken over his territory, sadly hoping Kim will come see him now that he's facing the consequences (this show has been in large part about lawyering after all).
Also, seeing him indulge these compulsions now as Gene, without the make-good earnestness of Jimmy or the flash and sad clown aspect of Saul, is creepy and eye-opening. This guy is just a nasty criminal whatever circumstance or box you put him in! It's also a deconstruction of the show's deconstruction of the character because it turns out he's not paying penance as Saul out of hurt or guilt and is secretly a sweetheart underneath, it's the opposite: this is who he really is and the money and success only made him more himself. No need to call, he's ALWAYS been Saul!
I don't think Saul is ultimately going to blow everything up like Walter White, that's just not his style. Not literally anyway, though there may not be anything left of him by the end. The whole "happy ending" thing seems pretty far afield from where we're currently at and there's not a lot of time left. I still feel like the only way Jimmy can redeem himself at this point, short of getting caught to save this dude from a barbiturate/cancer drug cocktail overdose, is turn himself in and finally face the consequences.
I'm like the Aazealh of this show. :shrug:

Anyway, the Kim stuff was compelling, she's both gone completely straight and yet is clearly punishing herself. It was maybe most shocking to see a Bad/Saul character just do the right thing and confess, yet she might not even get tried... unless it all comes back around in a very consequential way for her and Jimmy now that he's likely to be in custody shortly.
Oh yeah, I definitely think we need a post-Gene resolution here. They'll meet again.

Maybe she'll testify against him or vice versa, since now there IS going to be a corroborating party to her affidavit, so maybe they'll go to prison together for framing Howard and working with the cartel; happy ending! My only question is does the show end with Jimmy in prison for life or is there still an afterlife here? Do we see 70 year old Jimmy try to make good with Kim? :ganishka:

It would be full circle if she basically came to visit him like Chuck, since she, like Chuck before her, wants him to face the consequences. If he does that, and finally recognizes he's the problem, can he then have a life after?

As usual, man are these guys on point, and if anything trying to do too much to not only wrap this series up with a nice bow, but the entire ABQuniverse. It can feel a little too precious or twee because of that at times, especially given the hard subject matter, but I can't really blame them for trying to finish everything perfectly even if I'd like a bit more edge to remain given where we were with Gene at the beginning of the episode. The opening with Mike was great, for the character, the actor and the episode, it really set a tone, theme, and served all of the above.

The same for the other great callbacks for everyone, including vintage Saul and Walt, hilariously with neither of them reflecting on their current self-made predicament when expressing regret! The moment with the murder stopwatch was great btw, and Cranston is so good, on point yet still a complete hypocritical asshole when he accurately sums up Saul, "So, you've always been this way." *walks away dismissively* He was the smartest guy in the room, except where he was concerned, once again!

And the of course, Chuck, the keeper of the Time Machine and the one that understands how it works: you can't fix the past, but you can change the future. It was sad how the scene embodied this, as one last time they spoke past each other and didn't quite connect, and they were so close to just being able to talk, bond and enrich each other's lives via their mutual interests and connection... but the trust wasn't there on either side.

Marie was the return I didn't know I needed. She was great! And really nice for her since she, like Hank once his time was up, sort of necessarily got short shrift on closure as BB ended. She basically could only be mad at Walt and then wrong about how brilliant he was despite being correct that he's a POS, now we really get to see her grief and pain manifest. She looked great too, these actors are like waiting in the gym to resume playing characters over a decade younger than them now.

Also, the little environmental character references were crazy, like the aforementioned watch with Walt, I can't think of greater callback in such a small package, and the Exit sign and lantern for Chuck. This is the kind of detail you see in a still-image medium like Berserk, where you can infuse an individual panel with such significance, but it's hard to pull off in motion and I can't recall it being done so clearly and effectively (like it's obvious this was their intent). One of the saddest scenes on the show was the intro flashback of Chuck and Jimmy as children, Chuck reading to Jimmy by the light of the same kind of lantern that kills him, of course contrasted with Chuck telling Jimmy he was never important to him.

Anyway, as for the plot, it was great to see Saul show off one last gambit and basically that he could still use his superpowers to control the situation and get out of this, but that also leads me to my one problem with the episode: It was both a little too cute and a little too convenient that Saul was still completely in control of his destiny and just willfully threw his life away to make good, including loudly declaring himself Jimmy McGill again. I'd have preferred that he paid his penance more organically, like pushing too hard, going to trial and ending up with the 86 years because he couldn't help himself, and because he deserved to be judged and have punishment IMPOSED on him, then he could find resolution and acceptance with his deserved fate after the fact. It might be a distinction without much of a difference, but it would have rang more true, or at least realistic, to me anyway. BUT, I do recognize the greater thematic meaning of showing he could get out of it again and choosing not to... but from a practical standpoint that's a lesson he could have learned without an extra 79 years to think about it! Maybe I still just feel bad for Jimmy even after Saul this (sorry =).

Otherwise, yeah, it all works and makes sense and I guess I'll just have to make peace with Jimmy choosing to do the right thing in the most costly way possible for not much upside besides thematically relevent self-improvement (maybe they'll eventually allow him conjugal visits =). I also expected a more explicit angle to help Kim in the equation, but I guess he was more shamed/inspired, and his going down hard for everything could help mitigate the need for her to pay, but I'm fine with not getting lost in the weeds on this.

The morning after, I'm feeling better about it as a whole piece and the final piece of a whole, not just Saul but the epilogue to Bad as well. Basically, him making the choice was more important than whether that's what someone like Jimmy would likely do, which is the point that makes it remarkable, and basically what they spent those first five seasons setting up and justifying no matter how many times he broke bad again, we always knew this was in him somewhere.

That's his big shocker ending, doing the right thing like Kim, despite the opportunity to get out of it all again. Part of my issue is it edging a little too closely to the Walter scenario, where Saul only loses and goes to jail because he WANTS to now. So even when he's punished he's getting what he wants on his terms. I'd be happier if that we're a bit more subverted and subconscious on his part and as much about his compulsions. Like how alcoholics don't drink themselves to death because that's their stated goal, just like criminals don't go to jail because they want to, even if they feel remorseful. Even if Jimmy knows this is ultimately just, he should be devastated to lose his freedom and essentially his life first. I'm sure this was all a discussion in the writer's room and it was decided his actively making the choice was paramount, as opposed to his redemptive act potentially just being a post hoc accident of circumstances.

These guys are so empathetic to their characters though, not just Saul but obviously Mike, Kim, Marie, et al. They even let us know that, no, Saul won't be getting raped in pound-me-in-the-ass federal prison because he's every criminal's best friend! Saul's well that ends well (ok, let's go out on that one =).
 
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It was a great finale. Grim, but fair, tense, but not exactly action packed, Last sequence, with Jimmy doing the two pistols sign to Kim, and fading away... that was great.
 
The Sandman.

Oh god where do I begin with this show... I haven't read the comics and I have no clue if this is a direct adaptation or they completely took liberties and changed everything from the source material. It was definitely promising at first, I saw a lot of potential in the world that was established, it's literally a world of dreams and the king of the dreaming, endless possibilities right there. But they went in a very boring direction with it most of it is episodic and inconsequential not to mention boring and uninspired. The main character never really has any character development either I get he's an endless but Dream just became tiring to listen to after a while, he just keeps blabbering about the same things over and over again. I didn't care for any of the characters at all, most are in it for just one episode and most are boring and dull. the only episode i enjoyed was the episode where Dream bestowed immorality to a human and met every 100 years to see how he changed and if he still wanted to live, a very interested concept and it was executed pretty well, it reminded me that the setting is ripe for a awesome experimental phycological deep dive into humanity and the dreaming, you see dustings of this but it never goes all the way, not even close. This had the potential to be a matrix level epic it could have been very profound but sadly we didn't see it's full potential. It was all over the place completely lacking focus. and later on for the multiple episode plotline they settled for the most basic story imaginable. Speaking of which I absolutely hated it the whole Rose Walker storyline, it was mind numbingly boring to me, and felt like one of those trash woke teen novel adaptations " you have the power to destroy the entire universe Rose Walker" just made me chuckle. Like come on you have this entire playground of the dream world and this is what you do with it, It's pathetic. And what was with the serial killers thing? It felt so out of place and stupid, and the big villain Face off at the end was extremely anticlimactic. Man these writers are terrible, and it was a waste of my time. I could go on but I'll end it here

Oh And the gender swaps and race changes and the inclusion of like 50 gay characters, even as someone who never read the comics you can tell it felt forced, but who honestly cares.
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Just finished Castlevania final season.

I think I've given less than 5 series 10/10 but I'm going to give it a 10. Loved it start to finish.
I found Season 1 entertaining, mainly because the expectations for videogame adaptations are so low, I was taken aback by actual competence. But it completely lost me in Season 2. The story was way too thin to justify eight episodes. They stretched the scenario to a breaking point. Too much talking, not enough of a balance with action (it's a show about vampires and hunters, get on with it), so it ended up feeling like a soap opera to me.
 
I went in the Castlevania show expecting very little honestly, interested mainly due to the buzz in Berserk communities and wanting to make my own opinion about it. One odd thing about S1 is that it's basically an extended pilot rather than a whole season. S2 ended in the least expected way I could imagine (and I felt quite disappointed by it) but it was in S3 that it all blossomed into a good show in my opinion. S3 still is the peak of the series as I found S4 somewhat more sloppy, but its conclusion was wholly satisfying for me, which is a veeery rare for me to say.

One thing I'd say is that the music was consistently uninteresting and one of the few things that didn't improve between seasons. The animation also gets to its peak at S3, S4 has some excellent highlights but is not as consistent. I would personally recommend the Japanese dub (having tried English and Italian ones as well) as I think it was very suitable and enjoyable. I loved how some side characters got to have their own big spotlights and developments in S3-4, the kind of writing I really love to witness.
 
Not a TV show session per se, but I have been watching many clips from Breaking Bad. This really might be the best TV show I've ever seen. I've heard of others that can be compared to it, such as the Sopranos and the Wire, but I'm currently not interested in checking them out (TV shows are the hardest medium for me to get into. Breaking Bad itself took my sister years of nagging until she got me to watch it).

My takeaway from watching said clips is the following:

1. Again, what a damn great show that was.
2. Skylar is a bitch.
3. This show has the highest bald people count I've ever seen.
4. Why, oh why would you put poetry on your toilet seat? Poor Walt Whitman...
5. BB fans are some of the most cringe-worthy people on the planet.

To elaborate on point #4, I mean that the fans can be over-zealous in finding symbolisms and hidden meanings everywhere. I mean everywhere. I don't doubt that Bad has some really deep scenes, and I'm not saying a hidden meaning has to be intentional to be validly pointed out, but the fans sometimes point to symbolisms that are simply not there. Here are some examples which I will use to make fun of them:

1. The Confrontation


The symbolism: "Walter's face is half hidden by shadow, and half lit up by sunlight, showing his duality".

Nah, he's just in a goddamn garage. I mean, you can say the same about Hank. What? Does Hank have a double life too, then?

2. The Ground Cracks Beneath Walt's Head


The symbolism: "The ground cracks when Walter collapses, symbolizing the destruction of his world, very much like the Ozymandias from Shelly's poem".

Eh? I dunno, I think desert ground is just cracked already since, well, it's a goddamn desert. Maybe this was valid and intentional though, as someone in the comments claimed good old Vince talked about it. Who knows? Either way, it totally flew over my head.

And now, my favorite, which had me cracking up,

3. The Passing Clouds


The symbolism: "Gus is in full sunlight while he speaks, symbolizing his total control of the situation. But when Walt talks, clouds pass over them and cast them in shadow, showing him breaking Gus' control. But they are back in sunlight when Gus talks. Brilliant cinematography."

Yeah, apparently Vince put God in the production team. The man can control the clouds too in his filming. I just... :ganishka:

EDIT: To add to the above, I'm fully aware of the possibility of sarcasm in some symbolism comments. But that only reinforces my point that the fans can be too much at times when it comes to "detecting" these things!

---

Anyway, I love Breaking Bad, and watching those clips reminded me why. Could never get into Better Call Saul though, I stopped midway past the first episode. Maybe it will take another number of years of someone nagging me before I watch it haha.
 
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Not a TV show session per se, but I have been watching many clips from Breaking Bad. This really might be the best TV show I've ever seen. I've heard of others that can be compared to it, such as the Sopranos and the Wire, but I'm currently not interested in checking them out (TV shows are the hardest medium for me to get into. Breaking Bad itself took my sister years of nagging until she got me to watch it).

My takeaway from watching said clips is the following:

1. Again, what a damn great show that was.
2. Skylar is a bitch.
3. This show has the highest bald people count I've ever seen.
4. BB fans are some of the cringiest people on the planet.
I'm wrapping up my Breaking Bad rewatch tomorrow so I can finally start Better Call Soul. It is indeed one of the best shows, but in my opinion Sopranos stands miles above it (this marks day 1 of nagging to get you to see it). I've also seen S1 of The Wire last week and it's already a serious contender for a nr.1 spot.

Also, why do so many people hate Skylar?
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
2. Skylar is a bitch.
4. BB fans are some of the cringiest people in the planet.

:shrug:

I don't know, in MY experience, she was pretty forgiving to her husband that became a lying, murderous criminal. :ganishka: My wife's mad at me because I don't want to make more than two pitstops driving her to work in the mornings.

To elaborate on point #4, I mean that the fans can be over-zealous in finding symbolisms and hidden meanings everywhere. I mean everywhere. I don't doubt that Bad has some really deep scenes, and I'm not saying a hidden meaning has to be intentional to be validly pointed out, but the fans sometimes just point to points of "brilliance" that are simply not there.

Anyway, I think all your examples are valid to a degree (though it's not a coincidence Walt and Hank are lit that way, I wouldn't read too much into it beyond the surface level light/dark halves thing), and people always go overboard on this stuff, like getting the cloud moving overhead was just good luck but of course they used it, and sometimes the lighting is fucked up because of shit like that too (like in Ozymandias the time of day in the desert clearly isn't consistent even though it's the best episode ever). But I would counter that the BB/BCS team are some of the most "cringiest," methodically intentioned creators out there, so looking for this shit is actually a valid endeavor. Probably the most prominent examples are from the episode titles of season 2 of each series, in BB containing the hidden message "737 down over ABQ", and in BCS season 2 the first letter from the title of each episode intentionally forming an anagram that spelled out "Fring's Back," which fans not only figured out and decoded, but in real time before the season had even finished! There's a lot of little examples with their use of lighting, such as referencing a lighting setup in the last episode of Saul from the first, not to mention they did the whole final arc in black and white with splashes of color. If the fans are tryhards so are the guys putting it out. :ganishka:

Also, why do so many people hate Skylar?

To put it nicely, it's a pretty unfair reaction to her not being more enthusiastic about finding out her husband is... evil! Part of it is most of this is all through Walt's perspective so her role is pretty thankless in that regard, which poor Vince Gilligan is still apologizing for to this day, but may be why Kim Wexler is so we'll formed (and some of the same fans were suspicious of her until the end and I'm sure still blame her for Saul's problems =). Anyway, there's a litmus test scene that was interpreted almost completely differently by these two halves of the fanbase, one where Walt is literally going full Heisenberg on her and finally putting her in her place, and in the other he's figuratively delivering her a lifeline and mea culpa (because she was right all along yet basically still stuck by him to the end). To bring it full circle, it's also a testament to how great and multi-faceted the writing is on these shows.
 
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I'm wrapping up my Breaking Bad rewatch tomorrow so I can finally start Better Call Soul. It is indeed one of the best shows, but in my opinion Sopranos stands miles above it (this marks day 1 of nagging to get you to see it). I've also seen S1 of The Wire last week and it's already a serious contender for a nr.1 spot.

Also, why do so many people hate Skylar?
Haha. A friend of mine has been nagging me to watch the Boys for over a year. I'm being attacked from all directions! That's high praise for the other two shows, if they're even better than BB then...wow.

As for Skylar, she has valid reasons to be the way she is...but that doesn't mean I gotta like her though. Also, she fucked Ted.

:shrug:

I don't know, in MY experience, she was pretty forgiving to her husband that became a lying, murderous criminal. :ganishka: My wife's mad at me because I don't want to make more than two pitstops driving her to work in the mornings.

See above. Yeah, I'm not saying Walt is a good husband (or person) by any means. He's awful too, and in a way the two deserve each other. But at least I don't feel like bleaching my eyes when he's on screen. Oh well. I remember people hating on Lori from TWD and I was wondering why such extreme hatred. Can't control your feelings to certain things I guess?

Anyway, I think all your examples are valid to a degree (though it's not a coincidence Walt and Hank are lit that way, I wouldn't read too much into it beyond the surface level light/dark halves thing), and people always go overboard on this stuff, like getting the cloud moving overhead was just good luck but of course they used it, and sometimes the lighting is fucked up because of shit like that too (like in Ozymandias the time of day in the desert clearly isn't consistent even though it's the best episode ever). But I would counter that the BB/BCS team are some of the most "cringiest," methodically intentioned creators out there, so looking for this shit is actually a valid endeavor. Probably the most prominent examples are from the episode titles of season 2 of each series, in BB containing the hidden message "737 down over ABQ", and in BCS season 2 the first letter from the title of each episode intentionally forming an anagram that spelled out "Fring's Back," which fans not only figured out and decoded, but in real time before the season had even finished! There's a lot of little examples with their use of lighting, such as referencing a lighting setup in the last episode of Saul from the first, not to mention they did the whole final arc in black and white with splashes of color. If the fans are tryhards so are the guys putting it out. :ganishka:

For sure. As I said, the show clearly has hidden meanings and great symbolism, as any great work of art is expected to have. But it is funny how far they go in their search for hidden gems. Too far, if you ask me.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
 
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Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Haha. A friend of mine has been nagging me to watch the Boys for over a year. I'm being attacked from all directions! That's high praise for the other two shows, if they're even better than BB then...wow.

Yeah, I hear the same and all these shows are greater than the next, blah blah, but I don't have the time to invest! All I would recommend is The Sopranos, it's probably still the best written show even if the early seasons have aged a bit (season 1 is still like a novel on the screen though). I can't even recommend BCS because even though it's done great it's so slow I can't say it's a great watch all the way through.

As for Skylar, she has valid reasons to be the way she is...but that doesn't mean I gotta like her though. Also, she fucked Ted.

See above. Yeah, I'm not saying Walt is a good husband (or person) by any means. He's awful too, and in a way the two deserve each other. But at least I don't feel like bleaching my eyes when he's on screen. Oh well. I remember people hating on Lori from TWD and I was wondering why such extreme hatred. Can't control your feelings to certain things I guess?

It's true that narratively she was basically put into position to be the killjoy that's stopping all the fun we're having watching Walt go crazy. But then they basically did the opposite in BCS and some fanboys still complained!

For sure. As I said, the show clearly has hidden meanings and great symbolism, as any great work of art is expected to have. But it is funny how far they go in their search for hidden gems. Too far, if you ask me.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Except when it's the same cigar from episode S02E11! Naaaaaaaaarf!!

Btw, there's actually a cigar, and even a desk, like this in the last episodes of Saul too. :ganishka:
 
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Yeah, I hear the same and all these shows are greater than the next, blah blah, but I don't have the time to invest!
Fully agreed. The Boys is being recommended to my by the same people that love Casa del Papel, Peaky Blinders, Stranger Things and Cobra Kai so much. I'm not falling for that again (should have learned my lesson after Prison Break actually, that would've saved some time). People that say that movies lost their quality and it's all about tv shows now are wrong. They're both garbage for the most part (excluding those rare gems) and I'd rather be napping.

As for the "truly" great ones:
Game of thrones: fell short (starting in s5 not s8), but that's no news.
Oz: at times entertaining but too ridiculous.
Six feet under: I'm not hating, but I'm also not loving. This may actually be the best show after Sopranos, BB and The Wire (probably).

Edit: forgot about Mad Men, but I don't remember that much about it other than that it loved the smell of it's own farts

After watching The Wire and BCS I should give Chernobyl and Deadwood a chance, but I probably won't.
 
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Fully agreed. The Boys is being recommended to my by the same people that love Casa del Papel, Peaky Blinders, Stranger Things and Cobra Kai so much. I'm not falling for that again (should have learned my lesson after Prison Break actually, that would've saved some time). People that say that movies lost their quality and it's all about tv shows now are wrong. They're both garbage for the most part (excluding those rare gems) and I'd rather be napping.

As for the "truly" great ones:
Game of thrones: fell short (starting in s5 not s8), but that's no news.
Oz: at times entertaining but too ridiculous.
Six feet under: I'm not hating, but I'm also not loving. This may actually be the best show after Sopranos, BB and The Wire (probably).

After watching The Wire and BCS I should give Chernobyl and Deadwood a chance, but I probably won't.

Ouch! Prison Break was awesome!

Yeah, you named three shows I dropped: Le Casa de Papel, Peaky Blinders, and Stranger Things. The first two were boring to me, the third is a cow that keeps on being milked (doesn't help that I didn't exist in the 80's too, so all the references to that period fly over my head). I enjoyed the first season, but that's about it.

And yeah, you're right about both mediums being garbage for the most part, but that applies to everything, really. Excellence is difficult to achieve, and so most people don't achieve it. It's the natural way of things.

Game of Thrones was one of the two biggest drops I have ever seen (the other one being a game, the Last of Us Part II). Sometimes I think GoT S8 and LoU II should have a turd-off, to determine which one is worse haha.
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
If you think the clips are good, you should see the show.

That was my initial reading but I'm assuming from his subsequent statements he actually watched it and is just re-experiencing it with clips (this basically describes my relationship with Breaking Bad outside of Saul these days)? I hope! :magni:

What's funny is I overheard two of my young employees talking about BB and BCS and one said he only watched season 1 of bad because he didn't like it that much, and like Genr exclaiming, "GET A LAWYER!" I immediately told him to watch season 2. =)
 
If you think the clips are good, you should see the show.
That was my initial reading but I'm assuming from his subsequent statements he actually watched it and is just re-experiencing it with clips (this basically describes my relationship with Breaking Bad outside of Saul these days)? I hope! :magni:

Guys, I watched the entire thing haha.

Since I'm talking about this, I will mention a perk I enjoyed when watching the show: I never had to wait for new seasons. I mean, sure, so does anyone watching it on a streaming service today. But I watched BB during its runtime.

After years of nagging from my aforementioned sis, I picked up Breaking Bad during the last two weeks of its run, while everyone else was anticipating the finale. I binged the hell out of it and reached the final episode on the day of its release. Man, what an experience that was.

And now I'm re-experiencing it all in clips!

Gotta say though, watching 5 seasons in 2 weeks was probably too rapid for my own good. No time to savor the meal and all that.

Oh! And I can't believe I forgot to mention this, but we had a Mr (Professor) Walter White who taught chemistry in our uni. He introduced himself to new students with the disclaimer that he doesn't cook meth.
 
I watch breaking bad in the background every so often, it's very rewatchable, it's also fun to watch having watched Better call Saul, for example when Saul is dropping off money for Andrea and he's talking with Jesse in the car you can see a bit of Jimmy come out in Saul, and various other scenes too, the intention at the time was probably trying to show Saul being a decent human being at heart, but still it's pretty interesting.. Something I noticed recently is that it's currently really popular in the meme community, and I have to say some of it is pretty funny
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Something I noticed recently is that it's currently really popular in the meme community, and I have to say some of it is pretty funny
Yeah man I hate to break it to you but I'm pretty sure that whole movement is for clowning on the series and people who like it.
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
They seems to be pretty popular in the BB and BCS communities though. You're taking it too personally, Waltuuuuh. =)
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
They seems to be pretty popular in the BB and BCS communities though. You're taking it too personally, Waltuuuuh. =)
:shrug:That's how it felt to me. To be clear, I'm talking about when people dump an image reply of just the standard Jimmy picture in a Twitter reply. No joke, just the image. Same with Mike. I saw a lot of that throughout Better Call Saul's last season on Twitter.
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
That definitely sounds like Twitter, but I'd believe anything on there is ill-intentioned, or misguided at best. Like are these replies in the context of talking about the show at least, or can they be in any context and the joke is the show takes itself too seriously or isn't that good? I'm... What's less than fascinated? ... Curious! That's it.

The only things I see on Twitter now are people making much ado about nothing and Berserk spoilers, and even those fans are basically just doing performative meme reactions. I think that's just the language of Twitter.
 
I wanna ask you fellas about a specific episode of Breaking Bad: that fly episode. What did you think of it? At first I thought it was dumb and pointless filler. But now I'm not sure what to make of it.

There are even people who like it a lot. One of them made a video claiming it is BB's best episode:


Er...Best is going overboard, even if the episode is a misunderstood gem.

Curious what you guys have to say.
 
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